This is really exciting! Franz Karl Sigele & Franziska Jll are my 3rd-gr grandparents - their daughter Pauline being my gg-grandmother. It's interesting that the name is "Jll" - even the IGI gives it as "Ill" and it certainly looked like that in the church records I found. I would love to have a copy of those pages. Is that possible? If you don't have a scanner, I will gladly reimburse you for any copy/postage costs. Since I don't see a connection to the other listings you mention, only these will be necessary. Thank you so much for your help! Claire -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

DJ, I was just contacted by a lady who is researching the Jäger surname from Ichenheim. I have suggested that she join the Baden Mailing List. At this point I am not quite sure what address to give her. Would you kindly tell me if the email address that I am sending this message to is the correct one to give out? I told her in my message that this group is extremely helpful and wonderful. My best - Maurine

On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire

Dick, You have some of your wanted names tied into specific dates and rites as a result of work and knowledge of Carol and Wendelin. You now know that Church Registers of Niederschopfheim have been filmed by the LDS and would be available, on order, to your local Family History Center. I do not know what type of equipment that Center might have, merely an old printer or one of the new computer printers which would allow you a paper copy, a copy to diskette or a copy to CDRom. May I suggest that after your ordered films arrive that you start by making two copies of these identified and then any further records. Certainly make a paper copy immediately for yourself and depending on the capabilities of your computer put that second copy on either a diskette or a CDRom for future use. If your local Center has perfected the machine's ability to e-mail a copy directly to your at-home computer, I would suggest a third copy. I suggest the paper copy for its immediate use and for the fact that printing your own copy off the diskette or CDRom could be longer and more complicated than you desire....again depending on your computer. djweber [email protected]

Hello Dick, With Wendelin's info, I trotted off to the FHC this morning to do a multitude of tasks. Surprisingly, I got all of them completed. So here is what I found on your Jakob, based on what Wendelin gave (which saves alot of time knowing the year): Jakob was born on 1 Jul 1748, but baptized on 2 Jul, to parents Joanis Fischbach (farmer and citizen of Niederschopfheim) and Anna Maria "Kiehn". Godfather was Martin Bardle? (?Burkle) and Godmother was Maria Eva Ehret, wife of Sebastian Ehret, farmer and citizen of Niederschopfheim. Jakob died 30 Jan 1814 "early 3 o'clock" at 68yrs, day worker - wife Ursula Heitz - and buried 31 Jan "early at 8". Witnesses were Jakob Fischbach (master shoemaker, I believe) and Martin Fischbach (day worker) - and I believe it said they were sons of the deceased, but would have liked to have seen the record magnified more for verification. But the dates are solid. Finishing this just minutes after the FHC closed, so I didn't get a marriage date on Johannes. As it was, these two records were on separate films. After leaving the FHC and spending all afternoon at the public library trying to gather more clues on my husband's "Rogers" line, I welcomed a relaxing evening away from genealogy! Carol -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 5:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Mrs. Heitz > Wendelin - you were able to obtain the wedding date of Jakob Fischbach > and Ursula Heitz. Can you furnish any information on Jakob, such as > dates of birth and death. Dick, I can tell you the name of Jakobs parents: Johannes Fischbach oo 1744 Anna Maria Kühne (or Maria Anna Kühne ?). My photo of his baptism entry is difficult to read but the year is 1748. Maybe Carol has a better copy. It seems Johannes Fischbach was married more than once and his place of origin was Heiligenzell. - Wendelin ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

To Wendelin, DJ, Pat and Carol Please accept my sincere thanks and appreciation for the tremendous information that you've furnished on Jakob Fischbach and Ursula Heitz (and their ancestors). All of you have given me far more data in the two weeks I've been on this list than in the many years spent trolling the internet. Your response has been overwhelming and I can't thank you enough. Dick Fischbach Arvada, CO USA

Hello Dick and Carol, Just saw this email from Wendelin to you. I have Joseph HEITZ and Anna Maria RUDOLPH also. We are descended from another of their daughters...Anna Maria HEITZ (born 27 Feb 1717/18) Joseph Heitz was born 12 Nov 1683....Anna Maria Rudolph was born 22 May 1686. Anna Maria Rudolph was the daughter of Sebastian Rudolph and his wife, Elisabetha Krumert. Joseph Heitz was the son of Johannes Heitz (1650-1693) and his wife, Ursula Baumann (1660-1734). Ursula Baumann was the daughter of Johannes and Maria Baumann. Johannes Heitz was the son of a Joseph Heitz (born c1620) Dick, I'm sorry that I didn't see our connection concerning Johannes KUEHNE/KUHNE (born 1705) and Anna Maria BAUMANN. Good thing that Wendlin caught my error for me. Seems that we are decsended from two different sons of theirs. We are descended from their son, Sebastian...and you from their son, Michael. Johannes Kuhne/Kuehne was the son of another Johannes Kuehne/Kuhne and his wife, Magdalena Buhrle/Bihrle. That is all that I have at present on those lines. Sorry that it took me so long to reply to your query. We have had a recent wedding and family visiting from England..add that to health problems. My sincere apologises for the long delay. All the very best, Pat Zipf Jamesburg NJ USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendelin Irslinger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz > Hello Dick and Carol, > > I think Jakob Fischbach married (Maria) Ursula Heitz on 9 January 1775. > Seems she was daughter of Joseph Heitz and Anna Maria Rudolph. > > - Wendelin > > ______________________________

> Wendelin - you were able to obtain the wedding date of Jakob Fischbach > and Ursula Heitz. Can you furnish any information on Jakob, such as > dates of birth and death. Dick, I can tell you the name of Jakobs parents: Johannes Fischbach oo 1744 Anna Maria Kühne (or Maria Anna Kühne ?). My photo of his baptism entry is difficult to read but the year is 1748. Maybe Carol has a better copy. It seems Johannes Fischbach was married more than once and his place of origin was Heiligenzell. - Wendelin

Dick, There are four rolls of film for Niederschopfheim. Perhaps your original search twisted the I and E vowels in the spelling? My thought is just that, the misspelling of the town name, which is the reason I have copied the full details. It looks as though the Pastors at Niederschopfheim were as exact as CPAs as they maintained records not only for baptisms, marriages and deaths but also statistics, Confirmations, family registers, children born of a no marriage situation and just about everything. Order all four and check out what you can. They are Catholic and for the information before 1810 the words will be in the easier-to-read Latin script. djweber [email protected] ---------- Title Kirchenbuch, 1690-1901 Authors Katholische Kirche Niederschopfheim (A. Offenburg) (Main Author) Notes Mikrofilm aufgenommen von Manuskripten im Erzbischöflichen Archiv Freiburg. Parish register of Niederschopfheim, also includes Schuttern. Baptisms, marriages, deaths, confirmations, communicants, and family registers. Subjects Germany, Baden, Niederschopfheim - Church records Format Manuscript (On Film) Language German Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Gefilmt durch The Genealogical Society of Utah, 1974 Physical 4 Mikrofilmrollen ; 35 mm. Film Notes Note - Location [Film] Heirats-, Toten-Index Taufen, Heiraten, Tote 1690-1717 - FHL INTL Film [ 957708 Item 1 ] Taufen 1717-1745 Heiraten 1717-1759 Tote 1718-1747 Firmungen 1726-1760 Firmungen-Statistik 1718-1771 - FHL INTL Film [ 957708 Item 2 ] Taufen-, Heiraten-, Tote-Index 1745-1767 Heiraten 1759-1771 Tote 1748-1772 Firmungen 1762-1791 - FHL INTL Film [ 957709 Item 1 ] Taufen 1767-1809 Heiraten 1772-1799 Tote 1772-1809 Firmungen 1800-1802 Tote 1781-1809 Uneheliche Kinder 1770-1809 - FHL INTL Film [ 957709 Item 2 ] Taufen 1810-1828 Firmungen 1830-1861 Tote 1810-1828 Uneheliche Kinder 1810-1828 - FHL INTL Film [ 957709 Item 3 ] Taufen 1829-1858 Verschiedene Akten Taufen 1859-1901 - FHL INTL Film [ 957710 Items 1-2 ] Heiraten 1800-1845 - FHL INTL Film [ 957710 Item 3 ] Heiraten 1846-1899 - FHL INTL Film [ 957710 Item 4 ] Tote 1829-1900 - FHL INTL Film [ 957711 Items 1-2 ] Familienbuch - FHL INTL Film [ 957711 Item 3 ] Familienbuch 1888 - FHL INTL Film [ 957711 Item 4 ]

Hello Dick and Carol, I think Jakob Fischbach married (Maria) Ursula Heitz on 9 January 1775. Seems she was daughter of Joseph Heitz and Anna Maria Rudolph. - Wendelin

Carol and Wendelin, Thanks for filling in some of the blanks on my Fischbach lineage. Maria Ursula Heitz has now been placed in the correct location on my computerized family tree (no accidental deletions this time!). About three years ago I visited the local FHC to order a Neiderschopfheim microfilm. Unfortunately, they were only able to find Oberschopfheim; as they were unable to find a Neiderschopfheim film they concluded that those records had never been copied. But I now find from Carol's message that indeed there is a Neiderschopfheim microfilm. I will visit the local FHC on the next day that they are open with, I hope, better results. Wendelin - you were able to obtain the wedding date of Jakob Fischbach and Ursula Heitz. Can you furnish any information on Jakob, such as dates of birth and death. Dick

Hello Dick, Well, your face might be glowing, but I appreciate your honesty. I'll see what I can find, but it won't be for at least several days as I've got some films going back to Salt Lake this Saturday and next Saturday and I want to take a last minute peek at some of those things while I still have a chance. One question, though .... how sure are you that the marriage I found in 1805 is the one you're looking for? Right now I'm not too sure how common Fischbachs are in Niederschopfheim. Is it Ursula Heitz or Jacob Fischbach that you are searching for? Your initial message sounded like Ursula Heitz was the main look-up. Carol -----Original Message----- From: Dick Fischbach [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz Hi Carol, If you look out your window and see a red glow in the sky you'll know that it's my red face burning with embarrassment. In trying to 'clean' the ancestor file on my computer I accidently deleted an entire generation of Fischbachs. And the most irritating part was the fact that I hadn't backed up the info. Obviously the 1813 marriage date was completely erroneous! I'm going to have to rebuild my database and I'd certainly appreciate your help by furnishing whatever details you may have on the Jakob Fischbach that married Magdalena Burckle on February 4, 1805, as mentioned in your message. Thanks in advance. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Rogers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz > Hello Dick,! > > I'd like to help you out since there are copies of all the > Niederschopfheim > films here at the local FHC, but I'm having a hard time finding the > marriage > you described by the names you gave. There was a Martin Fischbach that > married in 1813 to Theresia someone (I'd have to study over the film more > to > get the correct four letter name for that one), and a Jakob Fischbach that > married a Magdalena Bürckle on 4 Feb 1805, but not a Jakob in 1813 for the > filmed Catholic church records I have. Without finding that marriage, I > went no further to hunt for a birth as I was using 1813 as a basis to > count > back roughly at least 20 years in finding a baptismal record for Ursula > Heitz. Besides, with all the Heitz in the area, it is good to have the > parents' names in the marriage record to confirm the same in a baptismal > record - making sure to have the correct Ursula Heitz. Do you think the > marriage took place somewhere else? > > Perhaps another Lister might have the solution. My line of Heitz were > from > Ebersweier, but a well-known researcher has the Ebersweier Heitz mapped > out > on his web site and I didn't see Ursula there either. > > Carol > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dick Fischbach [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:57 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz > > > I'm attempting to fill in holes the Fischbach genealogy tree. Does any > one > on this list have information on the birth and death dates for Ursula > Heitz > (who married Jakob Fischbach in 1813 in Neiderschopfheim, Baden). > > Dick > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site > < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > If you are new to this Ortenau List, please check the Archives to see if > any messages have been posted about your surname or your town. > < http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/DEU-BAD-ORTENAU.html >. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de >. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

a genealogical webpage with many names especially from Lahr and Dinglingen: Thanks Chuck

Hi, a genealogical webpage with many names especially from Lahr and Dinglingen: in English: http://www.vieser.de/geneal/e/index.html in German: http://www.vieser.de/geneal/d/index.html - Wendelin

Hi Carol, If you look out your window and see a red glow in the sky you'll know that it's my red face burning with embarrassment. In trying to 'clean' the ancestor file on my computer I accidently deleted an entire generation of Fischbachs. And the most irritating part was the fact that I hadn't backed up the info. Obviously the 1813 marriage date was completely erroneous! I'm going to have to rebuild my database and I'd certainly appreciate your help by furnishing whatever details you may have on the Jakob Fischbach that married Magdalena Burckle on February 4, 1805, as mentioned in your message. Thanks in advance. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Rogers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz > Hello Dick,! > > I'd like to help you out since there are copies of all the > Niederschopfheim > films here at the local FHC, but I'm having a hard time finding the > marriage > you described by the names you gave. There was a Martin Fischbach that > married in 1813 to Theresia someone (I'd have to study over the film more > to > get the correct four letter name for that one), and a Jakob Fischbach that > married a Magdalena Bürckle on 4 Feb 1805, but not a Jakob in 1813 for the > filmed Catholic church records I have. Without finding that marriage, I > went no further to hunt for a birth as I was using 1813 as a basis to > count > back roughly at least 20 years in finding a baptismal record for Ursula > Heitz. Besides, with all the Heitz in the area, it is good to have the > parents' names in the marriage record to confirm the same in a baptismal > record - making sure to have the correct Ursula Heitz. Do you think the > marriage took place somewhere else? > > Perhaps another Lister might have the solution. My line of Heitz were > from > Ebersweier, but a well-known researcher has the Ebersweier Heitz mapped > out > on his web site and I didn't see Ursula there either. > > Carol > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dick Fischbach [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:57 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz > > > I'm attempting to fill in holes the Fischbach genealogy tree. Does any > one > on this list have information on the birth and death dates for Ursula > Heitz > (who married Jakob Fischbach in 1813 in Neiderschopfheim, Baden). > > Dick > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site > < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > If you are new to this Ortenau List, please check the Archives to see if > any messages have been posted about your surname or your town. > < http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/DEU-BAD-ORTENAU.html >. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hello Dick, I'd like to help you out since there are copies of all the Niederschopfheim films here at the local FHC, but I'm having a hard time finding the marriage you described by the names you gave. There was a Martin Fischbach that married in 1813 to Theresia someone (I'd have to study over the film more to get the correct four letter name for that one), and a Jakob Fischbach that married a Magdalena Bürckle on 4 Feb 1805, but not a Jakob in 1813 for the filmed Catholic church records I have. Without finding that marriage, I went no further to hunt for a birth as I was using 1813 as a basis to count back roughly at least 20 years in finding a baptismal record for Ursula Heitz. Besides, with all the Heitz in the area, it is good to have the parents' names in the marriage record to confirm the same in a baptismal record - making sure to have the correct Ursula Heitz. Do you think the marriage took place somewhere else? Perhaps another Lister might have the solution. My line of Heitz were from Ebersweier, but a well-known researcher has the Ebersweier Heitz mapped out on his web site and I didn't see Ursula there either. Carol -----Original Message----- From: Dick Fischbach [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ursula Heitz I'm attempting to fill in holes the Fischbach genealogy tree. Does any one on this list have information on the birth and death dates for Ursula Heitz (who married Jakob Fischbach in 1813 in Neiderschopfheim, Baden). Dick ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

If you are interested in celebrations: Pumkin (squash) festival in Windschläg: http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=58 Wine festival in Offenburg: http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=60

I'm attempting to fill in holes the Fischbach genealogy tree. Does any one on this list have information on the birth and death dates for Ursula Heitz (who married Jakob Fischbach in 1813 in Neiderschopfheim, Baden). Dick

Maurine, Maybe me.....but I'm no good. My searched for family is the Sur/Saur/Sauer family of Zusenhofen, then Urloffen and as of 1722 Önsbach....no Suhr. If your contact also spells the name "my way", different story. Although, depending on that contact's town of ancestry...... Carol and I believe Beverly also have some other Sur/Saur/Sauer families in their towns and maybe Linda is connected through her Stecher line, something being checked into. djwqeber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurine LeBlanc" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:10 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Suhr surname > Good day, > > I have a contact that just mentioned she was researching the Suhr name. If > I remember right, senior moments occur so often these days, someone in our > mailing list is searching that name also. Am I remembering right???? > > Good bye from beautiful Oregon. > > Maurine

Good day, I have a contact that just mentioned she was researching the Suhr name. If I remember right, senior moments occur so often these days, someone in our mailing list is searching that name also. Am I remembering right???? Good bye from beautiful Oregon. Maurine