Where might I find records of the requests for emigration from the town of Waltersweier near Offenburg that an individual would have needed to get permission from Germany to move to North America. Bernard Vetter of Waltersweier left Baden around 1815-1816. I understand that these records are often full of information on the individual as all debts would have had to have been settled before he/she could have left. Has anyone seen such records? Greg Hilton _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld

Greg, Six possible answers... Wendelin will know and will answer your question. Another member of this List may have run into the same question for their emigrant ancestor from Waltersweier. The original permit is on file at the Town Hall of Waltersweier or at a neighboring town known only to a researcher familiar with the area and the record-keeping methods of the area. The original permit was forwarded to a particular Archive, perhaps Karlsruhe or Freiburg and would be available for a cost....again possibly something known only to a very few German researchers. The Permit you want and hundreds of other permits were sold as scrap paper to a local Paper Mill a hundred or so years ago. Over the centuries paper has had its cycles of scarcity and in many areas recycled paper was not and is not a new Go-Green activity. (Or the Town needed the money from the sale of their old papers.) Your ancestor left the Grand Duchy without legal authority and no such Permit exists. May we hope that your answer will be from one of the first four thoughts. I have seen such documents from areas north of the Ortenau, both in Baden and in other former Germanic countries. In most cases, they are very complete in details on the individual, his family, his finances and the Town Council willingness to allow the family to emigrate. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Hilton" <grhilton@msn.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: [Ortenau] (no subject) Where might I find records of the requests for emigration from the town of Waltersweier near Offenburg that an individual would have needed to get permission from Germany to move to North America. Bernard Vetter of Waltersweier left Baden around 1815-1816. I understand that these records are often full of information on the individual as all debts would have had to have been settled before he/she could have left. Has anyone seen such records? Greg Hilton

Greg, When my Spahnle family left Ichenheim they signed such a document. I have a copy of this document as it was part of the Ichenheim kinship book. If you like I can scan it and send to your email address so you can see what it looks like. Maurine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Hilton" <grhilton@msn.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:55 PM Subject: [Ortenau] (no subject) Where might I find records of the requests for emigration from the town of Waltersweier near Offenburg that an individual would have needed to get permission from Germany to move to North America. Bernard Vetter of Waltersweier left Baden around 1815-1816. I understand that these records are often full of information on the individual as all debts would have had to have been settled before he/she could have left. Has anyone seen such records? Greg Hilton _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greg: If I can interject with a question. Are you trying to find the origin of your ancestor or just the information on the permit(s)? Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Permission to Emigrate Permit > Greg, > > Six possible answers... > > Wendelin will know and will answer your question. > > Another member of this List may have run into the same question for their > emigrant ancestor from Waltersweier. > > The original permit is on file at the Town Hall of Waltersweier or at a > neighboring town known only to a researcher familiar with the area and the > record-keeping methods of the area. > > The original permit was forwarded to a particular Archive, perhaps > Karlsruhe > or Freiburg and would be available for a cost....again possibly something > known only to a very few German researchers. > > The Permit you want and hundreds of other permits were sold as scrap paper > to a local Paper Mill a hundred or so years ago. Over the centuries paper > has had its cycles of scarcity and in many areas recycled paper was not > and > is not a new Go-Green activity. (Or the Town needed the money from the > sale > of their old papers.) > > Your ancestor left the Grand Duchy without legal authority and no such > Permit exists. > > May we hope that your answer will be from one of the first four thoughts. > > I have seen such documents from areas north of the Ortenau, both in Baden > and in other former Germanic countries. In most cases, they are very > complete in details on the individual, his family, his finances and the > Town > Council willingness to allow the family to emigrate. > > djweber > djwdjw@ix.netcom.com > ------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Hilton" <grhilton@msn.com> > To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:55 PM > Subject: [Ortenau] (no subject) > > > > Where might I find records of the requests for emigration from the town of > Waltersweier near Offenburg that an individual would have needed to get > permission from Germany to move to North America. > > Bernard Vetter of Waltersweier left Baden around 1815-1816. I understand > that these records are often full of information on the individual as all > debts would have had to have been settled before he/she could have left. > > Has anyone seen such records? > > Greg Hilton > > > >

Howard, because the webpage at http://emigration-offenburg.de says that Bernhard Mareis was active in the Baden revolution he is maybe mentioned in 2 books. One book about Offenburg in the years 1848/49. And a second with title "Revolutionäre in Baden 1848/49" by Heinrich Raab. When I visit a library I can check both books (if none of our members has one that books). It seems the city directoriy of Offenburg start with 1868 (I believe the next is from 1876) so it is maybe possible to find out where the Mareis family lived (if there was still a family member in Offenburg). Unfortunately the city directories are not available online but in the archive in Offenburg. - Wendelin On Sun, 18 May 2008 09:51:07 EDT West24th@aol.com wrote: > I'm looking for any information in regard to the parents names & > death record & place for Bernard Mareis born about 1815 & his wife > Victoria Oswald born about 1813 in Offenberg, Baden Germany. Their > sons George & Friedericjk Josef Mareis immigrated to New York City in > the 1860s.Any further information would be appreciated . Thank you in > advance. Howard West24th@aol.com

Paul, The ending list of Saur(s) might be easier for us. If you could give us Anna Maria Saur, born in 1769 to her parents, there might be some angle to work into the earlier Saur family members of Zusenhofen. The early Registers are a bit confusing to try to work down to her. Armbruster and Reiser fit into Önsbach although your Reiser father was born in Zusenhofen. The first child of the Reiser-Siffermann marriage was your Richardis. For Armbruster..... Anton Armbruster-Theresia Zink Franz Ignaz Armbruster-Maria Anna Ell Georg Armbruster-Elisabeth Gerwitz Christian Armbruster-Magdalena Maisch Christian Armbruster-unknown takes you to the start of the Church Registers. I knew that some of your wanted details would be in the recently printed Familienbuch of the town of Önsbach. Rose Goutbeck sent me a note reminding me of the Reiser and Armbruster families as listed there. I do suggest that you attempt to purchase this Önsbach book.....expensive, today, at the cost of Euros versus Dollars but well worth the investment. Don't count on this definition as being of any value as I have never found a cross-legged Weaver plying his trade in my Weber ancestry but from < http://tr62.de/occupations/groups.htm > (and hopefully, it still exists), Section 1.3.g, "smith (and founder) making weapons and guns", "crossbow maker", the word armbruster is identified as a trade/occupation name which fits into that specific category. Something just thrown in----of no true value in your genealogical search. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <pfarmbruster@aol.com> To: <DEU-BAD-ORTENAU@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 6:37 AM Subject: [Ortenau] Saur from Zusenhoffen - 1600-1700 > Hello list! I'm new here, although djweber has forwarded some of my > mailings here already, Thanks!. > In addition to the information that was forwarded here is more information > on the Sau(e)r line I have from Zusenhoffen. > It's been well over 10 years since I've looked at the microfilm, but I do > remember that at the time I was a little uneasy about some of the > relationships here, mainly because there seemed to be a lot of Hans Saur > listed. I wasn't always sure that they were the same person. I copied the > info anyway and made a note of my concerns. Here is the starting list of > Saurs: > > HANS SAUR was born in December 1662 in Zusenhofen, Germany > to Hans Saur and Margarita (Unknown). > Source: LDS Film #0958811 (Birth). > CATHERINA (UNKNOWN) was born before 1685 in Zusenhofen, Germany. > > Hans Saur married Catherina (Unknown). They had three children: > > Norbert Saur in 1693 > > Joannis Michaelis Saur in 1704 > > Joanna Mordinus? Saur in 1708 > > ? > > HANS SAUR was born before 1640 in Zusenhofen, Germany > to Hans Saur and Catherina (Unknown). Hans died after 1663, when > older than 23, in Zusenhofen, Germany. > > MARGARITA (UNKNOWN) was born before 1640 in Zusenhofen, Germany. > Margarita died after 1663, when older than 23, in Zusenhofen, Germany. > > Hans Saur married Margarita (Unknown). They had one > son: > Hans Saur in 1662 > ? > HANS SAUR was born before 1610 in Zusenhofen, Germany. > Hans died in 1649, when older than 39, in Zusenhofen, Germany. > > CATHERINA (UNKNOWN) was born before 1610 in Zusenhofen, Germany. > > Hans Saur married Catherina (Unknown). They had one > son: > > Hans Saur before 1640

Hello list! I'm new here, although djweber has forwarded some of my mailings here already, Thanks!. In addition to the information that was forwarded here is more information on the Sau(e)r line I have from Zusenhoffen. It's been well over 10 years since I've looked at the microfilm, but I do remember that at the time I was a little uneasy about some of the relationships here, mainly because there seemed to be a lot of Hans Saur listed. I wasn't always sure that they were the same person. I copied the info anyway and made a note of my concerns. Here is the starting list of Saurs: HANS SAUR was born in December 1662 in Zusenhofen, Germany to Hans Saur and Margarita (Unknown). Source: LDS Film #0958811 (Birth). CATHERINA (UNKNOWN) was born before 1685 in Zusenhofen, Germany. Hans Saur married Catherina (Unknown). They had three children: Norbert Saur in 1693 Joannis Michaelis Saur in 1704 Joanna Mordinus? Saur in 1708 ? HANS SAUR was born before 1640 in Zusenhofen, Germany to Hans Saur and Catherina (Unknown). Hans died after 1663, when older than 23, in Zusenhofen, Germany. MARGARITA (UNKNOWN) was born before 1640 in Zusenhofen, Germany. Margarita died after 1663, when older than 23, in Zusenhofen, Germany. Hans Saur married Margarita (Unknown). They had one son: Hans Saur in 1662 ? HANS SAUR was born before 1610 in Zusenhofen, Germany. Hans died in 1649, when older than 39, in Zusenhofen, Germany. CATHERINA (UNKNOWN) was born before 1610 in Zusenhofen, Germany. Hans Saur married Catherina (Unknown). They had one son: Hans Saur before 1640

Paul, I am forwarding directly to the Ortenau List your information about some of your specific names. With your Saur line from Zusenhofen, although my original line does go back there....I have the "starting" family with children born between 1652 and 1662 it appears as though they all moved to Urloffen and Church Register details are too skimpy for that time period to know if any collateral Saur relatives might be involved for any remaining Zusenhofen families. I do remember (in part) some direct e-mail messages a number of years ago from a woman about Reiser-Saur family but as it did not fit my line I kept few notes and immediately I can not find them. When I find them, I will send them on to you. However, it is possible that Rose may have details on your Önsbach Armbruster line and with your Saur line being from Zusenhofen, that bad memory of mine suggests that Beverly from this List may have some hints for you. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ---------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <pfarmbruster@aol.com> To: <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: Paul, I have about ten of those surnames in my Sur/Saur/Sauer data DJ, My Great-great Grandfather and Grandmother, Theobald and Richarda (Reiser) Armbruster, came to the United States in about 1854, settling originally in Carbon County, PA. They moved to WIkes-Barre, PA in about 1872. Theobald was the son of Anton Armbruster (b. 24 Dec 1801) and Therese Zink, (b. 01 Sep 1804) both of Önsbach. Anton and Therese had 7 children: Eduard Armbruster Dominicus Armbruster Chrysostomus Armbruster Theobald Armbruster (2 of this name, the first died at about 2 months of age in 1833) Ignaz Armbruster Maria Eva Armbruster Anton Armbruster (if I read the Churchbook correctly) was the son of Ignatius Armbruster (b. 16 Jan 1754, d. 13 Feb 1828) and Maria Anna Ell (b. 22 May 1756). I am slightly uneasy about this only because there seems to be a 6 year gap between the last child, Anton, and the previous birth Johanna Armbruster. Richarda Reiser was the daughter of Joseph Reiser (b. 20 Sep 1802, d. 27 Sep 1858) and M. Ana Sifferman (b. 06 Jun 1795, d. 11 Nov 1866). Their children were: Richarda Reiser Ludgarde Reiser Francisca Reiser Joseph Reiser Joseph Reiser was the son of Ignatz Reiser (b. Abt. 1767) and Anna Maria Sauer (b. 16 Apr 1769 in Zusenhoffen, Germany). Their children were: Joseph Reiser Anton Reiser Bernard Reiser Anna Maria Sauer was the daugther of Franciscus Michael Saur (b. 09 May 1738 in Zusenhoffen, Germany) and Agnes Shue. I hope this helps, if you need more just let me know. I hope you can confirm (or disprove) any of these connections. Most of the data comes from the LDS films such as LDS Film #0995091. But as you might know, reading Latin written in Gothic script on paper that bleeds the ink isn't easy so I may have misread some things. Anyway I hope to hear from you again. Paul

Paul, I have researched the Church Registers for Önsbach. I might be able to fit a couple of your names into my files. I did stop in my search about the 1830-1850 era, though. Armbruster, Reiser, Gerwitz, Hodapp, Saur, Boshert, Vogl, Ott, Harter, Ell and Pfeiffer are particular surnames I remember without digging into my database. Maybe a few of the others (partially) went through my Saur family. Give me some first names. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- > > I am Paul Armbruster, I am researching my family from the town of Önsbach. > The family names include, Armbruster, Reiser, Sifferman, Gerwitz, Hodapp, > Sauer (Saur, Boschert,Vogel, Ott, Harter, Schue, Zink, Ell, Rumel, Haupt, > and Pfeiffer. > I would like access to this site if possible. Thanks, > Paul > >

This message is from a new List member, Paul Armbruster, < pfarmbruster@aol.com >. I am relaying it for him as both this message and his subscription notice were received by Rootsweb at roughly the same time but Rootsweb accepted the message before allowing the subscription to be entered. The result was that the message to the List was denied. See the message below....and Rose, I imagine you and I may be the first who will respond to Mr Armbruster based upon the Önsbach surnames listed. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com The Message is copied below: I am Paul Armbruster, I am researching my family from the town of Önsbach. The family names include, Armbruster, Reiser, Sifferman, Gerwitz, Hodapp, Sauer (Saur, Boschert,Vogel, Ott, Harter, Schue, Zink, Ell, Rumel, Haupt, and Pfeiffer. I would like access to this site if possible. Thanks, Paul

I'm looking for any information in regard to the parents names & death record & place for Bernard Mareis born about 1815 & his wife Victoria Oswald born about 1813 in Offenberg, Baden Germany. Their sons George & Friedericjk Josef Mareis immigrated to New York City in the 1860s.Any further information would be appreciated . Thank you in advance. Howard West24th@aol.com **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

Thanks for your help Wendelin...I sent an e-mail this morning. Hope for the best! Darrel

Darrel, I have no additional information so I don't know the shipping fees. The website at www.friesenheim.de has a contact form under "Kontakt". Let me know if you need a German translation of your message. - Wendelin On Wed, 14 May 2008 16:41:16 -0500 "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> wrote: > Can you supply a total price with shipping and an address please? I > would like to order the book. I already have the OSB for Oberweier. > > Thanks > Darrel Hunter dar7ter@comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wendelin > Irslinger > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:06 PM > To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Ortenau] Ortsfamilienbuch (kinship book) Heiligenzell > > Hello, > > ich habe gelesen dass das Ortsfamilienbuch für Heiligenzell > mittlerweile verfügbar ist. Man kann es im Rathaus von > Friesenheim oder Heiligenzell für 40 Euro kaufen (falls es nicht > ausverkauft ist). > > I read the kinship book for Heiligenzell is meanwhile available. You > can buy it (if it's not sold out) in the townhall of Friesenheim or > Heiligenzell for 40 Euros. > > - Wendelin >

Hello, ich habe gelesen dass das Ortsfamilienbuch für Heiligenzell mittlerweile verfügbar ist. Man kann es im Rathaus von Friesenheim oder Heiligenzell für 40 Euro kaufen (falls es nicht ausverkauft ist). I read the kinship book for Heiligenzell is meanwhile available. You can buy it (if it's not sold out) in the townhall of Friesenheim or Heiligenzell for 40 Euros. - Wendelin

Can you supply a total price with shipping and an address please? I would like to order the book. I already have the OSB for Oberweier. Thanks Darrel Hunter dar7ter@comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wendelin Irslinger Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:06 PM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: [Ortenau] Ortsfamilienbuch (kinship book) Heiligenzell Hello, ich habe gelesen dass das Ortsfamilienbuch für Heiligenzell mittlerweile verfügbar ist. Man kann es im Rathaus von Friesenheim oder Heiligenzell für 40 Euro kaufen (falls es nicht ausverkauft ist). I read the kinship book for Heiligenzell is meanwhile available. You can buy it (if it's not sold out) in the townhall of Friesenheim or Heiligenzell for 40 Euros. - Wendelin ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dan, Again I am a failure. I do not have a marriage date for Ludan Joggerst and Kunigunde Wiegele. This lack probably results from my method of researching side families. I start with the emigrant ancestor, in this case Landelin Saur and I try to work back to the earliest recorded ancestor. Then I do a reverse and pick up as much information on those side relatives whom I can locate....sometimes a lot of information and sometimes almost nothing. For Landelin who emigrated from Grossweier with work, effort and help from Rose and her cousins (Rolf actually found the birth location for me), I went back through three Johannes Sur/Saur at Oensabch. After finding the direct line details, I then started with the earliest Johannes and worked a Tree downwards of as many of his descendants as I could locate reaching to Landelin's childrens era. At that point I thought I was lost and done with the family but as I had not found Johannes' birth record, I searched about a dozen and a half additional towns for his 1700 baptism. I found his marriage and his baptism at Urloffen and was able to locate details on the two earlier Urloffen and Zusenhofen generations. This meant that I now had a new start, two generations earlier, for a downward tree and more to research to equal approximately 1850. I attempted to pick up what I could on the new sets of direct descendants although my efforts may not have been as diligent as in my search upwards from Landelin. By a direct e-mail I will send you what details I have gathered on the ancestry of Kunigunde Wiegele. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com -------------------- -----Original Message----- >From: Dan Bravard <dbravard2@insight.rr.com> >Sent: May 12, 2008 8:12 AM >To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com >Cc: Urloffen Mail List <deu-bad-urloffen-request@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Jockerst/Jokerst/Joggerst, etc > >DJWeber: > >At last I connect with another Urloffen descendant! I also have a Ludan >Joggerst, son of Joannes Michael Joggerst and Maria Magdalena Wernerin. > >Would you happen to have the marriage date for Ludan and Kunigunde Wiegele? > >Thanks, > >Dan

Maurine - I have a photocopy of the Dundenheim Ortsippenbuch. I tried to locate a copy available for sale on the secondary market for a number of years and finally was able to borrow a copy through inter-library loan. I have never seen a copy available for sale. I would be happy to do some lookups for your friend in Paris. Jim --- LeBlanc <leblanc@outreachinternet.com> wrote: > Wendelin, > > There is a man in France whom I have been > communicating with that wants to purchase the > kinship book for Dundenheim. Would you please advise > me if it is possible to purchase the book at this > time? If so please let me know the address and price > and I will give him that information. Thank you in > advance! > > Maurine > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Carol, Dan, As to Josef Joggerst married to Maria Magdalena Saur, I do have some blanks. I have not recorded Josef's parents, so I assume that when I found the marriage, Josef had been widowed and this was a second or third marriage. I should have the film on Extended so I will recheck the 1737 marriage details to see if a town or any additional information is identified. I do know that Josef died on October 28, 1752 and Magdalena next married in 1753 a Mathias Schneider. (I have found seven children born to the Josef-Magdalena married but only daughter Maria Eva may have married--she married Josef Schelli in 1765) ----- On to another I have the marriage of Ludan Joggerst (1783-1840, son of Michael Joggerst and Magdalena Werner) and Kunigunde Wiegele (1786-1836) which also ties in with the Saur family of Urloffen. Kunigunde fits into the Saur family, father Franz Josef Wiegele, grandmother Agatha Kieffer, great-grandmother Margaretha Saur, great-great-grandparents Hans Melchoir Saur and Catharina Widamer. I'll check out Josef. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com

DJWeber: At last I connect with another Urloffen descendant! I also have a Ludan Joggerst, son of Joannes Michael Joggerst and Maria Magdalena Wernerin. Would you happen to have the marriage date for Ludan and Kunigunde Wiegele? Thanks, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Jockerst/Jokerst/Joggerst, etc > Carol, Dan, > > As to Josef Joggerst married to Maria Magdalena Saur, I do have some > blanks. > I have not recorded Josef's parents, so I assume that when I found the > marriage, Josef had been widowed and this was a second or third marriage. > I > should have the film on Extended so I will recheck the 1737 marriage > details > to see if a town or any additional information is identified. I do know > that Josef died on October 28, 1752 and Magdalena next married in 1753 a > Mathias Schneider. (I have found seven children born to the > Josef-Magdalena > married but only daughter Maria Eva may have married--she married Josef > Schelli in 1765) > ----- > On to another I have the marriage of Ludan Joggerst (1783-1840, son of > Michael Joggerst and Magdalena Werner) and Kunigunde Wiegele (1786-1836) > which also ties in with the Saur family of Urloffen. Kunigunde fits into > the Saur family, father Franz Josef Wiegele, grandmother Agatha Kieffer, > great-grandmother Margaretha Saur, great-great-grandparents Hans Melchoir > Saur and Catharina Widamer. > > I'll check out Josef. > > djweber > djwdjw@ix.netcom.com > > >

DJWeber: In my database I have 3 Josef Joggersts: one born 1734, another 1699, and another 1719. Unfortunately, I don't have a wife documented for any of the 3. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Jockerst/Jokerst/Joggerst, etc > Dan, Carol, anyone.... > > If your family search includes as a side-relative the Josef Joggerest who > died at Urloffen in 1752 and was married to Maria Magdalena Saur,I have > picked up some details on the wife as she fits into my (limited and > confused) Urloffen Sauer chase. > > djweber > djwdjw@ix.netcom.com > >