Hello Darrel, If you need the ancestors with name Fritsch let me know. 2703 oo 16.7.1703 Lahr Conrad Friedrich Kilius <oo II see 2706>, Barbier und Bader (auch Chirurg genannt), from Friesenheim, * about 1681, + Altenheim 7.5.1740, and Anna Margaretha Buchert, * (16.11.1681), + Altenheim 22.1.1733 10 Children: Conrad Friedrich 2.10.1703 Johann Philipp 14.7.1705 Tobias 24.7.1706 * in Lahr on the flight, + Altenheim 18.3.1709 Christian Friedrich 6.1.1709, + 12.1.1709 Anna Margaretha <913> Jeremias 11.1.1713 Maria Dorothea <1688, 4723, 2977> Maria Magdalena 13.1.1719 Friedrich Diebold 4.12.1721, + 25.9.1738 Conrad Friedrich <2708, 2712> 2706 oo 8.3.1734 Conrad Friedrich Kilius <oo I see 2703>, and Veronica Wäldin <daughter of Christian Wäldin, citzin in Schöftland, Kanton Aargau/Schweiz, Calvinist. 3 Children: Maria Barbara 12.4.1735, + 17.6.1737 (scorbutic) Maria Barbara 18.2.1738 Christian 20.9.1740, + 10.5.1743 1688 oo 16.4.1736 Michael Fritsch <from 1684; oo I. see 1687>, and Maria Dorothea Kilius <from 2703; oo II see 4723, III see 2977>, * 4.9.1715, + 22.11.1775 2 Children: Ursula 17.2.1737 Michael 29.9.1740, + 23.6.1748 4723 oo 22.2.1745 Hans Ruff <from 4715; oo I see 4718, II see 4721>, and Maria Dorothea Kilius <from 2703; oo I see 1688, III see 2977>, * 4.9.1715, + 22.11.1775 3 Children: Magdalena 26.11.1745, + 9.4.1757 Michael 20.8.1747, + 20.8.1747 Jacob 23.9.1748 2977 oo 7.1.1754 Hans Conrad Krämer <from 2963; oo I see 2967>, and Maria Dorothea Kilius <from 2703; oo I see 1688, II see 4723>, * 4.9.1715, + 22.11.1775 2 Children: Catharina <2982, 2364> Conrad <3260, 2984> - Wendelin On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:42:51 -0500 "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> wrote: > Hello list, > > I am looking for someone that has the Altenheim OSB. I am looking > for the parents and siblings of Maria Dorothea Killius/Kilius *04 Sep > 1715 in Altenheim. She was married to Michael Fritsch * abt 1700 aus > Altenheim, on 16 Apr 1736 in Altenheim. > > > > Any info would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Darrel

Would someone please help me with the translation and meaning of the following occupations? 1. Bezirks Feldwebel - I believe this means district sergeant, but what is the job description? 2. Stadt Beamter ? Thanks in advance Chuck **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Hello Darrel, if no other person can offer a lookup I could do it in some weeks, as soon I am visit a library which owns that book. - Wendelin On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:42:51 -0500 "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> wrote: > Hello list, > > I am looking for someone that has the Altenheim OSB. I am looking > for the parents and siblings of Maria Dorothea Killius/Kilius *04 Sep > 1715 in Altenheim. She was married to Michael Fritsch * abt 1700 aus > Altenheim, on 16 Apr 1736 in Altenheim. > > > > Any info would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Darrel

Thank you Wendelin. I suspect that Dorothea is connected to the Killius line in Friesenheim, but need to see the connection. Thanks again Darrel -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wendelin Irslinger Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:24 AM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Killius Hello Darrel, if no other person can offer a lookup I could do it in some weeks, as soon I am visit a library which owns that book. - Wendelin On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:42:51 -0500 "Darrel" <dar7ter@comcast.net> wrote: > Hello list, > > I am looking for someone that has the Altenheim OSB. I am looking > for the parents and siblings of Maria Dorothea Killius/Kilius *04 Sep > 1715 in Altenheim. She was married to Michael Fritsch * abt 1700 aus > Altenheim, on 16 Apr 1736 in Altenheim. > > > > Any info would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Darrel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello list, I am looking for someone that has the Altenheim OSB. I am looking for the parents and siblings of Maria Dorothea Killius/Kilius *04 Sep 1715 in Altenheim. She was married to Michael Fritsch * abt 1700 aus Altenheim, on 16 Apr 1736 in Altenheim. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Darrel

As Wendelin finds new and valuable information for us, he sends a message to the List with the Subject Line "Update" and he tells us the involved town or towns, what type of information and on which Companion Page he has placed the information. Hopefully, you and I have read all of those messages and gone on to the Companion Page for more complete information including details of and from the home town of our ancestor but it any of those messages were missed a good idea would be to go to the Search page of the Rootsweb Ortenau List, < http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DEU-BAD-ORTENAU >> After the word "Subject", type the word update, after the word "Body" type your specific town name and click on the Search tab. See if you may have missed any of Wendelin's Updates... then go to the appropriate Companion Page, probably the Sources Tab at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ > or the first page at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/ > whichever is identified in the original Update message. The more details we know about our ancestor and how he lived, the easier it may be to understand that ancestor and what brought him to emigrate to a new land. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com

Alicia, Suggestion.... I went into the web page sort of backwards so it will be a long URL, < http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/sixcms/detail.php?template=hp_artikel&id=8441&id2=6626&sprache=de > but this location should give you the address, the telephone number, the fax number and an e-mail address < glakarlsruhe@la-bw.de > to reach the Generallandesarchiv Karlsruhe. I understand they accept questions written in English although they properly answer in German however that the answer should not be difficult to translate. >From the online Auswanderer list of emigrants from south-west Germany, the file number for Philippine Schaub was 225151. I might suggest that you contact the Archives to determine what the cost in Euros (or Dollars) would be for you to order that file. While you may accept my other gamble as of little value, at the same time, asking for the additional cost for file 233234 of Norbert Heitz might be a gamble worth taking. The worst you might learn would be that an individual asked and received permission to emigrate. The best you might learn would be all the vital details you would want on your ancestors. It will be a gamble of dollars versus an unknown but your wanted information is unknown now. The alternative would be to hire someone in Baden who could investigate those file numbers for you but my memory suggests that I had read somewhere that the Archiv has reduced its hours or its services to in house investigators. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com (I continue to pick on Norbert rather than Robert as I believe a young man called Bert might prefer a more American sounding name after emigration which would allow him to use Bert as his nickname and Robert could fit.)

Hello Alicia and Carol, perhaps Philippine was born illegitimate and received later the surname of her father. But I assume Carol has searched for the given name. And because of the given name I thought Philippine was perhaps grandchildren of Philipp Schaub who is in my database. When Carol can't find the baptism entry in Niederschopfheim and Beverly can't find the marriage entry in Schutterwald there seems as only possibility to order a copy of Philippine's emigration document (if such a document really exists). - Wendelin On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 21:46:19 -0500 "Carol Rogers" wrote: > A.L. McAdam, > > Unfortunately .... I searched the filmed records for both Hofweier and > Niederschopfheim in hopes of finding a baptismal record for Philippine > Schaub, born about 1829 - without success. > > I'm presuming Philippine was Catholic? I'm wondering if she went by > another name? Did the names and ages/years you gave match census > records? > > Carol

A.L. McAdam, Unfortunately .... I searched the filmed records for both Hofweier and Niederschopfheim in hopes of finding a baptismal record for Philippine Schaub, born about 1829 - without success. I'm presuming Philippine was Catholic? I'm wondering if she went by another name? Did the names and ages/years you gave match census records? Carol -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Carol Rogers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:50 PM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald I will see what I can find on Philippine Schaub in Niederschopfheim or Hofweier, but I will probably not be able to get to the FHC (where I volunteer) until Saturday. Carol -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Wendelin Irslinger Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:44 AM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald I couldn't find the marriage Schaub-Heitz in Niederschopfheim. My baptism records of Niederschopheim end with 1806 or 1809 so I can't search for Phillipine Schaubs baptism in 1829. Do you know the name of her parents? Maybe Carol has still the films of Niederschopfheim and can search for that baptism. - Wendelin On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:50:49 +0200 Wendelin Irslinger <genealogy@babbalu.com> wrote: > Hello A., > > seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database > (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without > permission. > > But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did > emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853. > > If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of > Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in > Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for > marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough > incomings, landed estate... > > I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim. > > - Wendelin > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400 > "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote: > > > Hello List Members: > > > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert > > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left > > Schutterwald for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine > > Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married > > Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. > > > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I > > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched > > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg > > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > A.L. McAdam ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carol, Yes, I had many of those Neiderschopfheim on long term load at the FHL which you were probably already aware. Greg Hilton> From: homealot@earthlink.net> To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:49:52 -0500> Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald> > I will see what I can find on Philippine Schaub in Niederschopfheim or> Hofweier, but I will probably not be able to get to the FHC (where I> volunteer) until Saturday.> > Carol> > -----Original Message-----> From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com> [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Wendelin> Irslinger> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:44 AM> To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald> > > I couldn't find the marriage Schaub-Heitz in Niederschopfheim.> > My baptism records of Niederschopheim end with 1806 or 1809 so I can't> search for Phillipine Schaubs baptism in 1829. Do you know the name of> her parents?> > Maybe Carol has still the films of Niederschopfheim and can search for> that baptism.> > - Wendelin> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:50:49 +0200 Wendelin Irslinger> <genealogy@babbalu.com> wrote:> > > Hello A.,> >> > seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database> > (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without> > permission.> >> > But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did> > emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853.> >> > If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of> > Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in> > Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for> > marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough> > incomings, landed estate...> >> > I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim.> >> > - Wendelin> >> > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400> > "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello List Members:> > >> > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert> > > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left> > > Schutterwald for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine> > > Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married> > > Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S.> > >> > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I> > > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched> > > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg> > > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail.> > >> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.> > >> > > A.L. McAdam> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to> DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the> quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008

Yes, Greg, and what you didn't have there, I ordered to complete the years (which I have pink slips for 0957709/710/711). It's so nice to have someone to share films with of our common towns! -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Greg Hilton Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:27 PM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald Hi Carol, Yes, I had many of those Neiderschopfheim on long term load at the FHL which you were probably already aware. Greg Hilton> From: homealot@earthlink.net> To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:49:52 -0500> Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald> > I will see what I can find on Philippine Schaub in Niederschopfheim or> Hofweier, but I will probably not be able to get to the FHC (where I> volunteer) until Saturday.> > Carol> > -----Original Message-----> From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com> [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Wendelin> Irslinger> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:44 AM> To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald> > > I couldn't find the marriage Schaub-Heitz in Niederschopfheim.> > My baptism records of Niederschopheim end with 1806 or 1809 so I can't> search for Phillipine Schaubs baptism in 1829. Do you know the name of> her parents?> > Maybe Carol has still the films of Niederschopfheim and can search for> that baptism.> > - Wendelin> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:50:49 ! +0200 Wendelin Irslinger> <genealogy@babbalu.com> wrote:> > > Hello A.,> >> > seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database> > (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without> > permission.> >> > But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did> > emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853.> >> > If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of> > Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in> > Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for> > marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough> > incomings, landed estate...> >> > I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim.> >> > - Wendelin> >> > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400> > "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote:> >> > > Hello List Members:> > >> > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert> > > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left> > > Schutterwald ! for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine> > > Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married> > > Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S.> > >> > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I> > > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched> > > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg> > > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail.> > >> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.> > >> > > A.L. McAdam> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to> DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the> quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_fam ily_safety_072008 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I will see what I can find on Philippine Schaub in Niederschopfheim or Hofweier, but I will probably not be able to get to the FHC (where I volunteer) until Saturday. Carol -----Original Message----- From: deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:deu-bad-ortenau-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Wendelin Irslinger Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:44 AM To: deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald I couldn't find the marriage Schaub-Heitz in Niederschopfheim. My baptism records of Niederschopheim end with 1806 or 1809 so I can't search for Phillipine Schaubs baptism in 1829. Do you know the name of her parents? Maybe Carol has still the films of Niederschopfheim and can search for that baptism. - Wendelin On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:50:49 +0200 Wendelin Irslinger <genealogy@babbalu.com> wrote: > Hello A., > > seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database > (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without > permission. > > But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did > emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853. > > If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of > Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in > Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for > marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough > incomings, landed estate... > > I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim. > > - Wendelin > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400 > "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote: > > > Hello List Members: > > > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert > > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left > > Schutterwald for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine > > Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married > > Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. > > > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I > > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched > > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg > > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > A.L. McAdam ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Alicia, Further thoughts.... Do later US Federal or State census reports give you enough information to determine the approximate year of marriage? I do expect that the year will be 1853 and that the two single Robert and Philippine applied to emigrate knowing that they were going to America to live, then either married in Baden and emigrated or emigrated and then married in New York City. Either way if the census information is 1853 you still need to determine where the marriage took place. Hohberg? As long as Philippine applied for a permit to emigrate under her birth name, I believe she applied while she was still single. Do you have a clearer copy of the Indah Tours Manifest? From looking at the Ancestry.com copy I am not certain of the nationality of the line (probably American) nor if Indah Tours is the full name of the ship or if Robert is the spelling of the name...it looks like one additional letter under the blot. Norbert? (As to the Indah Tours, neither Michael Palmer nor Lou Alfano who are the prime individuals online with details on ships identify the Indah Tours.....apparently not a very large vessel nor many trans-Atlantic trips.) Am I trying to confuse you? djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com

Alicia, > Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Philippine Schaub's > parents. Should I assume that since Philippine emigrated from > Niederschopfheim her family is from there? yes her parents are probably from Niederschopfheim. - Wendelin

Alicia, Some thoughts..... As both Robert and Philippine are listed consecutively on the Manifest, the heavy percentage is that they were married before they left Baden. A further clue maybe if the ship were of a German, French, English or American line. >From my database of ancestors which I have searched Robert is not a particularly common Germanic name. To be exact the only Robert I have was born as Karl Robert. Do you know the second name of your Robert? Perhaps he reversed his names or picked an English sounding name of Robert after he arrived in America. The fact that Philippine traveled legally does not match with Robert traveling illegally, although this is possible. For 1853, the Auswanderer list offers seven males with the surname Heitz who applied for emigration permits. You can check this at the English languge tab of < http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/sixcms/detail.php?template=a_artikel&id=6591&sprache=en&PHPSESSID= >. One of those seven is a Norbert Heitz from Friesenheim of the then district of Oberschopfheim, Auswanderer identification 233234. Philippine Schaub is identification number 225151 with her last place of residence as being Hohberg in the then district of Niederschopfheim. (Unfortuately these additional towns bring the fear of additional Church Register investigations.) I am not saying that Robert was Norbert, merely that Robert was not, in my searches, a very common Germanic name and that perhaps Robert was not your Robert's original name. I do not know the numbering system used in this Auswanderer system which is a compilation of record obtained by Hans Glatzle for Württemberg and Wolfgang Müller for Baden. I do know that limited information has been added in the past several years after it was identified that the Baden portion included about 200,000 names. However, I would think that if Robert and Philippine were married at the time they requested the right to emigrate that only one number would be used for both. I admit I did not check the other six Heitz males of the 1853 records to see their code numbers. Also, Philippine might have requested the right to emigrate just prior to the marriage and Robert after the marriage. Welfare is not a new word or new activity. A Germanic town practiced welfare for the support of those town members who were not able to mentally or physically support themselves. The early 1850s however brought heavy costs on the towns and funds for such aid to certain townspeople was difficult to obtain. In the years prior to this time, there had been years of drought, some famine but even worse was the attempted revolutions of 1848-1849. For a short time a Republic of Baden had been proclaimed but with the aid of Prussian troops the revolution was put down. The financial result, though, was heavy charges from the Prussian government for the use of their troops. Taxes were increased multiple times and funds for town welfare were less than limited. It was necessary for the potential bride groom to prove that he had the financial wherewithall to marry and support his bride without the need of town aid. A similar need of proof was when an man requested a permit for emigration. While the questions varied from town to town, you could expect that it was necessary that the male petitioner would request from the Town Council a "passport" for a period of time, perhaps six months, for himself and his family and he would need to prove that he had enough money to emigrate, that he had never needed town aid, that he would not be a manpower or financial shortage to the town, that he had a good reputation and had no debts due to any local individuals. The Town Council would give their approval or their denial. A second name for Robert? djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com (Any family tales that Robert and Philippine married one day and left for America the next day?) ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> To: "djweber" <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald > Your scenario is very interesting. I do have the ship Manifest for Robert > and Philippine, and you are correct about the location of their names. > Robert's name is listed first, followed on the next line by Philippine's > name. Does this mean that Robert and Philippine were, in fact, already > married prior to their emigration? > > I am curious about your comment regarding adequate funds for marriage. > Could you elaborate on that a bit? Was this some sort of set fee imposed > by the individual towns, or was it consistent throughout all of Baden? > > Also, what would prevent an individual from obtaining a permit to > emigrate? > > Thanks so much for your help. > Alicia >

Could it be that the couple met aboard the passenger ship they immigrated on?? This happened many a time during the great migration.? Beverly But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did > emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853.

Alicia, >From what we now know about your Robert and Philippine, i can picture another (possible) secenario where they came, unmarried, to the United States and married after their arrival. Robert had insufficient funds for the Town to allow his marriage. Philippine had relatives already in the United States. Philippine obtained a legal permit to emigrate. Robert left home without a permit, officially illegally. Robert and Philippine traveled together to and then on the same ship with their marriage immediately upon their arrival at the port of debarkation probably at that port city. There would be a little bit more about the financial ability of Philippine's parents as they might have financed both ocean fares but still I would start with a search for a marriage in Baden because so many married women did end up on the Manifest with their birth surname. Do you have a copy of the ship Manifest showing Robert and Philippine. Are one above the other on the Manifest or are they several names apart? Their position on the Manifest might be a hint. However, as you know their approximate dates of birth and the logical towns of their baptisms, certainly the LDS filmed Rite Registers are still an excellent start, a possible record of marriage and certainly the records of the baptisms with those entries leading you to their parents and on through their ancestry. djweber djwdjw@ix.netcom.com ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> To: "djweber" <djwdjw@ix.netcom.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald >I will try to order the films. I was not aware of the custom of listing a >married woman by her maiden name on a ship's passenger list, hence, my >erroneous assumption that Robert and Philippine were married sometime after >their arrival in the U.S. > > Thanks for your explanation and suggestions. > Alicia

I couldn't find the marriage Schaub-Heitz in Niederschopfheim. My baptism records of Niederschopheim end with 1806 or 1809 so I can't search for Phillipine Schaubs baptism in 1829. Do you know the name of her parents? Maybe Carol has still the films of Niederschopfheim and can search for that baptism. - Wendelin On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:50:49 +0200 Wendelin Irslinger <genealogy@babbalu.com> wrote: > Hello A., > > seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database > (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without > permission. > > But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did > emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853. > > If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of > Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in > Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for > marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough > incomings, landed estate... > > I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim. > > - Wendelin > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400 > "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote: > > > Hello List Members: > > > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert > > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left > > Schutterwald for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine > > Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married > > Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. > > > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I > > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched > > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg > > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > A.L. McAdam

Wendelin, Unfortunately, I do not know the names of Philippine Schaub's parents. Should I assume that since Philippine emigrated from Niederschopfheim her family is from there? Thanks so much for you help. Alicia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendelin Irslinger" <genealogy@babbalu.com> To: <deu-bad-ortenau@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Heitz Family - Schutterwald >I couldn't find the marriage Schaub-Heitz in Niederschopfheim. > > My baptism records of Niederschopheim end with 1806 or 1809 so I can't > search for Phillipine Schaubs baptism in 1829. Do you know the name of > her parents? > > Maybe Carol has still the films of Niederschopfheim and can search for > that baptism. > > - Wendelin > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:50:49 +0200 Wendelin Irslinger > <genealogy@babbalu.com> wrote: > >> Hello A., >> >> seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database >> (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without >> permission. >> >> But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did >> emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853. >> >> If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of >> Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in >> Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for >> marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough >> incomings, landed estate... >> >> I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim. >> >> - Wendelin >> >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400 >> "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote: >> >> > Hello List Members: >> > >> > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert >> > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left >> > Schutterwald for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine >> > Schaub (b. 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married >> > Philippine, evidently somewhere in the U.S. >> > >> > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I >> > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched >> > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg >> > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail. >> > >> > Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> > >> > A.L. McAdam > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello A., seems Robert Heitz is not in the emigration database (http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/) listed. Maybe he did emigrate without permission. But Philippine Schaub is listed in the emigration database. She did emigrate from Niederschopfheim in 1853. If you can't find the marriage record in the church register of Schutterwald and Niederschopfheim (I will look for such an entry in Niederschopfheim): Before 1862 people needed a state permission for marriage in Baden. They only got the permission if they had enough incomings, landed estate... I too have Schaub ancestors from Niederschopfheim. - Wendelin On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:25:52 -0400 "A McAdam" <amcadam@msn.com> wrote: > Hello List Members: > > I am researching the Heitz family from Schutterwald, Baden. Robert > Heitz (b. 1824, according to his U.S. death record) left Schutterwald > for the U.S. in 1853. He was traveling with Philippine Schaub (b. > 1829), also from Schutterwald. Robert married Philippine, evidently > somewhere in the U.S. > > Although I have the ship passenger list for Robert and Philippine, I > have been unable to find any other information. I have searched > Ancestry.com, the LDS website, the Landesarchiv Baden-Wurttemberg > website, and every other place that I can think of, all to no avail. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > A.L. McAdam