Hello Dick and Pat: > >> His wife Theresia (Therese) was born September 15, 1785, in > >> Neiderschopfheim (her parents were named Michael JUENE and Anne Maria > >> METZ). > I have checked my database and don't seen a connection to my family. There > may be one, but I don't have any of these names listed in my program. Pat, if I remember right you have the following person: Sebastian Kühne, son of Johannes Kühne and Anna Maria Baumann oo 1774 ... and I believe Dick has the following: Michael Kühne, son of Johannes Kühne and Anna Maria Baumann oo Anna Maria Metz - Wendelin

Hello Dick, Sorry for the delay in replying to your kind information. I have checked my database and don't seen a connection to my family. There may be one, but I don't have any of these names listed in my program. Not sure where they might fit in....but will save the information for future reference. Thank you once again for your help. All the very best, Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:33 AM > Subject: Niederschopfheim > > >> Hello Pat Zipf, >> >> In an earlier message you named 16 ancestors that you were interested in, >> including Juene, Heitz and Metz. (WOW!) If you're following that many >> families - what do you do with your idle time??? >> >> I can contribute very little to your special interests, but the following >> may help: >> >> Martin Fischbach was born on October 23, 1781, in Neiderschopfheim (his >> parents were named Jacob Fischbach and Ursula HEITZ). >> >> His wife Theresia (Therese) was born September 15, 1785, in >> Neiderschopfheim (her parents were named Michael JUENE and Anne Maria >> METZ). >> >> Dick >> >> ______________________________ >

Carol and dj, > I might guess that all your early searchings with all the different > variantions in spellings would end up today with families of the name of > Ehrhardt. some families prefered Ehret (because it's shorter?) and some Ehrhardt in Niederschopfheim. I believe there are more Ehret than Ehrhardt in Hohberg nowadays. Therefore it's really not easy to determine if you should write Ehret or Ehrhardt. - Wendelin

Carol, > So are all those names of the various spellings looking like > Ehret/Ehrhard/Ehrhart (and more) all spelled Ehrhardt? no. I believe every researcher has his/her own method to decide which name to enter. Sometimes the priest wrote for the same person Ehret, Ehrhardt... I write Ehrhardt if the person signed with that name and I use it if the descendants signed with that name. - Wendelin

Carol, We are researching old variances in spelling, in phonics and in hearing. We can become modern! I do use the Church Register names in my database and I do indicate if the name varied from rite to rite or time to time but I understand that a modern name may be used historically for all the earlier variations. I am certain that in my Ortenau town searches that I have some individuals who had one spelling of their surname in the baptismal record, a second spelling in the marriage record and a third spelling when children were born and a fourth spelling in the death record. Spelling today perhaps might offer even a different spelling. Our Sur and Saur searches all lead to the current spelling of the Sauer family. Even with the old Church Registers using the old spellings, all the families in the newly published Oensbach Familienbuch are spelled as Sauer. I might guess that all your early searchings with all the different variantions in spellings would end up today with families of the name of Ehrhardt. djweber [email protected]

Dick, A long round-about way? It was much easier for those who settled in the St Lauis area to have landed at New Orleans and have used the Mississippi River to reach the Alton area. New York to Albany on the Hudson River, the Erie Canal which opened in 1825 to Buffalo, Lake Erie to Toledo and a long walk to the southwest is NOT likely plus the Erie Canal portion was very, very slow. The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad may have been chartered with rails laid starting before 1830 but by 1832 that railhead was still somewhere in Maryland, not that far west of Baltimore; another long walk after leaving the train? The National Road aka Cumberland Road aka National Pike (approximately today's U S Route 40) from Cumberland/Baltimore to the west was the easiest route although it really wasn't much farther than Wheeling (now West Virginia), just slightly into Ohio at your 1832 time. However, this did connect with the Ohio River which offered a route to the Mississippi River. Still round-about but better than walking from New York to Alton. This also was probably the safest way as the National Road was a beehive of wagons; much less chance for robbery with such heavy "highway" traffic.. From New York to Baltimore and then wagon and boat the rest of the way to Alton. However, our Germanic ancestors were often of their own mind and your ancestors might have found some other way to reach Alton that we could never guess. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:48 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Getting from NYC to Alton, Illinois? > In 1832 my ancestor and her 3 children arrived at New York, together with > friends and relatives who were also emigrating from Baden. Several > months later this group was in Alton, Illinois, apparently joining other > German emigrees who were already there. > > How did they get from NYC to Alton? Via the Great Lakes, inland rivers, > overland roads or by coast travel to New Orleans and thence via steamboat > (did steamboats exist in 1832?) to Alton/St. Louis? Since some emigrees > were already in Alton, the route to that community was obviously well > known and must have been imparted to the new group long before their > arrival in Illinois. > > I'm confident that some of the members of this list have successfully > researched the travel route from NYC to Alton. Please help - it's been > bugging me for years! > > Dick

Wendelin, >That is true, Barbara Gegg was born in Hofweier 13 March 1699 and the couple married in Hofweier 8 January 1725. I write Ehrhardt for Johannes Adam as familyname.< So are all those names of the various spellings looking like Ehret/Ehrhard/Ehrhart (and more) all spelled Ehrhardt? Between Hofweier and Niederschopheim, I've seen quite a variety of spellings that look like they could be the same surname. On the tombstone of a nephew of my Gegg ancester (Joseph Gegg mg. to Josepha Woerter) was listed Severin Gegg who was married to Rosina, and her part on the tombstone read: "Rosina Gegg nee Ehret". Both were born in Hofweier. Was that just the spelling of the time before the name evolved into Ehrhardt, or considered a different spelling to distinguish two different lines of the same family, or just different surnames? With that on Rosina's tombstone in the U.S. makes me think that it was not just a mispelling of her name. Carol -----Original Message----- From: djweber [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 2:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Carol -- Niederschopfheim -- Relaying a Message from Wendelin Carol, > > I'm printing out this info and will compare it to what I've got. I do > have > a family sheet started for Sebastian Schaub married to Maria Eva Ehret. > They had a son, Joseph Schaub, who married Anna Maria Ehret, daughter of I believe this couple had 9 children. My ancestor is Jakob. > Joannis Adam Ehret and Barbara Geck, on 9 January 1747 in > Niederschopfheim. > My suspicions are that Barbara Geck relates to the Geggs in Hofweier, > another line of mine, as you well know. That is true, Barbara Gegg was born in Hofweier 13 March 1699 and the couple married in Hofweier 8 January 1725. I write Ehrhardt for Johannes Adam as familyname. - Wendelin ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== If you are new to this Ortenau List, please check the Archives to see if any messages have been posted about your surname or your town. < http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/DEU-BAD-ORTENAU.html >. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

In 1832 my ancestor and her 3 children arrived at New York, together with friends and relatives who were also emigrating from Baden. Several months later this group was in Alton, Illinois, apparently joining other German emigrees who were already there. How did they get from NYC to Alton? Via the Great Lakes, inland rivers, overland roads or by coast travel to New Orleans and thence via steamboat (did steamboats exist in 1832?) to Alton/St. Louis? Since some emigrees were already in Alton, the route to that community was obviously well known and must have been imparted to the new group long before their arrival in Illinois. I'm confident that some of the members of this list have successfully researched the travel route from NYC to Alton. Please help - it's been bugging me for years! Dick

In a message dated 10/9/2005 8:38:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: There is a company in western Canada who will supply 1 : 25 000 maps but only of eastern Germany, mostly the lost provinces and those maps are historic to a point in time. dj, do you have the address of this company? Thanks Chuck Schober ----Melissa, Texas

We hope it will be only temporary but Rootsweb is currently refusing any mail from the server used by Wendelin, < gmx.de >. Rootsweb outgoing mail will be sent to < gmx.de > users but incoming mail is blocked. You may continue to send your questions to the List and if Wendelin can help, he will see your message, then formulate a return message which he will send to me so that I can post it to the List for him. Rootsweb through its Help Desk no longer wants to talk to me about the situation. I believe that no one at that level has any ability to adjust the Rootsweb status. The statement is that < gmx.de > is internationally blacklisted. This is probably for server Spamming but the individuals who use the service are being unjustly injured. djweber [email protected]

Carol, > > I'm printing out this info and will compare it to what I've got. I do > have > a family sheet started for Sebastian Schaub married to Maria Eva Ehret. > They had a son, Joseph Schaub, who married Anna Maria Ehret, daughter of I believe this couple had 9 children. My ancestor is Jakob. > Joannis Adam Ehret and Barbara Geck, on 9 January 1747 in > Niederschopfheim. > My suspicions are that Barbara Geck relates to the Geggs in Hofweier, > another line of mine, as you well know. That is true, Barbara Gegg was born in Hofweier 13 March 1699 and the couple married in Hofweier 8 January 1725. I write Ehrhardt for Johannes Adam as familyname. - Wendelin

Wendelin, I'm printing out this info and will compare it to what I've got. I do have a family sheet started for Sebastian Schaub married to Maria Eva Ehret. They had a son, Joseph Schaub, who married Anna Maria Ehret, daughter of Joannis Adam Ehret and Barbara Geck, on 9 January 1747 in Niederschopfheim. My suspicions are that Barbara Geck relates to the Geggs in Hofweier, another line of mine, as you well know. Carol -----Original Message----- From: djweber [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Carol -- Niederschopfheim -- Relaying a Message from Wendelin Carol, I have maybe some of your names in my own familytree. My 1st Balthasar Ehrhardt was father of Johannes Ehret (Ehrhardt) who married in 1705. The 2nd Balthasar Ehret was born in 1724. And I have also a Bernhard Schaub in my familytree. I don't know his wife. I only know that his son Sebastian Schaub married Maria Eva Ehret (Ehrhardt) in 1705. Wendelin ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Dick, I researched a little bit the Fischbach familytree. Reason is that one of my ancestors married as 1st wife (I am descendant of his 2nd wife) Brigitta Fischbach (it was her 2nd marriage), sister of your ancestor. The only daughter of this marriage who grew-up married Ludwig Vetter and emigrated with him to the US in 1854. Maybe you have already the following data: Jakob Fischbach oo Ursula Heitz Children: Brigitta Fischbach (* 1776, + 1824) Johannes Fischbach (* 1777) Jakob Fischbach (* 1779) emigrated(?) 1817(?), + 1839 Martin Fischbach (* 1781) Agatha Fischbach (* 1784) Alexander Fischbach (* 1787, + 1833) Valentin Fischbach (* 1790) Wendelin

Carol, I have maybe some of your names in my own familytree. My 1st Balthasar Ehrhardt was father of Johannes Ehret (Ehrhardt) who married in 1705. The 2nd Balthasar Ehret was born in 1724. And I have also a Bernhard Schaub in my familytree. I don't know his wife. I only know that his son Sebastian Schaub married Maria Eva Ehret (Ehrhardt) in 1705. Wendelin

Hello Pat Zipf, In an earlier message you named 16 ancestors that you were interested in, including Juene, Heitz and Metz. (WOW!) If you're following that many families - what do you do with your idle time??? I can contribute very little to your special interests, but the following may help: Martin Fischbach was born on October 23, 1781, in Neiderschopfheim (his parents were named Jacob Fischbach and Ursula HEITZ). His wife Theresia (Therese) was born September 15, 1785, in Neiderschopfheim (her parents were named Michael JUENE and Anne Maria METZ). Dick

DJ, I'm sure there are many more maps on Germany out there, and your descriptions made me think of a map I ordered via the internet before I found the one previously described. An e-mail friend recommended the site as he was able to read through the German language, and I was at my very beginnings of not knowing anything. Fortunately he was there to walk me through the whole way, as I blindly ordered this map. However, he warned me that he wasn't sure how far of an area it would cover. Fortunately it did go as far north as Schutterwald and Ortenberg, but unfortunately it barely had reached Ebersweier, which was the only town I had done any research on at the time - and I wasn't even sure that was the right one. As I said, I was barely past the start line of my German research .... sound familiar, anyone? Anyway, the short end of the story is that this $6 map ended up costing me $15 because of all the shipping and transfer of funds expenses. Then how disappointed I was to find that it barely touched the area of Baden that I was searching for. So that map has since been stored away and forgotten until I read your e-mail. Pulling it out now, wiping off the dust, I was quite surprised to realize that Hohberg, Niederschopfheim, Oberschopfheim, Zunsweier, and all those other towns I've learned about since are there in large print for me to view. Yes, you are right. All that extra detail is really nice to study - even if all the little red squares don't match the exact number of houses in those towns! Now I'll have to get busy with my German dictionary to figure out what all the symbols mean. Carol -----Original Message----- From: djweber [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 8:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Ortenau] maps of Germany Carol, That Hammond map reminds of a smaller sized book/atlas which AAA had about ten years old. I didn't buy the AAA book/atlas and I have kicked myself since then. Today, there are so many map makers on-line including so many town Stadtplan sites that I probably could toss out the boxes of maps I have....but I won't. When I lived in Ohio, there was an outfit near Chicago which sold the Landesvermessungsamt maps. When I moved to Illinois, that company had moved to Utah and stopped handling the German maps. For an overall view, I have a 1937 Andrees Hand-Atlas which covers better than 90% of the towns in Germany but to get an idea of how that Sauer line moved from Zusenhofen to Urloffen to Oensbach to Grossweier with side trips into a number of other towns, these 1 : 25 000 Topographische Karte are excellent. If I needed any more of the Baden area, the only way I could obtain them now would be to find some contact in Germany who would be willing to obtain them and to be certain that I supplied him with sufficient Euros for the maps, the mailing costs and his time. Agreed these are not historic maps; the earliest ones I have are 1985 views and I obtained a few more of the 2003 issues but you can count the number of buildings in each town, the detail is so exact. There is a company in western Canada who will supply 1 : 25 000 maps but only of eastern Germany, mostly the lost provinces and those maps are historic to a point in time. Maps are so important in our searches, particularly in our Baden needs. Our Ortenau towns are so close to or are in the Black Forest and our ancestors were not mountain goats so the topographic views are necessary so we can figure out how they met other people, how they traded with others, how they moved to another town....it helps us understand them and what they did. djweber [email protected] ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Carol, That Hammond map reminds of a smaller sized book/atlas which AAA had about ten years old. I didn't buy the AAA book/atlas and I have kicked myself since then. Today, there are so many map makers on-line including so many town Stadtplan sites that I probably could toss out the boxes of maps I have....but I won't. When I lived in Ohio, there was an outfit near Chicago which sold the Landesvermessungsamt maps. When I moved to Illinois, that company had moved to Utah and stopped handling the German maps. For an overall view, I have a 1937 Andrees Hand-Atlas which covers better than 90% of the towns in Germany but to get an idea of how that Sauer line moved from Zusenhofen to Urloffen to Oensbach to Grossweier with side trips into a number of other towns, these 1 : 25 000 Topographische Karte are excellent. If I needed any more of the Baden area, the only way I could obtain them now would be to find some contact in Germany who would be willing to obtain them and to be certain that I supplied him with sufficient Euros for the maps, the mailing costs and his time. Agreed these are not historic maps; the earliest ones I have are 1985 views and I obtained a few more of the 2003 issues but you can count the number of buildings in each town, the detail is so exact. There is a company in western Canada who will supply 1 : 25 000 maps but only of eastern Germany, mostly the lost provinces and those maps are historic to a point in time. Maps are so important in our searches, particularly in our Baden needs. Our Ortenau towns are so close to or are in the Black Forest and our ancestors were not mountain goats so the topographic views are necessary so we can figure out how they met other people, how they traded with others, how they moved to another town....it helps us understand them and what they did. djweber [email protected]

Hello Jim and Wendelin, I checked my OSB Dundenheim but did not find any reference to this marriage. The only surname close to Bungert/Bonnert in the index is Bohnert and that is referenced only once. That is a reference in family no. 1585 to a Magdalena Bohnert who was born in Welschensteinach on 30 March 1909. There are several references to the Marx surname. Most of these are Evangelical families from Altenheim. But again there is no reference to this marriage. Wendelin - I understood that Dundenheim was a "mixed" village. There is both an Evangelical and a Catholic church there. And the OSB references both traditions. Am I mistaken? Thanks a lot to you both! May I ask whether there is a Johann Georg Marx in Altenheim who could fit to my ancestor - born ca. 1640 - 1650? Maybe the marriage to Mrs. Bungert took place in a different village... Best wishes Kurt Erlemann

Dick and Pat, I also have ties to Niederschopfheim, but that is before Hofweier/Hohberg comes into play. Michael WOERTER who was born in Hofweier on 29 Sep 1751 married Anna Maria VETTER born somewhere around 19 Sep 1758 in Zunsweier. I've yet to check Zunsweier records for verification, but Michael's parents were Joannes Martin WOERTER from Hofweier and Maria Anna SCHAUB born in Niederschopfheim. Maria Anna SCHAUB's parents were Johann Georg SCHAUB and Elisabetha MAYER (2nd wife). Johann Georg's first wife was Anna Maria LANG (widow of Balthasar EHRHARDT), and his parents were Bernard SCHAUB and Agnes EHRHARD. Bernard's parents were Georg SCHAUB and Apollonia ENGEL, who's marriage took place about 12 Jun 1643. I've mapped out a number of siblings and spouses for Schaub's in Niederschopfheim, as well as Hofweier and in Windschläg, with interests of finding how they all connect. Carol

Hello Dick, Welcome to the List. You will find it to be very friendly and helpful, I'm sure. Perhaps even find a cousin or two! You mention that your ancestors came from Niederschopfheim. Some of ours do too. Wonder what names you are interested in. Our interests are VETTER KUEHNE, KUHNE (and variants to that) HAASER METZ ELBLE MUTZ BUHRLE STADINGER BAUMANN HEITZ LEHMANN RUDOLPH CASPAR BENTZ, BAENTZ HAMMERER MAYENHAN plus a few more very distant ones Let me know if any of these match with yours. All the very best of luck with your searches. Pat Zipf Jamesburg NJ USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 2:27 PM Subject: Localities > I'm new to this list. One of my first items, of course, will be to review > the list's archives. In the meantime, can anyone tell me what is [or was] > the difference between Neiderschopfheim (from whence my ancestors > emigrated), Oberschopfheim and the present city of Schopfheim. Were the > first two suburbs of Schopfheim, did they merge to become Schopfheim, or > ........??? > > Dick > > ______________________________