I'm new to this list. One of my first items, of course, will be to review the list's archives. In the meantime, can anyone tell me what is [or was] the difference between Neiderschopfheim (from whence my ancestors emigrated), Oberschopfheim and the present city of Schopfheim. Were the first two suburbs of Schopfheim, did they merge to become Schopfheim, or ........??? Dick

Dick, I don't know if you received this message. Wendelin is having some ISP problems in connecting to Rootsweb. His answer is/was>.. ---------- > Dick, > > the towns Niederschopfheim and Oberschopfheim are neighboring towns. > They belong to different communities: Niederschopfheim to Hohberg (3 > towns) > and Oberschopfheim to Friesenheim (5 towns). > > By chance Schopfheim has the same name. It's located in about 100 km distance > from the other towns. That town has nothing to do with the others. > > - Wendelin > ----- djweber [email protected] -------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:27 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Localities > I'm new to this list. One of my first items, of course, will be to review > the list's archives. In the meantime, can anyone tell me what is [or was] > the difference between Neiderschopfheim (from whence my ancestors > emigrated), Oberschopfheim and the present city of Schopfheim. Were the > first two suburbs of Schopfheim, did they merge to become Schopfheim, or > ........??? > > Dick >

Dick, Adding to Wendelin's comments....and right now his ISP and Rootsweb appear to be at odds. Neiderschopfheim and Oberschopfheim. In a very simple translation Nieder means Low or Down. Ober when used with another word means Upper. We in the States might take this as Ober being north and Nieder being south but we would be incorrect. We should think of the flow of the rivers to the sea and Niederschopfheim is "down" to the sea and Oberschopfheim is "up" from the sea. Therefore Niederschopfheim is north of Oberschopfheim. There may be a more logical explanation than using the flow of the Rhine to describe location; remember I am a dumb American. If you have a map of the Baden area, you can find Offenburg. Hohberg is slightly to southwest. Niederschopfheim is a stone's futher southwest throw from Hohberg. Oberschofheim, a closer stone's throw to Niederschofheim, however, is within the consolidated town of Friesenheim which is slightly to the south, before you reach Lahr. Some years ago German towns started to be consolidated and this continued after World War II. Today one town may encompass what earlier-in-time had been several or more than several separate towns. I would suggest two URLs which might help you in pinpointing these two towns if you do not have a sufficiently-detailed map of Baden. Use < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp >, fill in Germany and the town name. After you reach the page for the town, click on "Nearest Neighbours". You will not receive a map through this search but you will obtain the latitude and longitude as well as the neighboring towns. Also go to the revised < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/LocTown.asp > web page (I actually wonder if they improved their links as heavens-above was offering more information) but follow through again for your town and here you will have the opportunity for three different on-line maps of your town (each of which can be adjusted for area; zoom in, zoom out) and now this site will also offer nearby towns and it will offer more towns as the distances offered, both in kilometers and/or miles, is a longer distance. You should note a difference in the Latitude and Longitude identified by these two sites, don't worry, from memory I believe one uses Decimal Degrees (DD) and the other uses Degrees, Minutes and Seconds (DMS). Depending on maps, it often is valuable to have both sets of Latitude and Longitude. Another suggestion, but this one will spend your money....see if your local book store has any sufficiently detailed enough maps of the Baden area of Germany. Seeing the current roads and the old valleys of Baden would help you understand how your ancestors went from one place to another. (Mair, Hallwag, Haupka all make some area maps of Germany; Michelin does too. These are mentioned because they might be the cheapest which you could find at a local book store. There are more expensive maps.) Sadly the best maps are, naturally, made in Germany and not available in the States (Landesvermessungsamt Baden-Württemberg, 1 : 25 000). djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:27 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Localities > I'm new to this list. One of my first items, of course, will be to review > the list's archives. In the meantime, can anyone tell me what is [or was] > the difference between Neiderschopfheim (from whence my ancestors > emigrated), Oberschopfheim and the present city of Schopfheim. Were the > first two suburbs of Schopfheim, did they merge to become Schopfheim, or > ........??? > > Dick >

dj: I wonder if the words Nieder and Ober might be translated as "upper" and "lower". The Ordnance Survey in England and Ireland mapped the countries here and there are many instances of townlands and other places named Upper This and Lower This. As you note, the directions don't seem to come into the reason for the Upper and Lower. Maybe as you say, it has something to do with being on a waterway, or otherwise connected with elevation. Tom Fitzsimmons.

Hello Dick, Welcome to the List. You will find it to be very friendly and helpful, I'm sure. Perhaps even find a cousin or two! You mention that your ancestors came from Niederschopfheim. Some of ours do too. Wonder what names you are interested in. Our interests are VETTER KUEHNE, KUHNE (and variants to that) HAASER METZ ELBLE MUTZ BUHRLE STADINGER BAUMANN HEITZ LEHMANN RUDOLPH CASPAR BENTZ, BAENTZ HAMMERER MAYENHAN plus a few more very distant ones Let me know if any of these match with yours. All the very best of luck with your searches. Pat Zipf Jamesburg NJ USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 2:27 PM Subject: Localities > I'm new to this list. One of my first items, of course, will be to review > the list's archives. In the meantime, can anyone tell me what is [or was] > the difference between Neiderschopfheim (from whence my ancestors > emigrated), Oberschopfheim and the present city of Schopfheim. Were the > first two suburbs of Schopfheim, did they merge to become Schopfheim, or > ........??? > > Dick > > ______________________________