I had been behind in handling the messages within my inbox. I had side-messages to answer and messages where I believed I could offer some information to the List members. Then I left for a short trip going back "home" to visit my daughters and their families. That short trip turned out to be a longer stay than I had anticipated. I am now further behind and there are more messages. This means that I have back-logged messages in my inbox, some which are to be answered and some which hopefully might suggest offering some information to the List. My apologizes for being behind and my warning that I will be sending additional List messages soon. djweber [email protected]

Tony: There could be any number of reasons why the mortality rate might seem particurarly high at any given time. Though the round of diseases that made their way through the countryside may not have been "epidemic" they were nonetheless deadly. Name anyone of the diseases for which we are vaccinated as children and you can be sure that it made its way through our ancestor's villages at one time or another. I am not certain of the timing with the 3 boys you mention but through this period of time (or close to it) there was also a great deal of political upheaval involving armies which would have disrupted planting and harveting. So hunger due to poor harvests due to political upheaval, drought or even poor circumstances could have weakened them and left them vulnerable to disease. In short there are a million and one things that could have contributed to their deaths. I, too, have rarely seen a cause of death (or at least one that I could interpret) on any of my village's records (Urloffen). I attribute it to "just didn't matter" or the recording priest didn't know. Dan Bravard II Great-great-grandson Casper Schneider, b. 1830, Urloffen, Offenburg, Baden ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Cause of death > List Members, > > I have been keeping myself busy going through about 10 films from LDS from > Church Records of Oberkirch, Baden. I have copied many and had them > transcribed and translated by German Historical Research Society Inc. > These people do a fantastic job and I have learned much, much more about > my German heritage than I have in the past 15 years. > Now, I have another question for the list membership. I have noticed among > the many death documents recorded by the church that never was a reason > for death given or recorded. Did they just not record the cause of death > or is there other records that would contain this information. The reason > I ask this question poses another question. During the early 1800's the > family had children born in 1812, 1814, 1815, 1818, 1819, 1821. The first > three children immigrated to America with the father and mother. The last > three children (boys) died between 1822 and 1828. All less than 10 years > old. Was there some sort of disease within the country at that time that > would have caused a higher than usual mortality rate among the young > children? Could war have been a reason for death? > I would like to hear from you as to your thought on this matter. > > Regards, Tony Fetz >

List Members, I have been keeping myself busy going through about 10 films from LDS from Church Records of Oberkirch, Baden. I have copied many and had them transcribed and translated by German Historical Research Society Inc. These people do a fantastic job and I have learned much, much more about my German heritage than I have in the past 15 years. Now, I have another question for the list membership. I have noticed among the many death documents recorded by the church that never was a reason for death given or recorded. Did they just not record the cause of death or is there other records that would contain this information. The reason I ask this question poses another question. During the early 1800's the family had children born in 1812, 1814, 1815, 1818, 1819, 1821. The first three children immigrated to America with the father and mother. The last three children (boys) died between 1822 and 1828. All less than 10 years old. Was there some sort of disease within the country at that time that would have caused a higher than usual mortality rate among the young children? Could war have been a reason for death? I would like to hear from you as to your thought on this matter. Regards, Tony Fetz

Hi, maybe not only for our Oberschopfheim researchers. A celebration of 2 societies (music and sports) in Oberschopfheim: http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=47 - Wendelin

DJ, How are you doing out there? I have been reading some of your posts and have been quite for awhile . Been busy as you suggested earlier at the Library. The Death Record that I have is for Caspar Fetz and it list his wife a Leutgarde Braun. Who I have already established with their children's birth records being consistent in each case. I also have located a Lutgardis Braun on the same Renchtal Oberkirch 1759-1796 Totenbuch (book 2). of the Kirchenbucher. That prompted me to ask my question in the first place because I was actually searching for a Lutgardis Fetz instead of Leutgardis Braun. I found a record for Leutgardis Braun. This brings us back to your answer of yes, the maiden names stays with the woman throughout her life in Europe. (In most cases that is). Good to hear from you and as ever I knew I could depend on an old friend for an answer. Regards, Tony P.S. I'll copy that record next week on my visit to the library and have it translated just to get the information it contains. Not a very clear document as I recall. Will keep you posted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] names and maiden names

Tony, Maurine has given you the answer. You have run into the norm of Central European genealogy. I can not guarantee that this is the standard for every non-English country but wherever I have searched in Europe I have found the maiden name to continue with the woman for her entire life. This has continued even into North America in Québec where the French do not remember that they lost a war in 1764. In Montréal you will find statues of early pioneers, man and woman, with different names even though they were husband and wife. The wife's maiden name was/is used. You could have a variation, though. Remember that the baptismal record may have listed only the vorname rather than both the vorname and the Ruf name. It, therefore, is possible that in later rites, marriage, births of children, death, the Ruf name might be used rather than the vorname. Also spellings of both the surname and the vorname may have varied depending on the abilities of the Priest/Minister. Going back to French-Canada, I have found women identified over the years with up to four different first names. Another variation but a rare variation is for a widow. Seldom the name of the first husband is listed for the woman during her life with the second husband. This probably is caused by the thought that the Priest/Minister was new and had little knowledge of the prior marriage. For your Leutgarde Braun the Braun surname in parts of Baden is very common. And the first name was common to many girls. Do not accept that the "Leutgard Braun" as your ancestor without searching in the death record for the identification of the husband and/or the age at the time of death. Is Kaspar Fetz identified in the death record? In particular with your spelling of "Leutgarde", you may find other spellings in various rites. The original Saint was identified as Lutgardis (a Benedictine and a mystic) and while Lutgardis may be the normal name, other spellings (or misspellings) are found in various Church Registers. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:56 AM Subject: [Ortenau] names and maiden names > List Members, > I have a question for the researchers on the list. Which I might add make > this open to anyone on the list. Last night I was going through a LDS tape > of "TOTE" records from Oberkirch, Baden and ran across what appeared to be > the wife of my gr-gr-gr-gr-grandfather, Caspar Fetz. He married a woman by > the name of Leutgarde Braun. She passed away in 1785 before her husband > Caspar who died in 1790. My question is, during this period of time was > the wife listed in death records by her maiden name and not her married > name? This listing was Leutgarde Braun and not Leutgarde Fetz. Or was this > perhaps another person of the same name. > I never made a copy of the record but suppose that I should to study the > detail. > Thanks for the advise that I am about to receive....... > > Regards, > Tony Fetz

Tony, To answer your question - yes, maiden names were used. All sources that I have encountered - microfilm, IGI and kinship books give maiden names. Good luck! Maurine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:56 AM Subject: [Ortenau] names and maiden names > List Members, > I have a question for the researchers on the list. Which I might add make this open to anyone on the list. Last night I was going through a LDS tape of "TOTE" records from Oberkirch, Baden and ran across what appeared to be the wife of my gr-gr-gr-gr-grandfather, Caspar Fetz. He married a woman by the name of Leutgarde Braun. She passed away in 1785 before her husband Caspar who died in 1790. My question is, during this period of time was the wife listed in death records by her maiden name and not her married name? This listing was Leutgarde Braun and not Leutgarde Fetz. Or was this perhaps another person of the same name. > I never made a copy of the record but suppose that I should to study the detail. > Thanks for the advise that I am about to receive....... > > Regards, > Tony Fetz > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > < http://www.stadtplandienst.de/ > offers detailed on-line maps of the town of your ancestor. From the map of Offenburg, by moving and resizing, the streets of your ancestor's home town can be found. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

List Members, I have a question for the researchers on the list. Which I might add make this open to anyone on the list. Last night I was going through a LDS tape of "TOTE" records from Oberkirch, Baden and ran across what appeared to be the wife of my gr-gr-gr-gr-grandfather, Caspar Fetz. He married a woman by the name of Leutgarde Braun. She passed away in 1785 before her husband Caspar who died in 1790. My question is, during this period of time was the wife listed in death records by her maiden name and not her married name? This listing was Leutgarde Braun and not Leutgarde Fetz. Or was this perhaps another person of the same name. I never made a copy of the record but suppose that I should to study the detail. Thanks for the advise that I am about to receive....... Regards, Tony Fetz

Last week as an improvement the < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm > adjusted their format. Those of you who know me know that I had preferred the < heavens-above> location as it identified hearby towns ("Nearest Neighbours") which helped figure out where ancestors might have moved from or to, < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > and the distance to those neighboring towns in kilometers. The fact that < heavens-above > did not have maps was not a problem as maps were always available at a number of other sites if maps to determine hills and valleys between the towns could have aided or denied movement. On July 20, I noticed that the < jewishgen.org > site added the same idea of nearby towns to its site. This addition is in miles so it adds additional town possibilities. Of course, the < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm > site still includes links to on-line basic maps. If we are stumped for possible movement of our ancestors, we now have two possibilities at these web sites to determine potential new locations. djweber [email protected]

Hello Wendelin, > today, I would like to ask the following: > > 1) I have ancestors in Ober- and Unterentersbach. Who knows where to > look for data (parish records, 17.-19.th century)? Zell > 2) I found out that data for Biberach pre-dating 1715 can be found in > the parish records of Zell/Harmersbach. These records go back to 1654. > Does anybody know whether Zell was part of another parish before that? No other parish. > 3) Who can tell me where Neuhausen is situated? I suppose not far from > Zell/Harmersbach North of Zell. A map shows another Neuhausen as part of Berghaupten. > 4) Is there a "Hochstetten" next to Biberach or just a "Hoffstetten" in > that area? I know only Hofstetten. > > 5) Who knows a village called Ingersbach? No idea. I can only offer: Wingerbach and the old word of Bermersbach: Beringersbach First of all thank you very much for your instant support regarding my questions! And then, I would like to follow my fellow-genealogists and give you all the honour for your great work in this forum! Have a super good (holiday) time!! Kurt.

Thanks again, Wendelin!! Your kind posting of the pictures of costumes brought back memories of our visit, especially to the Heimat Museum in Altenheim. We were particularly interested in the traditional dress which I understand was still common until the Second World War, especially for women. We were told that each village had a distinctive style of hair piece for women. It is supposedly possible to identify a woman's village from a photo if she is wearing a traditional style. Jim --- Wendelin Irslinger <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > maybe you are interested in traditional costumes of > the 19th century. > > Yesterday was a meeting of some Ortenau groups > (Kreistrachtenfest) in Sand. > > You can view some photos at: > http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=43 > > - Wendelin > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > If you are new to this Ortenau List, please check > the Archives to see if any messages have been posted > about your surname or your town. > < > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/DEU-BAD-ORTENAU.html > >. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about > your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the > last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Applause, applause, accolades, flowers whatever your heart desires, Wendelin! This information is wonderful ... back to when the first child was born in 1695! WOW! I never dreamed that I would ever get this far back in time. Too bad there are no birth dates; but this information is great. DANKE, DANKE!!! :) Warm regards, Sandra ... in very hellish, hot Las Vegas, Nevada. In a message dated 7/17/2005 3:00:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Hello Sandra, > > it follows the parents of Katharina Strohler: > > Taglöhner = daylaborer > Bauer = farmer > u. = und = and > Wirt = host, innkeeper > Kinder = children > > 2587 oo > Martin Strohler, Taglöhner, Bauer u. Wirt, * ..., + 29.3.1729 > Anna Maria Heizmann, * ..., + 10.10.1739 > Kinder: > 1. Johannes * 27.12.1695, + 8.9.1711 > 2. Katharina * 1.1.1698 <686> > 3. Anna Maria * 25.2.1700 <1421> > 4. Franz Gabriel * 1.3.1706 > > > BTW: thanks to all for the applause. > > - Wendelin >

Hi, maybe you are interested in traditional costumes of the 19th century. Yesterday was a meeting of some Ortenau groups (Kreistrachtenfest) in Sand. You can view some photos at: http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=43 - Wendelin

Hello Sandra, it follows the parents of Katharina Strohler: Taglöhner = daylaborer Bauer = farmer u. = und = and Wirt = host, innkeeper Kinder = children 2587 oo Martin Strohler, Taglöhner, Bauer u. Wirt, * ..., + 29.3.1729 Anna Maria Heizmann, * ..., + 10.10.1739 Kinder: 1. Johannes * 27.12.1695, + 8.9.1711 2. Katharina * 1.1.1698 <686> 3. Anna Maria * 25.2.1700 <1421> 4. Franz Gabriel * 1.3.1706 BTW: thanks to all for the applause. - Wendelin

Hello Wendelin, I've said thank you in different ways before, but this is a special one - lined up in standing ovation fashion. :-) I also applaud you for the wonderful job you have done! It is commendable - the generosity and kindness you've shown in giving of your time and talent to help us all. We are so fortunate to have you! If there is still room left, I would be honored to have a place on your new website! Thank you so much for your kind offer. Carol Rogers St. Louis, MO

In a message dated 7/9/2005 8:53:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Again, the new pages are: > < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/ > and > < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. > Again, thank you dj! Regards, Sandra

Danke Wendelin! For everything! Regards, Sandra

I, too, wish to publicly thank Wendelin. He has helped me with several different family names and was so generous and kind. He helps quietly and without thought of thanks. All who have been helped or touched by his expertise, will be forever grateful. Pat Zipf Jamesburg NJ USA ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:00 PM Subject: DEU-BAD-ORTENAU-D Digest V05 #68

Hello Friends, Another round of applause for Wendelin! We are indeed blessed to have quite possibly the most capable, accomplished and talented administrator on the Web! How lucky we are! D.J. is also a shining star. Thanks to both of you for sharing your wisdom and expertise. Your commitment to our research efforts is unmatched. We honor and thank you! Kindest regards, Linda Rains Stecher/Renchen

I too, wish to thank Wendelin and djweber as well for all the extremely helpful information they have given us. Because of their kindness I was able to trace my Grandfather's (Michael Gaiser) family to Ottenhoefen. Someone on the list gave me the email address for Freiburg Ancestry and they snail mailed me info about his parents as well as D of B and D of D on all his siblings. The kindness shown here is truly extraordinary and I wish to thank everyone involved. Toni Walier McCarthy