Carol, Thoughts. Why did Joseph E Sauer move from Perry County to Ste Genevieve County in 1853.…only guesses are possible. I don't know exactly where the two individual towns may be in relation to each other but the counties abut. From one extreme he might have moved next door, he might have done the 19th century action of the returnees of the 20th century, moving back to the "inner city" but more likely government land was cheap and it was a deal of the century for him. More land for less money, hopefully better land. Now as to finding a Sauer-Ernst marriage in a town of the Ortenau, or just in the Ortenau or maybe somewhere in Baden could be similar to looking for a Smith-Jones marriage in some corner of the U.S. For all the towns I have researched for my Sauer ancestors, I have found only one such marriage but both surnames kept showing up in many of the towns. Your and my Sauer lines never met but you know what a big group was from the Appenweier area. My own line from Oensbach may have "started" with a 1722 marriage but following the descendants of that marriage to about 1850 took me into more than a dozen and a half towns from Oos in the north to Appenweier in the south. One of female lines ended up as far north as Karlsruhe. That 1722 start really was not a start as two Sauer brothers married in 1685 at Urloffen and the family prior to that time had been at Zusenhofen. at least from the final years of the Thirty Years War. Many of the extended Sauer family did emigrate but I have nothing on any of your names. Those two brothers from Zusenhofen who married at Urloffen married sisters with the surname of Widamer/Widemer. Memory is (I am not at my computer for this message) is that some of the early years of the Church Registers at Urloffen are not there as I do remember difficulties in trying to find the descendants of that part of the family which stayed in that town……confirming an early marriage of one of the other brothers which made his additional marriages slightly suspect, was not possible. Unless the Auswanderer list, the Offenburg information, Ancestry.com with luck of a more than complete ship Manifest offer anything on your Joseph or his brother, Anselm, we might never know which Sauer group your two brothers sprung from. While Josef, of course, is common to my line, Stefan/Stephan and Anselm are not. Luitgardis and its variations certainly fits towns of the Ortenau area but also of other Catholic parts of Baden. I'd gamble on Urloffen (cousins from my not found details on the remaining 1600's family?) but Appenweier is a good possibility based on the hope that the Ortenau was the birth location….and I probably would be completely wrong. djweber djwdjw@ix,netcom.com -------------------- -----Original Message----- >From: Carol Rogers <homealot@earthlink.net> >Sent: May 6, 2008 4:00 PM >To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Ortenau] Sauer and/or Widemer > >Hello again, > >I'm back after a break from the List and very recently discovered a Joseph >E. Sauer that purchased government land in 1853 in Ste. Genevieve, Missouri, >one plot being right next to Lawrence "Jokest". Having Sauer ancestry in >Appenweier, I did some research on this individual to find him in Ste. >Genevieve in 1860 and 1870 census, but in St. Michael, Madison Co., >Missouri, in 1880 - but in Brazeau, Perry Co., Missouri, in 1850. On a >hunch, I found his marriages and some of the older children's baptismal >records in St. Joseph's Church, Apple Creek, Perry County, where I found his >parents to be Stephan Sauer and Legard Ernst from possibly a misspelled >version of Renchen, for which town I found in a brother, Anselm's marriage >record to Mariannam Laible/Leible, son of Vincent Laible and Rosalie Widemer >from what I think is misspelling of Urlofen. "Anselmum" was listed born 16 >April 1827, and Mariannam was listed born Jun 1829. Not as much info was >listed in Joseph E. Sauer's marriage to Mary Ann Ponder, d/o Laurence Ponder >and M.A. Schrempp. There was also another Sauer family in Apple Creek at >that same time, but that family is listed from a town in Prussia. Is anyone >studying this Sauer line? I'm wondering what made Joseph E. decide to move >from Perry County to Ste. Genevieve, unless he previously knew some families >from towns north of Offenburg that immigrated to Ste. Genevieve. > >Carol Rogers > >