Hi , happy new year On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 12:01 PM Jane Lucas via DEVON <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hello Devon > I’m just checking that my post will be delivered. I’ve sent mail to the Yorkshire list which is not delivered. So just checking that some of my other lists work. > > It’s very quiet on the list.. hope everyone had a good christmas and new year. > > Jane > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thanks Karen.. probably just the Yorkshire list .. hmm, I’ve tried contacting the administrator with no luck.. bit weird.. keep trying! Jane > On 9 Jan 2019, at 12:53, Caren Wilcox <carenwilco@starpower.net> wrote: > > received > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jane Lucas via DEVON [mailto:devon@rootsweb.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:02 AM > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Cc: Jane Lucas > Subject: [DEV] Undelivered Mail > > Hello Devon > I’m just checking that my post will be delivered. I’ve sent mail to the Yorkshire list which is not delivered. So just checking that some of my other lists work. > > It’s very quiet on the list.. hope everyone had a good christmas and new year. > > Jane > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

received -----Original Message----- From: Jane Lucas via DEVON [mailto:devon@rootsweb.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:02 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Cc: Jane Lucas Subject: [DEV] Undelivered Mail Hello Devon I’m just checking that my post will be delivered. I’ve sent mail to the Yorkshire list which is not delivered. So just checking that some of my other lists work. It’s very quiet on the list.. hope everyone had a good christmas and new year. Jane _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello Devon I’m just checking that my post will be delivered. I’ve sent mail to the Yorkshire list which is not delivered. So just checking that some of my other lists work. It’s very quiet on the list.. hope everyone had a good christmas and new year. Jane

And I believe he's commemorated on the civil war memorial in Freedom Fields Park (so called after the defeat of the French in 1403) in Plymouth. Jane Gould (formerly of Plymouth, but not related!) ----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Sent: 07 January 2019 02:52 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Re: William GOULD 1615 And this chap mentioned in Cromwell's officers as well [copy/paste] Gould, William William Gould (1615-44) Eldest son of William Gould (died 1635) and his wife Alice, daughter of Robert Taylor of Pinhoe, Devon. He married Anne (died 1642), daughter of John Browne of Frampton, Dorset, in 1637/8. Gould originally was captain of a company in Sir John Bampfylde's regiment of foot, which was transferred to Captain Robert Bennet. On 26 Apr. 1643 Gould's troop was present at the battle of Sourton Down, where it played a leading part in the victory. In May he succeeded George Chudleigh as head of the Devon horse following the latter's resignation. Thereafter records consistently call him colonel. He led the Devon horse as it retreated through Somerset, where it joined Waller's army. On 21 Sept. 1643 Gould brought 500 or 600 men to Plymouth on 21 Sept. 1643, 150 of whom were immediately mounted. Peachey and Turton consider that they were evidently the remains of the West Country horse which had been at Roundway Down, 13 July. The foot were described as poor little boys. Gould was appointed governor of Plymouth in late Jan. 1644, but died on 27 Mar., although there is a discrepancy in the date recorded for his burial of 9 July. Stephen Midhope, delivering his funeral sermon, praised the 'the person and spirit of Colonell Gould to stand for the publique cause of religion, lawes and liberties'. Both Midhope and the author of a newsletter of events in Plymouth praised his puritan activism. The former described him as 'impartially active in punishing malignants against the case of Christ, therein another Moses', whilst the latter recorded that, 'Colonel Gould hath much purged the Garrison, from swearers, drunkards and abominable livers, causing the town and garrison to be very carefull in observing the Lords day, daies of humiliation, and to be frequently present at the ordinances of the Lord of Hosts' (Continuation, 9). References: Vis. Devon, 421-2; Peachey and Turton, Fall of the West, 4.440-2, 3.360; Worth, History of Plymouth, 110-1; Cotton, Barnstaple, 155. Armies: Devon -------------------------------------------------- From: <cmgibbins9@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 10:32 PM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: HALSE, Robert KYDLER, Peter PAYNE, 1640's > Dear Chris, > > Sorry to be so late in coming to your email. > > I have this detail from: > > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/cromwell-army-officers/sur > names- > h > > Thomas Halsey > An officer in the West Country. The earliest references to Captain > Thomas Halsey's troop are from Feb. 1643. Peachey and Turton consider > that the troop probably served in Exeter at the beginning of the war, > and then was part of the retreat through Somerset to Lansdown and > Roundway, and on to London, returning to Plymouth in Sept. Certainly > thereafter Halsey served in Plymouth from then to 1645-6. He was a > captain in the Plymouth garrison at the time of Prince Maurice's > siege, Sept.-Dec. 1643. By 26 Jan. 1644 he had been promoted major of > horse. On 24 Jan. and 15 Mar. 1644 he led sorties out of the town > against royalist positions. He was still in the garrison in 1645-6. > References: Peachey and Turton, Fall of the West, 4.443-4; Worth, > History of Plymouth, 110, 114-5, 134; Continuation. Armies: Devon. > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

And this chap mentioned in Cromwell's officers as well [copy/paste] Gould, William William Gould (1615-44) Eldest son of William Gould (died 1635) and his wife Alice, daughter of Robert Taylor of Pinhoe, Devon. He married Anne (died 1642), daughter of John Browne of Frampton, Dorset, in 1637/8. Gould originally was captain of a company in Sir John Bampfylde's regiment of foot, which was transferred to Captain Robert Bennet. On 26 Apr. 1643 Gould's troop was present at the battle of Sourton Down, where it played a leading part in the victory. In May he succeeded George Chudleigh as head of the Devon horse following the latter's resignation. Thereafter records consistently call him colonel. He led the Devon horse as it retreated through Somerset, where it joined Waller's army. On 21 Sept. 1643 Gould brought 500 or 600 men to Plymouth on 21 Sept. 1643, 150 of whom were immediately mounted. Peachey and Turton consider that they were evidently the remains of the West Country horse which had been at Roundway Down, 13 July. The foot were described as poor little boys. Gould was appointed governor of Plymouth in late Jan. 1644, but died on 27 Mar., although there is a discrepancy in the date recorded for his burial of 9 July. Stephen Midhope, delivering his funeral sermon, praised the 'the person and spirit of Colonell Gould to stand for the publique cause of religion, lawes and liberties'. Both Midhope and the author of a newsletter of events in Plymouth praised his puritan activism. The former described him as 'impartially active in punishing malignants against the case of Christ, therein another Moses', whilst the latter recorded that, 'Colonel Gould hath much purged the Garrison, from swearers, drunkards and abominable livers, causing the town and garrison to be very carefull in observing the Lords day, daies of humiliation, and to be frequently present at the ordinances of the Lord of Hosts' (Continuation, 9). References: Vis. Devon, 421-2; Peachey and Turton, Fall of the West, 4.440-2, 3.360; Worth, History of Plymouth, 110-1; Cotton, Barnstaple, 155. Armies: Devon -------------------------------------------------- From: <cmgibbins9@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 10:32 PM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: HALSE, Robert KYDLER, Peter PAYNE, 1640's > Dear Chris, > > Sorry to be so late in coming to your email. > > I have this detail from: > > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/cromwell-army-officers/surnames- > h > > Thomas Halsey > An officer in the West Country. The earliest references to Captain Thomas > Halsey's troop are from Feb. 1643. Peachey and Turton consider that the > troop probably served in Exeter at the beginning of the war, and then was > part of the retreat through Somerset to Lansdown and Roundway, and on to > London, returning to Plymouth in Sept. Certainly thereafter Halsey served > in > Plymouth from then to 1645-6. He was a captain in the Plymouth garrison at > the time of Prince Maurice's siege, Sept.-Dec. 1643. By 26 Jan. 1644 he > had > been promoted major of horse. On 24 Jan. and 15 Mar. 1644 he led sorties > out > of the town against royalist positions. He was still in the garrison in > 1645-6. > References: Peachey and Turton, Fall of the West, 4.443-4; Worth, History > of > Plymouth, 110, 114-5, 134; Continuation. Armies: Devon. >

Dear Chris, Sorry to be so late in coming to your email. I have this detail from: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/cromwell-army-officers/surnames- h Thomas Halsey An officer in the West Country. The earliest references to Captain Thomas Halsey’s troop are from Feb. 1643. Peachey and Turton consider that the troop probably served in Exeter at the beginning of the war, and then was part of the retreat through Somerset to Lansdown and Roundway, and on to London, returning to Plymouth in Sept. Certainly thereafter Halsey served in Plymouth from then to 1645-6. He was a captain in the Plymouth garrison at the time of Prince Maurice’s siege, Sept.-Dec. 1643. By 26 Jan. 1644 he had been promoted major of horse. On 24 Jan. and 15 Mar. 1644 he led sorties out of the town against royalist positions. He was still in the garrison in 1645-6. References: Peachey and Turton, Fall of the West, 4.443-4; Worth, History of Plymouth, 110, 114-5, 134; Continuation. Armies: Devon. Best wishes, Chris. https://www.facebook.com/SJDPA/ http://feniton.blogspot.co.uk/ http://fenitonchurch.blogspot.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: Chris Whitehead <chris@coalole.eclipse.co.uk> Sent: 20 December 2018 14:21 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] HALSE, Robert KYDLER, Peter PAYNE, 1640's Does anyone have any information on any of the above. They are mentioned on a requisition document for May 1643 during the Civil War. " XI die Maii 1643 The goods of Mr Thomas Carew of Studleigh w[hic]h were brought ?? by Captayne Halse his Troopers were these viz two hundred twenty & five Sheepe, Seaven & thirty Lambes, thirteen Oxen and Steers Sixe kyne Five heiffers of Fouer yeeres old Fouer yearelings deliverd unto ?? Robert Kydler and Peter Payne" More animals are listed on the other side of the paper; the last entry is £3 worth of "Stone Cole"; in all £350 worth. Studleigh (now Stoodleigh) is a village about 5 miles north of Tiverton. Were the soldiers Royalists or Parliamentarians? Thomas Carew was a Royalist, but I don't imagine this would have influenced Captain Halse. So if one of your ancestors came to Stoodleigh & took half our farming stock I'd like to hear from you! :-) Chris

Hi Sue , and a lot of them marrying Glovers …….!!! have you ever got to the earliest Nancekivells ?? The earliest paper reference to a Glover in Parkham is some land thing dated 1524 . -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/1/19, Sue via DEVON <devon@rootsweb.com> wrote: Subject: [DEV] Re: Surnames To: devon@rootsweb.com Cc: "Sue" <sstoneman@btinternet.com> Date: Saturday, 5 January, 2019, 12:01 I have some Nanskivells from Parkham in Devon all in the 1700’s Sent from my iPad > On 5 Jan 2019, at 11:16, margmansfield <margmansfield@iinet.net.au> wrote: > > Hi All, > > This is where DNA becomes handy. The incredible Devonish/Cornish family of Nankivell/Nankivel/Nankevell/Nan Kivells/Nanskeviills/Nanskevell/Nancekievill/Nanscuvel/......... are looking like they are all related along with the Tippets and a few others who were adopted out. > > Waiting to find out which Nankivell line links to my Great-grandmother Emma Nankivell b. 1850 New Zealand using DNA from a descendant of her elder brother John Nankivell b 1831 Mary Tavy, Devon. > > We have decided we are all related but still need to know which Nankivell family. > > Marg. > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I am trying to contact Paul Stephens who I assisted in finding information about his Kellow/Kellar/Callard ancestors several years ago. If anyone has information about him please let me know. Wayne Shepheard

I have some Nanskivells from Parkham in Devon all in the 1700’s Sent from my iPad > On 5 Jan 2019, at 11:16, margmansfield <margmansfield@iinet.net.au> wrote: > > Hi All, > > This is where DNA becomes handy. The incredible Devonish/Cornish family of Nankivell/Nankivel/Nankevell/Nan Kivells/Nanskeviills/Nanskevell/Nancekievill/Nanscuvel/......... are looking like they are all related along with the Tippets and a few others who were adopted out. > > Waiting to find out which Nankivell line links to my Great-grandmother Emma Nankivell b. 1850 New Zealand using DNA from a descendant of her elder brother John Nankivell b 1831 Mary Tavy, Devon. > > We have decided we are all related but still need to know which Nankivell family. > > Marg. > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Good morning, Marg, Have you looked at the Devon FHS's DNA page? http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/devon-dna.htm There's also a message board: http://mb.boardhost.com/devondna/ It's available to all, you don't have to be a Devon FHS member to access it. Happy New Year to all and good luck with your Devon research. Maureen Devon FHS 4019 -----Original Message----- From: margmansfield <margmansfield@iinet.net.au> Sent: 05 January 2019 11:17 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Re: Surnames Hi All, This is where DNA becomes handy. The incredible Devonish/Cornish family of Nankivell/Nankivel/Nankevell/Nan Kivells/Nanskeviills/Nanskevell/Nancekievill/Nanscuvel/......... are looking like they are all related along with the Tippets and a few others who were adopted out. Waiting to find out which Nankivell line links to my Great-grandmother Emma Nankivell b. 1850 New Zealand using DNA from a descendant of her elder brother John Nankivell b 1831 Mary Tavy, Devon. We have decided we are all related but still need to know which Nankivell family. Marg.

Hi All, This is where DNA becomes handy. The incredible Devonish/Cornish family of Nankivell/Nankivel/Nankevell/Nan Kivells/Nanskeviills/Nanskevell/Nancekievill/Nanscuvel/......... are looking like they are all related along with the Tippets and a few others who were adopted out. Waiting to find out which Nankivell line links to my Great-grandmother Emma Nankivell b. 1850 New Zealand using DNA from a descendant of her elder brother John Nankivell b 1831 Mary Tavy, Devon. We have decided we are all related but still need to know which Nankivell family. Marg.

That certainly seems to equate to Stuer! John On 4/01/2019 3:20 am, est via DEVON wrote: > Let us not forget the good old Devon name of STEWER when looking at variations.S. Treseder > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 10:04, devon-request@rootsweb.com<devon-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: Send DEVON mailing list submissions to devon@rootsweb.com > > To subscribe via email send a message with subject subscribe and body > subscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com > > To unsubscribe via email send a message with subject unsubscribe and > body unsubscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at devon-owner@rootsweb.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of DEVON digest..." > > Please ensure that you change the subject line to the message subject when replying, and PLEASE DELETE ALL THE OTHER DIGEST MESSAGES EXCEPT THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TO. Please do not leave it as a DIGEST heading. > Thank you > > Today's Topics: > >   1. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Paul Benyon) >   2. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Joy Langdon) >   3. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Chris Burgoyne) >   4. Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature >       (Martin Beavis) >   5. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Joy Langdon) >   6. History of Wetherspoons pubs in Devon. (Mike Mallett) >   7. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Our Mail) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:49:38 +0000 > From: Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> > Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > To: <devon@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <orvo2etjmqae236uljehl1kebj2dldet6r@4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > John > > I think you also have to remember that rectors/vicars often came from > other parts of the country and would use forms of spelling with which > they were familiar, so, this combined with an accent with which they > weren't familiar can create quite wide variations in spelling.....this > can sometimes be observed in the PRs quite clearly over the years > following the introduction of new vicars, especially when not prepared > to continue using local variations. > > Paul Benyon (N Wales)/Beynon (S Wales)/Bennion (Lancs/Cheshire) &c a > couple of the various spellings of my surname even today, but > especially when the name has been taken verbally/orally, when you can > count on getting a few Bunyans, usually to satisfy someone's sense of > humour -;) but, nevertheless, I think it probably demonstrates the > familiarity theme. > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 19:22:02 +1100, you wrote: > >> Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >> Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >> possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >> confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >> definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >> the children. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> On 2/01/2019 5:25 pm, Nancy Frey wrote: >>> Hi John, >>> >>> I don't have any STEAR but I do have STEER and found them spelled STEAR on >>> occasion.  Have you checked this spelling variation? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Nancy Frey >>> OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd >>>> send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. >>>> >>>> One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 >>>> March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary >>>> married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771.  That Richard was also the son >>>> of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton >>>> Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the >>>> Stear line.\com and our loyal RootsWeb community >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 12:30:41 +0000 (GMT) > From: Joy Langdon <joy.langdon@btinternet.com> > Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: >     <18274204.15009.1546432241648.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). > > Joy > > ----Original message---- > >From : ourmail@chez-williams.com > Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) > To : devon@rootsweb.com > Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > > Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and > Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was > brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and > possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be > confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I > would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are > definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various > spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all > the children. > > Cheers, > John > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:47:32 +0000 > From: Chris Burgoyne <cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk> > Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <b73e2c12-2d83-6421-005e-68b368dc77b8@eng.cam.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an > index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all > the variants of Stear. > > see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm > > I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct > families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable.  I > accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how > the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers > were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own > signature in both forms. > > It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples in > the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual > signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used > different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same > document. > > The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write > down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. > > It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames > have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have > written records for common people, and well before most of the > population was literate. > > All the AG entries can be found at > http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm > > (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 > ways in which that was spelt!) > > Chris Burgoyne > > OPC for Aveton Gifford > > > > > > On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: >> I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). >> >> Joy >> >> ----Original message---- >>   From : ourmail@chez-williams.com >> Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) >> To : devon@rootsweb.com >> Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge >> >> Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >> Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >> possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >> confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >> definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >> the children. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 18:22:37 -0000 > From: "Martin Beavis" <beavis.history@yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of >     Science, Literature > To: <devon@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <7B488DEBD9A14444ABB0405401345F1C@Martin2011> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >     reply-type=response > > Early volumes of the Transactions of the Devonshire Association (1862-1908, > 1910-1920) are available online as scanned copies, free to read or download: > https://devonassoc.org.uk/publications/transactions/ > A complete list of all papers (1863 to date) is available at: > https://devonassoc.org.uk/publications/transactions/contents/ > They are mostly of a geological, scientific, architectural or literary > nature, but do include some local town histories.  Fewer than 5% of the > titles seem relevant to our family history interests, but may contain some > hidden gems, as found in Bev Edmonds' extraction from Ogwell church. > > Does anyone know if the missing 1909 volume XLI (41) is anywhere online? > That's the one I'd most like to access. > > Martin Beavis - DFHS 23203 > > -----Original Message----- > From: B. Edmonds > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 12:17 AM > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of > Science, Literature > > For anyone not sure about ploughing through this book. It might be > worthwhile. > > 234 CHURCHES AND MANORS OF E. AND W. 0GWELL. > > Copy/paste > > On the east wall of the " dormitory " there is a large slab > of marble, from the encrinite quarry in the neighbourhood, > inscribed - > > " Here lyeth ye Body of S' Richard Reynell of Ogwell Kn* > (sonne of S' Thomas Reynell Kn^) who dyed the 12*** day of > February 1648, being aged 64 yeares two moneths and three > weekes. He had issue by Mary his first wife (eldest daughter of > Richard Reynell of Credywiger Esq') five sonnes (three of them > dyed very young) foure daughters. > > "Here lyeth also ye body of Dorothy second wife of S' > Richard Reynell of Og wells Kn* (who married her December ye > 15"� 1636) and she died March the 28*^ 1642. By her he had > noe issue. She was the first that was laide in this dormitory > which was founded and built in y� yeare 1633 by the above > mentioned S*" Richard Reynell. The above saide Dorothy was > aged forty nine yeares and ten dayes when she dyed. > > " Hereunder also lye the bodyes of Richard Reynell eldest son > of Thomas Reynell Esq"^ born ye 26*** of August 1652 and died > March 27*** 1660. Joanna Reynell third daughter of Thomas > Reynell Esq born 12*** of August 1654 and died 27*** January 1662. > > -------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:15:35 +0000 (GMT) > From: Joy Langdon <joy.langdon@btinternet.com> > Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: >     <6351282.43993.1546460135614.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > You may be right but a couple of wills on the Devon Wills Project have the name as Sture (Steere): > Sture (Steere) John, Northehuyshe, gentleman 1591 > Sture or Steire Walter, Crediton, husbandsman 1574 > > I can cite one example where I discarded a possible baptism because the surname was similar but different enough to be unlikely but circumstantial evidence turned up that suggests it is the correct entry (I can't prove it).  I was helping some distant cousins to get past their brick wall on the side of their family we don't share.  They had looked in vain for an Ann Giles who married in Lostwithiel in 1825.  On all census returns she gave her birthplace as St Neot.  There was no baptism to be found in St Neot and, in fact, there was no Ann Giles baptism anywhere around the right time.  I tried searching for baptisms at St Neot for just the first name, Ann, in case it was a case of an illegitimate birth where the mother subsequently married a Giles.  No illegitimate Ann but there was an Ann Jewels baptised at the right time.  Giles/Jewels?  No, the vowel sounds are as different as Steer/Sture.  Coincidentally, the mother of Ann Jewels had the surname Rundle which was the name of Ann Giles's marriage witnesses.  As Ann married in Lostwithiel, I looked for any other Giles marriages there.  There is a marriage 1836 for Margaret Giles and Robert Rescorla.  On the 1851 census Margaret's birthplace is Cardinham c1820 but there is no baptism for Ann Giles at Cardinham (or anywhere else) around this date.  However, there is a baptism at Cardinham 1818 for Margaret Rundle Jewel, parents Thomas and Marianne Jewel.  And Robert and Margaret Rescorla baptised a son Thomas Jewells Rescorla at Lostwithiel.  There is also a burial at Lostwithiel for a Thomas Jewells alias Giles (Margaret's father?).  The age at death matches with the baptism of a brother of Ann's if their parents were Thomas Jewells and Elizabeth Rundle. > > Happy New Year, > > Joy > > --- Original message---- > >From : cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk > Date : 02/01/2019 - 14:47 (GMT) > To : devon@rootsweb.com > Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > > In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an > index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all > the variants of Stear. > > see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm > > I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct > families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable.  I > accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how > the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers > were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own > signature in both forms. > > It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples in > the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual > signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used > different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same > document. > > The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write > down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. > > It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames > have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have > written records for common people, and well before most of the > population was literate. > > All the AG entries can be found at > http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm > > (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 > ways in which that was spelt!) > > Chris Burgoyne > > OPC for Aveton Gifford > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:52:20 -0000 > From: "Mike Mallett" <mm-lists@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [DEV] History of Wetherspoons pubs in Devon. > To: <devon@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <05e501d4a2dd$0e1bc4c0$2a534e40$@ntlworld.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;      charset="us-ascii" > > I spotted this site > > https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pub-histories/england/devon > > > > > > > > Mike. > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:33:03 +1100 > From: Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> > Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > To: <devon@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <dbe08cf0-9f99-e9c5-1ebc-7530ab0fea00@chez-williams.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed > > Thank you Paul, Joy and Chris for your helpful comments and suggestions. > > I had been basing my rejection of Sture upon my recollection of accents > 50 years ago. I had thought it might be harder than you intimated Joy. > For instance I was taught that AG was Autun Giffurd, with a hard G. > Incidentally I couldn't access the video you sent as it is apparently > not permitted in Australia! > > My family bible starts with the mge of Richard Stear to Elizabeth > Richards in Stoke Damerel on 22 May 1798.  I had made no progress there > for 15 years, until recently I looked at their mge cert and investigated > the witnesses.  One turned out to be the husband of Grace Stear of > Kingsbridge b 1761.  That started me collating all the Stears from that > parish, from which I deduced that Grace was Richard's aunt. > > Looking at the Kingsbridge register a couple, Thomas & Joan, appear to > have baptised children with the following surnames:- > > Dorothy Sture 1711  buried as Stare 1713 > Richard Sture 1714 > Dorothy Stear 1715/16 > Thomas Stear 1718/19 > John Sture 1720/21  buried as Stear in 1723 > Elizabeth Sture 1724 > Nicolus Stuer 1727 > John Steare 1730 buried as Steare in 1731 > > Parents Thomas & Joan were buried as Stear in 1766 and 1774 respectively. > > The above dates lead me to the conclusion that the bpts are of > siblings.  I haven't made a thorough examination of the writing in the > registers other than to realise there were different authors, which > presumably accounts for the spelling variations as has been suggested. > Looking at your transcriptions Chris, I could spot no overlap between > Sture and Steer etc families, so perhaps things were different in AG. > > My next brick wall is to find the marriage of Thomas & Joan, presumably > circa 1710. Looking at the dates of their deaths I doubt either were > born before 1690.  Although I have found Stear (& variants) marriages in > surrounding parishes at about that time, nothing for a Thomas & Joan. > So any ideas there would be welcome! > > Thanks again to you all for responding to my query, > > John > > > > > > On 3/01/2019 1:47 am, Chris Burgoyne wrote: >> In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an >> index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of >> all the variants of Stear. >> >> see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm >> >> I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct >> families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I >> accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is >> how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the >> Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her >> father's own signature in both forms. >> >> It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples >> in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual >> signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son >> used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the >> same document. >> >> The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write >> down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. >> >> It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but >> surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years >> before we have written records for common people, and well before most >> of the population was literate. >> >> All the AG entries can be found at >> http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm >> >> (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 >> ways in which that was spelt!) >> >> Chris Burgoyne >> >> OPC for Aveton Gifford >> >> >> >> >> >> On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: >>> I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, >>> broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been >>> subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant >>> television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be >>> heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way >>> that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). >>> >>> Joy >>> >>> ----Original message---- >>>  From : ourmail@chez-williams.com >>> Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) >>> To : devon@rootsweb.com >>> Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge >>> >>> Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >>> Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >>> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >>> possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >>> confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >>> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >>> definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >>> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >>> the children. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS >>> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>> Unsubscribe >>> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >>> RootsWeb community >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > Email preferences (change your email address): http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY > Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > To contact the DEVON list administrators, email: devon-owner@rootsweb.com > > To post a message to the DEVON mailing list, send an email to devon@rootsweb.com > __________________________________________________________ > DEVON List Archives and Unsubscribe: https://goo.gl/AAU4eu > > ------------------------------ > > End of DEVON Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > ************************************ > > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi est: Could we ask you to try to avoid including the whole of a Devon mailing list digest in any replies you send to the list, but instead just the text of the particular message you are replying to. The mistake is easily made, but it does cause excessive email traffic. Thanks Cheers Brian Randell On 3 Jan 2019, at 12:33, est via DEVON <devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com>> wrote: The DA still exists. They produce an annual report in book form and have done so for very many years. Some wonderful history and records in earlier publications of which I had an extensive run until I moved. Still available from second hand book dealers.The Reynells were Lords of the Manor in Newton Abbot and their 16th century manor house is now in the care of the local council. I can recall having a Christian prayer group breakfast there (one could hire it for functions ) and admiring the amazing pargeting on the walls & ceiling, eating in a room where Royalists and Roundheads had once dined. Reynell allowed the Royalists in but carefully managed to be absent at the time. !StephenTreseder. (Now in Spain) Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 at 10:03, devon-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon-request@rootsweb.com><devon-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon-request@rootsweb.com>> wrote: Send DEVON mailing list submissions to devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com> To subscribe via email send a message with subject subscribe and body subscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon-request@rootsweb.com> To unsubscribe via email send a message with subject unsubscribe and body unsubscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon-request@rootsweb.com> You can reach the person managing the list at devon-owner@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon-owner@rootsweb.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DEVON digest..." Please ensure that you change the subject line to the message subject when replying, and PLEASE DELETE ALL THE OTHER DIGEST MESSAGES EXCEPT THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TO. Please do not leave it as a DIGEST heading. Thank you Today's Topics: 1. The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature (B. Edmonds) 2. Richard Pope of Harberton d 1815 & Robert CRIMP of Buckfastleigh (B. Edmonds) 3. Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature (B. Edmonds) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:23:12 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au<mailto:beverley@yourisp.com.au>> Subject: [DEV] The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature To: <devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com>> Message-ID: <43816C6AFE1F45F1ADB8733EB94F889D@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original This book can be downloaded but it is heavy reading, but could be interesting, have not had time to look at it properly. Bev Report and Transactions - The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature https://archive.org/stream/reportandtransa18artgoog/reportandtransa18artgoog_djvu.txt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:50:20 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au<mailto:beverley@yourisp.com.au>> Subject: [DEV] Richard Pope of Harberton d 1815 & Robert CRIMP of Buckfastleigh To: <eng-dev-southhams@rootsweb.com<mailto:eng-dev-southhams@rootsweb.com>>, <devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com>> Message-ID: <83ABC2AADDD4458F9652185A57F8D29E@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Not my chaps Richard POPE of Harberton was buried 25 Feb 1815 aged 50 According to a Coroner's Report 26 Feb 1815 Richd. POPE died by a " fall from a ladder ", with information supplied by Wm. HARDY Robert CRIMP was buried at Buckfastleigh 10 Feb 1815 aged 48 According to a Coroner's Report Rob't. CRIMP of Buckfastleigh 9 Feb 1815 "Drowned." With information supplied R. HOLDITCH Regards Bev ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:17:26 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au<mailto:beverley@yourisp.com.au>> Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature To: <devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com>> Message-ID: <D4780ECBFFB74FD5962F770926EE4865@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response For anyone not sure about ploughing through this book. It might be worthwhile. 234 CHURCHES AND MANORS OF E. AND W. 0GWELL. Copy/paste On the east wall of the " dormitory " there is a large slab of marble, from the encrinite quarry in the neighbourhood, inscribed - " Here lyeth ye Body of S' Richard Reynell of Ogwell Kn* (sonne of S' Thomas Reynell Kn^) who dyed the 12*** day of February 1648, being aged 64 yeares two moneths and three weekes. He had issue by Mary his first wife (eldest daughter of Richard Reynell of Credywiger Esq') five sonnes (three of them dyed very young) foure daughters. "Here lyeth also ye body of Dorothy second wife of S' Richard Reynell of Og wells Kn* (who married her December ye 15"» 1636) and she died March the 28*^ 1642. By her he had noe issue. She was the first that was laide in this dormitory which was founded and built in y® yeare 1633 by the above mentioned S*" Richard Reynell. The above saide Dorothy was aged forty nine yeares and ten dayes when she dyed. " Hereunder also lye the bodyes of Richard Reynell eldest son of Thomas Reynell Esq"^ born ye 26*** of August 1652 and died March 27*** 1660. Joanna Reynell third daughter of Thomas Reynell Esq born 12*** of August 1654 and died 27*** January 1662. -------------------------------------------------- From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au<mailto:beverley@yourisp.com.au>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 9:23 AM To: <devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com>> Subject: [DEV] The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature This book can be downloaded but it is heavy reading, but could be interesting, have not had time to look at it properly. Bev Report and Transactions - The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature https://archive.org/stream/reportandtransa18artgoog/reportandtransa18artgoog_djvu.txt _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer Email preferences (change your email address): http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 To contact the DEVON list administrators, email: devon-owner@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon-owner@rootsweb.com> To post a message to the DEVON mailing list, send an email to devon@rootsweb.com<mailto:devon@rootsweb.com> __________________________________________________________ DEVON List Archives and Unsubscribe: https://goo.gl/AAU4eu ------------------------------ End of DEVON Digest, Vol 13, Issue 393 ************************************** _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com<http://ancestry.com> and our loyal RootsWeb community — School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk<mailto:Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk> PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

My DEVON lines are SKEMP...sometimes seen as SCAMP, and WIDLAKE or WEDLAKE, and also BENNETT. They seem to have been concentrated in and near Barnstaple, and there is history to say there are ties of WIDLAKE to the Lorna Doone story and the RIDD family. My great grandfather, Charles Widlake SKEMP left Devon before 1870, going first to Illinois and later to Dubuque, Iowa where he married Laura Catherine CAIN. My paternal grandmother was one of their daughters, Ivy Laura SKEMP who married Joseph Henry WILLIAMS, my grandfather who was born Jan 1883 in Blankenheim, Germany as Heinrich Joseph WILMS and immigrated in 1883 as an infant with his parents Anna Helena Magdalena PAULI and spouse Johann Joseph WILMS, a church painter / artist / gilder. The SKEMPs in Dubuque, Iowa were stonemasons / brickmasons and in the building trade, building many of Dubuque's beautiful, historical buildings. (I will note that I have found various family branches who named sons Charles Widlake Skemp, which has created some confusion from time to time.) -----Original Message----- From: est via DEVON [mailto:devon@rootsweb.com] Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:20 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Cc: est <kernowest@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [DEV] Re: DEVON Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 Let us not forget the good old Devon name of STEWER when looking at variations.S. Treseder Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 10:04, devon-request@rootsweb.com<devon-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: Send DEVON mailing list submissions to devon@rootsweb.com To subscribe via email send a message with subject subscribe and body subscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com To unsubscribe via email send a message with subject unsubscribe and body unsubscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com You can reach the person managing the list at devon-owner@rootsweb.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DEVON digest..." Please ensure that you change the subject line to the message subject when replying, and PLEASE DELETE ALL THE OTHER DIGEST MESSAGES EXCEPT THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TO. Please do not leave it as a DIGEST heading. Thank you Today's Topics: 1. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Paul Benyon) 2. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Joy Langdon) 3. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Chris Burgoyne) 4. Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature (Martin Beavis) 5. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Joy Langdon) 6. History of Wetherspoons pubs in Devon. (Mike Mallett) 7. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Our Mail) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:49:38 +0000 From: Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <orvo2etjmqae236uljehl1kebj2dldet6r@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" John I think you also have to remember that rectors/vicars often came from other parts of the country and would use forms of spelling with which they were familiar, so, this combined with an accent with which they weren't familiar can create quite wide variations in spelling.....this can sometimes be observed in the PRs quite clearly over the years following the introduction of new vicars, especially when not prepared to continue using local variations. Paul Benyon (N Wales)/Beynon (S Wales)/Bennion (Lancs/Cheshire) &c a couple of the various spellings of my surname even today, but especially when the name has been taken verbally/orally, when you can count on getting a few Bunyans, usually to satisfy someone's sense of humour -;) but, nevertheless, I think it probably demonstrates the familiarity theme. On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 19:22:02 +1100, you wrote: >Yes I have Nancy. I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star >and Sture in Kingsbridge. With my recollection of the Devon accent (I >was brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >possibly the 4th. However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can >be confused with Stear. Perhaps someone on the list knows differently? >I would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >definitely Sture. The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >the children. > >Cheers, >John > >On 2/01/2019 5:25 pm, Nancy Frey wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> I don't have any STEAR but I do have STEER and found them spelled >> STEAR on occasion. Have you checked this spelling variation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Nancy Frey >> OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset >> >> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> wrote: >> >>> I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought >>> I'd send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. >>> >>> One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on >>> 20 March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary >>> married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771. That Richard was also the >>> son of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in >>> Aveton Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall >>> with the Stear line.\com and our loyal RootsWeb community >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community >> > >_______________________________________________ >------------------------------------------ >The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS >(http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >_______________________________________________ >Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe >https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb >is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >community 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 12:30:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Joy Langdon <joy.langdon@btinternet.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: devon@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <18274204.15009.1546432241648.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc. I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). Joy ----Original message---- >From : ourmail@chez-williams.com Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge Yes I have Nancy. I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and Sture in Kingsbridge. With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and possibly the 4th. However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be confused with Stear. Perhaps someone on the list knows differently? I would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are definitely Sture. The parents shown on the baptisms for the various spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all the children. Cheers, John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:47:32 +0000 From: Chris Burgoyne <cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: devon@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <b73e2c12-2d83-6421-005e-68b368dc77b8@eng.cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all the variants of Stear. see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how the names sound. My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own signature in both forms. It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid. There are examples in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same document. The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have written records for common people, and well before most of the population was literate. All the AG entries can be found at http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 ways in which that was spelt!) Chris Burgoyne OPC for Aveton Gifford On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: > I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc. I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). > > Joy > > ----Original message---- > From : ourmail@chez-williams.com > Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) > To : devon@rootsweb.com > Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > > Yes I have Nancy. I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and > Sture in Kingsbridge. With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was > brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and > possibly the 4th. However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be > confused with Stear. Perhaps someone on the list knows differently? I > would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are > definitely Sture. The parents shown on the baptisms for the various > spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all > the children. > > Cheers, > John > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 18:22:37 -0000 From: "Martin Beavis" <beavis.history@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <7B488DEBD9A14444ABB0405401345F1C@Martin2011> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Early volumes of the Transactions of the Devonshire Association (1862-1908, 1910-1920) are available online as scanned copies, free to read or download: https://devonassoc.org.uk/publications/transactions/ A complete list of all papers (1863 to date) is available at: https://devonassoc.org.uk/publications/transactions/contents/ They are mostly of a geological, scientific, architectural or literary nature, but do include some local town histories. Fewer than 5% of the titles seem relevant to our family history interests, but may contain some hidden gems, as found in Bev Edmonds' extraction from Ogwell church. Does anyone know if the missing 1909 volume XLI (41) is anywhere online? That's the one I'd most like to access. Martin Beavis - DFHS 23203 -----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 12:17 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature For anyone not sure about ploughing through this book. It might be worthwhile. 234 CHURCHES AND MANORS OF E. AND W. 0GWELL. Copy/paste On the east wall of the " dormitory " there is a large slab of marble, from the encrinite quarry in the neighbourhood, inscribed - " Here lyeth ye Body of S' Richard Reynell of Ogwell Kn* (sonne of S' Thomas Reynell Kn^) who dyed the 12*** day of February 1648, being aged 64 yeares two moneths and three weekes. He had issue by Mary his first wife (eldest daughter of Richard Reynell of Credywiger Esq') five sonnes (three of them dyed very young) foure daughters. "Here lyeth also ye body of Dorothy second wife of S' Richard Reynell of Og wells Kn* (who married her December ye 15"� 1636) and she died March the 28*^ 1642. By her he had noe issue. She was the first that was laide in this dormitory which was founded and built in y� yeare 1633 by the above mentioned S*" Richard Reynell. The above saide Dorothy was aged forty nine yeares and ten dayes when she dyed. " Hereunder also lye the bodyes of Richard Reynell eldest son of Thomas Reynell Esq"^ born ye 26*** of August 1652 and died March 27*** 1660. Joanna Reynell third daughter of Thomas Reynell Esq born 12*** of August 1654 and died 27*** January 1662. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:15:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Joy Langdon <joy.langdon@btinternet.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: devon@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <6351282.43993.1546460135614.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" You may be right but a couple of wills on the Devon Wills Project have the name as Sture (Steere): Sture (Steere) John, Northehuyshe, gentleman 1591 Sture or Steire Walter, Crediton, husbandsman 1574 I can cite one example where I discarded a possible baptism because the surname was similar but different enough to be unlikely but circumstantial evidence turned up that suggests it is the correct entry (I can't prove it). I was helping some distant cousins to get past their brick wall on the side of their family we don't share. They had looked in vain for an Ann Giles who married in Lostwithiel in 1825. On all census returns she gave her birthplace as St Neot. There was no baptism to be found in St Neot and, in fact, there was no Ann Giles baptism anywhere around the right time. I tried searching for baptisms at St Neot for just the first name, Ann, in case it was a case of an illegitimate birth where the mother subsequently married a Giles. No illegitimate Ann but there was an Ann Jewels baptised at the right time. Giles/Jewels? No, the vowel sounds are as different as Steer/Sture. Coincidentally, the mother of Ann Jewels had the surname Rundle which was the name of Ann Giles's marriage witnesses. As Ann married in Lostwithiel, I looked for any other Giles marriages there. There is a marriage 1836 for Margaret Giles and Robert Rescorla. On the 1851 census Margaret's birthplace is Cardinham c1820 but there is no baptism for Ann Giles at Cardinham (or anywhere else) around this date. However, there is a baptism at Cardinham 1818 for Margaret Rundle Jewel, parents Thomas and Marianne Jewel. And Robert and Margaret Rescorla baptised a son Thomas Jewells Rescorla at Lostwithiel. There is also a burial at Lostwithiel for a Thomas Jewells alias Giles (Margaret's father?). The age at death matches with the baptism of a brother of Ann's if their parents were Thomas Jewells and Elizabeth Rundle. Happy New Year, Joy --- Original message---- >From : cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk Date : 02/01/2019 - 14:47 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all the variants of Stear. see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how the names sound. My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own signature in both forms. It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid. There are examples in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same document. The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have written records for common people, and well before most of the population was literate. All the AG entries can be found at http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 ways in which that was spelt!) Chris Burgoyne OPC for Aveton Gifford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:52:20 -0000 From: "Mike Mallett" <mm-lists@ntlworld.com> Subject: [DEV] History of Wetherspoons pubs in Devon. To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <05e501d4a2dd$0e1bc4c0$2a534e40$@ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I spotted this site https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pub-histories/england/devon Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:33:03 +1100 From: Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <dbe08cf0-9f99-e9c5-1ebc-7530ab0fea00@chez-williams.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Thank you Paul, Joy and Chris for your helpful comments and suggestions. I had been basing my rejection of Sture upon my recollection of accents 50 years ago. I had thought it might be harder than you intimated Joy. For instance I was taught that AG was Autun Giffurd, with a hard G. Incidentally I couldn't access the video you sent as it is apparently not permitted in Australia! My family bible starts with the mge of Richard Stear to Elizabeth Richards in Stoke Damerel on 22 May 1798. I had made no progress there for 15 years, until recently I looked at their mge cert and investigated the witnesses. One turned out to be the husband of Grace Stear of Kingsbridge b 1761. That started me collating all the Stears from that parish, from which I deduced that Grace was Richard's aunt. Looking at the Kingsbridge register a couple, Thomas & Joan, appear to have baptised children with the following surnames:- Dorothy Sture 1711 buried as Stare 1713 Richard Sture 1714 Dorothy Stear 1715/16 Thomas Stear 1718/19 John Sture 1720/21 buried as Stear in 1723 Elizabeth Sture 1724 Nicolus Stuer 1727 John Steare 1730 buried as Steare in 1731 Parents Thomas & Joan were buried as Stear in 1766 and 1774 respectively. The above dates lead me to the conclusion that the bpts are of siblings. I haven't made a thorough examination of the writing in the registers other than to realise there were different authors, which presumably accounts for the spelling variations as has been suggested. Looking at your transcriptions Chris, I could spot no overlap between Sture and Steer etc families, so perhaps things were different in AG. My next brick wall is to find the marriage of Thomas & Joan, presumably circa 1710. Looking at the dates of their deaths I doubt either were born before 1690. Although I have found Stear (& variants) marriages in surrounding parishes at about that time, nothing for a Thomas & Joan. So any ideas there would be welcome! Thanks again to you all for responding to my query, John On 3/01/2019 1:47 am, Chris Burgoyne wrote: > In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an > index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of > all the variants of Stear. > > see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm > > I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct > families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I > accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is > how the names sound. My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the > Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her > father's own signature in both forms. > > It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid. There are examples > in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual > signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son > used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the > same document. > > The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write > down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. > > It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but > surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years > before we have written records for common people, and well before most > of the population was literate. > > All the AG entries can be found at > http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm > > (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 > ways in which that was spelt!) > > Chris Burgoyne > > OPC for Aveton Gifford > > > > > > On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: >> I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, >> broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been >> subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant >> television and radio etc. I can easily imagine that Steer coud be >> heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way >> that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). >> >> Joy >> >> ----Original message---- >> From : ourmail@chez-williams.com >> Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) >> To : devon@rootsweb.com >> Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge >> >> Yes I have Nancy. I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >> Sture in Kingsbridge. With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >> possibly the 4th. However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >> confused with Stear. Perhaps someone on the list knows differently? I >> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >> definitely Sture. The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >> the children. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer Email preferences (change your email address): http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 To contact the DEVON list administrators, email: devon-owner@rootsweb.com To post a message to the DEVON mailing list, send an email to devon@rootsweb.com __________________________________________________________ DEVON List Archives and Unsubscribe: https://goo.gl/AAU4eu ------------------------------ End of DEVON Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 ************************************ _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Let us not forget the good old Devon name of STEWER when looking at variations.S. Treseder Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 10:04, devon-request@rootsweb.com<devon-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: Send DEVON mailing list submissions to devon@rootsweb.com To subscribe via email send a message with subject subscribe and body subscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com To unsubscribe via email send a message with subject unsubscribe and body unsubscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com You can reach the person managing the list at devon-owner@rootsweb.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DEVON digest..." Please ensure that you change the subject line to the message subject when replying, and PLEASE DELETE ALL THE OTHER DIGEST MESSAGES EXCEPT THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TO. Please do not leave it as a DIGEST heading. Thank you Today's Topics:   1. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Paul Benyon)   2. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Joy Langdon)   3. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Chris Burgoyne)   4. Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature       (Martin Beavis)   5. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Joy Langdon)   6. History of Wetherspoons pubs in Devon. (Mike Mallett)   7. Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge (Our Mail) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 09:49:38 +0000 From: Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <orvo2etjmqae236uljehl1kebj2dldet6r@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" John I think you also have to remember that rectors/vicars often came from other parts of the country and would use forms of spelling with which they were familiar, so, this combined with an accent with which they weren't familiar can create quite wide variations in spelling.....this can sometimes be observed in the PRs quite clearly over the years following the introduction of new vicars, especially when not prepared to continue using local variations. Paul Benyon (N Wales)/Beynon (S Wales)/Bennion (Lancs/Cheshire) &c a couple of the various spellings of my surname even today, but especially when the name has been taken verbally/orally, when you can count on getting a few Bunyans, usually to satisfy someone's sense of humour -;) but, nevertheless, I think it probably demonstrates the familiarity theme. On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 19:22:02 +1100, you wrote: >Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >the children. > >Cheers, >John > >On 2/01/2019 5:25 pm, Nancy Frey wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> I don't have any STEAR but I do have STEER and found them spelled STEAR on >> occasion.  Have you checked this spelling variation? >> >> Regards, >> >> Nancy Frey >> OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset >> >> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:12 PM Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> wrote: >> >>> I posted the following message on the South Hams list, but thought I'd >>> send to this one in the hope of a wider audience. >>> >>> One of my ggg grandfathers, Richard Stear, was bpt in Kingsbridge on 20 >>> March 1775, the son of Richard & Mary (nee Weeks). Richard & Mary >>> married in South Milton on 10 Oct 1771.  That Richard was also the son >>> of a Richard, and his wife Margaret Clements, who married in Aveton >>> Gifford on 29 Aug 1737. That is where I run into a brick wall with the >>> Stear line.\com and our loyal RootsWeb community >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> > >_______________________________________________ >------------------------------------------ >The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >_______________________________________________ >Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 12:30:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Joy Langdon <joy.langdon@btinternet.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: devon@rootsweb.com Message-ID:     <18274204.15009.1546432241648.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). Joy ----Original message---- >From : ourmail@chez-williams.com Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all the children. Cheers, John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 14:47:32 +0000 From: Chris Burgoyne <cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: devon@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <b73e2c12-2d83-6421-005e-68b368dc77b8@eng.cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all the variants of Stear. see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable.  I accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own signature in both forms. It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same document. The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have written records for common people, and well before most of the population was literate. All the AG entries can be found at http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 ways in which that was spelt!) Chris Burgoyne OPC for Aveton Gifford On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: > I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). > > Joy > > ----Original message---- >  From : ourmail@chez-williams.com > Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) > To : devon@rootsweb.com > Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge > > Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and > Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was > brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and > possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be > confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I > would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are > definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various > spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all > the children. > > Cheers, > John > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 18:22:37 -0000 From: "Martin Beavis" <beavis.history@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of     Science, Literature To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <7B488DEBD9A14444ABB0405401345F1C@Martin2011> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=response Early volumes of the Transactions of the Devonshire Association (1862-1908, 1910-1920) are available online as scanned copies, free to read or download: https://devonassoc.org.uk/publications/transactions/ A complete list of all papers (1863 to date) is available at: https://devonassoc.org.uk/publications/transactions/contents/ They are mostly of a geological, scientific, architectural or literary nature, but do include some local town histories.  Fewer than 5% of the titles seem relevant to our family history interests, but may contain some hidden gems, as found in Bev Edmonds' extraction from Ogwell church. Does anyone know if the missing 1909 volume XLI (41) is anywhere online? That's the one I'd most like to access. Martin Beavis - DFHS 23203 -----Original Message----- From: B. Edmonds Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 12:17 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature For anyone not sure about ploughing through this book. It might be worthwhile. 234 CHURCHES AND MANORS OF E. AND W. 0GWELL. Copy/paste On the east wall of the " dormitory " there is a large slab of marble, from the encrinite quarry in the neighbourhood, inscribed - " Here lyeth ye Body of S' Richard Reynell of Ogwell Kn* (sonne of S' Thomas Reynell Kn^) who dyed the 12*** day of February 1648, being aged 64 yeares two moneths and three weekes. He had issue by Mary his first wife (eldest daughter of Richard Reynell of Credywiger Esq') five sonnes (three of them dyed very young) foure daughters. "Here lyeth also ye body of Dorothy second wife of S' Richard Reynell of Og wells Kn* (who married her December ye 15"� 1636) and she died March the 28*^ 1642. By her he had noe issue. She was the first that was laide in this dormitory which was founded and built in y� yeare 1633 by the above mentioned S*" Richard Reynell. The above saide Dorothy was aged forty nine yeares and ten dayes when she dyed. " Hereunder also lye the bodyes of Richard Reynell eldest son of Thomas Reynell Esq"^ born ye 26*** of August 1652 and died March 27*** 1660. Joanna Reynell third daughter of Thomas Reynell Esq born 12*** of August 1654 and died 27*** January 1662. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:15:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Joy Langdon <joy.langdon@btinternet.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: devon@rootsweb.com Message-ID:     <6351282.43993.1546460135614.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" You may be right but a couple of wills on the Devon Wills Project have the name as Sture (Steere): Sture (Steere) John, Northehuyshe, gentleman 1591 Sture or Steire Walter, Crediton, husbandsman 1574 I can cite one example where I discarded a possible baptism because the surname was similar but different enough to be unlikely but circumstantial evidence turned up that suggests it is the correct entry (I can't prove it).  I was helping some distant cousins to get past their brick wall on the side of their family we don't share.  They had looked in vain for an Ann Giles who married in Lostwithiel in 1825.  On all census returns she gave her birthplace as St Neot.  There was no baptism to be found in St Neot and, in fact, there was no Ann Giles baptism anywhere around the right time.  I tried searching for baptisms at St Neot for just the first name, Ann, in case it was a case of an illegitimate birth where the mother subsequently married a Giles.  No illegitimate Ann but there was an Ann Jewels baptised at the right time.  Giles/Jewels?  No, the vowel sounds are as different as Steer/Sture.  Coincidentally, the mother of Ann Jewels had the surname Rundle which was the name of Ann Giles's marriage witnesses.  As Ann married in Lostwithiel, I looked for any other Giles marriages there.  There is a marriage 1836 for Margaret Giles and Robert Rescorla.  On the 1851 census Margaret's birthplace is Cardinham c1820 but there is no baptism for Ann Giles at Cardinham (or anywhere else) around this date.  However, there is a baptism at Cardinham 1818 for Margaret Rundle Jewel, parents Thomas and Marianne Jewel.  And Robert and Margaret Rescorla baptised a son Thomas Jewells Rescorla at Lostwithiel.  There is also a burial at Lostwithiel for a Thomas Jewells alias Giles (Margaret's father?).  The age at death matches with the baptism of a brother of Ann's if their parents were Thomas Jewells and Elizabeth Rundle. Happy New Year, Joy --- Original message---- >From : cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk Date : 02/01/2019 - 14:47 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all the variants of Stear. see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable.  I accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own signature in both forms. It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same document. The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have written records for common people, and well before most of the population was literate. All the AG entries can be found at http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 ways in which that was spelt!) Chris Burgoyne OPC for Aveton Gifford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:52:20 -0000 From: "Mike Mallett" <mm-lists@ntlworld.com> Subject: [DEV] History of Wetherspoons pubs in Devon. To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <05e501d4a2dd$0e1bc4c0$2a534e40$@ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain;      charset="us-ascii" I spotted this site https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pub-histories/england/devon Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:33:03 +1100 From: Our Mail <ourmail@chez-williams.com> Subject: [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <dbe08cf0-9f99-e9c5-1ebc-7530ab0fea00@chez-williams.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Thank you Paul, Joy and Chris for your helpful comments and suggestions. I had been basing my rejection of Sture upon my recollection of accents 50 years ago. I had thought it might be harder than you intimated Joy.  For instance I was taught that AG was Autun Giffurd, with a hard G.  Incidentally I couldn't access the video you sent as it is apparently not permitted in Australia! My family bible starts with the mge of Richard Stear to Elizabeth Richards in Stoke Damerel on 22 May 1798.  I had made no progress there for 15 years, until recently I looked at their mge cert and investigated the witnesses.  One turned out to be the husband of Grace Stear of Kingsbridge b 1761.  That started me collating all the Stears from that parish, from which I deduced that Grace was Richard's aunt. Looking at the Kingsbridge register a couple, Thomas & Joan, appear to have baptised children with the following surnames:- Dorothy Sture 1711  buried as Stare 1713 Richard Sture 1714 Dorothy Stear 1715/16 Thomas Stear 1718/19 John Sture 1720/21  buried as Stear in 1723 Elizabeth Sture 1724 Nicolus Stuer 1727 John Steare 1730 buried as Steare in 1731 Parents Thomas & Joan were buried as Stear in 1766 and 1774 respectively. The above dates lead me to the conclusion that the bpts are of siblings.  I haven't made a thorough examination of the writing in the registers other than to realise there were different authors, which presumably accounts for the spelling variations as has been suggested.  Looking at your transcriptions Chris, I could spot no overlap between Sture and Steer etc families, so perhaps things were different in AG. My next brick wall is to find the marriage of Thomas & Joan, presumably circa 1710. Looking at the dates of their deaths I doubt either were born before 1690.  Although I have found Stear (& variants) marriages in surrounding parishes at about that time, nothing for a Thomas & Joan.  So any ideas there would be welcome! Thanks again to you all for responding to my query, John On 3/01/2019 1:47 am, Chris Burgoyne wrote: > In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an > index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of > all the variants of Stear. > > see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm > > I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct > families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I > accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is > how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the > Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her > father's own signature in both forms. > > It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples > in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual > signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son > used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the > same document. > > The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write > down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. > > It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but > surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years > before we have written records for common people, and well before most > of the population was literate. > > All the AG entries can be found at > http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm > > (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 > ways in which that was spelt!) > > Chris Burgoyne > > OPC for Aveton Gifford > > > > > > On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: >> I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, >> broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been >> subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant >> television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be >> heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way >> that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). >> >> Joy >> >> ----Original message---- >>  From : ourmail@chez-williams.com >> Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) >> To : devon@rootsweb.com >> Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge >> >> Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >> Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >> possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >> confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >> definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >> the children. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer Email preferences (change your email address): http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 To contact the DEVON list administrators, email: devon-owner@rootsweb.com To post a message to the DEVON mailing list, send an email to devon@rootsweb.com __________________________________________________________ DEVON List Archives and Unsubscribe: https://goo.gl/AAU4eu ------------------------------ End of DEVON Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 ************************************

The DA still exists. They produce an annual report in book form and have done so for very many years. Some wonderful history and records in earlier publications of which I had an extensive run until I moved. Still available from second hand book dealers.The Reynells were Lords of the Manor in Newton Abbot and their 16th century manor house is now in the  care of the local council.  I can recall having a Christian prayer group breakfast there (one could hire it for functions )  and admiring the amazing pargeting on the walls & ceiling,  eating in a room where Royalists and Roundheads had once dined. Reynell allowed the Royalists in but carefully managed to be absent at the time. !StephenTreseder. (Now in Spain) Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 at 10:03, devon-request@rootsweb.com<devon-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: Send DEVON mailing list submissions to devon@rootsweb.com To subscribe via email send a message with subject subscribe and body subscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com To unsubscribe via email send a message with subject unsubscribe and body unsubscribe to devon-request@rootsweb.com You can reach the person managing the list at devon-owner@rootsweb.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of DEVON digest..." Please ensure that you change the subject line to the message subject when replying, and PLEASE DELETE ALL THE OTHER DIGEST MESSAGES EXCEPT THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TO. Please do not leave it as a DIGEST heading. Thank you Today's Topics:   1. The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature       (B. Edmonds)   2. Richard Pope of Harberton d 1815 & Robert CRIMP of Buckfastleigh       (B. Edmonds)   3. Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature       (B. Edmonds) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:23:12 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Subject: [DEV] The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of     Science, Literature To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <43816C6AFE1F45F1ADB8733EB94F889D@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain;      format=flowed;  charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original This book can be downloaded but it is heavy reading, but could be interesting, have not had time to look at it properly. Bev Report and Transactions - The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature https://archive.org/stream/reportandtransa18artgoog/reportandtransa18artgoog_djvu.txt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:50:20 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Subject: [DEV] Richard Pope of Harberton d 1815 & Robert CRIMP of     Buckfastleigh To: <eng-dev-southhams@rootsweb.com>, <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <83ABC2AADDD4458F9652185A57F8D29E@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain;      format=flowed;  charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Not my chaps Richard POPE of Harberton was buried 25 Feb 1815 aged 50 According to a Coroner's Report 26 Feb 1815 Richd. POPE died by a " fall from a ladder ", with information supplied by Wm. HARDY Robert CRIMP was buried at Buckfastleigh 10 Feb 1815 aged 48 According to a Coroner's Report Rob't. CRIMP of Buckfastleigh 9 Feb 1815 "Drowned." With information supplied R. HOLDITCH Regards Bev ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:17:26 +1000 From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Subject: [DEV] Re: The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of     Science, Literature To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <D4780ECBFFB74FD5962F770926EE4865@AthlonX2260> Content-Type: text/plain;      format=flowed;  charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=response For anyone not sure about ploughing through this book. It might be worthwhile. 234 CHURCHES AND MANORS OF E. AND W. 0GWELL. Copy/paste On the east wall of the " dormitory " there is a large slab of marble, from the encrinite quarry in the neighbourhood, inscribed - " Here lyeth ye Body of S' Richard Reynell of Ogwell Kn* (sonne of S' Thomas Reynell Kn^) who dyed the 12*** day of February 1648, being aged 64 yeares two moneths and three weekes. He had issue by Mary his first wife (eldest daughter of Richard Reynell of Credywiger Esq') five sonnes (three of them dyed very young) foure daughters. "Here lyeth also ye body of Dorothy second wife of S' Richard Reynell of Og wells Kn* (who married her December ye 15"» 1636) and she died March the 28*^ 1642. By her he had noe issue. She was the first that was laide in this dormitory which was founded and built in y® yeare 1633 by the above mentioned S*" Richard Reynell. The above saide Dorothy was aged forty nine yeares and ten dayes when she dyed. " Hereunder also lye the bodyes of Richard Reynell eldest son of Thomas Reynell Esq"^ born ye 26*** of August 1652 and died March 27*** 1660. Joanna Reynell third daughter of Thomas Reynell Esq born 12*** of August 1654 and died 27*** January 1662. -------------------------------------------------- From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 9:23 AM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: [DEV] The Devonshire Association for the Advancement of Science, Literature > This book can be downloaded but it is heavy reading, but could be > interesting, have not had time to look at it properly. Bev > > Report and Transactions - The Devonshire Association for the Advancement > of Science, Literature > > https://archive.org/stream/reportandtransa18artgoog/reportandtransa18artgoog_djvu.txt > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer Email preferences (change your email address): http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 To contact the DEVON list administrators, email: devon-owner@rootsweb.com To post a message to the DEVON mailing list, send an email to devon@rootsweb.com __________________________________________________________ DEVON List Archives and Unsubscribe: https://goo.gl/AAU4eu ------------------------------ End of DEVON Digest, Vol 13, Issue 393 **************************************

Thank you Paul, Joy and Chris for your helpful comments and suggestions. I had been basing my rejection of Sture upon my recollection of accents 50 years ago. I had thought it might be harder than you intimated Joy.  For instance I was taught that AG was Autun Giffurd, with a hard G.  Incidentally I couldn't access the video you sent as it is apparently not permitted in Australia! My family bible starts with the mge of Richard Stear to Elizabeth Richards in Stoke Damerel on 22 May 1798.  I had made no progress there for 15 years, until recently I looked at their mge cert and investigated the witnesses.  One turned out to be the husband of Grace Stear of Kingsbridge b 1761.  That started me collating all the Stears from that parish, from which I deduced that Grace was Richard's aunt. Looking at the Kingsbridge register a couple, Thomas & Joan, appear to have baptised children with the following surnames:- Dorothy Sture 1711  buried as Stare 1713 Richard Sture 1714 Dorothy Stear 1715/16 Thomas Stear 1718/19 John Sture 1720/21  buried as Stear in 1723 Elizabeth Sture 1724 Nicolus Stuer 1727 John Steare 1730 buried as Steare in 1731 Parents Thomas & Joan were buried as Stear in 1766 and 1774 respectively. The above dates lead me to the conclusion that the bpts are of siblings.  I haven't made a thorough examination of the writing in the registers other than to realise there were different authors, which presumably accounts for the spelling variations as has been suggested.  Looking at your transcriptions Chris, I could spot no overlap between Sture and Steer etc families, so perhaps things were different in AG. My next brick wall is to find the marriage of Thomas & Joan, presumably circa 1710. Looking at the dates of their deaths I doubt either were born before 1690.  Although I have found Stear (& variants) marriages in surrounding parishes at about that time, nothing for a Thomas & Joan.  So any ideas there would be welcome! Thanks again to you all for responding to my query, John On 3/01/2019 1:47 am, Chris Burgoyne wrote: > In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an > index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of > all the variants of Stear. > > see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm > > I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct > families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable. I > accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is > how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the > Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her > father's own signature in both forms. > > It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples > in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual > signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son > used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the > same document. > > The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write > down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. > > It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but > surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years > before we have written records for common people, and well before most > of the population was literate. > > All the AG entries can be found at > http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm > > (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 > ways in which that was spelt!) > > Chris Burgoyne > > OPC for Aveton Gifford > > > > > > On 02/01/2019 12:30, Joy Langdon via DEVON wrote: >> I llive in Devon and am old enough to remember the softly spoken, >> broad accents of my old relatives and neighbours who hadn't been >> subjected to estuary English or any other accent from constant >> television and radio etc.  I can easily imagine that Steer coud be >> heard as Sture - think of it as pronounced "Steyur" in the same way >> that "here" is pronounced in Devon "Yur tis" (here it is). >> >> Joy >> >> ----Original message---- >>  From : ourmail@chez-williams.com >> Date : 02/01/2019 - 08:22 (GMT) >> To : devon@rootsweb.com >> Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge >> >> Yes I have Nancy.  I have found the names Stear, Steer, Steere, Star and >> Sture in Kingsbridge.  With my recollection of the Devon accent (I was >> brought up in Plymouth) the first 3 spellings are obviously OK, and >> possibly the 4th.  However, try as I might, I can't see how Sture can be >> confused with Stear.  Perhaps someone on the list knows differently?  I >> would add that I have looked at the images on FMP and the entries are >> definitely Sture.  The parents shown on the baptisms for the various >> spellings are the same, so it's very tempting to take ownership of all >> the children. >> >> Cheers, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS >> (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and  Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/devon@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community

I spotted this site https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pub-histories/england/devon Mike.

You may be right but a couple of wills on the Devon Wills Project have the name as Sture (Steere): Sture (Steere) John, Northehuyshe, gentleman 1591 Sture or Steire Walter, Crediton, husbandsman 1574 I can cite one example where I discarded a possible baptism because the surname was similar but different enough to be unlikely but circumstantial evidence turned up that suggests it is the correct entry (I can't prove it). I was helping some distant cousins to get past their brick wall on the side of their family we don't share. They had looked in vain for an Ann Giles who married in Lostwithiel in 1825. On all census returns she gave her birthplace as St Neot. There was no baptism to be found in St Neot and, in fact, there was no Ann Giles baptism anywhere around the right time. I tried searching for baptisms at St Neot for just the first name, Ann, in case it was a case of an illegitimate birth where the mother subsequently married a Giles. No illegitimate Ann but there was an Ann Jewels baptised at the right time. Giles/Jewels? No, the vowel sounds are as different as Steer/Sture. Coincidentally, the mother of Ann Jewels had the surname Rundle which was the name of Ann Giles's marriage witnesses. As Ann married in Lostwithiel, I looked for any other Giles marriages there. There is a marriage 1836 for Margaret Giles and Robert Rescorla. On the 1851 census Margaret's birthplace is Cardinham c1820 but there is no baptism for Ann Giles at Cardinham (or anywhere else) around this date. However, there is a baptism at Cardinham 1818 for Margaret Rundle Jewel, parents Thomas and Marianne Jewel. And Robert and Margaret Rescorla baptised a son Thomas Jewells Rescorla at Lostwithiel. There is also a burial at Lostwithiel for a Thomas Jewells alias Giles (Margaret's father?). The age at death matches with the baptism of a brother of Ann's if their parents were Thomas Jewells and Elizabeth Rundle. Happy New Year, Joy --- Original message---- From : cjb@eng.cam.ac.uk Date : 02/01/2019 - 14:47 (GMT) To : devon@rootsweb.com Subject : [DEV] Re: Stear family of Kingsbridge In my transcription of the Aveton Gifford Parish Registers I added an index with people grouped by surname, and there are many examples of all the variants of Stear. see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agprindS.htm I came to the conclusion that Stear; Sture and Stert were distinct families but that Stear, Steer and Steere were indistinguishable.  I accept that my distinction is subjective, although the acid test is how the names sound.  My mother (who was a Stear) insisted that the Steers were a completely different family, but I have seen her father's own signature in both forms. It is fairly clear that spelling was very fluid.  There are examples in the AG marriage register, which for some periods had the actual signatures of bride, groom and their fathers, where father and son used different spellings of their surname in their signatures on the same document. The priest, or the parish clerk, or the census enumerator, would write down what they heard, especially if the family was not known to them. It probably is true that these names have a common origin, but surnames have been around since about the 13th century, 300 years before we have written records for common people, and well before most of the population was literate. All the AG entries can be found at http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/ag/pr/agpr2.htm (The commonest name in the village is Elliot, and I found at least 8 ways in which that was spelt!) Chris Burgoyne OPC for Aveton Gifford