Greetings, A L McAdam, I have SCHUTTERWALD church records [baptism, marriage & death] microfilm on permanent loan at my Family History Center where I volunteer [see below].? If you haven't ordered this film and gone thru it, I can do that for you as time permits; I volunteer and the patrons come first.? Let me know if you'd like me to do the look up for you.? If you do, please send me as much information as you can.? Names, dates, etc will?help me go thru the film more efficiently.? Taufen 1683-1709 Heiraten 1676-1732 Tote 1676-1733 Taufen 1709-1725, 1748-1759, 1699-1709 Heiraten 1676-1679?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949959 Item 1 ] Taufen 1725-1748 Heiraten 1732-1753 Tote 1733-1754 Tote (Kinder) 1740-1747 Taufen (nicht in Reihenfolge) 1749-1752?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949959 Item 2 ] Taufen 1754-1813, 1810-1826?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949959 Items 3-6 ] Taufen 1826-1881?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949960 Items 1-3 ] Taufen, Tote 1881-1895?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949960 Item 4 ] Taufen, Tote 1894-1900?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949961 Item 1 ] Heiraten 1754-1813, 1810-1900?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949961 Items 2-5 ] Tote 1754-1801?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949961 Item 6 ] Tote 1802-1813, 1810-1881?-? FHL INTL Film [ 949962 ] Beverly Mack Zanon Researching SCHUTTERWALD Hansmann & Studer among others ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: 1 AND 2 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:43:10 -0500 From: "djweber" <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <01ea01c8f10c$befd9310$a9eb9f04@S0029330476> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I know NOTHING about Schutterwald, the Heitz family or the Schaub family but if Robert and Philippine traveled together on the same ship to America (and usually if their names are on adjoining lines on the Manifest) you have a fairly certain chance that they were married before they left Baden. Most Masters of both German line and French line ships followed the central-European custom and listed the wife with her maiden name on the Manifest. Just as in the French-Canadian area of North America, the wife carried her birth name to her death. According to the booklet for Baden-W?rttemberg, "The Atlantic Bridge to Germany" by Charles M Hall, the LDS has filmed the Catholic Church Registers for Schutterwald starting with Rite entries of 1676. If this family were mine, I would start with the filmed marriage records covering the year 1853 and work my way backwards in time for about four or five years to see if the couple did marry in Schutterwald (sadly, there is the chance that Philippine was from a nearby town and the marriage took place in her town). If they married in Schutterwald, their marriage record most probably would offer you details on them and on their parents. After that, it is merely generation after generation back to that 1676 time but the information would be from the films and not from any LDS online information. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald > Hello List Members: > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert Heitz > (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left Schutterwald for the > U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine Schaub (b. 1829), also from > Schutterwald. Robert married Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I have > been unable to find any other information. I have searched Ancestry.com, > the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg website, and every > other place that I can think of, all to no avail. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > A.L. McAdam ------------------------------ To contact the DEU-BAD-ORTENAU list administrator, send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the DEU-BAD-ORTENAU mailing list, send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Digest, Vol 3, Issue 101 ***********************************************

I know NOTHING about Schutterwald, the Heitz family or the Schaub family but if Robert and Philippine traveled together on the same ship to America (and usually if their names are on adjoining lines on the Manifest) you have a fairly certain chance that they were married before they left Baden. Most Masters of both German line and French line ships followed the central-European custom and listed the wife with her maiden name on the Manifest. Just as in the French-Canadian area of North America, the wife carried her birth name to her death. According to the booklet for Baden-Württemberg, "The Atlantic Bridge to Germany" by Charles M Hall, the LDS has filmed the Catholic Church Registers for Schutterwald starting with Rite entries of 1676. If this family were mine, I would start with the filmed marriage records covering the year 1853 and work my way backwards in time for about four or five years to see if the couple did marry in Schutterwald (sadly, there is the chance that Philippine was from a nearby town and the marriage took place in her town). If they married in Schutterwald, their marriage record most probably would offer you details on them and on their parents. After that, it is merely generation after generation back to that 1676 time but the information would be from the films and not from any LDS online information. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald > Hello List Members: > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert Heitz > (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left Schutterwald for the > U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine Schaub (b. 1829), also from > Schutterwald. Robert married Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I have > been unable to find any other information. I have searched Ancestry.com, > the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg website, and every > other place that I can think of, all to no avail. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > A.L. McAdam

Hello List Members: I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left Schutterwald for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I have been unable to find any other information. I have searched Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail. Any help would be greatly appreciated. A.L. McAdam

>From searching for details at Wendelin's Companion Pages (of this List) I have wondered about how many hours he has spent in Libraries, at Archives, in Town Records, wherever he needed to go to compile so much genealogical information for us on so many towns of the Ortenau. If you have not read about your ancestors' home town or seached your family surname in those pages, you may be missing vital information. A surname search gave me a sufficient hint that I was able to expand one of my searches by several generations....into additional towns. Use those pages: < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de > and < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. They are the best online source for Ortenau genealogical information. There are other online information which can add current and general information about those home towns you are searching. Many Towns have their own web sites and there are number Baden tourism pages, particularly on the Baden Wine "road". This information is, of course, in the German language and usually in a more complicated German than in Wendelin's pages but, if not the words, many of the pictures are worthwhile to view. While they will show you your town today, you can imagine what your ancestor seeing the same hills and the same forests....and if the town is in the grape-growing area, your ancestor may have seen similar vineyards as in today's online pictures. Go into a Town web page, check out every Link and every Link on the linked pages. These Town pages may have a few clues to help you understand that other language. If there is a British "Union Jack" flag on the page, this would mean that at least that one page is also available in the English language. Gästebuch suggest a Guest Book. Geschichte could lead you to the only possible genealogical information on the site, a Town History. Ortsplan or a similar word should be a Link to a town map. Rathaus should be a listing of details pertaining to the Town, officials, services, hours, etc. Tourismus or a similar word suggests tourist details of interest and perhaps what special happenings are planned for the near future. Willkommen is the Town's welcome to you to learn about the Germans of that town. I have not included any of the Baden Tourist web sites but, below, are many of the URLs for the official town sites of towns of the Ortenau. Not all the consolidated towns are listed and some of the individual towns which were merged into those consolidated towns may even have their own web site....some of those towns are included. Achern < http://www.achern.de/ > Appenweier < http://www.appenweier.de/ > Bad Peterstal-Griesbach < http://gemeinde.bad-peterstal-griesbach.de/servlet/PB/menu/-1/index.html > Berghaupten < http://www.berghaupten.de/ > Biberach < http://www.biberach.de/ > Bottenau < http://www.oberkirch.de/bottenau/ > Durbach < http://www.durbach.de/ > Ettenheim < http://www.ettenheim.de/dynasite.cfm?dssid=4259 > Fautenbach < http://www.fautenbach.de/ > Fischerbach < http://www.fischerbach.de/fr_gem.htm > Friesenheim < http://www.friesenheim.de/ > Gutach < http://www.gutach-schwarzwald.de/frameset.php > Grossweier < http://grossweier.fricar.de/index.html > Haslach < http://www.haslach.de/servlet/PB/menu/1088194/index.html > Hausach < http://www.hausach.de/ > Hofstetten < http://www.hofstetten-schwarzwald.de/ > Hohberg < http://www.hohberg.de/content/show/de_DE > Hornberg < http://www.hornberg.de/servlet/PB/menu/-1/index.html > Kappel-Grafenhausen < http://www.kappel-grafenhausen.de/ > Kappelrodeck < http://www.kappelrodeck.de/ > Kehl < http://www.kehl.de/ > Kippenheim < http://www.kippenheim.de/de/index.php > Lahr < http://www.lahr.de/ > Mahlberg < http://www.mahlberg.de/ > Meissenheim < http://www.meissenheim.de/ > Muehlenbach < http://www.muehlenbach.de/muehlenbach.htm > Neuried < http://www.neuried.net/html_de/index.cfm > Nordrach < http://www.nordrach.de/ > Nussbach < http://www.oberkirch.de/nussbach/ > Oberkirch < http://www.oberkirch.de/ > Oberhammersbach < http://www.oberharmersbach.de/ > Oberwolfach < http://www.oberwolfach.de/ > Oedsbach < http://www.oberkirch.de/oedsbach/ > Oensbach < http://www.oensbach.de/ > Offenburg < http://www.offenburg.de/ > Ohlsbach < http://www.ohlsbach.de/ > Oppenau < http://www.oppenau.de/ > Ortenberg < http://www.ortenberg.de/index2.htm > Ottenhoefen < http://www.ottenhoefen.de/ > Rheinau < http://www.rheinau.de/ . Ringelbach < http://www.oberkirch.de/ringelbach/ > Ringsheim < http://www.ringsheim.de/dynasite.cfm > Rust < http://www.rust.de/ > Sasbach < http://www.sasbach.de/frameset.html > Sasbachwalden < http://www.sasbachwalden.de/ > Schuttertal < http://www.schuttertal.de/ > Schutterwald < http://www.schutterwald.de/index1.htm > Schwanau < http://www.schwanau.de/ > Seebach < http://www.seebach.de/ > Stadelhofen < http://www.stadelhofen.de/ > Steinach < http://www.steinach.de/ > Tiergarten < http://www.oberkirch.de/tiergarten/ > Wagshurst < http://www.achern.de/geschichte/ortschaften/wa/index.htm > Willstaedt < http://www.willstaett.de/ > Wolfach < http://www.wolfach.de/ > Zusenhofen < http://www.zusenhofen.de/ > In addition < http://www.badische-seiten.de/neuried/ > has some minor information on the towns of Altenheim, Dundenheim, Ichenheim, Muellen and Schutterzell, all towns within the consolidated town of Neuried. Beyond the towns, there are even some area sites which could be of value such as < http://www.achertal.com/ > and < http://www.kinzigtal.de/ > Follow the river through a number of towns? djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com You may correct my spelling of URLs and any incorrect URLs...at any time.

there are some very good webpages for the Ortenau area: The webpage http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de contains information about the history of the Ortenau towns, also hamlets and lost towns. The webpage http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ is the memberpage with additional information about many towns, like statistical information about towns and hamlets. Hillrich

Tom, My thanks for Mahlberg. I'll still use Wendelin's town page first for my information on any town as his information is directed to our specific needs, < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de > but so far I have gathered a small list of Town pages. That start includes: Achern < http://www.achern.de/ > Appenweier < http://www.appenweier.de/ > Bottenau < http://www.oberkirch.de/bottenau/ > Durbach < http://www.durbach.de/ > Fautenbach < http://www.fautenbach.de/ > Gutach < http://www.gutach-schwarzwald.de/frameset.php > Grossweier < http://grossweier.fricar.de/index.html > Hohberg < http://www.hohberg.de/content/show/de_DE > Kehl < http://www.kehl.de/ > Mahlberg < http://www.mahlberg.de/ > Nussbach < http://www.oberkirch.de/nussbach/ > Oberkirch < http://www.oberkirch.de/ > Oedsbach < http://www.oberkirch.de/oedsbach/ > Oensbach < http://www.oensbach.de/ > Offenburg < http://www.offenburg.de/ > Rheinau < http://www.rheinau.de/ . Ringelbach < http://www.oberkirch.de/ringelbach/ > Stadelhofen < http://www.stadelhofen.de/ > Steinach < http://www.steinach.de/ > Tiergarten < http://www.oberkirch.de/tiergarten/ > Wagshurst < http://www.achern.de/geschichte/ortschaften/wa/index.htm > Zusenhofen < http://www.zusenhofen.de/ > djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Fitzsimmons" <tjjfitz@msn.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach > dj: (and I'm sure we all live in hope to someday learn what are the names > behind those initials) > > Mahlberg's site is at http://www.mahlberg.de/<http://www.mahlberg.de/> and > on that homepage, there is a "Geschichte der Stadt Mahlberg" found by > clicking on "geschichte mahlberg" on the "willkommen" line of the pulldown > menus on the left margin of the homepage. You've probalbly already found > this, but in case not, here goes. > > Tom Fitzsimmons, > Bismarck, North Dakota.

dj: (and I'm sure we all live in hope to someday learn what are the names behind those initials) Mahlberg's site is at http://www.mahlberg.de/<http://www.mahlberg.de/> and on that homepage, there is a "Geschichte der Stadt Mahlberg" found by clicking on "geschichte mahlberg" on the "willkommen" line of the pulldown menus on the left margin of the homepage. You've probalbly already found this, but in case not, here goes. Tom Fitzsimmons, Bismarck, North Dakota.

Brian, I know that my listings of ownerships of the towns which I have been searching are not comlete, exact or correct but I try to be consistent so that I may stay satisfied. I don't care about Kreis because I am certain I would never be correct in knowing when which Kreis was correct for my town. I never would use the LDS listing but then while I am pleased that they have filmed so many town Church Registers, I have found so many horrible and major errors in the IGI and its akin records, I often shudder when I think of the LDS published information. Most of my searching has been for that Sur/Saur/Sauer family from Önsbach, Urloffen and Zusenhofen and for Önsbach, I use a time line of: January 1, 1556....Baden area, Landvogtei Ortenau, Vorderösterreich July 1, 1701....Margraviate of Baden-Baden October 22, 1771....Baden area, Landvogtei Ortenau, Vorderösterreich January 1, 1802....Duchy of Modena October 15, 1803....Duchy of Modena-Breisgau December 26, 1805...Margraviate of Baden August 13, 1806....Grand Duchy of Baden July 26, 1866...Grand Duchy of Baden, South German Federation January 18, 1871...Grand Duchy of Baden, German Empire Needless to say, I need to be careful as neighboring, very close towns where part of the family moved as a result of marriages were not in the Habsburg territory but in the Margraviate of Baden-Baden or in the Bistum Straßburg; boundaries sort of gerrymandered among the lands between the towns. For my search in Welschensteinach and its neighboring towns, I use as a time line: Before December 10, 1716, Obervogteiamt Haslach, Herrschaft Kinzigtal, Grafschaft Fürstenberg (Baden Area) As of December 10, 1716, Obervogteiamt Haslach, Herrschaft Kinzigtal, Fürstentum Fürstenberg (Baden Area) August 13, 1806, Grand Duchy of Baden July 26, 1866...Grand Duchy of Baden, South German Federation January 18, 1871...Grand Duchy of Baden, German Empire If I am wrong, I feel I am no worse that many other family genealogists but I have within me the thought that I tried. There also is the 1835 Zollverein but I consider that as more of a trade alliance rather than a political alliance so I do not count it in my time lines. It is still pretty much as to what you want to do and what you want to do with your genealogical information. Mine is for my own "amusement" so if I am wrong, in a sense, who cares? djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <brian@amason.net> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach >I hadn't really considered that viewpoint. > I have used the LDS placenames thinking they were correct for the time > period in question. I have wanted to use the location names that were > correct at the time my ancestors lived there, but had not considered that > it might confuse others. I will make sure to add the proper notes letting > people know that the placenames are as of the dates in question. I will > also now have to go back and validate all my placenames so they are > correct for the time period. I think I'll also, find the current names and > put them in some kind of locater appendix. Thanks for the info DJ, you > always have such wonderfully useful info. > > Brian > >

Frank, and everybody else on the List... Thank you for offering the exact address for the Gutach town web site. Your information offers a thought to me. Agreed, the town web site will be in the German language and perhaps complicated to many of us but usually there are secondary web pages with town maps and other vital information which can be understood by one without a complete knowledge of the German language. I wonder if others of us on this List have the home town web site URL for a specific Ortenau town or towns and if they could send those URLs to me. In my slow, turtle-like movement, I would gather them in alphabetical town order and send them back to the List for all. Certainly I have not completed my search in the northernly towns of the Ortenau for that Sur/Saur/Sauer family but most recently I have been working in Steinach and Welschensteinach. There the main URL is of that generic system, only < http://www.steinach.de/ > for Steinach im Kinzigtal. However, one of the secondary pages can be helpful for town "ownership" and history information...< http://www.steinach.de/index8.htm > which offers dates to complement Wendelin's information such as --------------------------------------------------- 1380 Die Vogtei Steinach wechselt in den Besitz des Klosters Gengenbach. 1423 Die Fürstenberger werden Gerichtsherren ----------- While Wendelin has given us this background as to the Klosters and the Fürstenberg control, this confirms the exact years as the town record's lists. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Many of the town home web sites are full of these valuable details for us. To all on the List, if you know a town home URL as Frank has given us for Gutach, please send it on to me. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Liepe" <frank.liepe@t-online.de> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach Hi guys, for Gutach it's http://www.gutach-schwarzwald.de/frameset.php Frank

Hi guys, for Gutach it's http://www.gutach-schwarzwald.de/frameset.php Frank -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] Im Auftrag von djweber Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Juli 2008 20:34 An: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Betreff: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach Chuck.... No. If Gutach has a home page it could be < http://www.gutach.de/ >. For Achern maybe < http://www.achern.de/>. Not every town has a web page of its own but the generic location is similar to above when looking for a town home page. Some towns such as Welschensteinach have a page off another town and an address which does not include the Welschensteinach town name. Sometimes, it is necessary to < google.com > or maybe < google.de > in order to find the correct locatioin. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cgs1996@aol.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach > dj > > Is this the correct site? > > Chuck > > > > > http://www.typethetown name.de/. > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I hadn't really considered that viewpoint. I have used the LDS placenames thinking they were correct for the time period in question. I have wanted to use the location names that were correct at the time my ancestors lived there, but had not considered that it might confuse others. I will make sure to add the proper notes letting people know that the placenames are as of the dates in question. I will also now have to go back and validate all my placenames so they are correct for the time period. I think I'll also, find the current names and put them in some kind of locater appendix. Thanks for the info DJ, you always have such wonderfully useful info. Brian On Sat, July 19, 2008 3:18 pm, djweber wrote: > Darrel, > > I am not trying to suggest that you must use some sort of town > identification for your ancestor. Many people use the incorrect LDS > identification and they are happy with their listing. Prior to the > establishment of the Grand Duchy the area of Baden on a map appeared > almost

Chuck.... No. If Gutach has a home page it could be < http://www.gutach.de/ >. For Achern maybe < http://www.achern.de/>. Not every town has a web page of its own but the generic location is similar to above when looking for a town home page. Some towns such as Welschensteinach have a page off another town and an address which does not include the Welschensteinach town name. Sometimes, it is necessary to < google.com > or maybe < google.de > in order to find the correct locatioin. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cgs1996@aol.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach > dj > > Is this the correct site? > > Chuck > > > > > http://www.typethetown name.de/. > > > >

dj Is this the correct site? Chuck http://www.typethetown name.de/. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Hello Darrel, the Kreis Wolfach doesn't exist any more. Gutach (Schwarzwaldbahn) now belongs to the Ortenaukreis. It is in the middle black forrest near the river Kinzig. Christian -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:15:46 -0500 > Von: "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> > An: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com > Betreff: [Ortenau] Gutach > Hello List, > > I can't locate Gutach, Ortenaukreis. Does anyone know where this > village > is? I see a Gutach im Breisgau/Emmendingen, and a Gutach (Schwartzbahn) > kr. > Wolfach, but not one in Ortenaukreis. Any solutions? > > > > Thanks > > Darrel > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message -- Psssst! Schon das coole Video vom GMX MultiMessenger gesehen? Der Eine für Alle: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/messenger03

Darrel, I am not trying to suggest that you must use some sort of town identification for your ancestor. Many people use the incorrect LDS identification and they are happy with their listing. Prior to the establishment of the Grand Duchy the area of Baden on a map appeared almost as a patch-work quilt....there were so many different ownerships. It is somewhat "to each his own"....list what you believe is correct and be as consistent as possible. Sometimes the time-period control can be determined from Wendelin's companion page < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de > and sometimes there is history-control at the town's home page which often is the generic http://www.typethetown name.de/. When the Grand Duchy was formed there were only three Kreis established for the entire country. Baden as all states of the United States changed its internal status by changing Kreis boundaries and adding many additional Kreis. I mention the counties of the United States as when you search a town, over the years, it may have had its political position changed a number of times; of course, with no movement of the town. The towns of Baden also changed political location often. For the Gutach called as Wolfach by the LDS, it is also referred to as part of Offenburg at other times in history since the organization of the Grand Duchy as well as many other more correct names. You do want to be certain as to which Gutach was the home of your ancestor. Hopefully, you can find him in a baptismal or marriage Rite within one of the LDS-filmed Church Registers. I had a similar problem in my Sur/Saur/Sauer ancestors from Baden. A portion of the family moved to Müllen in the 1700s. After a wasted search at the town of Müllen, I learned that there were two different towns named Müllen within only a few kilometers of each other. There are many towns in Baden and in Germany with duplicate names. In Baden, this is a result of that patch-work quilt arrangement.....the two towns close together were in different territories. I wanted the Müllen in the Habsburg Vorderösterreich but I had incorrectly searched for that portion of the family in the Müllen to the south which I believe had been in the Hessen Hanau-Lichtenberg lands. There are a number of maps, online, which show the pre-Napoleonic area of Baden. Others are better but I imagine that < http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/german1_shepherd.jpg > is the one site which may never have its URL changed. Another site which probably doesn't change its URL is Mike Pantel's < http://www.pantel-web.de/bw_mirror/history/bwmaps/bw_316.jpg > part of his set of B-W pages. For my own purposes, after the formation of the Grand Duchy, I use only three dates, in part because most of my searched-for ancestors had left Europe during that period of time and in part because trying to determine which Kreis or which local authority was correct is too difficult to be correct. Those three dates are: August 13, 1806....Grand Duchy of Baden July 26, 1866...Grand Duchy of Baden, South German Federation January 18, 1871...Grand Duchy of Baden, German Empire This way with only the town name and this type of country identification, I hope not to make any incorrect location identifications. Before 1806, it is fun and games. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> To: "'djweber'" <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: RE: [Ortenau] Gutach Thanks. That is the location I need. I am using the "Autoatlas Deutschland (Falk) 1999/2000, that I bought in Germany while there. I have usually been able to locate my towns, but when there are more than one town with the same name it is difficult to decide. I suppose that this Gutach belonged to Wolfach at the time the ancestors lived there, so it would be the one, not Gutach/Breisgau. The location on the ld-s only says Gutach, Offenburg, Baden. Both Gutachs are about the same distance from Offenburg. The Person I am looking for is Georg Weltin/Waeltin that was married to Catharina Zipf. Thanks again for your information Darrel

So that is it, thank you for that information. I will correct my location in Kr. Wolfach to read Gutach, Ortenaukreis. The Gutach i. Breisgau remains outside of Ortenaukreis in the Emmendingen district. Thanks again Darrel -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Christian Erath Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:37 AM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Gutach Hello Darrel, the Kreis Wolfach doesn't exist any more. Gutach (Schwarzwaldbahn) now belongs to the Ortenaukreis. It is in the middle black forrest near the river Kinzig. Christian -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:15:46 -0500 > Von: "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> > An: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com > Betreff: [Ortenau] Gutach > Hello List, > > I can't locate Gutach, Ortenaukreis. Does anyone know where this > village > is? I see a Gutach im Breisgau/Emmendingen, and a Gutach (Schwartzbahn) > kr. > Wolfach, but not one in Ortenaukreis. Any solutions? > > > > Thanks > > Darrel > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message -- Psssst! Schon das coole Video vom GMX MultiMessenger gesehen? Der Eine für Alle: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/messenger03 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Darrel, I did not search to confirm but from your identifications, my guess is that you are using the LDS catalog in order to find Gutach. The LDS catalog is based on the 1912 Meyers-Ort for the towns within the 1871 German Empire. In other words, the descriptive locations within the LDS catalog may have become obsolete by 1913. I consider them worthless but you will find many an online Tree showing those old and incorrect Kreis locations. For Gutach logically < mapquest.com > or one of the similar web sites should find it for you. From a general map of Baden, you can find Offenburg, go south-east to Gengenbach, south to Biberach, south to Steinach, slightly southeast to Haslach, east to Hausach and south to Gutach. This is roughly the route of the river. I guess if you are using the LDS obsolete catalog listing, try Wolfach as the LDS also shows most of the nearby towns as in the Wolfach Amt. I would believe, as the neighboring towns were, that Gutach also, would have been within the Fürstentum Fürstenberg principality prior to the formation of the Grand Duchy, probably within the Obervogteiamt Haslach but I certainly would defer to one with better knowledge of the history of the area for confirmation of the prior-Grand Duchy status/ownership. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com --------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: [Ortenau] Gutach > Hello List, > > I can't locate Gutach, Ortenaukreis. Does anyone know where this village > is? I see a Gutach im Breisgau/Emmendingen, and a Gutach (Schwartzbahn) > kr. > Wolfach, but not one in Ortenaukreis. Any solutions? > > > > Thanks > > Darrel

Hello List, I can't locate Gutach, Ortenaukreis. Does anyone know where this village is? I see a Gutach im Breisgau/Emmendingen, and a Gutach (Schwartzbahn) kr. Wolfach, but not one in Ortenaukreis. Any solutions? Thanks Darrel

Darrel, not easy to hunt for Protestant ancestors in Diersburg. I believe the Protestant records of Diersburg before 1728 are in the Ichenheim parish records, 1728-1765 in the Kippenheim records. The same procedure for Friesenheim, Heiligenzell and Oberweier. It was a difficult time for Protestants in the domination Mahlberg since 1629 and especially after 1645. The pastor from Kippenheim had to care for many towns in the domination Mahlberg because he was the only one. Later it was allowed that neighboring Protestant pastors cared for parishes (like Friesenheim). But the pastor of Kippenheim complaint about that procedure in 1726 so he received the towns again. And I don't believe records of Diersburg are in the OSB of Ichenheim or Kippenheim. - Wendelin On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:51:35 -0500 "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> wrote: > Thanks Maurine, > I am not positive that he will be in there, but the records from > Diersburg were kept in Ichenheim for some time. Let's hope! There > has not been an OSB made for Diersburg, and I can't find microfilm > either. I have hit a wall. > > Thanks again > > Darrel Hunter > (Woehrle/Hechler/Bilger, Hertenstein, Baumann/Vetter/Muschler) > > -----Original Message----- > From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of LeBlanc > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:33 PM > To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Ichenheim OSB > > Darrel - I have partial pages from the Ichenheim kinship book but no > page for Woehrle. There is a man in Paris that I can contact and > possibly get the > > information for you. It may be a few days so hang in there! > > Maurine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> > To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:45 AM > Subject: [Ortenau] Ichenheim OSB > > > Hello list, > > Does anyone have a copy of the Ichenheim/Ortenaukreis OSB/OFB? I > would appreciate a look-up when you get the time. > > I am looking for data on a Christian Woehrle/Wöhrlin (possibly > Wehrlin also, the spelling changes) a citizen from Diersburg, and his > wife Barbara Bilger. He is the father of Georg Woehrle/Woehrlin, *abt > 1747 in Diersburg, but moved to Oberweier. > > > > Any data around this person would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Darrel Hunter

Thanks for your info, Wendelin. It looks like I will never know about the ancestors of Christian Woehrlin. I was lucky to find microfilm for Elisabeth Baumann and her mann Michael Woehrle/Wehrle. Thanks Darrel -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wendelin Irslinger Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 3:25 PM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Ichenheim OSB Darrel, not easy to hunt for Protestant ancestors in Diersburg. I believe the Protestant records of Diersburg before 1728 are in the Ichenheim parish records, 1728-1765 in the Kippenheim records. The same procedure for Friesenheim, Heiligenzell and Oberweier. It was a difficult time for Protestants in the domination Mahlberg since 1629 and especially after 1645. The pastor from Kippenheim had to care for many towns in the domination Mahlberg because he was the only one. Later it was allowed that neighboring Protestant pastors cared for parishes (like Friesenheim). But the pastor of Kippenheim complaint about that procedure in 1726 so he received the towns again. And I don't believe records of Diersburg are in the OSB of Ichenheim or Kippenheim. - Wendelin On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:51:35 -0500 "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> wrote: > Thanks Maurine, > I am not positive that he will be in there, but the records from > Diersburg were kept in Ichenheim for some time. Let's hope! There > has not been an OSB made for Diersburg, and I can't find microfilm > either. I have hit a wall. > > Thanks again > > Darrel Hunter > (Woehrle/Hechler/Bilger, Hertenstein, Baumann/Vetter/Muschler) > > -----Original Message----- > From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of LeBlanc > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:33 PM > To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Ichenheim OSB > > Darrel - I have partial pages from the Ichenheim kinship book but no > page for Woehrle. There is a man in Paris that I can contact and > possibly get the > > information for you. It may be a few days so hang in there! > > Maurine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> > To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:45 AM > Subject: [Ortenau] Ichenheim OSB > > > Hello list, > > Does anyone have a copy of the Ichenheim/Ortenaukreis OSB/OFB? I > would appreciate a look-up when you get the time. > > I am looking for data on a Christian Woehrle/Wöhrlin (possibly > Wehrlin also, the spelling changes) a citizen from Diersburg, and his > wife Barbara Bilger. He is the father of Georg Woehrle/Woehrlin, *abt > 1747 in Diersburg, but moved to Oberweier. > > > > Any data around this person would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Darrel Hunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message