Hi, just read that the manuscript for the kinship book of Ortenberg is ready for printing. The manuscript has about 1900 pages. Years: 1600 - 1950. It seems you can get the book cheaper if you enter your name into a subscription list. -------------- Das Manuskript für das Familienbuch von Ortenberg ist bereit für den Druck. Das Manuskript hat ca. 1900 Seiten und behandelt die Jahre 1600 - 1950. Man kann das Buch anscheinend günstiger bekommen, wenn man seinen Namen in eine Subskriptionsliste einträgt. - Wendelin

Wendelin, Where do I go for more information on that book? Carol -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortenberg: kinship book / Familienbuch Hi, just read that the manuscript for the kinship book of Ortenberg is ready for printing. The manuscript has about 1900 pages. Years: 1600 - 1950. It seems you can get the book cheaper if you enter your name into a subscription list. -------------- Das Manuskript für das Familienbuch von Ortenberg ist bereit für den Druck. Das Manuskript hat ca. 1900 Seiten und behandelt die Jahre 1600 - 1950. Man kann das Buch anscheinend günstiger bekommen, wenn man seinen Namen in eine Subskriptionsliste einträgt. - Wendelin ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/ >. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

You are right. I got this data from my grandfather's cousin and did not look at closely. Her first child was suppose to have been born 1819-1820. She still would have been very young. I went back to the contract with the agent in Mannhein for their passage (it is very large and four pages- I have a copy of it) and it says she was 55 in 1849. So that would mean that he was born 1794. Her husband was born in 1788. So that date sound more valid. I have seen her tombstone in WI. It was also buried in the grass. I am going back this summer and maybe I can find. Her husband's tombstone and her brother's on the internet. Thank you for the "wake-up" I would have been searching a long time for. Her brother is suppose to Charles Ludwig Hummel. His birth date is on his tombstone. Again thank you. Barbara On Apr 13, 2005, at 5:45 AM, Wendelin Irslinger wrote: > Barbara, > >> I believe my great great great grandmother Catharina Hummel was from >> Offenberg. She was born 18 Nov 1803. >> Catharina married Michael Schrenier in Offenberg about 1815 (their >> first child was born in 1819/20 in Diersham) > > I believe something is wrong with your Hummel data. It's impossible > that she > married in 1815 when she's born in 1803. I would even expect that she > was of > full age when she got her 1st child. > Maybe it's a mix of at least 2 different Catharina Hummel. > > Where have you found your information? > > Hummel is not a seldom name in that area. There was even a noble > family with > that name. > > (And I remember the swindler Karl Ignaz Hummel who said he's Oskar > Daubmann > the last German prisoner of world war I whose father was born in > Hofweier) > > - Wendelin > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for > neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or > from your searched town. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

Barbara: I am afraid that the microfilms I was referring to are from Urloffen, Offenburg, Baden and not Offenburg proper. However, I know that there are microfilms of various parishes of Offenburg available through the Family History Center. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Bower" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:40 PM Subject: Re:Dan Bravard-Look up for ancestors from OFFENBURG > You said you had on permanent loan films - are films for Offenberg, Baden. > If so could you do a lookup for me? I think they were not Catholic. > > I believe my great great great grandmother Catharina Hummel was from > Offenberg. She was born 18 Nov 1803. She had a brother born (Suppose to > be born in Strassboerg on 3 Apr 1801) and a sister Mary - no date for > her. > > Catharina married Michael Schrenier in Offenberg about 1815 (their first > child was born in 1819/20 in Diersham) > > I would like to know Catharina's parent, and maybe the exact of her > marriage. > > Thank you, > > Barbara Bower > > ______________________________ >

Brian, As I told you in my message, I can go no further and I have referenced you to the LDS filmed Church Registers for the town of Urloffen, although Dan Bravard has acknowledged that he has the Urloffen films on an Extended basis. As such he could, perhaps, check the baptism to give you enough details so that you might continue the search of your ancestors on your own. But, I would add one thought. You have identified the town as "Urloffen, Offenburg, Baden". This could be a true identification of location today and it logically is the identification as used from the 1912 Meyers Gazetteer' town identification in the LDS IGI but your nineteenth and eighteenth century ancestors never lived in "Urloffen, Offenburg, Baden". Kreis areas (such the the Ortenaukreis) have changed over the years. The administrative districts have also changed (often) over the years. At the time of the organization of the Grand Duchy, 1803-1806, there were three provinces: Oberrheins, Mittelrheins and Unterrheins. The number of Kreis and the number of administrative districts within Baden has continued to grow. For your ancestor having been born probably in 1844, a safer designation of location merely could be "Urloffen, Grand Duchy of Baden". The Grand Duchy joined the South German Federation in 1866 and became a part of the German Empire in 1871. Also, considering that in the earlier years before the formation of the Grand Duchy on August 13, 1806 Urloffen was within the Habsburg area of the Landvogtei Ortenau of the Vörderosterreich, if you trace your ancestors in the LDS Urloffen films, you may want to determine a more correct, than the IGI designation, identification for their town location. djweber [email protected]

Dan Bravard wrote: > DJW and Brian: > > I have the rolls in question on permanent loan at my local FHC and > would be quite willing to look up a few entries. However, with the > rather lengthy description below could you summarize what you want me > to look up? It would make things easier for me. > >> ...As for the marriage of the parents, without the baptismal record >> identifying the exact parents, there is no roll of film which would >> help. Also, we >> don't know if your Louise Kiefer was the first or the fifteenth child >> born >> of the marriage so we don't know how long the parents were married >> prior to >> her 1844 birth. >> >> However, from another index, this time for marriages, we do know that in >> 1843 a Bernard (probably Bernhard) Kiefer and a Monica Reinbold (perhaps >> Rheinbold) were married in Urloffen but in the prior several years, >> other >> Kiefer males married women named Maria Anna, Maria Anna and Maria >> Magdalena. >> We are still at the point where you need to research those Urloffen >> films >> unless someone on this List or through Dan's contacts happens to have a >> connection for you. > I'm not sure of much about my gggmother Louise Kiefer (Frohbesen), except maybe, possibly, there is a chance that she was: Born in Jun 1844, lived in Urloffen, Offenburg, Baden until ~1851-1854 then lived in Lower East-Side Manhattan (E Houston St.) after marrying around 1860 to Georg Frohbesen/Frobesen/Frohbessen and was buried 22 July, 1919. Thanks, Brian D.

Hi Wendelin, We still have computer problems. Also a change of e-mail <[email protected]> We still receive e-mail on old address, but only mails on new address go out. Sorry for the cofusion. Rose Goutbeck

You said you had on permanent loan films - are films for Offenberg, Baden. If so could you do a lookup for me? I think they were not Catholic. I believe my great great great grandmother Catharina Hummel was from Offenberg. She was born 18 Nov 1803. She had a brother born (Suppose to be born in Strassboerg on 3 Apr 1801) and a sister Mary - no date for her. Catharina married Michael Schrenier in Offenberg about 1815 (their first child was born in 1819/20 in Diersham) I would like to know Catharina's parent, and maybe the exact of her marriage. Thank you, Barbara Bower

DJW and Brian: I have the rolls in question on permanent loan at my local FHC and would be quite willing to look up a few entries. However, with the rather lengthy description below could you summarize what you want me to look up? It would make things easier for me. Thanks. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Searching for KEIFER ancestors from OFFENBURG > Brian, > > After your original question on the B-W List, I imagine I did the same > rough > investigation as you. I went to the < > http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ > >, looked at the town of Urloffen, then went on to Dan Bravard's > >identified > page at < http://www.oatney.org/Urloffen_Germany.htm >. From having been > at > that page before, I knew that Dan's Kieffer ancestors preceded my search > in > time, as I remembered his connection was of the late 1600s. Wanda Ridge > had > offered you some details after the B-W message but that ring/group did > have > a couple of other Kieffer/Kiefer entries and perhaps someone there might > help you. > > I had told you that after I had found my connection to Kieffer in the > 1703-1705 period that I had attemptd to work a downward tree from that > family (of Jakob Kieffer and Margaretha Saur who is a daughter and sister > of > two of my direct ancestors) but that family tree is only about 4 to 5 > generations and I have practically no information into the 1800s, let > alone > your 1844 birth year. > > My group of Extended Films at my local LDS have been decimated as a result > of the lack of space there and the large volume of use at that LDS FHC. I > have left only about twenty-five per cent of the films I once had but that > remaining amount includes fours rolls of Urloffen Church Registers films, > none of which are late enough in time to give you any answers. I do not > have any middle 1800s records but.... > > film 0949963 does include an index for baptisms from 1786-1900 according > to > the LDS catalog. In checking that film for the year 1844, the baptistm of > a > Ludovika Kiefer is identified. By then the name Kieffer had varied down > to > Kiefer and while "Ludovika" would not be the exact logical and normal > spelling, it is a variant on the feminine of the masculine name > Ludovic/Ludwig (Louis) and in America, could have been Louise. > > You need to check into LDS film 0949964 to confirm the baptism/birth and > determine the parents. > > As for the marriage of the parents, without the baptismal record > identifying > the exact parents, there is no roll of film which would help. Also, we > don't know if your Louise Kiefer was the first or the fifteenth child born > of the marriage so we don't know how long the parents were married prior > to > her 1844 birth. > > However, from another index, this time for marriages, we do know that in > 1843 a Bernard (probably Bernhard) Kiefer and a Monica Reinbold (perhaps > Rheinbold) were married in Urloffen but in the prior several years, other > Kiefer males married women named Maria Anna, Maria Anna and Maria > Magdalena. > We are still at the point where you need to research those Urloffen films > unless someone on this List or through Dan's contacts happens to have a > connection for you. > > djweber > [email protected] > > > > >

To all list members: Apparently there has been a slight change in the URL for the Baden and Württemberg emigration site. The correct address is now: http://auswanderer2.lad-bw.de/auswanderer/deutsch/index.htm The old address had :8080 in it. George | |The on-line Auswanderer List (Glatzle/Müller index; Müller for the Baden |emigrants) is still a work in progress and with luck, maybe. This project, |in part, has been hosted by the Faculty for Informatics of the University of |Applied Science in Karlsruhe and substantial information is on-line; it is |just not complete. I have much more faith in the Baden Emigration Index but |the Auswanderer List is a tool for use. | |For a quick look, that URL is < |http://auswanderer2.lad-bw.de:8080/auswanderer/deutsch/index.htm >. If the |German language instructions at this page appear confusing, "Sie Ihre |Vorfahren", "Suchformular" and "Anfrage Senden" are your key words for |clicking away link by link to find an individual....of course, after listing |the name between the Suchformular and Anfrage Senden actions.

George, Thank you! When one is as old as I am, change is not expected but you are completely correct a change has been made in the Auswanderer URL. The old address is dead and only < http://auswanderer2.lad-bw.de/auswanderer/deutsch/index.htm > works now. Maybe I should look for more ancestors and I might stay current on those web sites. djweber [email protected]

Hi Rose. Thank you so much for you time on this. I think the one from Keppelrodeck may be mine, but when I look on the church records I could not find him. Do you know if the information on that film was birthplace or last residents? Maybe I missed something, those films are hard to read. Thanks for any new ideas. Bruce

Bruce, Your question is certainly a main reason that Wendelin has set up so many addition/companion web pages for we on the Ortenau List. His hopes are to offer details and potential answers which we might never find in our own searches. I understand that much of the additional information available to us has come from history books and records available in the Ortenaukreis area. His request which I put on-line was the hope that we might have additional bits of information from purchased town books or other sources so that we could help others on this List. I am certain that you have done everything possible in US church records, court records, naturalization records, newspaper articles, death and cemetery records and every other US potential source to find some indication of the town in Baden from where your ancestor Anton Späth emigrated. US records are the best source to pinpoint one ancestor. Many of us have found our answer in US records; many of us may still be searching for a Baden location. From the message which welcomes each of us to this List, I quote "We merely hope that each of the members by sharing knowledge, by sharing investigative methods, by sharing results within this smaller land area may give help to all the members." That is what we are here for and hopefully some detail in one privately-owned sources given to the List for the companion web site may help another on the List. I would ask you if you have found Anton Späth's record in the LDS filmed Baden Emigration Index? As the necessary title is not the easiest to remember to search in the LDS catalog, I would suggest < http://www.websters.net/blackforest/didyouknow.html > as a lead in. Only about fifty percent of the emigrants applied for permission to leave so this is not a complete index of the emigrants. The on-line Auswanderer List (Glatzle/Müller index; Müller for the Baden emigrants) is still a work in progress and with luck, maybe. This project, in part, has been hosted by the Faculty for Informatics of the University of Applied Science in Karlsruhe and substantial information is on-line; it is just not complete. I have much more faith in the Baden Emigration Index but the Auswanderer List is a tool for use. For a quick look, that URL is < http://auswanderer2.lad-bw.de:8080/auswanderer/deutsch/index.htm >. If the German language instructions at this page appear confusing, "Sie Ihre Vorfahren", "Suchformular" and "Anfrage Senden" are your key words for clicking away link by link to find an individual....of course, after listing the name between the Suchformular and Anfrage Senden actions. I guess the idea is to find out where you have gone, what you searched for and if Wendelin or any of the List members can help you. djweber [email protected] ---------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce A. Spade" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Ortenau Information > For many years I have been looking for Anton Späth born 1831 in Baden. > Would this fellow in Baden have way to narrow my search? > He came to America in1851. > Thanks for any help on this brick wall. > Bruce >

For many years I have been looking for Anton Späth born 1831 in Baden. Would this fellow in Baden have way to narrow my search? He came to America in1851. Thanks for any help on this brick wall. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:06 AM Subject: [Ortenau] Ortenau Information > At various times, I have forwarded information that your List Administrator > who lives in Baden has added new details at the Source site of < > http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ >. He continues to add lists of > information for us at that site. > > In addition, many of us, may have books or information on the Ortenau or on > certain towns within the Ortenaukreis. While some of our sources are too > complicated to obtain short lists of information, other of those sources may > have vital details which could help others with interest in the same town or > in one of the identified surnames. > > Would we please search in our own Town reference books to see if we might > have any such valuable information which we could forward to the List so our > List Administrator might add that information to the companion "Source" web > page. > > Check your own reference books. We have no desire to impinge on any > copyright but short lists obtained and identified as from a certain book or > source normally would be permissible and could be very helpful to others on > this Ortenau List. Send your information to the List and let Wendelin > handle the conversion to the "Source" page. > > Currently, that Source page offers links for: > Ortssippenbücher (Kinship Books) Index.... > Altenheim > Dundenheim > Ichenheim (partial Index) > Kippenheimweiler > Müllen > Schutterzell > > Auswanderer (emigrants).... > Aus den Memoiren einer alten Offenburgerin > Diersburg > Hofweier > Niederschopfheim > Nordrach > Prinzbach und Schönberg > Schutterwald > > Andere Quellen (other sources).... > Ortsarchive (Town archives) > Teilnehmer an Napoleons Feldzug 1812 (soldiers for Napoleon) > Achern - Kirchensteuerliste (churchtax list) 1666 > Diersburg - Familiennamen (surnames) > Durbach - Familiennamen (surnames) > Gamshurst - Geschichte der Pfarrei > Hofweier - Familiennamen (surnames) > Hornberg - Bauernhöfe (farms) 1471-1590 > Hugsweier - Bürger (citizen) 1793 > Niederschopfheim - Familiennamen (surnames) > Niederschopfheim - Heiraten, Tote 1690-1717 (marriages, deaths) > Nußbach - Kirchenbuch (parish record) 1645 > Önsbach - Archiv (town archiv) > Zunftmitglieder (member of guilds) in Offenburg 1705-1714 > Renchen - Familiennamen (surnames) > Steinach - Familiennamen (surnames) > Bürgerverzeichnis des ehemaligen Amtes Willstätt 1590 > Hausinschriften im Hanauerland (house inscriptions in Hanauer country) > Windschläg - Familiennamen (surnames) > Dokumente von Kloster Wittichen (documents of cloister Wittichen > Bürgerverzeichnis von Zell a. H. > Calendertool (Julian to Gregorian / Gregorian to Julian) > > GEDCOM.... > Vorfahren Maria Anna Zapf.GED (50 kb) > Genealogische Daten aus Biberach und Umgebung (Kurt Erlemann) > > Other towns.... > Familiennamen von (familynames of) Rastatt > > ----- > > djweber > [email protected] > > > > > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site > < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ >. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

At various times, I have forwarded information that your List Administrator who lives in Baden has added new details at the Source site of < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ >. He continues to add lists of information for us at that site. In addition, many of us, may have books or information on the Ortenau or on certain towns within the Ortenaukreis. While some of our sources are too complicated to obtain short lists of information, other of those sources may have vital details which could help others with interest in the same town or in one of the identified surnames. Would we please search in our own Town reference books to see if we might have any such valuable information which we could forward to the List so our List Administrator might add that information to the companion "Source" web page. Check your own reference books. We have no desire to impinge on any copyright but short lists obtained and identified as from a certain book or source normally would be permissible and could be very helpful to others on this Ortenau List. Send your information to the List and let Wendelin handle the conversion to the "Source" page. Currently, that Source page offers links for: Ortssippenbücher (Kinship Books) Index.... Altenheim Dundenheim Ichenheim (partial Index) Kippenheimweiler Müllen Schutterzell Auswanderer (emigrants).... Aus den Memoiren einer alten Offenburgerin Diersburg Hofweier Niederschopfheim Nordrach Prinzbach und Schönberg Schutterwald Andere Quellen (other sources).... Ortsarchive (Town archives) Teilnehmer an Napoleons Feldzug 1812 (soldiers for Napoleon) Achern - Kirchensteuerliste (churchtax list) 1666 Diersburg - Familiennamen (surnames) Durbach - Familiennamen (surnames) Gamshurst - Geschichte der Pfarrei Hofweier - Familiennamen (surnames) Hornberg - Bauernhöfe (farms) 1471-1590 Hugsweier - Bürger (citizen) 1793 Niederschopfheim - Familiennamen (surnames) Niederschopfheim - Heiraten, Tote 1690-1717 (marriages, deaths) Nußbach - Kirchenbuch (parish record) 1645 Önsbach - Archiv (town archiv) Zunftmitglieder (member of guilds) in Offenburg 1705-1714 Renchen - Familiennamen (surnames) Steinach - Familiennamen (surnames) Bürgerverzeichnis des ehemaligen Amtes Willstätt 1590 Hausinschriften im Hanauerland (house inscriptions in Hanauer country) Windschläg - Familiennamen (surnames) Dokumente von Kloster Wittichen (documents of cloister Wittichen Bürgerverzeichnis von Zell a. H. Calendertool (Julian to Gregorian / Gregorian to Julian) GEDCOM.... Vorfahren Maria Anna Zapf.GED (50 kb) Genealogische Daten aus Biberach und Umgebung (Kurt Erlemann) Other towns.... Familiennamen von (familynames of) Rastatt ----- djweber [email protected]

KIEFER is a fairly common German name, and I came across it quite often while researching the Rammersweier/Zell/Weierbach/Fessenbach area just east of Offenburg. The primary records were the church records of the Weingarten Catholic Church thru my LDS Family History Center.. Although the KEIFERS were not in my direct line, some did marry into my OTT and BASLER families there. Jack Ott "Pathways to the Past" at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~jackott/index.htm Researching OTT ECKENFELS BASLER and others in Offenburg area

Brian, After your original question on the B-W List, I imagine I did the same rough investigation as you. I went to the < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ >, looked at the town of Urloffen, then went on to Dan Bravard's identified page at < http://www.oatney.org/Urloffen_Germany.htm >. From having been at that page before, I knew that Dan's Kieffer ancestors preceded my search in time, as I remembered his connection was of the late 1600s. Wanda Ridge had offered you some details after the B-W message but that ring/group did have a couple of other Kieffer/Kiefer entries and perhaps someone there might help you. I had told you that after I had found my connection to Kieffer in the 1703-1705 period that I had attemptd to work a downward tree from that family (of Jakob Kieffer and Margaretha Saur who is a daughter and sister of two of my direct ancestors) but that family tree is only about 4 to 5 generations and I have practically no information into the 1800s, let alone your 1844 birth year. My group of Extended Films at my local LDS have been decimated as a result of the lack of space there and the large volume of use at that LDS FHC. I have left only about twenty-five per cent of the films I once had but that remaining amount includes fours rolls of Urloffen Church Registers films, none of which are late enough in time to give you any answers. I do not have any middle 1800s records but.... film 0949963 does include an index for baptisms from 1786-1900 according to the LDS catalog. In checking that film for the year 1844, the baptistm of a Ludovika Kiefer is identified. By then the name Kieffer had varied down to Kiefer and while "Ludovika" would not be the exact logical and normal spelling, it is a variant on the feminine of the masculine name Ludovic/Ludwig (Louis) and in America, could have been Louise. You need to check into LDS film 0949964 to confirm the baptism/birth and determine the parents. As for the marriage of the parents, without the baptismal record identifying the exact parents, there is no roll of film which would help. Also, we don't know if your Louise Kiefer was the first or the fifteenth child born of the marriage so we don't know how long the parents were married prior to her 1844 birth. However, from another index, this time for marriages, we do know that in 1843 a Bernard (probably Bernhard) Kiefer and a Monica Reinbold (perhaps Rheinbold) were married in Urloffen but in the prior several years, other Kiefer males married women named Maria Anna, Maria Anna and Maria Magdalena. We are still at the point where you need to research those Urloffen films unless someone on this List or through Dan's contacts happens to have a connection for you. djweber [email protected]

Greetings researchers, I'm looking for any information about KEIFERS from the OFFENBURG area, especially URLOFFEN. My gggmother, Louiue KEIFER was born as near as I can tell in URLOFFEN, OFFENBURG in Jun/Jul 1844. Her mother was called Monika in America, but I also have a references where her name appears to be Marie or Magdalena. She immigrated, around 1851, but I'm not sure her mother came over at the same time, or else her mother returned to Germany for a while. Louise married Georg Frobesen (George Frohbesen) from Assenheim, Hesse in NYC somewhere around 1860. I have records indicating, they baptised at least one child in a German Presbyterian church. They were both buried in a Lutheran Cemetary. I haven't found any references to Louise or Georg in German records on the LDS site, but other records found on them from the LDS have pointed me to theses locations for them in Germany. Thanks, Brian Densmore DENSMORE WALDRON DUFFY HOLLIGAN CUNNINGHAM HALPINN MULLER ANNEHEIM BELTZUNG MOHN MORETH FROHBESEN KIEFER HODEL

Your List Administrator keeps one step, maybe more, ahead of me. He has entered another group of "Other Sources" items at < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ > and note the additional lists of information and names within that category. After you reach < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ >, click on the "Sources" Tab, then work your way down to "Andere Quellen (other sources)" to see if your wanted town has one of those new listings. djweber [email protected]

Darlene, When I first viewed your List question, I didn't think that anyone would be able to give you a decent answer. I fear that my thoughts remain the same these hours later. Whether you can receive a proper answer is probably only a guess and that answer would be....a yes, a no or a maybe. While surnames are vital to us in our ancestral search, surnames in a full historic time-line are something relatively new. All of us have many generations of unknown ancestors who had only one name; perhaps, way back when, our ancestor was Hans the Cobbler or maybe Jerg the Butcher. Surnames eventually were added to the normal name and added based on various circumstances....a job title, a physical description, a friendly (or insulting) nickname, a home town area, just an area, dozens of reason. There are several books which have been published offering ideas of surname origins. Bahlow and Gottschald published their efforts in Germany and Jones has compiled an American effort. Whether any of these or others are 100% correct is doubtful but a good genealogical library should have one or more of these books and maybe a possible hint of an answer might be available for you at that type of source. Beyond these books, genealogical societies in our searched area through publications such as the "Südwestdeutsche Blätter für Familien und Wappenkunde" have occasionally a potential origin/meaning of a surname. I tried to check the on-line German telephone book for you without much success. No returns were offered for "Orteneau" and the hundred-plus returns for "Ortenau" suggested, on the whole, business activities in the Ortenaukreis. Hopefully, someone more versed in searching that on-line directory can eliminate the business names to determine if any such surname exists today. While the suffix "eau" might have suggested to me that I also check the French telephone book, with your statement that the surname was Germanic, I elimated the thought of French or Alsatian from my mind. The Ortenau, in history, has been mentioned for hundreds of years. A German native should be able to offer more details on its history. Various web sites offer the locations Ortenau and Mortenau dating back a thousand years ago. It boils down....if your ancestor came from the Ortenau....the answer is a yes, a no or a maybe. Again, with hopes, someone smarter than I can offer you a Germanic background on the area. From what little might be found of the area, in US books, I would guess the Alamans (Alemanni) and the Franks might be the first known tribes of the area found by the Romans with the Suevi following at a later time. At an even later time this area should have been incorporated into Swabia. From Swabia we probably move on to the families of the Staufen(s), the Zähringen(s) and eventually the Habsburg(s). Maybe a web site at < http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/germany/gerindexx.html > might lead into a few answers as to the Germanic areas including the Ortenau. No answer for you but perhaps some thoughts for you. djweber [email protected] ---------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] information got erased > Have just discovered that my maiden name Orteneau was changed from the > original German name, Ortenau. What is known of the surname, Ortenau? I > know of > the region, but who were originally from that area? Any information would > be > appreciated. > > Regards, > > Darlene O. Deno