I would like to know which newspapers would have been used for an obituary in Exmouth in November 2003 and if there was possibly a report of her hundredth birthday also in January 2001. Don't like to put her name on here as it is a bit to close to her death and not sure what family she had and wouldn't like to cause distress so if you can help please email me at my email address Thank you Althea

I saw one minister describe one such child as 'Love Child' now there was a charitable man. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Terryblackmore@blueyonder.co.uk Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 1:38 PM To: paul.hockie@talk21.com ; devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? We must not forget that often the word BASE is often used for illegitimate children. In most cases in Parish Registers, that I've seen, base born children are more than likely to be registered as (name) son/daughter of (females name). Without any mention of any word describing the child's status. Most children in Parish Registers rarely had more than one name until around 200 years ago. It was then down to who ever wrote the Parish Registers what information was entered. Not all Parish Registers were recorded by the Vicar. A close relation of mine Francis Blackmore wrote the Sheldon Parish Registers for 40 years. He was the Parish Clerk as well as principle witness at many a wedding during those 40 years he was parish clerk. I also note that what is entered in Parish Registers isn't always as was originally entered. I have seen instances of the word Bastard and under lined in Parish registers written by another hand. At what time that was written we may never know, it may well have been 100 years later. Unfortunately people can't resist adding often sarcastic remarks. In some instances ripping out pages to hide that one of their ancestors may have been illegitimate. Funny people is the human race, we have to many prejudices. Terry Blackmore OPC, Sheldon, Devon. ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to all for the interesting comments... So is it most likely that the child in question would be known as John Bailey or as John Tender or as John Tender Bailey? baptised 1718 The mother is called Gartrud does anyone have any clues how to find her? Best regards Graeme On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 13:46 +1100, Marie McCulloch wrote: > I saw one minister describe one such child as 'Love Child' now there was a > charitable man. > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terryblackmore@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 1:38 PM > To: paul.hockie@talk21.com ; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? > > We must not forget that often the word BASE is often used for illegitimate > children. In most cases in Parish Registers, that I've seen, base born > children are more than likely to be registered as (name) son/daughter of > (females name). Without any mention of any word describing the child's > status. Most children in Parish Registers rarely had more than one name > until around 200 years ago. It was then down to who ever wrote the Parish > Registers what information was entered. Not all Parish Registers were > recorded by the Vicar. A close relation of mine Francis Blackmore wrote the > Sheldon Parish Registers for 40 years. He was the Parish Clerk as well as > principle witness at many a wedding during those 40 years he was parish > clerk. I also note that what is entered in Parish Registers isn't always as > was originally entered. I have seen instances of the word Bastard and under > lined in Parish registers written by another hand. At what time that was > written we may never know, it may well have been 100 years later. > Unfortunately people can't resist adding often sarcastic remarks. In some > instances ripping out pages to hide that one of their ancestors may have > been illegitimate. Funny people is the human race, we have to many > prejudices. > > Terry Blackmore > OPC, Sheldon, Devon. > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I used to buy Regimental Plaques from my Army Units when I served back in the 1960s. I put photos of them on reunion sites for those now defunct Units. Since doing so I have been offered a lot of money for them as they are originals. I also brought Regimental ties and Cravats as well they are also worth money after 50 years. If your in the Armed forces now get your regimental plaques now. They as originals could be worth a lot of money in the future. In fact get two, you can always sell one if the price is right. Mine are far to valuable to me as memories for them to be sold. Terry Blackmore OPC, Sheldon, Devon

You could contact the Online Parish Clerk for Stoke Dameral he may have the information you want. Don't for get Baily could also be spelt Bayley/Bailey and every other possible way of spelling it. Name: John Tender Baily Gender: Male Christening Date: 17 Aug 1718 Christening Place: STOKE DAMEREL,DEVON,ENGLAND Birth Date: Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Gartrud Baily Terry Blackmore OPC, Sheldon, Devon. -----Original Message----- From: Graeme M Bailey Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 3:01 AM To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? Thanks to all for the interesting comments... So is it most likely that the child in question would be known as John Bailey or as John Tender or as John Tender Bailey? baptised 1718 The mother is called Gartrud does anyone have any clues how to find her? Best regards Graeme On Fri, 2013-11-29 at 13:46 +1100, Marie McCulloch wrote: > I saw one minister describe one such child as 'Love Child' now there was a > charitable man. > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terryblackmore@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 1:38 PM > To: paul.hockie@talk21.com ; devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? > > We must not forget that often the word BASE is often used for illegitimate > children. In most cases in Parish Registers, that I've seen, base born > children are more than likely to be registered as (name) son/daughter of > (females name). Without any mention of any word describing the child's > status. Most children in Parish Registers rarely had more than one name > until around 200 years ago. It was then down to who ever wrote the Parish > Registers what information was entered. Not all Parish Registers were > recorded by the Vicar. A close relation of mine Francis Blackmore wrote > the > Sheldon Parish Registers for 40 years. He was the Parish Clerk as well as > principle witness at many a wedding during those 40 years he was parish > clerk. I also note that what is entered in Parish Registers isn't always > as > was originally entered. I have seen instances of the word Bastard and > under > lined in Parish registers written by another hand. At what time that was > written we may never know, it may well have been 100 years later. > Unfortunately people can't resist adding often sarcastic remarks. In some > instances ripping out pages to hide that one of their ancestors may have > been illegitimate. Funny people is the human race, we have to many > prejudices. > > Terry Blackmore > OPC, Sheldon, Devon. > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, " and several soldiers " is what they would say here !!! in other words it could be anybody`s !!! how very judgemental for a priest !!! The end of the HMS Exeter story is that I have found from Plymouth Militaria the inspired compromise of painting the crest on a shield cut out of mdf .....half the price and weight of the metal or wood shields . Result !!!!! It will be on its way to Snoekies Shell Hole in Simonstown asap !!! life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: <paul.hockie@talk21.com> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? I would like to add that the use of "et populi" is interesting. Most entries I have seen use "illeg(itimate)" or even "bastard child". "Et Populi" means "and the people". Is the vicar saying that he does not believe Mr Tender was the father and perhaps she was the most popular girl in the village. Paul ________________________________ From: elizabeth howard <elizgh@btinternet.com> To: devon@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 17:07 Subject: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? Hi, you don`t say where he was bapt in 1718......and it may be there is an OPC for that village or the parish registers are online . There may be a note alongside his bapt . It was fairly commonplace for unmarried women to tag their babies with the father`s name , maybe to shame them into paying a contribution to their upkeep or as a reminder of promises not kept !!!! And sometimes the vicar or whoever bapt the baby would note the name of the father alongside the entry . I would rather like to check the name Tender before committing to believing it , as you say its not a common name anywhere which kind of indicates its a mistranscription . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme M Bailey" <graeme@baileynet.com.au> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? > Thanks James and Terry for assistance :-) > > Does anyone have any other examples of this sort > of entry? ie mother baptising baby with > father's surname? > I have heard of children being given the family > name by common usage but I haven't heard of of the mother > baptizing the baby with the father's name > when he's 'flown the coop' or 'shot through' > or whatever the expression was at that time... > > Has anyone got another example of the use of > this 'et populi' in another baptism that I could look at? > > > Searching Findmypast for surname 'Tender' > found only one record from Devon for the years 1538 - 2005 > and only 19 records for that surname total for the whole of UK > > so it seems to be a very uncommon name? > > > Forename(s):John > Surname:Tender > Year:1708 > Month:May > Day:7 > Father's Forename:William > Mother's Forename:Jane > Mother's Surname: > Birth Day: > Birth Month: > Birth Year: > Dedication:Thrushelton > Place:Plymouth > County:Devon > Page:Archive Ref:686/1 > Notes: > Record source: > Baptism Register - Transcripts Data provider:Plymouth & West Devon > Record Office Collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2013-11-28 at 13:36 +0000, James Phillips-Evans wrote: >> Hello Graeme >> >> Yes, I agree with Terry. It's one of the numerous euphemisms denoting an >> illegitimate child - a 'child of the people' with no legal father. >> However, I would imagine that his father may well have been a man named >> John Tender given that middle names (as we understand them) were >> virtually non-existent at that time. Have you looked into the parish >> chest records for the parish? There may be some sort of bastardy >> certificate. >> >> Best wishes >> >> James >> >> _________________________ >> James L. Phillips-Evans, LLB >> Greencourts Research >> > <...> > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We must not forget that often the word BASE is often used for illegitimate children. In most cases in Parish Registers, that I've seen, base born children are more than likely to be registered as (name) son/daughter of (females name). Without any mention of any word describing the child's status. Most children in Parish Registers rarely had more than one name until around 200 years ago. It was then down to who ever wrote the Parish Registers what information was entered. Not all Parish Registers were recorded by the Vicar. A close relation of mine Francis Blackmore wrote the Sheldon Parish Registers for 40 years. He was the Parish Clerk as well as principle witness at many a wedding during those 40 years he was parish clerk. I also note that what is entered in Parish Registers isn't always as was originally entered. I have seen instances of the word Bastard and under lined in Parish registers written by another hand. At what time that was written we may never know, it may well have been 100 years later. Unfortunately people can't resist adding often sarcastic remarks. In some instances ripping out pages to hide that one of their ancestors may have been illegitimate. Funny people is the human race, we have to many prejudices. Terry Blackmore OPC, Sheldon, Devon.

Thanks James and Terry for assistance :-) Does anyone have any other examples of this sort of entry? ie mother baptising baby with father's surname? I have heard of children being given the family name by common usage but I haven't heard of of the mother baptizing the baby with the father's name when he's 'flown the coop' or 'shot through' or whatever the expression was at that time... Has anyone got another example of the use of this 'et populi' in another baptism that I could look at? Searching Findmypast for surname 'Tender' found only one record from Devon for the years 1538 - 2005 and only 19 records for that surname total for the whole of UK so it seems to be a very uncommon name? Forename(s):John Surname:Tender Year:1708 Month:May Day:7 Father's Forename:William Mother's Forename:Jane Mother's Surname: Birth Day: Birth Month: Birth Year: Dedication:Thrushelton Place:Plymouth County:Devon Page:Archive Ref:686/1 Notes: Record source: Baptism Register - Transcripts Data provider:Plymouth & West Devon Record Office Collection On Thu, 2013-11-28 at 13:36 +0000, James Phillips-Evans wrote: > Hello Graeme > > Yes, I agree with Terry. It's one of the numerous euphemisms denoting an illegitimate child - a 'child of the people' with no legal father. However, I would imagine that his father may well have been a man named John Tender given that middle names (as we understand them) were virtually non-existent at that time. Have you looked into the parish chest records for the parish? There may be some sort of bastardy certificate. > > Best wishes > > James > > _________________________ > James L. Phillips-Evans, LLB > Greencourts Research > <...>

I too have examples of this usage. I think the names registered were more likely to be ones extracted by the vicar or rector from the mother. An Examination in Bastardy by the Poor Law Commissioners was a really high pressure thing and vicars had a lot of clout in the village to extract the information as to the father (even if it wasn't already common knowledge anyway). I suspect it was quite rare in rural parishes for an illegitimate child to be baptised without almost everyone being well aware of who the father was. After all, it was in the mother's self interest to name him as she would do rather better financially and socially to do so. Pointing the finger at the father was always a lot more likely to garner sympathy than just quietly accepting the shame herself. The gutter press may not have been around to publish the gory details but social pressure was just as intense then-not least because the child would become a charge on the rate payers otherwise for its entire minority, and the rate payers were your irate neighbours who would want to know who they were picking up the bill for who was keeping silent. Jon -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joy Langdon Sent: 28 November 2013 19:43 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? I have seen examples of this many times when looking through PRS and my own great grandmother's oldest sister was baptised Melinda Worden Lane on the 9th Sep 1855 shortly before her mother, Sarah Lane, married John Worden on the 23rd Sep 1855 so there is no doubt that she used Worden as the middle name because that was the father's surname.  My 3 x great grandmother's sister gave the middle name Phillips to two of her children before she married a Roger Phillips and had two further legitimate children with him.   Don't forget that spelling was not standardised at that time and the parish clerks did the best they could with what they heard.  Tender could also appear as Tander, Tinder, Tunder, Taunder or anything else you can think of that might sound like "tender" spoken with a Devon accent.  Also, Plymouth was a major port and it might even be an attempt at a foreign surname.   Joy ________________________________ From: Graeme M Bailey <graeme@baileynet.com.au> To: devon@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 16:05 Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record?   Thanks James and Terry for assistance :-) Does anyone have any other examples of this sort of entry? ie mother baptising baby with father's surname? I have heard of children being given the family name by common usage but I haven't heard of of the mother baptizing the baby with the father's name when he's 'flown the coop' or 'shot through' or whatever the expression was at that time... Has anyone got another example of the use of this 'et populi' in another baptism that I could look at? Searching Findmypast for surname 'Tender' found only one record from Devon for the years 1538 - 2005 and only 19 records for that surname total for the whole of UK so it seems to be a very uncommon name? Forename(s):John Surname:Tender Year:1708 Month:May Day:7 Father's Forename:William Mother's Forename:Jane Mother's Surname: Birth Day: Birth Month: Birth Year: Dedication:Thrushelton Place:Plymouth County:Devon Page:Archive Ref:686/1 Notes: Record source: Baptism Register - Transcripts Data provider:Plymouth & West Devon Record Office Collection ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings Can anyone help with the meaning of an entry in a baptism: John Tender ye son of Gartrud Bailey [et Populi] was baptized on ye 18th August 1718 1. Does this mean that a fellow whose surname was Tender had a child by Gartrud Bailey, but Mr Tender has not married her and she is having the boy baptized as John Tender, the son of Gartrud Bailey... or 2. The boy is being baptized by his mother, Gartrud Bailey and that his name is John Tender Bailey Can anyone help with the expression 'et Populi' in this context? Best regards Graeme

<<snipped>> "et populi" is interesting. Most entries I have seen use "illeg(itimate)" or even "bastard child". "Et Populi" means "and the people". <<snipped>> The SoG book, "My Ancestor was a Bastard" includes a whole page of synonyms for illegitimate, including "Filius Populi (child of the people)", "Puer Populi (child of the people)" and "son of the People" - also "Filius unius cujusque (child of everyone)", "Filius vulgi (child of the multitude)". So it's a consistent theme, albeit slightly differently expressed. Maybe it was supposed to convey, "child of the mother and the people"? Adrian B

I have seen examples of this many times when looking through PRS and my own great grandmother's oldest sister was baptised Melinda Worden Lane on the 9th Sep 1855 shortly before her mother, Sarah Lane, married John Worden on the 23rd Sep 1855 so there is no doubt that she used Worden as the middle name because that was the father's surname.  My 3 x great grandmother's sister gave the middle name Phillips to two of her children before she married a Roger Phillips and had two further legitimate children with him.   Don't forget that spelling was not standardised at that time and the parish clerks did the best they could with what they heard.  Tender could also appear as Tander, Tinder, Tunder, Taunder or anything else you can think of that might sound like "tender" spoken with a Devon accent.  Also, Plymouth was a major port and it might even be an attempt at a foreign surname.   Joy ________________________________ From: Graeme M Bailey <graeme@baileynet.com.au> To: devon@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 16:05 Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record?   Thanks James and Terry for assistance :-) Does anyone have any other examples of this sort of entry? ie mother baptising baby with father's surname? I have heard of children being given the family name by common usage but I haven't heard of of the mother baptizing the baby with the father's name when he's 'flown the coop' or 'shot through' or whatever the expression was at that time... Has anyone got another example of the use of this 'et populi' in another baptism that I could look at? Searching Findmypast for surname 'Tender' found only one record from Devon for the years 1538 - 2005 and only 19 records for that surname total for the whole of UK so it seems to be a very uncommon name? Forename(s):John Surname:Tender Year:1708 Month:May Day:7 Father's Forename:William Mother's Forename:Jane Mother's Surname: Birth Day: Birth Month: Birth Year: Dedication:Thrushelton Place:Plymouth County:Devon Page:Archive Ref:686/1 Notes: Record source: Baptism Register - Transcripts Data provider:Plymouth & West Devon Record Office Collection

I would like to add that the use of "et populi" is interesting. Most entries I have seen use "illeg(itimate)" or even "bastard child". "Et Populi" means "and the people". Is the vicar saying that he does not believe Mr Tender was the father and perhaps she was the most popular girl in the village. Paul ________________________________ From: elizabeth howard <elizgh@btinternet.com> To: devon@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 28 November 2013, 17:07 Subject: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record?                     Hi,  you don`t say where he was bapt in 1718......and it may be there is an OPC for that village or the parish registers are online .  There may be a note alongside his bapt .      It was fairly commonplace for unmarried women to tag their babies with the father`s name , maybe to shame them into paying a contribution to their upkeep or as a reminder of promises not kept  !!!!  And sometimes the vicar or whoever bapt the baby would note the name of the father alongside the entry .    I would rather like to check the name Tender before committing to believing it , as you say its not a common name anywhere which kind of indicates its a mistranscription . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme M Bailey" <graeme@baileynet.com.au> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? > Thanks James and Terry for assistance :-) > > Does anyone have any other examples of this sort > of entry? ie mother baptising baby with > father's surname? > I have heard of children being given the family > name by common usage but I haven't heard of of the mother > baptizing the baby with the father's name > when he's 'flown the coop' or 'shot through' > or whatever the expression was at that time... > > Has anyone got another example of the use of > this 'et populi' in another baptism that I could look at? > > > Searching Findmypast for surname 'Tender' > found only one record from Devon for the years 1538 - 2005 > and only 19 records for that surname total for the whole of UK > > so it seems to be a very uncommon name? > > > Forename(s):John > Surname:Tender > Year:1708 > Month:May > Day:7 > Father's Forename:William > Mother's Forename:Jane > Mother's Surname: > Birth Day: > Birth Month: > Birth Year: > Dedication:Thrushelton > Place:Plymouth > County:Devon > Page:Archive Ref:686/1 > Notes: > Record source: > Baptism Register - Transcripts Data provider:Plymouth & West Devon > Record Office Collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2013-11-28 at 13:36 +0000, James Phillips-Evans wrote: >> Hello Graeme >> >> Yes, I agree with Terry. It's one of the numerous euphemisms denoting an >> illegitimate child - a 'child of the people' with no legal father. >> However, I would imagine that his father may well have been a man named >> John Tender given that middle names (as we understand them) were >> virtually non-existent at that time. Have you looked into the parish >> chest records for the parish? There may be some sort of bastardy >> certificate. >> >> Best wishes >> >> James >> >> _________________________ >> James L. Phillips-Evans, LLB >> Greencourts Research >> > <...> > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, you don`t say where he was bapt in 1718......and it may be there is an OPC for that village or the parish registers are online . There may be a note alongside his bapt . It was fairly commonplace for unmarried women to tag their babies with the father`s name , maybe to shame them into paying a contribution to their upkeep or as a reminder of promises not kept !!!! And sometimes the vicar or whoever bapt the baby would note the name of the father alongside the entry . I would rather like to check the name Tender before committing to believing it , as you say its not a common name anywhere which kind of indicates its a mistranscription . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme M Bailey" <graeme@baileynet.com.au> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? > Thanks James and Terry for assistance :-) > > Does anyone have any other examples of this sort > of entry? ie mother baptising baby with > father's surname? > I have heard of children being given the family > name by common usage but I haven't heard of of the mother > baptizing the baby with the father's name > when he's 'flown the coop' or 'shot through' > or whatever the expression was at that time... > > Has anyone got another example of the use of > this 'et populi' in another baptism that I could look at? > > > Searching Findmypast for surname 'Tender' > found only one record from Devon for the years 1538 - 2005 > and only 19 records for that surname total for the whole of UK > > so it seems to be a very uncommon name? > > > Forename(s):John > Surname:Tender > Year:1708 > Month:May > Day:7 > Father's Forename:William > Mother's Forename:Jane > Mother's Surname: > Birth Day: > Birth Month: > Birth Year: > Dedication:Thrushelton > Place:Plymouth > County:Devon > Page:Archive Ref:686/1 > Notes: > Record source: > Baptism Register - Transcripts Data provider:Plymouth & West Devon > Record Office Collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2013-11-28 at 13:36 +0000, James Phillips-Evans wrote: >> Hello Graeme >> >> Yes, I agree with Terry. It's one of the numerous euphemisms denoting an >> illegitimate child - a 'child of the people' with no legal father. >> However, I would imagine that his father may well have been a man named >> John Tender given that middle names (as we understand them) were >> virtually non-existent at that time. Have you looked into the parish >> chest records for the parish? There may be some sort of bastardy >> certificate. >> >> Best wishes >> >> James >> >> _________________________ >> James L. Phillips-Evans, LLB >> Greencourts Research >> > <...> > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Elizabeth, There is this entry in the Northam baptisms (1807-1820 file) on Genuki: POWER Mary daughter of Mathew and Elizabeth baptised 22 Feb 1808 No sign of a burial though. Best regards. Mike Rendle On 28/11/2013 13:56, "Brian Randell" <brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk> wrote: >Hi Elizabeth: > >Appledore Church Baptisms on GENUKI start 1844, burials 1844. > >Cheers > >Brian > >On 28 Nov 2013, at 13:46, elizabeth howard <elizgh@btinternet.com> > wrote: > >> Oh well , thanks for this and I still can`t get too it, >> google chrome just keeps saying Oops !!!!!! There isn`t a bapt for >>a >> Mary Power between 1807 and 1810 is there or a burial for same >>1807-1810 . >> >> >> >> >> >> life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=///

Hi Graham: Thanks - I have no queries for them. It's just that I'd learned that the contact information I had for them on the relevant GENUKI/Devon parish pages needs to be updated (or removed), since it is for the now-deceased chairman. Cheers Brian On 28 Nov 2013, at 15:04, Graham Parnell <gjhp@btinternet.com> wrote: > Brian > > Yes it is still active but I know of no committee member that has an e-mail > address. I have a phone number/postal address for one of them which I can > send to you if you have an urgent query. > > Regards > > Graham Parnell > > Silverton LHS > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Brian Randell > Sent: 28 November 2013 14:44 > To: <devon@rootsweb.com> > Cc: Brian Randell > Subject: [DEV] The Five Parishes Local History Society > > > > Hi: > > > > Does anyone know whether this Society (covering Rewe, Stoke Canon, > Netherexe, Poltimore and Huxham) is still active, and if so what its contact > details are? > > > > Cheers > > > > Brian Randell > > > > School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 > 7RU > > EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 > > URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > > and > > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

Brian Yes it is still active but I know of no committee member that has an e-mail address. I have a phone number/postal address for one of them which I can send to you if you have an urgent query. Regards Graham Parnell Silverton LHS -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brian Randell Sent: 28 November 2013 14:44 To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Cc: Brian Randell Subject: [DEV] The Five Parishes Local History Society Hi: Does anyone know whether this Society (covering Rewe, Stoke Canon, Netherexe, Poltimore and Huxham) is still active, and if so what its contact details are? Cheers Brian Randell School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi: Does anyone know whether this Society (covering Rewe, Stoke Canon, Netherexe, Poltimore and Huxham) is still active, and if so what its contact details are? Cheers Brian Randell School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

Hi, there may be something in the A2A site , I should just put Bailey and 1715-1724 and Devon in the keyword boxes .......you may be lucky . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme M Bailey" <graeme@baileynet.com.au> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:02 AM Subject: [DEV] Meaning of "[et populi]" in baptism record? > Greetings > Can anyone help with the meaning of an entry in a baptism: > > John Tender ye son of Gartrud Bailey [et Populi] was baptized on ye 18th > August 1718 > > 1. Does this mean that a fellow whose surname was Tender had a child by > Gartrud Bailey, but Mr Tender has not married her and she is having the > boy baptized as John Tender, the son of Gartrud Bailey... > > or > > 2. The boy is being baptized by his mother, Gartrud Bailey and that his > name is John Tender Bailey > > Can anyone help with the expression 'et Populi' in this context? > > Best regards > Graeme > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

It just needed your magic boot Brian and now it works for me too ........!!!! and of course I had quite forgotten that Appledore starts so late .........I think I might have got an advanced case of senility for Christmas !!! life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=///