My mother's Pincombe line goes back to 1485 at North Molton and I manage the Pincombe one name study plus the yDNA study at FT DNA. We have had good luck with the yDNA study. My fourth cousin tested his yDNA and it is a match with a known 5th cousin proving our specific line back to John Pincombe and Mary Charlie who married 8 Nov 1767 at Bishops Nympton. Another tester has a known Pincombe line back to Barnstaple/Bideford and these lines are separated from the North Molton line back to the marriage of William Pincombe and Emotte Snow (circa 1560s). A fourth tester has US Ancestry back into the early 1700s and he too matches this line. So an interesting project although with one difficulty, the American Pinkham family descendants of the New Hampshire Pinkham family (emigrated in the 1660s) does not match. The original researchers had linked these two families. The autosomal DNA in Devon has also proven to be interesting with links to my 3rd, 4th and 5th cousins at the three big testing companies (FT DNA, Ancestry and 23 and Me). Elizabeth (Blake) Kipp BA PLCGS Website: http://www.kipp-blake-families.ca/elizabethmain.htm Blog: http://kippeeb.blogspot.ca/ Guild of One Name Studies #4600 (Blake, Pincombe) The Surname Society #1004 (Bedard, Dumoulin, Gregoire, Prevost, Blake, Pincombe, Knight, Rawlings, Cheatle, Butt, Buller, Taylor, Gray, Farmer, Lywood, Rew, Routledge, Welch, Coleman, Lambden, Arnold, Peck, Rowcliffe, Siderfin, Cobb, Beard)

Hi Len - It looks like Tim is on the right track. You have probably found this Okehampton auctioneer, his wife and their two eldest children in the 1841 census where he has a rounded down age of 30, implying birth between 1805 and 1811 (so quite possibly 1810 in Chagford). One would expect to find press advertisements by auctioneers and sure enough a free search of FMP/BNA finds a few for property auctions by William NOSWORTHY at the White Hart in Okehampton, and elsewhere, between September 1842 and November 1845, prior to your tentative emigration year of 1846. But then there is another auctioneer of that name selling a public house in Shaldon in October 1859, so perhaps there were indeed two of them, though I do not find another after 1841. No NOSWORTHY is listed in White's 1851 Directory of Okehampton (GENUKI). FMP has the baptism of John NOSWORTHY in 1844, that of Elizabeth Drewe NOSWORTHY in 1841 and her burial in 1843, and the baptism of Elizabeth Jane NOSWORTHY in 1846, all events at Okehampton. I don't have a paid FMP so cannot view the actual PR images, but expect John and Elizabeth Jane to be children of William and Jane.. FamilySearch has the 1874 marriage of John NOSWORTHY and Catherine Howard GARDNER at Campbelltown, SA, father's name William NOSWORTHY, and Trove has several NOSWORTHY events including John's death in 1928: Chronicle (Adelaide, SA : 1895 - 1954) Saturday 22 December 1928 p 20 Mr. John Nosworthy died at his residence, York-street, Kensington, on Monday morning. He was 85 years of age, and was born in Okehampton http://trove.nla.gov.au/list?id=23782 so this must be the John NOSWORTHY born Okehampton in Q1 1844 (FamilySearch, FreeBMD, etc). Searching Ancestry for that John NOSWORTHY yields a public tree of the Hoskinson Family (apparently his descendents) which sources the 1846/7 emigration of this family as: PRINCESS ROYAL 1847 from London 5 - 11 1846 via Plymouth 15/11/1846 arrived Port Adelaide on 16-03-1847 NOSWORTHY, William and wife and 4 children [transcription, not image] http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1847PrincessRoyal-Passengers.htm Another related website gave no further information except that the actual passenger list had not yet been found. (Ignore the tree owner's erroneous term "Transportation Vessel" - this was a regular emigrant ship and the NOSWORTHY family were certainly not felons!) For a lengthy description of this vessel, see http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1847PrincessRoyal-Report.gif I recall reading that article before, perhaps in connection with the Plymouth Emigration Depot discussed on this list a couple of years ago http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/devon/2014-03/1394965805 So the four emigrant children were evidently the three sons, William George, George Drew and John, and the infant daughter Elizabeth Jane. That Hoskinson tree looks a bit suspect: William born ca 1811 has 10 siblings, all born to an unidentified NOSWORTHY father. John appears with split personalities in two other Ancestry trees. Ancestry has a several other public trees for other descendents of William and Jane NOSWORTHY, which I have not investigated. Regards - Martin Beavis -----Original Message----- From: Tim Treeby (Genealogy)via Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 1:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DEV] Nosworthy Hi Len, FindMyPast (with images) have the following baptisms to William and Jane, all in Okehampton 1836 - William George - William given as Innkeeper 1839 - George Drew - William given as Innkeeper 1841 - Elizabeth Drew - William given as Auctioneer? Probable Marriage 1834 - Exeter St Mary Arches, between William Nosworthy and Elizabeth Drew Quite a few possibility's for William's baptism, the two most likely look to be 1810 - Chagford 1816 - Exeter, St Sidwell But without attempting to trace every William Nosworthy, then could get hard as you don't know his place of Birth. Tim Treeby DFHS 13926. On 10/06/2016 11:47, Len Heyward via wrote: > Hi Listers; > > For some time now I have been attempting to track down a William > NOSWORTHY, born c1811, in Devon. William emigrated c1846 to South > Australia. He had married Jane (born c1805) presumably sometime before > 1846, and together with at least two of his three sons, sailed for > Australia. William died in 1872 at Bald Hills, South Australia. Jane > died in 1879, also at Bald Hills. > > I have searched my NOSWORTHY database and cannot locate a match for > William. Have also tried the other spelling variants of NOSWORTHY without > success. The info known for the three sons may provide some clues. > > 1) William George NOSWORTHY, born c1837, died 1912 Bald Hills, South > Australia > > 2) George Drew NOSWORTHY, born 1838 Okehampton, Devon, died 1907 > Lucindale, South Australia. George had his 8th. birthday on the ship on > the way to Australia. Unfortunately I don't have the ship's name. > > 3) John NOSWORTHY, married Catherine GARDNER, and had at least 7 children. > > William has been the stumbling block to linking this family with the major > Devon NOSWORTHY family lines. I have considered that perhaps William was > not his first name, but instead the name he was known by (perhaps a middle > name). However, as his first son was also named William, seems to provide > supporting evidence that William was probably his correct name. > > The most often first name used in the NOSWORTHY family through the years > was by far, John. The second was definitely William. This makes the task > even more difficult! > > If there is anyone on the list who could possibly assist, or provide > lookups for Okehamption, it would be great to hear from you. > > Len Heyward ----------------------------

Hi Terry; My sentiments entirely. Regards Len Heyward -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of blackmore terry via Sent: 11 June, 2016 7:58 AM To: devon Subject: [DEV] DNA testing One thing I've noticed with regard to DNA testing, while it does prove that there is a link between two people with known DNA, there is one flaw. Unless we dig up all known named graves in say Devon and take DNA samples we are unlikely to ever know exactly who in ancient Devon we could actually be descended from. DNA will show exactly where the generations join, but not who they were. To me there is only one possible way of knowing our ancestory is down the female line. Only one person can be the mother of a child, but any male can be the father. This still depends on if the information we have is of the correct mother. Unless we invent time travel, sorting out our family pedigrees will always be one of a lot of guess work. ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would agree with this, it did occur to me when I took part in a DNA project that I came from a long line of dutiful wives! My own experience with Y chromosome testing - for which, of course, my brother had to provide the sample, is that the results did indeed closely follow the 'paper trail' insofar as it was known. It was part of the Anthony Hoskins project organised among the known descendants of a chap who emigrated to America in 1650 from Dorset. I knew that my Devon Hoskins ancestors also came, in the late 16th century, from Dorset, where they were known to have settled by the reign of Henry V, although where they came from before that was a matter of conjecture. My uncle, W G Hoskins had discounted a theory put forward that the family were connected to one known to have originated in Herefordshire, but the DNA showed strong evidence that this was indeed the case, that the family did descend from one or more Norman ancestors who had settled in the Welsh Marches, and that family traditions chime both with known migration patterns and with the DNA evidence. Oddly enough, I proved to be more closely related to the American descendants of Anthony Hoskins than I was to the English Hoskins descended from those who remained in Dorset. Of course, when you get back far enough, the surname becomes somewhat irrelevant, as before the general usage of surnames, several descendants of a common ancestor would have acquired different surnames anyway, regardless of their actual paternity. Angela in Exmouth ----Original message---- >From : [email protected] Date : 10/06/2016 - 22:57 (GMTDT) To : [email protected] Subject : [DEV] DNA testing One thing I've noticed with regard to DNA testing, while it does prove that there is a link between two people with known DNA, there is one flaw. Unless we dig up all known named graves in say Devon and take DNA samples we are unlikely to ever know exactly who in ancient Devon we could actually be descended from. DNA will show exactly where the generations join, but not who they were. To me there is only one possible way of knowing our ancestory is down the female line. Only one person can be the mother of a child, but any male can be the father. This still depends on if the information we have is of the correct mother. Unless we invent time travel, sorting out our family pedigrees will always be one of a lot of guess work. ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Totally agree Mike, I did an autosomal DNA test with FTDNA a few months ago and have so far had two successful and verifiable results confirming my ancestry in Devon on two different branches both being on my paternal side. One which confirms a connection back in the 1650s to a common ancestor with a 40% compatibility only, but he like me had a wide ranging tree and another to a one name study via a common ancestor in another name, but all work in progress. I have worked from verifiable sources the whole 16 years of my research and in the majority of cases have numerous different sources to back up my closest ancestors. The answer to finding matches in my humble opinion is to follow both female and male lines and add in siblings and their spouses and children, etc and their wider families for as far as it is feasible or you wish to do. I shall use whatever sources, including DNA which help me 'nail' down my ancestors wherever they are. Jean Hodges -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Fisher via Sent: 11 June 2016 09:57 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DEV] DNA testing That's a very head in the sand view. I shall carry on finding Devon cousins and solving problems with DNA + paper records. Mike On 10/06/2016 22:57, blackmore terry via wrote: > One thing I've noticed with regard to DNA testing, while it does prove > that there is a link between two people with known DNA, there is one > flaw. Unless we dig up all known named graves in say Devon and take > DNA samples we are unlikely to ever know exactly who in ancient Devon we could actually be descended from. > DNA will show exactly where the generations join, but not who they > were. To me there is only one possible way of knowing our ancestory is down the female line. > Only one person can be the mother of a child, but any male can be the father. > This still depends on if the information we have is of the correct mother. > Unless we invent time travel, sorting out our family pedigrees will > always be one of a lot of guess work. > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon > can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's a very head in the sand view. I shall carry on finding Devon cousins and solving problems with DNA + paper records. Mike On 10/06/2016 22:57, blackmore terry via wrote: > One thing I've noticed with regard to DNA testing, while it does prove that > there is a link between two people with known DNA, there is one flaw. Unless we > dig up all known named graves in say Devon and take DNA samples we are unlikely > to ever know exactly who in ancient Devon we could actually be descended from. > DNA will show exactly where the generations join, but not who they were. To me > there is only one possible way of knowing our ancestory is down the female line. > Only one person can be the mother of a child, but any male can be the father. > This still depends on if the information we have is of the correct mother. > Unless we invent time travel, sorting out our family pedigrees will always be > one of a lot of guess work. > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

One thing I've noticed with regard to DNA testing, while it does prove that there is a link between two people with known DNA, there is one flaw. Unless we dig up all known named graves in say Devon and take DNA samples we are unlikely to ever know exactly who in ancient Devon we could actually be descended from. DNA will show exactly where the generations join, but not who they were. To me there is only one possible way of knowing our ancestory is down the female line. Only one person can be the mother of a child, but any male can be the father. This still depends on if the information we have is of the correct mother. Unless we invent time travel, sorting out our family pedigrees will always be one of a lot of guess work.

Hi Listers; For some time now I have been attempting to track down a William NOSWORTHY, born c1811, in Devon. William emigrated c1846 to South Australia. He had married Jane (born c1805) presumably sometime before 1846, and together with at least two of his three sons, sailed for Australia. William died in 1872 at Bald Hills, South Australia. Jane died in 1879, also at Bald Hills. I have searched my NOSWORTHY database and cannot locate a match for William. Have also tried the other spelling variants of NOSWORTHY without success. The info known for the three sons may provide some clues. 1) William George NOSWORTHY, born c1837, died 1912 Bald Hills, South Australia 2) George Drew NOSWORTHY, born 1838 Okehampton, Devon, died 1907 Lucindale, South Australia. George had his 8th. birthday on the ship on the way to Australia. Unfortunately I don't have the ship's name. 3) John NOSWORTHY, married Catherine GARDNER, and had at least 7 children. William has been the stumbling block to linking this family with the major Devon NOSWORTHY family lines. I have considered that perhaps William was not his first name, but instead the name he was known by (perhaps a middle name). However, as his first son was also named William, seems to provide supporting evidence that William was probably his correct name. The most often first name used in the NOSWORTHY family through the years was by far, John. The second was definitely William. This makes the task even more difficult! If there is anyone on the list who could possibly assist, or provide lookups for Okehamption, it would be great to hear from you. Len Heyward

Hi Len Do you an autosomal DNA test? (AncestryDNA, FamilyTreeDNA(family finder). If not the time period you are looking at is all right for looking for cousins. A larger number of people of Devon ancestry have tested in the USA and a rapidly increasing number in the UK. I have solved two long standing Devon ancestor problems using an AncestryDNA test & the Devon parish registers this year. Both these were baptisms in the late 1700s and early 1800s I could not find & had been working on for 20 years. Mike Fisher

Hi Len, FindMyPast (with images) have the following baptisms to William and Jane, all in Okehampton 1836 - William George - William given as Innkeeper 1839 - George Drew - William given as Innkeeper 1841 - Elizabeth Drew - William given as Auctioneer? Probable Marriage 1834 - Exeter St Mary Arches, between William Nosworthy and Elizabeth Drew Quite a few possibility's for William's baptism, the two most likely look to be 1810 - Chagford 1816 - Exeter, St Sidwell But without attempting to trace every William Nosworthy, then could get hard as you don't know his place of Birth. Tim Treeby DFHS 13926. On 10/06/2016 11:47, Len Heyward via wrote: > Hi Listers; > > For some time now I have been attempting to track down a William NOSWORTHY, born c1811, in Devon. William emigrated c1846 to South Australia. He had married Jane (born c1805) presumably sometime before 1846, and together with at least two of his three sons, sailed for Australia. William died in 1872 at Bald Hills, South Australia. Jane died in 1879, also at Bald Hills. > > I have searched my NOSWORTHY database and cannot locate a match for William. Have also tried the other spelling variants of NOSWORTHY without success. The info known for the three sons may provide some clues. > > 1) William George NOSWORTHY, born c1837, died 1912 Bald Hills, South Australia > > 2) George Drew NOSWORTHY, born 1838 Okehampton, Devon, died 1907 Lucindale, South Australia. George had his 8th. birthday on the ship on the way to Australia. Unfortunately I don't have the ship's name. > > 3) John NOSWORTHY, married Catherine GARDNER, and had at least 7 children. > > William has been the stumbling block to linking this family with the major Devon NOSWORTHY family lines. I have considered that perhaps William was not his first name, but instead the name he was known by (perhaps a middle name). However, as his first son was also named William, seems to provide supporting evidence that William was probably his correct name. > > The most often first name used in the NOSWORTHY family through the years was by far, John. The second was definitely William. This makes the task even more difficult! > > If there is anyone on the list who could possibly assist, or provide lookups for Okehamption, it would be great to hear from you. > > Len Heyward --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello Len Marriage from DREW marriages (From DFHS): William Nosworthy Jane Drew Married: 4 September 1834, Exeter St Mary Arches There is a copy of the Marriage Record on Findmypast, where they are both described as "A resident of this Parish", which suggests they came from elsewhere. They married after Banns (both signed, of Full Age) and was witnessed by Mary Ann Colling & Isaac Byne. Regards Roy Drew On 10/06/2016 11:47, Len Heyward via wrote: > Hi Listers; > > For some time now I have been attempting to track down a William NOSWORTHY, born c1811, in Devon. William emigrated c1846 to South Australia. He had married Jane (born c1805) presumably sometime before 1846, and together with at least two of his three sons, sailed for Australia. William died in 1872 at Bald Hills, South Australia. Jane died in 1879, also at Bald Hills. > > I have searched my NOSWORTHY database and cannot locate a match for William. Have also tried the other spelling variants of NOSWORTHY without success. The info known for the three sons may provide some clues. > > 1) William George NOSWORTHY, born c1837, died 1912 Bald Hills, South Australia > > 2) George Drew NOSWORTHY, born 1838 Okehampton, Devon, died 1907 Lucindale, South Australia. George had his 8th. birthday on the ship on the way to Australia. Unfortunately I don't have the ship's name. > > 3) John NOSWORTHY, married Catherine GARDNER, and had at least 7 children. > > William has been the stumbling block to linking this family with the major Devon NOSWORTHY family lines. I have considered that perhaps William was not his first name, but instead the name he was known by (perhaps a middle name). However, as his first son was also named William, seems to provide supporting evidence that William was probably his correct name. > > The most often first name used in the NOSWORTHY family through the years was by far, John. The second was definitely William. This makes the task even more difficult! > > If there is anyone on the list who could possibly assist, or provide lookups for Okehamption, it would be great to hear from you. > > Len Heyward > > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Try Class: RG14; Piece: 6023; Schedule Number: 204 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Anndriscoll via Sent: 09 June 2016 07:32 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Gladys D Bartholomew 1904 South Stoneham I am trying to find the parents of Gladys Dorothy Bartholomew born 1904 South Stoneham. I can't see her on the 1911 census so apart from buying her birth or marriage certificate I have no way of finding her. Can anyone help please? I know she married Cecil D Ewings in 1923 South Stoneham. Many thanks Ann ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ann I think you will find that she is here in the 1911, Dodwell Hill, West End Rd, Bursledon Nr Southampton, Hants. The reference is: Class: RG14; Piece: 6023; Schedule Number: 204 Peter -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Anndriscoll via Sent: 09 June 2016 7:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Gladys D Bartholomew 1904 South Stoneham I am trying to find the parents of Gladys Dorothy Bartholomew born 1904 South Stoneham. I can't see her on the 1911 census so apart from buying her birth or marriage certificate I have no way of finding her. Can anyone help please? I know she married Cecil D Ewings in 1923 South Stoneham. Many thanks Ann ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am trying to find the parents of Gladys Dorothy Bartholomew born 1904 South Stoneham. I can't see her on the 1911 census so apart from buying her birth or marriage certificate I have no way of finding her. Can anyone help please? I know she married Cecil D Ewings in 1923 South Stoneham. Many thanks Ann

Brian As an aside I persuaded the data centre to let me have the Kain and Oliver material in GIS format so that I could try to sort out the GLS parishes when I took over (I was doing some other things as well with it) . However I recall that was conditional on not making them generally available. Have GENUKI ever approached them collectively about using the maps in a consistent GIS format and displaying them? Or might we do so? For domestic reasons I have not been able to do all that I wanted with the GIS and the version has some inconsistencies with the printed maps as well. But I hope to get back to it later in the summer Regards Paul GLS/GENUKI > On 6 Jun 2016, at 15:42, Brian Randell via <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Adrian: > > Adrian: > > GENUKI’s parish structure (and I believe Kain and Oliver) is based on the admittedly vague concept of “ancient parishes” hence the statement near the top of my Barnstaple page "St Mary Magdalen (1846), Holy Trinity (1847) and St Paul, Sticklepath are modern parishes.” > > We initially used Phillimore as our arbiter, but for Devon I eventually used first: > > Peskett, H. Guide to the Parish and Non-Parochial Registers of Devon and Cornwall, 1538-1837, Torquay, Devon and Cornwall Record Society; extra ser., v (1979). > > and then: > > Wilcox, A. National Index of Parish Registers, Volume 8, Part 5: Devon, London, Society of Genealogists (1999) 245 pp. [ISBN 1 85951 605 X] > > Cheers > > Brian > > > > I don’t have the two sources I rely on () to hand for my decisions as to what to include as an >> On 6 Jun 2016, at 11:52, Adrian Bruce via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 6 June 2016 at 04:11, Jan Murphy via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> ... >>> Showing them separately makes it easier to show the coverage for the >>> Ancient Parish versus the two newer ones. >>> >> ... >> Basically - how do you show the passage of time on a single, 2-dimensional >> map? Answer - with difficulty. >> >> However, I suspect that the answer may be simpler. As a Northerner who is >> still trying to "prove" his 4G GF is the guy of the right name from >> Barnstaple, I am hesitant in putting this forward - but there may be a >> simpler explanation for why there are 3 Barnstaple parishes on the LDS map. >> May Brian forgive me but - is GENUKI (where I checked) actually misleading >> on this? >> >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Barnstaple#ChurchHistory has just 2 >> churches: >> >> Holy Trinity, Church of England >> St Peter and St Mary Magdalene, Church of England >> >> The Devon County Council Parish Register list has *3* sets of parish >> registers >> >> BARNSTAPLE: Holy Trinity (from 1845) >> BARNSTAPLE: St. Mary Magdalene (from 1846) >> BARNSTAPLE: St. Peter (from 1538) >> >> I finally found this link >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valhender/dirtrans/mor1870/brnstple.htm >> which refers to " ST. MARY MAGDALEN'S CHURCH, in Bear street ... completed >> in 1846" and is a separate entry from "HOLY TRINITY ... situate in the >> Barbacan, the erection of which was commenced in 1843" and "The ANCIENT >> PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Peter and St. Paul" >> >> There's then http://www.barnstaplehistory.com/st-marys-church/ which shows >> a photo of St. Mary's and the site after demolition. >> >> I *assume*, therefore, that in 1851 there were 3 parishes, as per the LDS >> map, and that at some time, St. Mary Magdalene was closed and demolished >> but not before its parish (and dedication) were merged with St. Peter, >> leading to the current dedication of St Peter and St Mary Magdalene. >> >> I *guess* that the GENUKI church history section simply reflects the 2 >> current CofE churches and that no-one's actually had the time to research >> the history and write the 3 church version that more accurately reflects >> history. I have incidentally, failed to find an explicit confirmation of, >> still less a date for, closure / merger of St Mary, so I am not suggesting >> for a minute that stuff is easy to find. >> >> Adrian >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >> and >> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, > NE1 7RU, UK > EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 > FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Paul: I’m afraid the request I made to, and the permission I received from, Professor Kain and the History Data Service in 2001 concerned just GENKI/Devon. (I knew he was based in Exeter :-) The History Data Service required me to use the acknowledgement: ""Acknowledgement is made to R.J.P. Kain, R.R Oliver, the Economic and Social Research Council, the History Data Service and the UK Data Archive.” (This was from: Cressida Chappell, Head of the History Data Service, UK Data Archive, University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, Colchester, CO4 3SQ, UK. Tel: +44 (0)1206 873984. Fax: +44 (0)1206 872003. Email: [email protected] URL: http://hds.essex.ac.uk/.) Cheers Brian On 6 Jun 2016, at 19:24, Paul Evans <[email protected]> wrote: > Brian > > As an aside I persuaded the data centre to let me have the Kain and Oliver material in GIS format so that I could try to sort out the GLS parishes when I took over (I was doing some other things as well with it) . However I recall that was conditional on not making them generally available. Have GENUKI ever approached them collectively about using the maps in a consistent GIS format and displaying them? Or might we do so? > > For domestic reasons I have not been able to do all that I wanted with the GIS and the version has some inconsistencies with the printed maps as well. But I hope to get back to it later in the summer > > Regards > > Paul > GLS/GENUKI >> On 6 Jun 2016, at 15:42, Brian Randell via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Adrian: >> >> Adrian: >> >> GENUKI’s parish structure (and I believe Kain and Oliver) is based on the admittedly vague concept of “ancient parishes” hence the statement near the top of my Barnstaple page "St Mary Magdalen (1846), Holy Trinity (1847) and St Paul, Sticklepath are modern parishes.” >> >> We initially used Phillimore as our arbiter, but for Devon I eventually used first: >> >> Peskett, H. Guide to the Parish and Non-Parochial Registers of Devon and Cornwall, 1538-1837, Torquay, Devon and Cornwall Record Society; extra ser., v (1979). >> >> and then: >> >> Wilcox, A. National Index of Parish Registers, Volume 8, Part 5: Devon, London, Society of Genealogists (1999) 245 pp. [ISBN 1 85951 605 X] >> >> Cheers >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> I don’t have the two sources I rely on () to hand for my decisions as to what to include as an >>> On 6 Jun 2016, at 11:52, Adrian Bruce via <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On 6 June 2016 at 04:11, Jan Murphy via <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> ... >>>> Showing them separately makes it easier to show the coverage for the >>>> Ancient Parish versus the two newer ones. >>>> >>> ... >>> Basically - how do you show the passage of time on a single, 2-dimensional >>> map? Answer - with difficulty. >>> >>> However, I suspect that the answer may be simpler. As a Northerner who is >>> still trying to "prove" his 4G GF is the guy of the right name from >>> Barnstaple, I am hesitant in putting this forward - but there may be a >>> simpler explanation for why there are 3 Barnstaple parishes on the LDS map. >>> May Brian forgive me but - is GENUKI (where I checked) actually misleading >>> on this? >>> >>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Barnstaple#ChurchHistory has just 2 >>> churches: >>> >>> Holy Trinity, Church of England >>> St Peter and St Mary Magdalene, Church of England >>> >>> The Devon County Council Parish Register list has *3* sets of parish >>> registers >>> >>> BARNSTAPLE: Holy Trinity (from 1845) >>> BARNSTAPLE: St. Mary Magdalene (from 1846) >>> BARNSTAPLE: St. Peter (from 1538) >>> >>> I finally found this link >>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valhender/dirtrans/mor1870/brnstple.htm >>> which refers to " ST. MARY MAGDALEN'S CHURCH, in Bear street ... completed >>> in 1846" and is a separate entry from "HOLY TRINITY ... situate in the >>> Barbacan, the erection of which was commenced in 1843" and "The ANCIENT >>> PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Peter and St. Paul" >>> >>> There's then http://www.barnstaplehistory.com/st-marys-church/ which shows >>> a photo of St. Mary's and the site after demolition. >>> >>> I *assume*, therefore, that in 1851 there were 3 parishes, as per the LDS >>> map, and that at some time, St. Mary Magdalene was closed and demolished >>> but not before its parish (and dedication) were merged with St. Peter, >>> leading to the current dedication of St Peter and St Mary Magdalene. >>> >>> I *guess* that the GENUKI church history section simply reflects the 2 >>> current CofE churches and that no-one's actually had the time to research >>> the history and write the 3 church version that more accurately reflects >>> history. I have incidentally, failed to find an explicit confirmation of, >>> still less a date for, closure / merger of St Mary, so I am not suggesting >>> for a minute that stuff is easy to find. >>> >>> Adrian >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >>> and >>> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >>> List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, >> NE1 7RU, UK >> EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 >> FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >> and >> the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) >> List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

IMHO the best resource for matching up parishes with maps is http://maps.familysearch.org/. When you have found what you want you can print it out. Nancy Frey Windsor, ON.

Hi Adrian: Adrian: GENUKI’s parish structure (and I believe Kain and Oliver) is based on the admittedly vague concept of “ancient parishes” hence the statement near the top of my Barnstaple page "St Mary Magdalen (1846), Holy Trinity (1847) and St Paul, Sticklepath are modern parishes.” We initially used Phillimore as our arbiter, but for Devon I eventually used first: Peskett, H. Guide to the Parish and Non-Parochial Registers of Devon and Cornwall, 1538-1837, Torquay, Devon and Cornwall Record Society; extra ser., v (1979). and then: Wilcox, A. National Index of Parish Registers, Volume 8, Part 5: Devon, London, Society of Genealogists (1999) 245 pp. [ISBN 1 85951 605 X] Cheers Brian I don’t have the two sources I rely on () to hand for my decisions as to what to include as an > On 6 Jun 2016, at 11:52, Adrian Bruce via <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 6 June 2016 at 04:11, Jan Murphy via <[email protected]> wrote: > >> ... >> Showing them separately makes it easier to show the coverage for the >> Ancient Parish versus the two newer ones. >> > ... > Basically - how do you show the passage of time on a single, 2-dimensional > map? Answer - with difficulty. > > However, I suspect that the answer may be simpler. As a Northerner who is > still trying to "prove" his 4G GF is the guy of the right name from > Barnstaple, I am hesitant in putting this forward - but there may be a > simpler explanation for why there are 3 Barnstaple parishes on the LDS map. > May Brian forgive me but - is GENUKI (where I checked) actually misleading > on this? > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Barnstaple#ChurchHistory has just 2 > churches: > > Holy Trinity, Church of England > St Peter and St Mary Magdalene, Church of England > > The Devon County Council Parish Register list has *3* sets of parish > registers > > BARNSTAPLE: Holy Trinity (from 1845) > BARNSTAPLE: St. Mary Magdalene (from 1846) > BARNSTAPLE: St. Peter (from 1538) > > I finally found this link > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valhender/dirtrans/mor1870/brnstple.htm > which refers to " ST. MARY MAGDALEN'S CHURCH, in Bear street ... completed > in 1846" and is a separate entry from "HOLY TRINITY ... situate in the > Barbacan, the erection of which was commenced in 1843" and "The ANCIENT > PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Peter and St. Paul" > > There's then http://www.barnstaplehistory.com/st-marys-church/ which shows > a photo of St. Mary's and the site after demolition. > > I *assume*, therefore, that in 1851 there were 3 parishes, as per the LDS > map, and that at some time, St. Mary Magdalene was closed and demolished > but not before its parish (and dedication) were merged with St. Peter, > leading to the current dedication of St Peter and St Mary Magdalene. > > I *guess* that the GENUKI church history section simply reflects the 2 > current CofE churches and that no-one's actually had the time to research > the history and write the 3 church version that more accurately reflects > history. I have incidentally, failed to find an explicit confirmation of, > still less a date for, closure / merger of St Mary, so I am not suggesting > for a minute that stuff is easy to find. > > Adrian > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

I just found all the extra messages so I shall answer them in order of receipt: Mike Yes I use the NLS maps, I especially like the ones that show the elevation levels, but they don't show the parish boundaries. Adrian If you put the GENUKI gif image of a parish on top of the LDS map zoomed to the same size you see how much clearer the GENUKI map is. The parish boundaries are very heavy on the LDS map and they add extra parish and county labels which are not in the same position if you move the area selected. I find the LDS map zoom function hard to manage and I keep selecting a parish by mistake and turning it purple! Martin & Brian I had thought of merging the GENUKI parishes but I decided it was too much trouble to adjust the sizes if I could get a print/image elsewhere. I may still try this. Regards Diana

On 6 June 2016 at 04:11, Jan Murphy via <[email protected]> wrote: > ... > Showing them separately makes it easier to show the coverage for the > Ancient Parish versus the two newer ones. > ... Basically - how do you show the passage of time on a single, 2-dimensional map? Answer - with difficulty. However, I suspect that the answer may be simpler. As a Northerner who is still trying to "prove" his 4G GF is the guy of the right name from Barnstaple, I am hesitant in putting this forward - but there may be a simpler explanation for why there are 3 Barnstaple parishes on the LDS map. May Brian forgive me but - is GENUKI (where I checked) actually misleading on this? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Barnstaple#ChurchHistory has just 2 churches: Holy Trinity, Church of England St Peter and St Mary Magdalene, Church of England The Devon County Council Parish Register list has *3* sets of parish registers BARNSTAPLE: Holy Trinity (from 1845) BARNSTAPLE: St. Mary Magdalene (from 1846) BARNSTAPLE: St. Peter (from 1538) I finally found this link http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valhender/dirtrans/mor1870/brnstple.htm which refers to " ST. MARY MAGDALEN'S CHURCH, in Bear street ... completed in 1846" and is a separate entry from "HOLY TRINITY ... situate in the Barbacan, the erection of which was commenced in 1843" and "The ANCIENT PARISH CHURCH, dedicated to St. Peter and St. Paul" There's then http://www.barnstaplehistory.com/st-marys-church/ which shows a photo of St. Mary's and the site after demolition. I *assume*, therefore, that in 1851 there were 3 parishes, as per the LDS map, and that at some time, St. Mary Magdalene was closed and demolished but not before its parish (and dedication) were merged with St. Peter, leading to the current dedication of St Peter and St Mary Magdalene. I *guess* that the GENUKI church history section simply reflects the 2 current CofE churches and that no-one's actually had the time to research the history and write the 3 church version that more accurately reflects history. I have incidentally, failed to find an explicit confirmation of, still less a date for, closure / merger of St Mary, so I am not suggesting for a minute that stuff is easy to find. Adrian