Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire

This is really exciting! Franz Karl Sigele & Franziska Jll are my 3rd-gr grandparents - their daughter Pauline being my gg-grandmother. It's interesting that the name is "Jll" - even the IGI gives it as "Ill" and it certainly looked like that in the church records I found. I would love to have a copy of those pages. Is that possible? If you don't have a scanner, I will gladly reimburse you for any copy/postage costs. Since I don't see a connection to the other listings you mention, only these will be necessary. Thank you so much for your help! Claire -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi Claire, I'll send you the scans you need. I found it interesting that you were able to confirm that Jll = Ill. I don't think you will know for sure which is correct unless or until you see the original records. I had a similar experience with the entries for my Köhl ancestors in the Eichstetten Ortsfamilienbuch. I have the family bible, tombstone inscriptions, and photocopies of original entries in the Eichstettin church records - - all clearly showed the same spelling, including the umlaut. Imagine my shock in not finding a single entry for Köhl when I bought the Ortsfamilienbuch. Soon I found the entries, all under Kehl, even for those entries where my photocopies of original records show Köhl. The book does not even have a reference to Köhl as an alternative spelling. Of course, this slight frustration is far outweighed with my deep appreciation to the compiler for laying out my family tree for many generations. As a special bonus, the book traces one ancestor's descent from Johannes Brenz, the "Reformer of Württemberg," and Erhard Schnepf. Both were colleagues of Martin Luther! John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim This is really exciting! Franz Karl Sigele & Franziska Jll are my 3rd-gr grandparents - their daughter Pauline being my gg-grandmother. It's interesting that the name is "Jll" - even the IGI gives it as "Ill" and it certainly looked like that in the church records I found. I would love to have a copy of those pages. Is that possible? If you don't have a scanner, I will gladly reimburse you for any copy/postage costs. Since I don't see a connection to the other listings you mention, only these will be necessary. Thank you so much for your help! Claire -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de >. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Hi Claire, I'm sending you the scans from the Osb. Friesenheim. I scanned the ancestral couple you identified, plus the additional entries cited for their families of origin, as coded by the entry numbers. So I did all the direct ancestral entries I could find - except other marriages by the ancestors. Just let me know if you want them. I also have the Osb. Oberweier. One of your entries cited to that book. The Oberweier pages are labeled as "a" and "b" for their file names, to keep the two series separate. I had to scan turn the book upside down for some pages, to avoid stress on the binding. Just let me know if I missed any entries! So far I didn't find any connection between our families. My ancestors from this area were Evangelical/Lutheran, although I am Catholic. Yours that I noticed were all Catholic. In America, many of my ancestors intermarried with other religions. In nearly all cases the non-Catholic turned Catholic. But I haven't uncovered intermarriage in Germany. To me, it is interesting that people of the two religions lived side in these small villages. I wonder whether Baden is unusual in that regard. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim This is really exciting! Franz Karl Sigele & Franziska Jll are my 3rd-gr grandparents - their daughter Pauline being my gg-grandmother. It's interesting that the name is "Jll" - even the IGI gives it as "Ill" and it certainly looked like that in the church records I found. I would love to have a copy of those pages. Is that possible? If you don't have a scanner, I will gladly reimburse you for any copy/postage costs. Since I don't see a connection to the other listings you mention, only these will be necessary. Thank you so much for your help! Claire -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de >. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx