Jeanne, I do apologize for the delay, but I'm first now really looking through some of these connections that you pointed out in the e-mail below. I'm recognizing several common surnames we have in our ancestry. The one that surprised me when looking through your Greminger marriages is Henry Greminger married to Barbara Palmer, with Barbara's father from Ebersweier. Ebersweier is where my Ketterer, Churfurst/Kurfurst, Basler, Sauer lines were located. Barbara's paternal grandparents were Fidel Palmer mg. to Francisca Heitz. Francisca's parents were my direct ancestors. You might have found this already - Francisca's sister, Genevieve Heitz, married Martin Bahr in Ortenberg. Their daughter, Cecilia/Zaezilia, married Michael Jokerst in Ste. Genevieve County, New Offenburg area. Then you know that their daughter, Mathilda Jokerst mg. William Fritsch, my great grandparents. It is through William Fritsch that I have direct ancestral surnames of Litterst, Gegg, Woerter, Vetter, and Schaub - some common surnames to some you mentioned. That is my second Schaub line (vs. the one that runs off of my Windschlag Fischer line), that connects to the Niederschopfheim Schaubs. You mentioned Brischle, which is not a direct ancestor surname of mine. However, the Vincent Brischle who mg. Maria Magdalena Kurfurst in Weier connects to my Kurfurst, I believe. Magdalena, as she went by later, had paternal grandparents Franz Joseph Churfurst and Magdalena Jockerst who married in Windschlag. Franz Joseph was s/o Francis Churfurst and Magdalena Lausmann who can be found in Buhl marriage records. My Christian Churfurst/Curfurst who married 26 Jan 1728 in Ebersweier had father listed as Johann Churfurst from Hofweier and brother, Franz Churfurst from Ebersweier as a witness. There were no records found in Ebersweier on Franz, and only one Churfurst family recorded in Hofweier: Johann Churfurst married to Clara Himelspach (Oberkirch) Children: Franz Anton 7.1.1698 Maria Salomia 22.5.1701 Ambrosius 6.4.1704 Catherine 10.11.1706 I believe the Franz Anton might be the "Franz" that was married in Buhl to Maria Anna Carle from Weier in 1723. I'm now wondering if Maria Anna died and this same "Franz" was the Francis Churfurst who married Magdalena Lausmann who I found in Buhl marriage records in 1735. Perhaps Franz Anton went by his first name rather than the typical middle name as many did back then. I'm also wondering if my Christian Churfurst who married in Ebersweier was the same Ambrosius found in Hofweier. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the towns I've searched, I do not find many Churfurst/Kurfurst records at all around Offenburg. You pointed out John Krussel's site which I'm also quite familiar with, and in the multitude of surnames he has listed, there are no Kurfurst or Churfurst surnames. I've had to add a few people in my database to more clearly view some of the surname/families you listed as connecting to mine. Thanks for pointing those out! Carol -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Jeanne M. Bornefeld Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:36 PM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gietle from Hofweier Thanks for the reply. Just looking at some of your names/families: Anna Maria Fritsch m Mathias Hurst. Mathias Hurst was the father of Mathias Hurst who m Anna Maria Basler, whose parents were Nicolaus Basler and Anna Maria May. Mathias and Helena were the parents of Helena Hurst who married Franz Mathaus Greminger. They were the parents of Henry Greminger who married Johanna Basler. John Greminger was the grandfather of my grandfather, Nicholas George Greminger. Many of my lines married into or married others who were related to the Geggs. Martin Worter married Maria Magdalena Damm and had a son , Martin. Martin married Maria Anna Schaub and had: Anna Maria, Francisca, Helena, Michael, Joannes George, Elisabeth, Joannes Baptist. I work from the original records. It is alweays possible that a child may be missing, or that I failed to see them. I descend from Anna Maria who married Jacob Rubi. He was a son of Martin Rubi and Anna Maria Stellwog. Theresia Rubi, d/o Jacob and Anna Maria married Andrea Isenmann. Andrea Isenmann was a son of Martin Isenmann who was a s/o of Jacon Isenmann. Martin married Anna Maria Stutz who was a d/o Joannes Michael Stutz and Anna Barbara Worter. Andrea Isenmann and Therersia Rubi had John Baptist Isenmann, who married Mary Ann Littenecker. They had Joseph Eisenmann who was the father of my grandfather's grandfather's wife, Mary Ann Eisenmann. The Eisenmann's, Gegg's, Brischle's, Gremmingers, Litterst's, Jokerst's, etc...many of these people are either directly related or distantly related, or in some cases, closely related. John Krussel has done a wonderful job with his research. I think I remember the only thing we are not in the same mind about is my grandfather's mother, Mary Ann Eisenmann. I have the family records, pictures, letters, grandpa's stuff, that says she was Mary Ann. I don't know where the misstep was and haven't looked for it, or the reason for it. I knew relatives that knew her when they visited Evansville, Indiana, where grandpa and grandma lived. I have visited the relatives before they passed away in Windthorst, and haven't a clue where the mistake was made - or if there was a reason for the mistake to be made. It may have been a misstep by the person writing down the record. I do know that Mary Ann's brother, Frank, did not marry but went with his sister, Mary Ann, and helped her out with the kids. I have a picture of them together in Texas. It seems her husband was something of a philanderer. I hope lightening does not strike me for that one. I was fortunate to have had this interest from the time I could walk because I have described my Uncle Anton, grandma's mother's brother when I saw him at a family gathering, with music on the steps of a porch, in the country, when I was under two years old - he died when I was two years of age. My mother was stunned that I remembered that particular gathering because she had almost forgotten it. I repeatedly questioned the relationships of various relatives and started writing down things when I was a grade schooler. I interviewed the grandchildren of the immigrants of my grandmother's family when I was in my teens. Go figure. I am thankful that I had this curiosity. Jeanne Bornefeld

I've relabeled the "subject" from the e-mail below as I've found something else to add to the information regarding Churfurst from Ebersweier and Hofweier that I previously sent in. There is a marriage record in Niederschopfheim on 27 November 1730 where Caspar Burckert married Salomea Churfurst, d/o Christian Churfurst, deceased from Hofweier. As listed below, there was a Maria Salomia born in Hofweier on 22 May 1701 to the only Churfurst family listed in early records and family church book. However, that Maria Salomia had father listed as Johannes. This could not be the Christian Churfurst who married in Ebersweier in 1728 who also had father listed as Johannes because he had 10 children between 1728-1747. So it is my feeling that the Christian identified in his Ebersweier marriage record as son of Johannes Churfurst from Hofweier was a sister of this Salomea Churfurst who married in Niederschopfheim, and their father was perhaps Johannes Christian or Christian Johannes. This name was found in earlier records with various spellings, but evolved into Kurfurst by the 1800's. Has anyone else been researching this family? Wish I had some definite proof of my theory. Carol -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Carol Rogers Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:51 AM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gietle from Hofweier >You mentioned Brischle, which is not a direct ancestor surname of mine. However, the Vincent Brischle who mg. Maria Magdalena Kurfurst in Weier connects to my Kurfurst, I believe. Magdalena, as she went by later, had paternal grandparents Franz Joseph Churfurst and Magdalena Jockerst who married in Windschlag. Franz Joseph was s/o Francis Churfurst and Magdalena Lausmann who can be found in Buhl marriage records. My Christian Churfurst/Curfurst who married 26 Jan 1728 in Ebersweier had father listed as Johann Churfurst from Hofweier and brother, Franz Churfurst from Ebersweier as a witness. There were no records found in Ebersweier on Franz, and only one Churfurst family recorded in Hofweier: Johann Churfurst married to Clara Himelspach (Oberkirch) Children: Franz Anton 7.1.1698 Maria Salomia 22.5.1701 Ambrosius 6.4.1704 Catherine 10.11.1706 I believe the Franz Anton might be the "Franz" that was married in Buhl to Maria Anna Carle from Weier in 1723. I'm now wondering if Maria Anna died and this same "Franz" was the Francis Churfurst who married Magdalena Lausmann who I found in Buhl marriage records in 1735. Perhaps Franz Anton went by his first name rather than the typical middle name as many did back then. I'm also wondering if my Christian Churfurst who married in Ebersweier was the same Ambrosius found in Hofweier. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the towns I've searched, I do not find many Churfurst/Kurfurst records at all around Offenburg.<