Thanks to Northumberland and Durham FHS for this caveat. This is great new resource (if only temporary). But a word of warning. I have been checking the age at death of relatives where this is not included on the GRO microfilm indices, hece not on FreeBMD either. The new online death index states that it gives the age in years. I have three relatives who died in early childhood where I have the age from the burial record, which is accord with known birth dates. In these cases the known age in months is reported on the web site as being years. So children known to have died at 7 and 14 months respectively are shown as being 7 and 14 years old. It appears that the output cannot cope with an age in months. _________________________________________________

Hi Martin: Your 7 October message to Devon-L did in fact reach me, so I added a link to the report that you’d found to the main GENUKI/Devon page under Schools. Cheers Brian > On 14 Nov 2016, at 12:18, Martin Beavis <[email protected]> wrote: > > First, it's great to have the list back. Let's hope it stays that way. > > Second, commiserations to our friends in Exeter about the loss of heritage buildings in that awful fire. > > Third, here is a duplicate of a message I posted on 7 October just as the list was going down. It did get into the Archive but I'm led to believe it never got circulated at that time. > -------------------------------------- > > In 1867 Parliament became concerned about the variability and frequently inadequate standard of secondary education available to the fee-paying middle classes and commissioned a nation-wide inquiry into the status and performance of all such schools. The Schools Inquiry Commission (just google it) published its report in many volumes, of which Volume XIV covers the counties of Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Somerset and Wiltshire, and is online at. > https://archive.org/stream/cu31924032401162#page/n5/mode/2up > This was a Victorian equivalent of the present-day Ofsted reports. The Devon section has detailed reviews of 23 boys schools and 2 girls schools, and tabulated data for many more. This is perhaps social history rather than genealogy but typically identifies headmasters and governors. I looked for a person at Allhallows School in Honiton and read it was much improved after he ceased to be headmaster. > > And if you really want social history, the Commission reported on girls' education, as reprinted at > http://www.educationengland.org.uk/documents/sicr/sicr1-06.html > > Martin Beavis > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 FAX = +44 191 208 8232 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/people/profile/brianrandell.html

First, it's great to have the list back. Let's hope it stays that way. Second, commiserations to our friends in Exeter about the loss of heritage buildings in that awful fire. Third, here is a duplicate of a message I posted on 7 October just as the list was going down. It did get into the Archive but I'm led to believe it never got circulated at that time. -------------------------------------- In 1867 Parliament became concerned about the variability and frequently inadequate standard of secondary education available to the fee-paying middle classes and commissioned a nation-wide inquiry into the status and performance of all such schools. The Schools Inquiry Commission (just google it) published its report in many volumes, of which Volume XIV covers the counties of Devon, Cornwall, Dorset, Somerset and Wiltshire, and is online at. https://archive.org/stream/cu31924032401162#page/n5/mode/2up This was a Victorian equivalent of the present-day Ofsted reports. The Devon section has detailed reviews of 23 boys schools and 2 girls schools, and tabulated data for many more. This is perhaps social history rather than genealogy but typically identifies headmasters and governors. I looked for a person at Allhallows School in Honiton and read it was much improved after he ceased to be headmaster. And if you really want social history, the Commission reported on girls' education, as reprinted at http://www.educationengland.org.uk/documents/sicr/sicr1-06.html Martin Beavis

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Jack Earnshaw <[email protected]> wrote: > > There is an issue still with these indexes that may never be solved, since > the transcriptions came from the DOVE project. I have found a few people > where the person's birth or death is listed on FreeBMD, Findmypast etc. But > they are not listed on the new GRO indexes. As the surname is a mandatory > field it is impossible to totally prove that the entry isn't on the system, > but from the various searches I have done, I cannot find them. If only it > was possible to just use first name, GRO ref, etc. Then I would be more > than certain about missing entries. I've reported one, to see what happens. > I have found a couple of entries where the baptism records suggested the child was illegitimate (the child is listed only with the mother's name). The new GRO index seems to agree -- the entries show the mother's name in the main surname field, with the mother's maiden name blank. (I have ordered the certificate for one of these children so I'll see what it looks like once it arrives.) For some of the missing entries, if you have an idea of the mother's maiden name, try putting it in the main surname field to see if anything pops out. (I'm wondering if some of the missing entries have the father's name in the mother's maiden name field, and the mother's maiden name in the main surname field, due to indexer error.) Jan Jan Murphy [email protected]

Greetings Christopher (ie CR Campbell) I can't find a way to reply to you direct so could you reply to me off list please? My email address is [email protected] I look forward to hearing from you. We just MAY have a connection. Cheers Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia -----Original Message----- From: DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of CR Campbell Sent: Monday, 14 November 2016 5:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DEV] What is this name? Hi Pam, I might be connected to them.... We've been searching for Hamlins (Hamlyn) in that area for quite some time with no success.... Can you tell me the source of the Hamilns of Frithelstock? We have a George Jeffery b 1758 in Cookbury married to Ann Hamlyn b abt 1777 location unknown. In addition we have George Jeffery b 1800 in a strange relationship with an Elizabeth Hamlyn/Hamley b 1801 in Holsworthy. She is listed as a "servant" in his household on the 1851, and 1861, censuses...It is not known if she is related to Ann above...The strangeness comes in that she appears to be the mother of three of his children, after his first wife, Elizabeth Davey, disappears from the records... Your post seems to be the first clue we've had as to a possible origin for our Hamlyns.... Any help appreciated Christopher Pensacola, Florida, USA On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 12:05 AM, PMR <[email protected]> wrote: > Greetings Listers > > > > It seems (not yet proven) that my HAMLIN family resided in > Frithelstock in the 1500s and 1600s. > > > > One possible ancestral couple is William HAMLIN who married > Pychovil MARTIN in Frithelstock on 5 Jul 1588. > > > > I'm intrigued by the bride's first name. Is there a modern > equivalent? > > > > Does anyone else have any connection with the Frithelstock > HAMLINs? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Cheers > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Greetings Jean Many thanks for your reply. Greatly appreciated. Cheers Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia -----Original Message----- From: DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jean Hodges Sent: Monday, 14 November 2016 4:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DEV] Subject: What is this name? Hi Pam, Checking the marriage entry on Find my Past the name definitely looks like Richord. I have several in my family in Devon. Good luck, Jean -----Original Message----- From: DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Teresa Goatham Sent: 13 November 2016 18:11 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Subject: What is this name? Hi Pam, I don't know where Pychovil came from, but it's clearly a transcription by someone who doesn't know the old letter shapes and was guessing based on how we write - a recipe for disaster! It clearly says Rychord, which was quite a common female name in Devon at one time (I doubt you've got back to the C16th without coming across it but in case you haven't though similar to Richard, and sometimes mistranscribed as Richard, it generally has an o in it - Richord, Richoard, etc.). It you have a subscription to FMP you can see a good image there. Teresa - with Hambling etc ancestors but no idea where they were in the C16th On 13/11/2016 15:35, [email protected] wrote: > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:05:38 +1000 > From: PMR<[email protected]> > To: "'DEVON Mailing List'"<[email protected]> > Subject: [DEV] What is this name? > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greetings Listers > > > > It seems (not yet proven) that my HAMLIN family resided > in Frithelstock in the 1500s and 1600s. > > > > One possible ancestral couple is William HAMLIN who > married Pychovil MARTIN in Frithelstock on 5 Jul 1588. > > > > I'm intrigued by the bride's first name. Is there a > modern equivalent? > > > > Does anyone else have any connection with the > Frithelstock HAMLINs? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Cheers > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Greetings Teresa Many thanks for that. Yes, I have come across Richourd, a female, in one family. I guess it is as you say - transcribed by someone who doesn't know the old letter shapes. I'm not at all sure yet if this is my line, just that it seems it may be so - more checking needed. Cheers Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia -----Original Message----- From: DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Teresa Goatham Sent: Monday, 14 November 2016 4:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Subject: What is this name? Hi Pam, I don't know where Pychovil came from, but it's clearly a transcription by someone who doesn't know the old letter shapes and was guessing based on how we write - a recipe for disaster! It clearly says Rychord, which was quite a common female name in Devon at one time (I doubt you've got back to the C16th without coming across it but in case you haven't though similar to Richard, and sometimes mistranscribed as Richard, it generally has an o in it - Richord, Richoard, etc.). It you have a subscription to FMP you can see a good image there. Teresa - with Hambling etc ancestors but no idea where they were in the C16th On 13/11/2016 15:35, [email protected] wrote: > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:05:38 +1000 > From: PMR<[email protected]> > To: "'DEVON Mailing List'"<[email protected]> > Subject: [DEV] What is this name? > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greetings Listers > > > > It seems (not yet proven) that my HAMLIN family resided in > Frithelstock in the 1500s and 1600s. > > > > One possible ancestral couple is William HAMLIN who married > Pychovil MARTIN in Frithelstock on 5 Jul 1588. > > > > I'm intrigued by the bride's first name. Is there a modern > equivalent? > > > > Does anyone else have any connection with the Frithelstock > HAMLINs? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Cheers > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Richard STONE of Clayhanger, Devon, married Eleanor SLOCOMBE in Crowcombe, Somerset in 1619. See details and much more at the stone-rhodes website shown below. Stone-Slocombe documents are among the auction collection housed at the dartmouth.edu website shown below. -- John C. Stone II New Hampshire & Vermont, USA [email protected] www.stone-rhodes.org https://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/digital/collections/manuscripts/stone/index.html

Re "The only exception is legal adoption when the original entry is is removed from the index and becomes "secret", unless requested by the adoptee following a legal process." ​ There was a chain on the WDYTYA Forum on this topic and a former registrar stated: "birth certificates of adopted children are available like any other, but they will be noted as adopted by the superintendent registrar, and no connection to the adoptive name is shown." In other words, if you are adopted, your original *birth* certificate is still available. If someone wants to buy it, they can, and there will be an annotation of "adopted" on it *but* there will be no further clue about current name, adoptive parents, etc. Acknowledgements to Antony M and if it's wrong, it's my fault. I guess there are a couple of caveats 1. This will surely only apply after adoption became legally recognised in the 1920s - before that it was entirely informal and no certificate would be annotated or amended to cover an informal thing; 2. If I were designing the system from scratch today, I *personally* would seal off the original birth certificates and remove the entries from the indexes. Too easy to glue things together, especially with a computer, to at least home in on candidates. However, removal from the indexes was a non-starter before the computer age. Adrian

The url starts https. This is a secure link and I guess you may be registered and logged on. It's probably easier to Google for non subscribers. Cheers Paul Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, 12 Nov, 2016 at 22:21, B. Edmonds<[email protected]> wrote: Sorry about that Ellen This is the Archive Book that I had found, there should not have been any difficulties with it. Full text of "Uppingham School Roll, 1824 to 1905" - Internet Archive https://archive.org/stream/.../uppinghamschool00schogoog_djvu.txt Regards Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ellen Murray" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:09 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: [DEV] B. Edmonds msg re; Francis Cornish WARNING > Bev I clicked on the link you showed & am now having great difficulty > getting normal access to internet.  Warning to anyone else that has not > yet tried to open this link. > > Ellen > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks for all your thoughtful responses regarding the duplicate birth index and mother's maiden name for my Yelland family in Stoke Damerel. The answer is not easy, and I guess, the only way to find out is to order the certificate. Thanks so much for your time, Anne www.annebrooks.ca

Roger, I use the term legally advisedly. The legal adoption process has only been in force since the 1920s and unitil recently children did not have the right to know their natural parents. Informal adoption has been around longer. Even now registration relies on a sworn statement by at least the mother or the married partner. My guess is the second registration was illegal and avoids the process but legal adoption has become more and more cumbersome and I would probably do the same. Cheers Paul Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sun, 13 Nov, 2016 at 16:20, Roger M Evans<[email protected]> wrote: Dear Paul,   Your comment reference “access to adoptee certificate of birth” is not borne out by practice, my wife’s original birth cert was obtained by the spouse of a third cousin without consent from her , this would have been from the Norwich Registrar’s Office. Is your statement legally correct, if so I will be following it up, it never crossed my mind that there was any exclusion as the info is also available on FreeBMD.   I look forward to your reply   Roger M EVANS

Wayne, For the father to be named on a birth certificate the couple must be married or   the father must confirm his agreement to be named by being present at the registration . In this case somebody made an illegal declaration of marriage so the origanal registration was void. Whoever made the declaration would have committed an offence and would have been liable to at least a fine. Cheers Paul From: Wayne Shepheard <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Cc: Edmonds Bev <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 13 November 2016, 14:56 Subject: Re: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel Paul, Bev and Others, I came across an example of birth entries being changed through a researcher who was looking into some information from Plympton St Mary, one of my parishes. This is the gist of what he told me: He was looking for an 1867 birth record for a James Eastman, a brother of his great-grandmother. He found a reference in civil records for which he applied for a copy. The register office told him that they could not deliver the certificate because it had been cancelled due, apparently, to the there having been no proof of a marriage between James's supposed parents, Samuel and Mary Eastman. They would, however, send him a copy of one that had been reissued in the name of James Kellow, son of Mary Elizabeth Kellow. (Mary did marry Samuel but not until 1874.) On a subsequent visit to the Plymouth Record Office, they would not show him the original entry but did confirm that the boy's father was Samuel Eastman. (I do not know how or whether that means by blood.) This was all part of a complicated search for information about the Kellow family, who were also shown in various records as Kellar, Callard and Callow. In this instance, though, a birth was registered twice, under different surnames, and both can be found on searchable records. They also have the same volume and page number on the GRO index. I realize this is not quite the same issue as that referenced by Anne below but it does show that registrations can be and were changed under certain circumstances. Wayne Shepheard Cornwood OPC -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 7:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel Bev, Unless there is a material mistake by the registrar, i.e. sex or a father added a registration cannot be changed or a new certificate issued. To register twice to changea forename would be illegal (though that would not neccssarily stop anybody trying). The only exception is legal adoption when the original entry is is removed from the index and becomes "secret", unless requested by the adoptee.following a the legal process. A replacement entry made with the new name and parents. Cheers Paul -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/11/16, B. Edmonds <[email protected]> wrote: Subject: Re: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 12 November, 2016, 22:10 Anne Could the parents have decided to change the name of the baby? Regards Bev -------------------------------------------------- From: "Anne Brooks" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 7:22 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel > The GRO search for births, now including the maiden name of the mother, is > quite fascinating. I have a question regarding my latest discovery. > > I have a family of YELLANDs living in Stoke Damerel. The mother's maiden > name was DOVE. I had four children for this couple between 1848 and 1854. > One was a Fanny YELLAND, 1850 D. Quarter Stoke Damerel 09 pg 439; mother > DOVE. I was able to find all four, them all, with a mother DOVE. > > I then searched for any children born in that time frame, surname YELLAND, > mother's maiden name, DOVE. To my surprise another child came up, a Jane > YELLAND with the identical criteria as Fanny, mother DOVE, except a 2 page > difference: pg 437. > > Do I assume they were twins and the second entry just got recorded 2 pages > later ??? Why 2 pages ? I checked the original images on FreeBMD and the > pages seem to have been transcribed correctly, one 439, and one 437. As > this Jane never appeared in any censuses in the home, and I couldn't find > a death registration for her, it is rather strange. The liklihood of > another YELLAND / DOVE marriage is quite unlikely I would think. > > Any thoughts most appreciated. > Anne > ------------------------------------------

Hi Pam, Checking the marriage entry on Find my Past the name definitely looks like Richord. I have several in my family in Devon. Good luck, Jean -----Original Message----- From: DEVON [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Teresa Goatham Sent: 13 November 2016 18:11 To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] Subject: What is this name? Hi Pam, I don't know where Pychovil came from, but it's clearly a transcription by someone who doesn't know the old letter shapes and was guessing based on how we write - a recipe for disaster! It clearly says Rychord, which was quite a common female name in Devon at one time (I doubt you've got back to the C16th without coming across it but in case you haven't though similar to Richard, and sometimes mistranscribed as Richard, it generally has an o in it - Richord, Richoard, etc.). It you have a subscription to FMP you can see a good image there. Teresa - with Hambling etc ancestors but no idea where they were in the C16th On 13/11/2016 15:35, [email protected] wrote: > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:05:38 +1000 > From: PMR<[email protected]> > To: "'DEVON Mailing List'"<[email protected]> > Subject: [DEV] What is this name? > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greetings Listers > > > > It seems (not yet proven) that my HAMLIN family resided > in Frithelstock in the 1500s and 1600s. > > > > One possible ancestral couple is William HAMLIN who > married Pychovil MARTIN in Frithelstock on 5 Jul 1588. > > > > I'm intrigued by the bride's first name. Is there a > modern equivalent? > > > > Does anyone else have any connection with the > Frithelstock HAMLINs? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Cheers > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pam, I don't know where Pychovil came from, but it's clearly a transcription by someone who doesn't know the old letter shapes and was guessing based on how we write - a recipe for disaster! It clearly says Rychord, which was quite a common female name in Devon at one time (I doubt you've got back to the C16th without coming across it but in case you haven't though similar to Richard, and sometimes mistranscribed as Richard, it generally has an o in it - Richord, Richoard, etc.). It you have a subscription to FMP you can see a good image there. Teresa - with Hambling etc ancestors but no idea where they were in the C16th On 13/11/2016 15:35, [email protected] wrote: > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:05:38 +1000 > From: PMR<[email protected]> > To: "'DEVON Mailing List'"<[email protected]> > Subject: [DEV] What is this name? > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Greetings Listers > > > > It seems (not yet proven) that my HAMLIN family resided in > Frithelstock in the 1500s and 1600s. > > > > One possible ancestral couple is William HAMLIN who married > Pychovil MARTIN in Frithelstock on 5 Jul 1588. > > > > I'm intrigued by the bride's first name. Is there a modern > equivalent? > > > > Does anyone else have any connection with the Frithelstock > HAMLINs? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Cheers > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia

This only helps with a short list. For any degree of certainty the certificate is necessary. This has details like address, fathers professtion etc.. It's also worth remembering that the original entry is held by the local registrar and transcription errors happen. Cheers Paul -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 12/11/16, Jan Murphy <[email protected]> wrote: Subject: Re: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 12 November, 2016, 22:24 Hello Anne -- If you're good with spreadsheets, it is possible to analyse all the entries around that time and guess what registration sub-district your two registrations are in. The method has been written up at Genealogy Stack Exchange: What “hidden” clues are there in the GRO Indexes of births and deaths? <http://genealogy.stackexchange.com/q/10355/1006> The author designed this as an aid to distinguish two same-name individuals, but you might be able to tell a little bit more about how close these two registrations were geographically. His worked example is from 1858, which is close in time to what you need.  His method can be used for births and deaths from 1837 up to 1936. I also try to cross-check the GRO registrations against parish records when possible. Good luck! Jan Jan Murphy [email protected] On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Brad Rogers <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 17:22:58 -0400 > Anne Brooks <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello Anne, > > >Do I assume they were twins and the second entry just got recorded 2 > > Not even if the certificate for the one you already have, if you have it, > has a time (of birth) on it.  Early birth registrations often had time > of birth recorded (Registrar dependant) irrespective of twinship. > Another option is that two DOVE women married two YELLAND men. > > The only way to be 100% is to acquire both certificates. > > >liklihood of another YELLAND / DOVE marriage is quite unlikely I would > >think. > > But not impossible.  I have two such cases in my tree.  Although, to be > fair, one such coincidental pairing does not occur within the same RD.  I > also have two double marriages; two brothers to two sisters - one set > were even married the same day in a double ceremony. > > -- >  Regards  _ >          / )           "The blindingly obvious is >         / _)rad        never immediately apparent" > My body's an oasis to drink from as you please > Mirage - Siouxsie & The Banshees > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ >  and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/   and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Ann -- Supposing that Fanny and Jane were indeed twins but Jane died at birth such that Fanny's live birth was registered but not Jane's, but then the parents wanted a sentimental record of their dead infant and went back and registered Jane as a live birth which might explain the page difference and why you find no subsequent registration of her death. I'm not sure about registration procedures around 1850 but you might search Genbrit or RootsChat for stillborn/stillbirth discussions. Alternatively, it is too much to expect that the new GRO indexes are both 100% complete and 100% accurate -- as demonstrated within your own family. AS you say, the GRO indexes find five YELLAND children with mother DOVE: Mary 1848, Fanny & Jane both 1848, of whom only Mary and Fanny, but not Jane, are living with their parents in 1851 census of Stoke Damerel, such that Jane might have died before the census. John 1852 & Harriet 1854, both of whom died in the same quarter Apr--Jun 1858, as found on the usual GRO-based sources (FS, FMP, Anc), but the new GRO indexes find only the death registration of John: YELLAND, JOHN 5 years GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Volume 05B Page 208 but do not find Harriet even though she is listed next to John on the summary images at all the other sites. Nor do they find her if we suppose her to be mis-coded as male or mis-dated between 1843 and 1867. So if GRO cannot find Harriet who they know to be dead, then how can you be sure what they have done with Jane? You could report the omission af Harriet and ask about Jane, and/or like Brad says, acquire both certificates. Regards -- Martin Beavis -----Original Message----- From: Anne Brooks Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 9:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel The GRO search for births, now including the maiden name of the mother, is quite fascinating. I have a question regarding my latest discovery. I have a family of YELLANDs living in Stoke Damerel. The mother's maiden name was DOVE. I had four children for this couple between 1848 and 1854. One was a Fanny YELLAND, 1850 D. Quarter Stoke Damerel 09 pg 439; mother DOVE. I was able to find all four, them all, with a mother DOVE. I then searched for any children born in that time frame, surname YELLAND, mother's maiden name, DOVE. To my surprise another child came up, a Jane YELLAND with the identical criteria as Fanny, mother DOVE, except a 2 page difference: pg 437. Do I assume they were twins and the second entry just got recorded 2 pages later ??? Why 2 pages ? I checked the original images on FreeBMD and the pages seem to have been transcribed correctly, one 439, and one 437. As this Jane never appeared in any censuses in the home, and I couldn't find a death registration for her, it is rather strange. The liklihood of another YELLAND / DOVE marriage is quite unlikely I would think. Any thoughts most appreciated. Anne ------------------------------------------ The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ and the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Paul, Your comment reference "access to adoptee certificate of birth" is not borne out by practice, my wife's original birth cert was obtained by the spouse of a third cousin without consent from her , this would have been from the Norwich Registrar's Office. Is your statement legally correct, if so I will be following it up, it never crossed my mind that there was any exclusion as the info is also available on FreeBMD. I look forward to your reply Roger M EVANS

Greetings Listers It seems (not yet proven) that my HAMLIN family resided in Frithelstock in the 1500s and 1600s. One possible ancestral couple is William HAMLIN who married Pychovil MARTIN in Frithelstock on 5 Jul 1588. I'm intrigued by the bride's first name. Is there a modern equivalent? Does anyone else have any connection with the Frithelstock HAMLINs? Many thanks Cheers Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Paul -- I don't mean to dispute anything you say. If someone can afford the cost of the certificates, they'll get more information if they have both certificates in hand. However -- there are five registration sub-districts in Stoke Damerel. Knowing which sub-districts might provide clues, in combination with other geographically-oriented sources like electoral rolls. The other thing I'd like to know is whether either of the registrations was marked as an occasional copy A, which might be a hint that an original certificate was amended. Cheers, Jan Jan Murphy [email protected] On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 9:55 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > This only helps with a short list. For any degree of certainty the > certificate is necessary. This has details like address, fathers > professtion etc.. It's also worth remembering that the original entry is > held by the local registrar and transcription errors happen. > Cheers > Paul > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 12/11/16, Jan Murphy <[email protected]> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [DEV] YELLAND Stoke Damerel > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 12 November, 2016, 22:24 > > Hello Anne -- > > If you're good with spreadsheets, it is possible to analyse > all the entries > around that time and guess what registration sub-district > your two > registrations are in. > > The method has been written up at Genealogy Stack Exchange: > > What “hidden” clues are there in the GRO Indexes of > births and deaths? > > <http://genealogy.stackexchange.com/q/10355/1006> > The author designed this as an aid to distinguish two > same-name > individuals, but you might be able to tell a little bit more > about how > close these two registrations were geographically. His > worked example is > from 1858, which is close in time to what you need. > His method can be used > for births and deaths from 1837 up to 1936. > > I also try to cross-check the GRO registrations against > parish records when > possible. > > Good luck! > > Jan > > > Jan Murphy > [email protected] > > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Brad Rogers <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 17:22:58 -0400 > > Anne Brooks <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Hello Anne, > > > > >Do I assume they were twins and the second entry > just got recorded 2 > > > > Not even if the certificate for the one you already > have, if you have it, > > has a time (of birth) on it. Early birth > registrations often had time > > of birth recorded (Registrar dependant) irrespective of > twinship. > > Another option is that two DOVE women married two > YELLAND men. > > > > The only way to be 100% is to acquire both > certificates. > > > > >liklihood of another YELLAND / DOVE marriage is > quite unlikely I would > > >think. > > > > But not impossible. I have two such cases in my > tree. Although, to be > > fair, one such coincidental pairing does not occur > within the same RD. I > > also have two double marriages; two brothers to two > sisters - one set > > were even married the same day in a double ceremony. > > > > -- > > Regards _ > > / ) > "The blindingly obvious is > > / _)rad > never immediately apparent" > > My body's an oasis to drink from as you please > > Mirage - Siouxsie & The Banshees > > ------------------------------------------ > > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by > GENUKI/Devon > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > > and > > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > > List archive for Devon can be found at > http://archiver.rootsweb. > > ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------------ > The DEVON-L mailing list is co-sponsored by GENUKI/Devon > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ > and > the Devon FHS (http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/ ) > List archive for Devon can be found at http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index?list=devon > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >