A number of months ago, List member Beverly Zanon gave us the URL for the Fuzzy Gazetteer at < http://tomcat-dmaweb1.jrc.it/fuzzyg/query/ >. This site may be the most complete location available in searching a town or geography site where our spelling may not be perfect. Now another List member Frank Liepe has offered another potential great URL, < http://www.verwandt.de/karten/ >. This site is similar but more complete than < http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen/en/Default.aspx > both of which tranfer the names in the German telephone book, by PLZ location, into a map site. The site offered by Frank not only identifies by map and the specific Kreis/area but offers the number of such name listings through the country for the surname and suggests the approximate number of individuals in Germany with that one surname. I doubt that you may need this site for your Ortenau ancestor but most of us have other Germanic ancestors and, as a start, it is a clue to whether you have a rare or common surname in your search. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com