Carolyn, You have many entries in the Search area for the surname Schaub. I realize that you have the approximate area but not the exact correct town as yet. You are trying to find a Georg Schaub born in 1821 and his sister Maria Antonia Schaub born in 1827. A vague memory suggests that I have told in the past to eliminate Önsbach and Großweier in your search. The Familienbuch for Önsbach lists only a Katharina Schaub who had a child baptized there in 1807. (She and her husband Josef Hutt appear to have been transients.) The Ortsfamilienbuch for Großweier identifies only a Franz Josef Schaub born in 1730 in Altschweier. (He married a woman from Großweier.) But, after these two eliminations for you, I wonder about other such books for other towns of the Ortenau. I know that some other members of this List do own such books for their towns of interest. I wonder if they could check their books for the Schaub surname. There would be three possibilities; more towns to eliminate for you, a hint that some towns had fair populations of Schaub family members or the third, a miracle, that Georg or Maria Antonia might be listed in one of those books. If those on this List with such books could check for Carolyn, it could be an excellent gesture. djweber [email protected]

Wendelin, I have been asked to ask you a question about the Derendinger Inn. You said the inn is still in existence, is the inn used as such or is it used as a "bed & breakfast" or pub? Thank you, again, kind sir! Maurine

Hello Ewald, as a "Freiburger", but not living there, I hope you have a good time in this lovely city! And your offer to make some lookups is more than kind!! Am I late with my request? I search for data of my great-grandmother Theresia Kaltenbacher, born Fritsch, in the 1830s or 1840s (most possibly, as her and her husband´s Pelagius Kaltenbacher son was born in 1864 in Sarnen/Switzerland). Possibly she died in Freiburg some time after 1890, when her son Karl Albert married in Freiburg. Just in case you´re still doing some research work, I would appreciate if you could check whether there is an entry of Theresia´s death in these books! Thanks a lot and best wishes from Wuppertal Kurt. At 12:45 07.06.2005 EDT, you wrote: >Hello Baden researchers, > >I am just in Freiburg in Breisgau to research my BUTZ, FRANK, FRANCK, >FRANCKH, HENSLE, GOETZ, GOTT, GOETTIN, ESCHLER ancestors on micro films in the >Erzbischoefliches Archiv for the catholic Baden parishs. >If you need some information, tell me. > >Ewald Butz

DJ, You have been a great help in explaining my situation. I understand that my time frame is divided between several different situations that evolved during those 100 years. I feel like I need to study the history of each of these different time frames to understand what I am trying to look for. My Fetz family left Oberkirch, Baden in 1831. I have never heard of the reason that they left the country but do understand that they were facing a harsh situation with two sons of the age of 17 and 15 years. And a daughter of 19. I will attempt to learn in great detail of the history of the area of Oberkirch and how each little hamlet surrounding them played a part. As well as the military and economic conditions that existed during these different periods of history. Again DJ, I may have to bend your ear for more and more suggestions as to how to proceed. Hope you do not get tired of me probing and prodding you for more? Thanks ....Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Thiergarten > Tony, > > As to history, I know nothing. I have learned some information from > reading > the Church Registers, reading those companion pages and doing some < > google.com > searches under searche words such as < baden + history >. > > And, anything I might have kept in my mind probably wouldn't be of much > value in your search. I believe the towns around Oberkirch before the > formation of the Grand Duchy of Baden were within the Bistum Straßburg > which > makes their history somewhat different from the nearby towns where I have > an > interest as those other towns were within the Habsburg lands of the > Vorderösterreich. Different ownership. > > Remember the Grand Duchy was formed in August 1806, a result of Napoleon > redisigning the face of Europe. A good map of the pre-Grand Duchy era is > at > < http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/BAD-WUE/Landkarten/bad1771g.gif >. The > Bistum Straßburg is explained in German at < > http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/ > >; look on the left side for Herrschaften and click on Bistum Straßburg. > > For your time period, before 1750 to 1850, you have to think in two ways. > The full Grand Duchy was not formed until 1819 but the ecclesiatical > territories had disappeared before the 1806 date. If my memory is close, > this happened in 1803 when Baden became an Electorate of the Holy Roman > Empire, then when the Empire was dissolved in 1806 Baden became a Grand > Duchy of the Confederation of the Rhine. Before 1803, the towns of the > Bistum would have been subservient to the Bishop. > > Your answer for before 1750 ends with 1803 and starts again for 1803 to > 1850. However, keep in mind that there was contact between the people of > the Margraviate of Baden-Baden, of the Habsburg Vorderösterreich lands, of > the Bistum Straßburg, of the nearby Hessian lands and of the many other > lands of that area of what became the Grand Duchy. There were marriages > across those "country" boundaries. > > One major difference might be that in the Bistum, in addition to town > records, there probably are some Kloster records; again something I > would not know in certainty as my involvement has only been minor > in this Bistum area. > > Tony, not an answer for you but maybe a start. > > djweber > [email protected] > ---------------------------- >> Would you know of any history to be found of the Oberkirch area before >> 1750 to 1850? Maps of that particular area of that time as well? >> I have been reading everything I can get my hands on but nothing yet of >> that particular area during that time frame. >> > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < > http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/ >. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

Tony, Just remember that whatever I type, whatever I proof read will still have typos by the time it reaches you and the List. So, if some of my messages seem as though you need to read between the lines and they still don't make sense, ask again. But there are many others MUCH more intelligent than I on this List and I am certain that others will add extra and more exact information for any questions to the List. For a short history of the Baden area, I would always suggest the individual town pages of the Companion pages as being the most exact for those towns. The Korean-located, English-language, German-web site of World History at KMLA < http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/germany/xbaden.html > is good. That site also has a few pages on the Vorderösterreich starting at < http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/germany/vo16481740.html >. It is possible that KMLA includes pages on other of the Baden-located political activities. There are other historical pages such as the Black Forest pages and Mike Pantel's pages but I don't know if any of those or others would be as exact as you might need for the Bistum Straßburg details. Your time period of 1831 is unique in a sense. Of course, many others emigrated in 1831 also but if your time period were in the later 1830s and early 1840s, I could identify bad weather and poor harvests. If your time period were in the late 1840s and the early 1850s, I could identify the Revolutionary attempt and the high costs to the towns charged against those attempts. But 1831? Maybe they merely emigrated because they thought it was time to emigrate. For a good history of "Baden", not just the Bistum area, the copyrighted in 1910 Catholic New Advent encyclopedia is on-line (I think it really dates to 1905). It is old but then we are involved with history and the early 1900s is new to us. The main URL is < http://www.newadvent.org/ > and article on Baden is at < http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02194a.htm >. This history should help for your 1803 to 1850 time period. There are several other older but excellent encyclopedias and histories on-line; the Britannica 1911, in particular, which can be found through < google.com > searches. djweber [email protected]

Tony, As to history, I know nothing. I have learned some information from reading the Church Registers, reading those companion pages and doing some < google.com > searches under searche words such as < baden + history >. And, anything I might have kept in my mind probably wouldn't be of much value in your search. I believe the towns around Oberkirch before the formation of the Grand Duchy of Baden were within the Bistum Straßburg which makes their history somewhat different from the nearby towns where I have an interest as those other towns were within the Habsburg lands of the Vorderösterreich. Different ownership. Remember the Grand Duchy was formed in August 1806, a result of Napoleon redisigning the face of Europe. A good map of the pre-Grand Duchy era is at < http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/BAD-WUE/Landkarten/bad1771g.gif >. The Bistum Straßburg is explained in German at < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/ >; look on the left side for Herrschaften and click on Bistum Straßburg. For your time period, before 1750 to 1850, you have to think in two ways. The full Grand Duchy was not formed until 1819 but the ecclesiatical territories had disappeared before the 1806 date. If my memory is close, this happened in 1803 when Baden became an Electorate of the Holy Roman Empire, then when the Empire was dissolved in 1806 Baden became a Grand Duchy of the Confederation of the Rhine. Before 1803, the towns of the Bistum would have been subservient to the Bishop. Your answer for before 1750 ends with 1803 and starts again for 1803 to 1850. However, keep in mind that there was contact between the people of the Margraviate of Baden-Baden, of the Habsburg Vorderösterreich lands, of the Bistum Straßburg, of the nearby Hessian lands and of the many other lands of that area of what became the Grand Duchy. There were marriages across those "country" boundaries. One major difference might be that in the Bistum, in addition to town records, there probably are some Kloster records; again something I would not know in certainty as my involvement has only been minor in this Bistum area. Tony, not an answer for you but maybe a start. djweber [email protected] ---------------------------- > Would you know of any history to be found of the Oberkirch area before > 1750 to 1850? Maps of that particular area of that time as well? > I have been reading everything I can get my hands on but nothing yet of > that particular area during that time frame. >

DJ, thanks that is what I was wishing to hear. No I have not seen a map of Oberkirch with the surrounding hamlets like Loh, Winterbach, Tiergarten shown. Loh is the place most mentioned in the documents that I have seen so far. I have viewed 3 tapes from Oberkirch and have ordered an additional 3 more. Should be in next week. I am in search for any brother or sisters of my ggg-grandfather Joseph Fetz or his Father Casper Fetz. They have been listed as citizens of Oberkirch. On the side of the church document is listed their name with Loh. Sponsors for baptism were listed from Winterbach as well so I thought it to be close to Oberkirch. Would you know of any history to be found of the Oberkirch area before 1750 to 1850? Maps of that particular area of that time as well? I have been reading everything I can get my hands on but nothing yet of that particular area during that time frame. Regards, Tony Fetz ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Thiergarten > Tony, > > Thiergarten is an old name for the town of Tiergarten which today is part > of the consolidated town of Oberkirch. You can check this at < > http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/ > by clicking on Oberkirch and working your > way down from the basic town through the additional towns which have been > consolidated into it. > > If your next question might be in which LDS films are the Church > Registers, I've seen them or some of them but I don't remember where. The > Tiergarten films, themselves, are relatively recent (from the early 1800s) > so I would guess I had seen the earlier Register information at older > books of Ulm, Oberkirch or Nußbach (Oberkirch is my best guess). > > I can suggest either someone else who has worked the films will answer you > or you may have to search and dig through the LDS catalog to figure out > which nearby town has the earlier information for Tiergarten. > > Geographical, Tiergarten is north of Oberkirch, an easy walking distance. > It is east of Stadelhofen, another easy walking distance, Ulm is to the > north, a little bit longer for a walk but still a possibility and Haslach > even closer between Ulm and Tiergarten with Erlach, Zusenhofen and Nußbach > not that far to the west beyond Stadelhofen. I trust you have some maps > of the area or can search some on-line site such as < > http://www.mapquest.com > >, < http://www.mapblast.com >, < > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm >, < > http://www.stadtplandienst.de/ >, < > http://www.ortenaukreis.city-map.de/city/db/162908000000.html > or, > without a map, the Nearest Neighbours link at < > http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp >. > > djweber > [email protected] > ---------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 6:09 PM > Subject: [Ortenau] Thiergarten > > >> Can someone tell me where Thiergarten is located? >> Thanks.....Tony Fetz > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > Pre Napoleonic maps of B-W which include the lands of the Ortenau: > < http://www.hoeckmann.de/deutschland/bwsued.htm > > < http://www.pantel-web.de/bw_mirror/history/bwmaps/bw_316.jpg >. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

You give such great advice, DJ, and are so thorough that I'm hesitant to add this added information. But when I first started ordering films from the FHC, I initially purchased those $1.50 pamphlets you mentioned in both Latin and German (which I still periodically use). They are great, but I felt that I needed something more. Without having your advice on those free sites, I purchased a few Latin and German dictionaries - and found them not as practical for old Latin and German church records. Then upon advice from the B-W List, I purchased the book, "German-English Genealogical Dictionary" by Ernest Thode. I know you are familiar with it, but for new researchers, it not only has German but also has some Latin - very centered around words found in the old German/Latin written church records. This book has been a real asset for me, and between that and the two pamphlets, I've gone a long way in translating records. The first part of the book also includes things such as abbreviations, German letter formations, symbols, names, and more. So if you're planning on being in the film reading for awhile, this book is well worth the price, and can be purchased through the internet. Carol -----Original Message----- From: djweber [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:42 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Maybe, a Tip for newer (Latin) Church Register researchers A couple of weeks ago, as a result of a side, not List, message the question of reading Latin in earlier Church Registers came up. This question may be of little value to those of you who have searched for any length of time, except for some new and strange-to-you occupational title, but for newer genealogists even Latin translations can be difficult. There are, however, a large number of on-line sources for Latin genealogical words which could be of excellent aid. Most of these sites are only several pages and they easily could be printed and used as your own dictionary while you are attempting to read LDS filmed Church Registers. Or, if your browser has the ability to mail web pages to you, you could keep the information in a computer folder without the need of printing all the pages. The first and the largest in number of pages is the LDS Genealogical Word List which is a series of pages starting at < http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/guide/WLLatin.asp >. I believe this information may be almost exact to the booklet sold at most LDS locations for about $1.50. This set of pages includes Key Words, General Words, Numbers, Dates and Times. A site of about six pages is < http://www.xmission.com/~nelsonb/latin.htm > which is titled as a "Latin Primer" and for that title, it does an excellent job. The on-line encyclopedia, Wikipedia, offers information. This is primarily numbers and it's information is helpful in reading dates, < http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki.cgi?Numerus >. A site < http://home.online.no/~cfscheel/GG-LA.HTM > offers the Latin word translation into English, German and French....and some into Norwegian, for you linguists. Another guide to "Latin Dates and Numbers" is at < http://www.alsirat.com/symbols/latindates.html >. "Palaeography - Reading Latin", subtitled "A dictionary of Latin terms for the genealogist" is on-line at < http://www.jaydax.co.uk/genlinks/latin-dic.html >. I am certain that a < google.com > search will pick up many more sites of similar value. I have not searched as the sites suggested above have done the job for me whenever I have found a strange Latin word. If general Latin, beyond genealogical Latin, might be of value to you and you have a Barnes & Noble store in your area, that company together with Langenscheidt has published and still should have available for purchase a $6.95 pocket-sized Latin-English/English-Latin dictionary which advertises over 35,000 references on 480 pages. For its price and its contents, a great bargain. djweber [email protected] ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.stadtplandienst.de/ > offers detailed on-line maps of the town of your ancestor. From the map of Offenburg, by moving and resizing, the streets of your ancestor's home town can be found. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Mike, The site you suggested in your e-mail below, http://www.iltrails.org/madison/index.html<about:blank, does not seem to work. Any suggestions? I did try cutting and pasting it, and cut out the ending "carrot" symbol. I might add that you are so right about emigrants coming over in groups, drawing other emigrants to the same area. Six of my great, great grandparents emigrated to Ste. Genevieve County. The other two had a son, my great grandfather, who emigrated to the same area. Two of the six were married and had 4 children when immigrating around 1851. They lived in Ste. Genevieve for awhile, then they and one son moved to Madison County, Illinois, and are buried there. Their daughter, however, stayed in Ste. Genevieve and married the above mentioned great grandfather. All seven, except the two that were married, were from different towns around Offenburg. They were: Bahr - Ortenau - emg. 1846 Jokerst - Böhlsbach - emg. 1842 Gegg - Hofweier - emg. 1834 Ketterer - Ebersweier - emg. 1851 - moved to Madison Co. Fritsch - Riedle - emg. ? by 1863 Fischer - Windschläg - emg. 1881 I might add that my great grandfather, Andreas Fischer, has two ship records that fit his exact description, the first in 1880 and the second in 1881 when census indicates he immigrated. So I'm wondering if he didn't visit the U.S. the year prior, and then decided to return permanently. Carol Rogers -----Original Message----- From: Mike Hirsch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Emigration Patterns from the Villages of the Ortenau I have been curious about emigration patterns of emigrants from the Ortenau to places in the Midwest. While immigration societies and writers like Duden were important, most studies say that families from the same villages in Europe tended to move to the same places in the United States because of letters and encouragement from other family members or other persons from their villages who had already emigrated to these places. I am seeing some evidence of this in my family research and I am wondering if this pattern is true for other emigrants from the Ortenau. Here is what I have observed about my family's settlement in the United States: 1. Madison, Jefferson County, Indiana. My Hirsch ancestors immigrated from Mahlberg and landed at NYC in November 1847, and then almost immediately went to Madison on the Ohio River in Jefferson County, Indiana, where they purchased land in February, 1848. While Madison was a booming town at the time and had the first railroad in Indiana connecting the Ohio River with the interior of Indiana, I have always wondered why they chose to go to Madison, Indiana and whether there were other family members or families from Mahlberg who emigrated to Jefferson County, Indiana. My Fehr/Keller ancestors from Oberschopfheim also ended up in Madison, Indiana, and my great grandparents, Jacob Hirsch and Ludgarda Fehr, were married there in 1855. Same question -- why did the Fehr/Keller family go to Madison, Indiana? Were there other family members or families from Oberschopfheim who had also emigrated there? Looking through the 1850 Federal Census for Jefferson County (which identifies a number of persons as being from Baden), I am pretty sure that the Josef and Maria A. Elble family, who immigrated from Oberschopfheim in 1847, are residents of Jefferson County in 1850. Wendelin tells me that Joseph Elble's wife was Maria Anna Spitzmüller. The mother of my great, great grandmother, Ludgarda (Fehr nee Keller) Schneider, who immigrated with seven children in 1854 from Oberschopfheim after the death of her second husband, was also a Spitzmüller. This family connection may explain why she and her family ended up in Madison, Indiana, by the time of her daughter's marriage in 1855. 2. Ste. Genevieve County, Missouri. After their marriage in 1855, members of both the Hirsch and Fehr families moved to Cape Girardeau, Missouri, on the Mississippi River, but then in 1861, they moved to Ste. Genevieve County, Missouri. From what I have read, Cape Girardeau County was settled primarily by Germans from Hannover and Braunschweig, but that there was a large concentration of Germans from Baden in Ste. Genevieve County who settled in and around the towns of Zell, New Offenburg and Weingarten. I know that other families from Niederschopfheim, Oberschopfheim and Diersburg, such as the Samson and Feist families, also settled in this area for a time, and one of the Fehr girls, Helena, married Killian Samson. 3. Alton, Madison County, Illinois. The Hirsch family moved back to Cape Girardeau after the Civil War, but members of the Fehr Family (who had come from Oberschopfheim) moved to Alton, Madison County, Illinois. At http://www.iltrails.org/madison/index.html<about:blank>, one can find a list of the 1882 Patrons of Alton, which includes the following: Bruch, Victor: Alderman, b. Baden, Ger., came to Mad. Co. 1855. Walter, Thekla: Wife of John F. Hoffmeister, b. Oberschopfheim, Ba. Co. Ger., came to Mad. Co. 1852. Kohler, Franz: Fruit distillery & vineyard, b. Oberschopfheim Baden, Ger., came to Mad. Co. 1852. Einsele, Eleonora: Wife of Franz Kohler, b. Oberschopfheim Baden, Ger., came to Mad. Co. 1854. Pfaff, Valentine: Dealer in stoves & tinware, b. Niederschopfheim, Ger., came to Mad. Co. 1858. Schaub, Charley: Stock dealer & butcher, b. Niederschopfheim, Ger., came to Mad. Co. 1854. Schlageter, Beda: Turner, mfg. of parasols, umbrellas, etc. b. Oberschopfheim, Baden, came to Mad. Co. 1853. I know that later a John and Frank Gissler also emigrated from Oberschopfheim to Alton, and John Gissler was a pall bearer at the funeral of Kunigunde Fehr, the wife of Joseph Fehr and daughter of Valentine Pfaff. Looking at the above, it does appear that there is a pattern of persons from the same villages in Germany moving to the same places in the United States. Obviously many emigrants were attracted to the large cities along the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers such as St. Louis, Louisville and Cincinnati which provided much better opportunities for work, but I'd be curious if others of you had ancestors who emigrated to the three areas above and what other towns in the United States tended to attract emigrants from the Ortenau. Mike Hirsch ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== Pre Napoleonic maps of B-W which include the lands of the Ortenau: < http://www.hoeckmann.de/deutschland/bwsued.htm > < http://www.pantel-web.de/bw_mirror/history/bwmaps/bw_316.jpg >. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Tony, Thiergarten is an old name for the town of Tiergarten which today is part of the consolidated town of Oberkirch. You can check this at < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/ > by clicking on Oberkirch and working your way down from the basic town through the additional towns which have been consolidated into it. If your next question might be in which LDS films are the Church Registers, I've seen them or some of them but I don't remember where. The Tiergarten films, themselves, are relatively recent (from the early 1800s) so I would guess I had seen the earlier Register information at older books of Ulm, Oberkirch or Nußbach (Oberkirch is my best guess). I can suggest either someone else who has worked the films will answer you or you may have to search and dig through the LDS catalog to figure out which nearby town has the earlier information for Tiergarten. Geographical, Tiergarten is north of Oberkirch, an easy walking distance. It is east of Stadelhofen, another easy walking distance, Ulm is to the north, a little bit longer for a walk but still a possibility and Haslach even closer between Ulm and Tiergarten with Erlach, Zusenhofen and Nußbach not that far to the west beyond Stadelhofen. I trust you have some maps of the area or can search some on-line site such as < http://www.mapquest.com >, < http://www.mapblast.com >, < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm >, < http://www.stadtplandienst.de/ >, < http://www.ortenaukreis.city-map.de/city/db/162908000000.html > or, without a map, the Nearest Neighbours link at < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp >. djweber [email protected] ---------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 6:09 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Thiergarten > Can someone tell me where Thiergarten is located? > Thanks.....Tony Fetz

Can someone tell me where Thiergarten is located? Thanks.....Tony Fetz

If you have not viewed the Startpage of < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ > recently your List Administrator has added a question for you. It is a question about your use, your want, your need for Web Space. You may read and answer direct as the question requests. I believe this is a preliminary investigation to determine if such a service might aid you. djweber [email protected]

If you have not checked your towns or your surnames at the < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ > site perhaps you may be missing a genealogical connection you could reach through this List. The surname entries over the past several months have grown. So far in June, entries have been made at the towns of Fautenbach, Oberkirch and Oberweier. In May, entries were made at the towns of Fautenbach, Haslach bei Oberkirch and Lauf. In April, I probably can't count that high, but it appears that entries were made at about fifteen different Ortenau towns, maybe one of yours. Perhaps a List contact for one of those newer entries may be of value to you. djweber [email protected]

A couple of weeks ago, as a result of a side, not List, message the question of reading Latin in earlier Church Registers came up. This question may be of little value to those of you who have searched for any length of time, except for some new and strange-to-you occupational title, but for newer genealogists even Latin translations can be difficult. There are, however, a large number of on-line sources for Latin genealogical words which could be of excellent aid. Most of these sites are only several pages and they easily could be printed and used as your own dictionary while you are attempting to read LDS filmed Church Registers. Or, if your browser has the ability to mail web pages to you, you could keep the information in a computer folder without the need of printing all the pages. The first and the largest in number of pages is the LDS Genealogical Word List which is a series of pages starting at < http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/guide/WLLatin.asp >. I believe this information may be almost exact to the booklet sold at most LDS locations for about $1.50. This set of pages includes Key Words, General Words, Numbers, Dates and Times. A site of about six pages is < http://www.xmission.com/~nelsonb/latin.htm > which is titled as a "Latin Primer" and for that title, it does an excellent job. The on-line encyclopedia, Wikipedia, offers information. This is primarily numbers and it's information is helpful in reading dates, < http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki.cgi?Numerus >. A site < http://home.online.no/~cfscheel/GG-LA.HTM > offers the Latin word translation into English, German and French....and some into Norwegian, for you linguists. Another guide to "Latin Dates and Numbers" is at < http://www.alsirat.com/symbols/latindates.html >. "Palaeography - Reading Latin", subtitled "A dictionary of Latin terms for the genealogist" is on-line at < http://www.jaydax.co.uk/genlinks/latin-dic.html >. I am certain that a < google.com > search will pick up many more sites of similar value. I have not searched as the sites suggested above have done the job for me whenever I have found a strange Latin word. If general Latin, beyond genealogical Latin, might be of value to you and you have a Barnes & Noble store in your area, that company together with Langenscheidt has published and still should have available for purchase a $6.95 pocket-sized Latin-English/English-Latin dictionary which advertises over 35,000 references on 480 pages. For its price and its contents, a great bargain. djweber [email protected]

I admit that I am not up to date in adding URLs for the Links Tab of your Companion pages < http://ortenau.speedyspace.de/search/ >. A recent suggestion for an addition to that page is < http://www.rockamweinberg.de/ >. From a quick view of that page and its own links, it would appear that the current information is only temporary as it refers to a June 10 Rock Am Weinberg Concert at Bottenau. Perhaps when the concert is over that the page may be used for after-information. If you have any interest in Bottenau (or a German Rock Concert), I might suggest a quick view of the web page and search its own links. I will recheck the page after the 10th; if it continues to identify information of or from Bottenau, I will add that URL to the Links. djweber [email protected]

Ewald, Thank you for this kind offer. My great grandfather, STEPHEN BUSAM was born in Nussbach in 1850, settled in Offenburg and raised his family there, but spent his golden years in Frieburg in Breisgau in an old peoples home with his second wife FRANZISKA BASLER BUSAM. He died around 1946. If you run across anything pertaining to him, I'd surely appreciate it. Beverly Mack Zanon -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-D Digest V05 #44 Hello Baden researchers, I am just in Freiburg in Breisgau to research my BUTZ, FRANK, FRANCK, FRANCKH, HENSLE, GOETZ, GOTT, GOETTIN, ESCHLER ancestors on micro films in the Erzbischoefliches Archiv for the catholic Baden parishs. If you need some information, tell me. Ewald Butz ______________________________

Ewald: I envy you your visit to Freiburg. My wife and I were there three years ago looking for traces of my Binz family who moved to Freiburg from Mahlberg. The family had a butcher shop and sausage shop there. The autobiography of my great-grandfather's brother, Gustav Binz, describes life there: "... after Easter 1863 we had to take leave of Mahlberg. At 'Unterlinden' in Freiburg, opposite Lamms Hotel, Father had bought a house, which we also should not live in for a long time. "Freiburg was a new world for us boys. The enormous Cathedral, the thronged Kaiserstrasse with its high-gabled houses, Castle hill with its 'Saltbox', which we often climbed, the 'Kanonenplatz', from whose platform one overlooks the city and also can see into the 'Himmelreich', which not above, but down in the valley gently spreads, -- then the lively little streams of clear water, which run whispering in many roads and lanes, and the elegant pavement of the sidewalks, made from identical sized grey and white pebbles, --- Swabia Gate and Martin's Gate with its beautiful picture of St. Martin who is handing down a piece of his Roman officer's cloak to that poor naked man -- all that and still much more made such an vivid impression on us young boys that our Mahlberg home and friends were soon forgotten." My great-grandfather, August Binz, didn't get along well with his father while working in the shop, and went (or was "banished") to America in 1865. The shop was sold soon after and, "He [the father, Leopold Binz] gave up the business, sold the house and moved with us to a rented flat in a house in Weber lane." The mother [Maria Anna Rieder] died in 1849 and was buried in "Freiburg's old cemetery". All this is my very amateurish translation from Gustav's booklet, and I didn't know what it said until a year after we left Freiburg, so we didn't get a chance to visit the places named in the city. Best of luck to you in your researches and time in Freiburg.

Ewald, If you run into the FETZ name among your "F's", FRANK,FRANKE and FRANCKH I am looking for a Casper FETZ . Married to ___?____ BRAUN. They are the parents of JOSEPH FETZ, all of Oberkirch, Baden. Would be interested in knowing if Joseph FETZ had any siblings. There should be records in the Catholic Church Records. Thanks you for your offer and would be grateful for anything that you may find ,but do not want to be a burden on your time. Again thanks for your most generous offer. Tony Fetz FETZ, BRAUN, SCHAPPACH, KEC?LER ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Re: DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-D Digest V05 #44 > Hello Baden researchers, > > I am just in Freiburg in Breisgau to research my BUTZ, FRANK, FRANCK, > FRANCKH, HENSLE, GOETZ, GOTT, GOETTIN, ESCHLER ancestors on micro films in > the > Erzbischoefliches Archiv for the catholic Baden parishs. > If you need some information, tell me. > > Ewald Butz > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for > neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from > your searched town. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

Maurine, If that Valentine Derendinger is of any value to you, his wives in order were: Elisabeth Conrad, married April 19, 1790; she died January 10, 1812 Theresia Eisenmann, married August 13, 1812 Maria Ludgardis Saur, married February 10, 1825 The last marriage was at Achern and I believe the earlier two may have been there also. Some where I have some notes on children of the first marriage as one of them, another Valentin offered confusion to the search at one time. However, with only the third marriage fitting into my Sur/Saur/Sauer framework, the rest of my Derendinger notes are just that, scribbled notes on some page in one of several folders. djweber [email protected]

Ewald---How kind of you to make such a research request for lookups. I have been looking for information on my Great Grandmother----Christenia Hoffman B. May 4, 1832 in Baden-Goghsheim. She married in Syracuse, NY in 1855. I want to find her parents and siblings, etc. I am also attempting to go back further in my Great Grandfather's family--Michael and Maria Anna Schweilger--Both born and died in Ottenhoefen (The Registry in Freiburg sent me all the dates of birth for all their children. I would like to get back to another generation. Thank you for anything you might find. Regards- Toni Walier McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Re: DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-D Digest V05 #44 Hello Baden researchers, I am just in Freiburg in Breisgau to research my BUTZ, FRANK, FRANCK, FRANCKH, HENSLE, GOETZ, GOTT, GOETTIN, ESCHLER ancestors on micro films in the Erzbischoefliches Archiv for the catholic Baden parishs. If you need some information, tell me. Ewald Butz ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429