Many thanks Joy, I do have some of this information as I mentioned, however some researchers of the Germon clan will insist on adding William Babbacombe Germon to my two Williams, I wish it was that simple as I can find nothing to substantiate their claims, wish I could it would make life so easy. I need solid evidence before I commit to paper. I do believe my lot were probably the poorer side and so did not show up as much. My GG Grandfather the tailor also moved to Plymouth with John, continuing to be a tailor and barber. My Grandad always said his family came from Morton so at least that is solid evidence. I have looked at Rachel before but there seems to be a large gap, however now you have reminded me of her I will do the Brute force thing and hope for the best. Many thanks for your time. Regards Veronica. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Joy Langdon" <joy.langdon@btopenworld.com> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 1:21 AM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DEV] Moretnhampstead 1799-1830 > Hello Veronica, > > There is a William Germon, tailor, with wife Mary on the 1851 census at > Moretonhampstead who could be William and Mary Wotton. There is a Mary > Wotton baptism 1778 which fits quite well with the age of Mary Germon on > the census (only a year out). William has a birth year c1781 but the only > William Germon baptism at Moretonhampstead around this date is 26 Sep > 1779, father also William. William isn't on the 1861 census and there is > a burial in 1854 which gives the age 74 which would be a birth c1780 so > the 1779 baptism seems a reasonable match. > > There is a marriage of William German to Rachel Batten at Moretonhampstead > 1st May 1778. There is a burial of William Germon 1821, age 69 which > gives a birth date approx. 1752. There is a baptism of William Germon, > father Shadrach 11 Nov 1753. > > Regards, > > Joy > > > > ________________________________ > From: Vernmp <vernmp@tiscali.co.uk> > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, 3 January 2014, 13:09 > Subject: Re: [DEV] Moretnhampstead 1799-1830 > > > Thank you for the Treleaven Diaries very enjoyable. You would think it > easy to follow the line that belongs to your family tree as Morton is > quite > small (local to me growing up as I come from Plymouth). However no such > luck as my interest is the GERMON family, John Harvey Germon being my > Grandfather who moved to Plymouth and brought his family with him. All > the > boys became sailors in the Navy). My G.G. and GGGgrandfather were both > called William and one I believe was a Tailor married to Mary Wotton. As > the Germon tribe seems to be immense it I think I will have to visit the > actual church records. Should anyone know any little nugget of knowledge > that might help I would be grateful to follow it up. A healthy and Happy > New Year to you all. Veronica Germon-Kells. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "mick" <bareman@tpg.com.au> > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:39 AM > To: <devon@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [DEV] Moretnhampstead 1799-1830 > >> On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:53:34 +1100 >> "Mike Steer" <msteer@exemail.com.au> wrote: >> >> Mike I found this diary before I found the Devon List. >> >> There are a couple of entries relevant to my family that I thought could >> lead me down interesting paths but sadly one, William Howe killed aug >> 1799 >> aboard HMS Brunswick got lost in the Archives. another a different >> William >> Howe was a "Toll Troll" on the Dunsford Turnpike 1800-1803, couldn't find >> any further references. >> >> When I finish rebuilding my tree and merging it with my late father's >> work >> on his mothers line I'll get back to it. >> >> mick >>> Thanks Joy: Fascinating, Happy New Year, Mike. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >>> Behalf Of Joy Langdon >>> Sent: Sunday, 22 December 2013 1:31 AM >>> To: Devon@Rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [DEV] Moretnhampstead 1799-1830 >>> >>> I have just come across Silvester Treleaven's Diary on the >>> Moretonhampstead >>> History Society website and it is a fascinating glimpse of what life was >>> like in the Napoleonic War period with militia marching in and out of >>> town, >>> visits by the press gang etc. Well worth a look if you haven't already >>> found it and you might find a mention of an ancestor if they are from >>> Moretonhampstead (especially if they died during the period!) It also >>> mentions people and events in other places in Devon. It has some >>> amusing >>> incidents among the lists of deaths. >>> http://www.moretonhampstead.org.uk/texts/sources/trelchron.ghtml >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) >> and >> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> List archive for Devon can be found at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

The definitive reference on this must be Peter Higginbotham's excellent website at http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ Many of the buildings still survive and there is a comprehensive listing on this site. The Devon Heritage Centre holds many records which are not available online but from what I have seen these are about the administration rather than recording the individuals. Mike

 I read Jon's message about the workhouse and "Bedlam" and thought I would share what I found as it seems to show that at least in some Asylums the patients were given some care . A few years ago I found that my great great grandfather's brother Benjamin Duke was buried in Ford Park Cemetery Plymouth but had died in Wiltshire, I sent for his death certificate and found he had died in Fisherton Anger Lunatic Asylum. I was able to obtain a copy of his record from Wiltshire & Swindon Record Office. Benjamin lived in Plymouth and was chargeable to Plymouth, he was sent to Fisherton Anger Lunatic Asylum by a Justice of the Peace. Benjamin was a Smith & Bell Hanger and had been self harming and was suicidal. He was only there for 3 month before he died and his father Solomon Duke brought him back to Plymouth to be buried, of course I do not know the conditions he was kept in  but he does seem to have been cared for and continual interest taken in his condition, the following is part of what written about him. " He is of spare habit. Hair brown. Eyes grey. Melancholy expression. Physical exam. of heart and lungs reveals nothing abnormal. Tongue clean and moist. Pulse feeble - of moderate frequency - regular". He doesn't improve and "continues in a very depressed condition". 20th Feb 1872, "This patient remains in a very melancholy state, and is in feeble bodily health". 1st Mar 1872 "This man remains in a very meloncholy state. He is in very feeble bodily health and takes very little food. Ordered to have beef tea and a pint of beer daily. On the 6th March he is diagnosed with bronchitis, given medication, port wine, beef tea, and eggs as he couldn't take solid food. 9th Mar 1872 "Had an attack of Haemoptysis" His medicine was changed, he died,on the 12th. Several others on the page where his admission date and death are recorded returned home and one escaped. Marion

A vivid description of what life was like in Plymouth during the air raids: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/59/a1951959.shtml   Joy

This may answer some of your questions: http://www.bifd.org.uk/article_secondww_sept11.pdf --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Bev, FMP has 21 Feb 1783, Elizabeth dau of Peter and Mary , bapt Charles Plymouth. from the transcript of the Bapt register- Plymouth and W Devon RO collection. life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hockie" <paul.hockie@talk21.com> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] Elizabeth DOBLE c 1783 > Bev, > > You need to visit an LDS Family History Library or take out a > subscription/credit for Findmypast. > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of B. Edmonds > Sent: 04 January 2014 00:43 > To: DEVON@rootsweb.com > Subject: [DEV] Elizabeth DOBLE c 1783 > > Morning, > > Elizabeth DOBLE according to Famsearch is bapt/born 1783. I cannot access > this entry. Can anyone out there see who her parents are please with > dates. > > Thanks heaps. > > Bev > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Susan, I have no idea, she has a brother or father Edward, that is all I know. She was 38 when she died in 1822 at Totnes. But I will look at any date from 1774 -1785 Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Young" <zandara@cogeco.ca> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 1:59 PM To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [DEV] Elizabeth DOBLE c 1783 > Hi Bev, > > What parish? I have DOBLE stemming from Tristram DOBLE in > Ashwater/Beaworthy area. > > Sincerely, > Susan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> > To: <DEVON@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 7:43 PM > Subject: [DEV] Elizabeth DOBLE c 1783 > > >> Morning, >> >> Elizabeth DOBLE according to Famsearch is bapt/born 1783. I cannot access >> this entry. Can anyone out there see who her parents are please with >> dates. >> >> Thanks heaps. >> >> Bev >> >> > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6474 - Release Date: 01/03/14 >

Hi Jon, its a good thing I had had my lunch , reading about the lunatics !!!! I posted this small snippet from our local workhouse minute book because Bev Edmonds had asked about the chargeability of people to the workhouse at Totnes, and it was quite a complicated system. I was anzious that she and others could see how desperate some families were but also what the alternatives were ., and how they were paid for to be in the workhouse. life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Frayne" <jonfrayne@btinternet.com> To: <devon@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [DEV] WORKHOUSE > They were not "early days"; the Poor Law had existed since 1598. I judge > not > by current standards but from reading some of the numerous reports and > classic fiction regarding the workhouses. "Deserving poor" was a purely > subjective and highly condescending judgement passed on poor people by the > social elite. This was not an early form of pension; people would starve > to > death in their homes rather than apply to enter as they were such grim > places. They did offer rudimentary hospital facilities and were the only > such places available to the poor. Outdoor poor relief was abolished in > 1832, as being too expensive, when the workhouses were established. Any > earlier outdoor relief was in no way akin to a tax credit; it was designed > to keep people from keeling over dead from starvation in the streets, > only. > By law, poor law apprenticeships were for a maximum of 14 and later 17 > years; ordinary ones for a maximum of 7 years. Poor Law apprentices were > almost always to be trained in 'husbandry' if a boy (becoming an > agricultural labourer) after 17 years of free labour. Not much of a career > prospect for the future. Girls were to be trained in 'housewifery'; same > result as for boys really. The poor law apprentices schemes were designed > to > take children off the workhouse's books and indeed a clause to that effect > was always included in their indentures-the contract between the poor law > commissioners and the employer (witnessed by magistrates). Some > agricultural > labourers did indeed enter the workhouse for brief periods, but that > reflects the fact that in the autumn they were sometimes laid off by > unscrupulous farmers when labour wasn't needed and left to enter the > workhouse or starve (read Hardy). > > The Ministry of Health wasn't even established until 1919. The minimal > welfare state of Lloyd George had been established by then so attitudes > were > vastly different by this point as people had accepted how abysmal the > workhouse system was; they continues to exist for their hospital > facilities > until 1948. The death rates in workhouses were always much higher than on > the streets and some have said that this was kept deliberately so. > Workhouses were designed to be cheaper alternatives to the out-relief (or > Speenhamland System) and were invented to save money-read the > Parliamentary > debates for their explicit statements to this effect! > > Bedlam was the most horrendous place where lunatics (sic) were kept > chained > to the walls in their own excrement and then exhibited to the public for a > fee as curiosities. There was no attempt at treatment and no idea how to > do > so. Punishment (for misbehaviour, which was linked to mental illness) was > corporal and often stated to be a whipping. > > I do not judge by current standards but it is precisely because it is so > easy to interpret what was done through the lens of a modern welfare state > that it needs to be born in mind how abysmal the workhouses were, and > assessed as such by contemporaries. > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Paul Hockie > Sent: 04 January 2014 13:04 > To: devon@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [DEV] WORKHOUSE > > While not wishing to claim that workhouses were ideal, these were early > days > and we should not judge by current standards. As the century continued the > concept of the deserving poor developed as an early form of pension, > workhouses offered hospital facilities and the majority receiving parish > relief in cities were out paupers receiving what we would now call "tax > credit". The apprentice scheme was not only to reduce costs but also gave > a > child an opportunity for future employment that would not otherwise exist. > I have seen admission books that reveal in agricultural areas people would > come into the workhouse for a few weeks between the seasonal harvests as > conditions in the workhouse were better than outside - at least you were > sheltered and fed.. Responsibility for monitoring workhouses was given the > Ministry of Health. Correspondence in the MH series in the National > Archives > includes letters from "customers" complaining about failure to meet > minimum > standards or failure to observe "human rights". These were not dismissed > out > of hand and the Ministry could take action against errant Unions that did > not change their ways. > I would also add that a number of Dickens biographers believe Dickens was > not above adding a bit of spin to sell a book. His experiences as a child > had made his top priority the avoidance of poverty for him and his family. > > Similarly the treatment of the "insane" evolved from Bedlam to something > akin to sheltered accommodation. > > Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of elizabeth howard > Sent: 04 January 2014 10:47 > To: DEVON > Subject: [DEV] WORKHOUSE > > Hi, this tiny entry in the minutes of our local > workhouse might clarify for everyone how things happened. > "13th Dec 1838. Moved an application to be made to the > Poor Law Commissioners for an authority to apprentice out to shoemakers or > tailors the following persons , William Wellam, aged 19 an orphan and a > dwarf belonging to the parish of Denver . Henry Tingay aged 13 father > dead > mother dying of consumption belonging to the parish of Stoke Ferry and > Samuel Page aged 13 subject to fits father dead belonging to the parish of > Watlington. > Moved by Mr Press for permission to take into the > workhouse for 3 months , two of the children of Robert Bushel of West > Dereham a pauper at 12/- per week and at home family consists of himself, > his wife, and 6 children oldest 9 years of age the wife expecting to be > confined any day . Mr Press stated that he believed the family were > starving > and that they would not be able to get anyone to assist them in her > confinement for want of means. " > It makes grim reading but even grimmer to live through > . " Resolved that the Poor in the workhouse have roast beef and plumb > pudding on Christmas Day ." > > > > > > life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( > http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS > (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

They were not "early days"; the Poor Law had existed since 1598. I judge not by current standards but from reading some of the numerous reports and classic fiction regarding the workhouses. "Deserving poor" was a purely subjective and highly condescending judgement passed on poor people by the social elite. This was not an early form of pension; people would starve to death in their homes rather than apply to enter as they were such grim places. They did offer rudimentary hospital facilities and were the only such places available to the poor. Outdoor poor relief was abolished in 1832, as being too expensive, when the workhouses were established. Any earlier outdoor relief was in no way akin to a tax credit; it was designed to keep people from keeling over dead from starvation in the streets, only. By law, poor law apprenticeships were for a maximum of 14 and later 17 years; ordinary ones for a maximum of 7 years. Poor Law apprentices were almost always to be trained in 'husbandry' if a boy (becoming an agricultural labourer) after 17 years of free labour. Not much of a career prospect for the future. Girls were to be trained in 'housewifery'; same result as for boys really. The poor law apprentices schemes were designed to take children off the workhouse's books and indeed a clause to that effect was always included in their indentures-the contract between the poor law commissioners and the employer (witnessed by magistrates). Some agricultural labourers did indeed enter the workhouse for brief periods, but that reflects the fact that in the autumn they were sometimes laid off by unscrupulous farmers when labour wasn't needed and left to enter the workhouse or starve (read Hardy). The Ministry of Health wasn't even established until 1919. The minimal welfare state of Lloyd George had been established by then so attitudes were vastly different by this point as people had accepted how abysmal the workhouse system was; they continues to exist for their hospital facilities until 1948. The death rates in workhouses were always much higher than on the streets and some have said that this was kept deliberately so. Workhouses were designed to be cheaper alternatives to the out-relief (or Speenhamland System) and were invented to save money-read the Parliamentary debates for their explicit statements to this effect! Bedlam was the most horrendous place where lunatics (sic) were kept chained to the walls in their own excrement and then exhibited to the public for a fee as curiosities. There was no attempt at treatment and no idea how to do so. Punishment (for misbehaviour, which was linked to mental illness) was corporal and often stated to be a whipping. I do not judge by current standards but it is precisely because it is so easy to interpret what was done through the lens of a modern welfare state that it needs to be born in mind how abysmal the workhouses were, and assessed as such by contemporaries. Jon -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hockie Sent: 04 January 2014 13:04 To: devon@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DEV] WORKHOUSE While not wishing to claim that workhouses were ideal, these were early days and we should not judge by current standards. As the century continued the concept of the deserving poor developed as an early form of pension, workhouses offered hospital facilities and the majority receiving parish relief in cities were out paupers receiving what we would now call "tax credit". The apprentice scheme was not only to reduce costs but also gave a child an opportunity for future employment that would not otherwise exist. I have seen admission books that reveal in agricultural areas people would come into the workhouse for a few weeks between the seasonal harvests as conditions in the workhouse were better than outside - at least you were sheltered and fed.. Responsibility for monitoring workhouses was given the Ministry of Health. Correspondence in the MH series in the National Archives includes letters from "customers" complaining about failure to meet minimum standards or failure to observe "human rights". These were not dismissed out of hand and the Ministry could take action against errant Unions that did not change their ways. I would also add that a number of Dickens biographers believe Dickens was not above adding a bit of spin to sell a book. His experiences as a child had made his top priority the avoidance of poverty for him and his family. Similarly the treatment of the "insane" evolved from Bedlam to something akin to sheltered accommodation. Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of elizabeth howard Sent: 04 January 2014 10:47 To: DEVON Subject: [DEV] WORKHOUSE Hi, this tiny entry in the minutes of our local workhouse might clarify for everyone how things happened. "13th Dec 1838. Moved an application to be made to the Poor Law Commissioners for an authority to apprentice out to shoemakers or tailors the following persons , William Wellam, aged 19 an orphan and a dwarf belonging to the parish of Denver . Henry Tingay aged 13 father dead mother dying of consumption belonging to the parish of Stoke Ferry and Samuel Page aged 13 subject to fits father dead belonging to the parish of Watlington. Moved by Mr Press for permission to take into the workhouse for 3 months , two of the children of Robert Bushel of West Dereham a pauper at 12/- per week and at home family consists of himself, his wife, and 6 children oldest 9 years of age the wife expecting to be confined any day . Mr Press stated that he believed the family were starving and that they would not be able to get anyone to assist them in her confinement for want of means. " It makes grim reading but even grimmer to live through . " Resolved that the Poor in the workhouse have roast beef and plumb pudding on Christmas Day ." life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Adele Free BDM has a Birth of a Mary Margaret Burgoyne Mar Qtr 1884 Stratton Vol 5c Page 5 Stratton is in Cornwall Hi If he has his actual birth name ... search FreeBDM for a Burgoyne with a Burgoyne mother in the area that is possible for the birth time period, remembering that the places given are registration districts and you need to click on the link to get a list of towns etc. Magella could well have been a confirmation name. Happy searching. Nothing like a puzzle to be working on :) Susan > On 4/01/2014 4:30 AM, Adele Pentony-Graham wrote: >> Thank you everyone, I have asked my sister for more information, she has >> no >> idea about doing research. .grr.. I said dates. Are most important, no >> good >> 80 years or more for the age of the person you have met, we want more >> details.. dob. He could be saying 80 and mean 90! She replied, will sort >> it >> out, so will see what today comes! All I have in all honesty is a person >> in >> Auckland NZ who is looking for his real mother.. All I have are the names >> I >> mentioned. Margaret Magella BURGOYNE. This enquirer is in his 80s.. >> adopted out, why, as he remembers a big house and visitors, lady >> visitors.. >> he was at school in Wareham or nearby, but for some reason Devon comes >> up, I >> know Wareham is Dorset. seems his adopted parents could have been in >> service.. I guess my sister doesn't want to upset him to much by asking >> more, but I said it's the only way to get looking! I have challenges >> over >> the years and come up trumps.. He was supposed to have been a boys >> school. >> Fee paying.. or the story goes. he was more than happy with the people >> who >> adopted him.. loved his adopted mother, which is lovely to learn.. >> Magella >> to me sounds Spanish, the middle name.. now the Margaret side, Now from >> my >> working out this gentleman would have been born about 1933. >> >> >> >> I will keep you posted thanks.. >> >> >> >> Adele >> >> Clareville NZ >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) >> and >> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> List archive for Devon can be found at >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the DEVON list administrator, send an email to > DEVON-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the DEVON mailing list, send an email to > DEVON@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEVON-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of DEVON Digest, Vol 9, Issue 12 > ************************************ > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6974 - Release Date: 01/03/14 > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6974 - Release Date: 01/03/14

Bev, You need to visit an LDS Family History Library or take out a subscription/credit for Findmypast. Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of B. Edmonds Sent: 04 January 2014 00:43 To: DEVON@rootsweb.com Subject: [DEV] Elizabeth DOBLE c 1783 Morning, Elizabeth DOBLE according to Famsearch is bapt/born 1783. I cannot access this entry. Can anyone out there see who her parents are please with dates. Thanks heaps. Bev ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

While not wishing to claim that workhouses were ideal, these were early days and we should not judge by current standards. As the century continued the concept of the deserving poor developed as an early form of pension, workhouses offered hospital facilities and the majority receiving parish relief in cities were out paupers receiving what we would now call "tax credit". The apprentice scheme was not only to reduce costs but also gave a child an opportunity for future employment that would not otherwise exist. I have seen admission books that reveal in agricultural areas people would come into the workhouse for a few weeks between the seasonal harvests as conditions in the workhouse were better than outside - at least you were sheltered and fed.. Responsibility for monitoring workhouses was given the Ministry of Health. Correspondence in the MH series in the National Archives includes letters from "customers" complaining about failure to meet minimum standards or failure to observe "human rights". These were not dismissed out of hand and the Ministry could take action against errant Unions that did not change their ways. I would also add that a number of Dickens biographers believe Dickens was not above adding a bit of spin to sell a book. His experiences as a child had made his top priority the avoidance of poverty for him and his family. Similarly the treatment of the "insane" evolved from Bedlam to something akin to sheltered accommodation. Paul -----Original Message----- From: devon-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:devon-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of elizabeth howard Sent: 04 January 2014 10:47 To: DEVON Subject: [DEV] WORKHOUSE Hi, this tiny entry in the minutes of our local workhouse might clarify for everyone how things happened. "13th Dec 1838. Moved an application to be made to the Poor Law Commissioners for an authority to apprentice out to shoemakers or tailors the following persons , William Wellam, aged 19 an orphan and a dwarf belonging to the parish of Denver . Henry Tingay aged 13 father dead mother dying of consumption belonging to the parish of Stoke Ferry and Samuel Page aged 13 subject to fits father dead belonging to the parish of Watlington. Moved by Mr Press for permission to take into the workhouse for 3 months , two of the children of Robert Bushel of West Dereham a pauper at 12/- per week and at home family consists of himself, his wife, and 6 children oldest 9 years of age the wife expecting to be confined any day . Mr Press stated that he believed the family were starving and that they would not be able to get anyone to assist them in her confinement for want of means. " It makes grim reading but even grimmer to live through . " Resolved that the Poor in the workhouse have roast beef and plumb pudding on Christmas Day ." life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a , Margaret M BURGOYNE died th 4th qtr of 1966 @ Ormskirk, Lancashire, age 80 On 1/3/2014 12:30 PM, Adele Pentony-Graham wrote: > Margaret Magella

On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 01:00:41 +0000 (GMT) sly211@btinternet.com wrote: > Hi Listers > > Can I just say thank you to everyone who has taken the trouble to reply to my query. Not only have I been given access to photographs of WILLIAM SLY, but also of his public house, and details of the air raid in which he was killed > > I have looked at almost all of the websites and I could not believe that first, I missed the CWGC site for civilian war deaths, and second, that I didn't think to check out the Bitterne connection > > I am still slightly surprised that the death certificate was so vague, and that it did not specify the injuries as a normal post mortem would today. Perhaps it's because there were too many deaths for the authorities to do any more than record them in terms of numbers, especially when there were relatives who could take responsibility for the burial > > Thanks again everyone. I have learned so much more than I could ever have expected. I hope that this discussion has helped other people who might have come across a similar mystery. In order not to take up any more time on a subject that now seems to have been answered satisfactorily, I'll just shut up now! > > John Sly > John the bodies of bomb victims seldom are in a suitable condition to perform an autopsy and in times of conflict especially the euphemism is all that is required for legal purposes and a more complete description would usually increase the familys grief. mick

With regards the parishes St Marychurch, Coffinswell and Kingskerswell. For research purposes it may be of use to know that the latter two parishes were until the early 1830s both part of the parish of St.Marychurch. Few people seem to know that fact. Both Kingskerswell and Coffinswell have medieval churches which acted as chapels of ease because of their distance from the parish church at St Marychurch. The first vicar at Kingskerwell was Aaron Neck who had been the Perpetual Curate at Kingskerswell previous to the creation of the parish. Aaron Neck also had marriage connections to the Duders. Dennis Bramble.

I have had a reply thank you Trudy, sadly this one is not mine. Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "B. Edmonds" <beverley@yourisp.com.au> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:43 AM To: <DEVON@rootsweb.com> Subject: Elizabeth DOBLE c 1783 > Morning, > > Elizabeth DOBLE according to Famsearch is bapt/born 1783. I cannot access > this entry. Can anyone out there see who her parents are please with > dates. > > Thanks heaps. > > Bev

What is the gentleman's full name? That should be the best help to find his birth mother. Betty On 1/3/2014 12:30 PM, Adele Pentony-Graham wrote: > Thank you everyone, I have asked my sister for more information, she has no > idea about doing research. .grr.. I said dates. Are most important, no good > 80 years or more for the age of the person you have met, we want more > details.. dob. He could be saying 80 and mean 90! She replied, will sort it > out, so will see what today comes! All I have in all honesty is a person in > Auckland NZ who is looking for his real mother.. All I have are the names I > mentioned. Margaret Magella BURGOYNE. This enquirer is in his 80s.. > adopted out, why, as he remembers a big house and visitors, lady visitors.. > he was at school in Wareham or nearby, but for some reason Devon comes up, I > know Wareham is Dorset. seems his adopted parents could have been in > service.. I guess my sister doesn't want to upset him to much by asking > more, but I said it's the only way to get looking! I have challenges over > the years and come up trumps.. He was supposed to have been a boys school. > Fee paying.. or the story goes. he was more than happy with the people who > adopted him.. loved his adopted mother, which is lovely to learn.. Magella > to me sounds Spanish, the middle name.. now the Margaret side, Now from my > working out this gentleman would have been born about 1933. > > > > I will keep you posted thanks.. > > > > Adele > > Clareville NZ > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Adele, I have replied off list with some attachments. Best regards, Liz Devon FHS Number 16139

Hi If he has his actual birth name ... search FreeBDM for a Burgoyne with a Burgoyne mother in the area that is possible for the birth time period, remembering that the places given are registration districts and you need to click on the link to get a list of towns etc. Magella could well have been a confirmation name. Happy searching. Nothing like a puzzle to be working on :) Susan On 4/01/2014 4:30 AM, Adele Pentony-Graham wrote: > Thank you everyone, I have asked my sister for more information, she has no > idea about doing research. .grr.. I said dates. Are most important, no good > 80 years or more for the age of the person you have met, we want more > details.. dob. He could be saying 80 and mean 90! She replied, will sort it > out, so will see what today comes! All I have in all honesty is a person in > Auckland NZ who is looking for his real mother.. All I have are the names I > mentioned. Margaret Magella BURGOYNE. This enquirer is in his 80s.. > adopted out, why, as he remembers a big house and visitors, lady visitors.. > he was at school in Wareham or nearby, but for some reason Devon comes up, I > know Wareham is Dorset. seems his adopted parents could have been in > service.. I guess my sister doesn't want to upset him to much by asking > more, but I said it's the only way to get looking! I have challenges over > the years and come up trumps.. He was supposed to have been a boys school. > Fee paying.. or the story goes. he was more than happy with the people who > adopted him.. loved his adopted mother, which is lovely to learn.. Magella > to me sounds Spanish, the middle name.. now the Margaret side, Now from my > working out this gentleman would have been born about 1933. > > > > I will keep you posted thanks.. > > > > Adele > > Clareville NZ > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > ( http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/ ) > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/DEVON/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEVON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi, this tiny entry in the minutes of our local workhouse might clarify for everyone how things happened. "13th Dec 1838. Moved an application to be made to the Poor Law Commissioners for an authority to apprentice out to shoemakers or tailors the following persons , William Wellam, aged 19 an orphan and a dwarf belonging to the parish of Denver . Henry Tingay aged 13 father dead mother dying of consumption belonging to the parish of Stoke Ferry and Samuel Page aged 13 subject to fits father dead belonging to the parish of Watlington. Moved by Mr Press for permission to take into the workhouse for 3 months , two of the children of Robert Bushel of West Dereham a pauper at 12/- per week and at home family consists of himself, his wife, and 6 children oldest 9 years of age the wife expecting to be confined any day . Mr Press stated that he believed the family were starving and that they would not be able to get anyone to assist them in her confinement for want of means. " It makes grim reading but even grimmer to live through . " Resolved that the Poor in the workhouse have roast beef and plumb pudding on Christmas Day ." life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=///