Paul, Tricky, this Rootsweb system. I had read the < gmail > message which Rootsweb bounced. (Wendelin has it set up so that I may look into such bounces, "enjoy" the Spam, have a business opportunity beyond my dreams or read the messages which come through from a second ISP. Yours was not the first of that last catagory. I'm getting too old as I am getting too lazy. My computer is turned off more than it is turned on. I unsubscribed to a number of annoying Lists some time ago and my incoming mail has dropped to where I can easily check through it on my son's faster computer and read every message online at that computer. I planned on checking your Saur line to see if I could find a connection or if I just haven't searched Hans Saur's family through enough generations....and then planned on getting back to you and to the LIst. But, from your question about Zusenhofen, I figured I had been turn this contraption on and start doing something. As compared to the Familienbuch for Oensbach, there is nothing comparable for Zusenhofen. Many of the towns of the Ortenau have histories written about them. I believe older, beyond copyright, books are many of sources Wendelin has used to give us Source listings in detail. For similar Familienbuecher books, Wendelin recently contacted the gentleman who acts as a sort of agent or middle-man in handling the books which have not been sold out. To see what towns exist in such book form, go to < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >, click on the second of the "Sources" links and the first Source on that page is a link to a very current listing of all those Ortsfamilienbuecher. An older version (it does not include all the books published in past few years) is at < http://user.baden-online.de/~ksiefert/ > which is a site of that sort of middle-man. In addition I have a PDF version sent to me by another individual in February 2006 which is in English if you would like a copy of that....to wonder about any other town. Similar information is online for Wuerttemberg and some such books for German towns have been put online after all original copies had been sold.....but again, nothing for Zusenhofen. About the Saur-Shue marriage of Zusenhofen, I know I have no Shue in my Sauer search and I am still playing with problems at both Zusenhofen and Urloffen before the one line of the family moved to Oensbach. Beverly and I have talked about our Saur problems in Zusenhofen and if the Church Registers were only easier to read and covered another generation or so, we might find an answer. You are not forgotten...I'm still trying to locate that missing woman with whom I had contact about your family. I have fears that contact may no longer be possible. List....be prepared, I will ask if any of you know her. I meant to ask you a month or so ago but as I mentioned in an earlier paragraph I'm getting too lazy (but the advantage to you is no recent Annoying Messages). djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com