Beautiful pictures, Wendelin. Thank you for sharing them with us. All the best, Pat (Zipf) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendelin Irslinger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Web Sites of possible interest > In Lahr are chrysanthemum weeks. Many visitors especially from France. > > You can see some pictures from Lahr at: > > http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=62 > > ______________________________

Tony, The easiest as well as most complicated description of the Auswanderer List is that personnel under the authority of Hans Glatzle of the Hautstaatsachiv in Stuttgart and Wolfgang Müller of the Generallandesarchiv in Karlsruhe with the final project hosted by the Faculty for Informatics of the University of Applied Science in Karlsruhe have attempted to enter on-line information of those individuals who did emigrate legally from Baden and Württemberg and those whose emigration records from Baden and from Württemberg were available. The original information to the Auswanderer List came from the Württemberg information. It was never complete. The Baden information was put in another database and then was added, also on a piecemeal basis to the Württemberg information. It was and is still a work in progress. It is not complete. Many emigrants have been added to the database. There was never the possibility of adding all the emigrants as many left their countries without legal authority and no record for many of those emigrations were available either in Stuttgart or in Karlsruhe. Recently there has been a change in the URL. From that new web site, Wendelin identified that certain emigrants are now listed with new/different towns of emigration. My own search at the new URL suggests that not all the listings which had been in the database are available at the new URL. My original thought was wait and see what happens.....if the missing names started to show up a few at a time. In other words, I thought that not all the entries had been made for the new database. As Wendelin had found some variations, I felt the problem which I had viewed also could be mentioned. I plan to try a few more names to see if I can determine any pattern to what is right or what is wrong. It could be only a short period of time for the web site to be as or more complete than it had been. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Emigration database B-W > Wendelin, > Are you saying that anyone that emigrated with permission should be listed > in this database? What years does this database suppose to cover? And is > all of > the B-W are represented? > > Tony

Wendelin, Are you saying that anyone that emigrated with permission should be listed in this database? What years does this database suppose to cover? And is all of the B-W are represented? Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendelin Irslinger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Emigration database B-W > dj, > > in the database there should be at least the people who emigrated with > permission and whose emigration document is still available in a state > archive. > I was pretty satisfied with the old database. I only missed the source > information like file number. > And with help of the old one I was able to find out that emigration docs > of ancestors and relatives exist. > > Did you (or another member) miss someone in the old database whose > emigration record is available? > > - Wendelin > >> Wendelin, >> >> I hope that the Auswanderer database, for now, is merely stuck in a >> growing pains situation. I have hesitated to make any comment about >> it even though it seemed to be lacking but I hoped that it meant that >> the old database was being entered into the new database in a >> piecemeal basis and just wasn't finished as yet. >> >> Whatever is happening, the new database is not complete, nor is it >> correct. >> >> My playing around with it was a result of that missing Johann Jaeger. >> In August there were 38 Johann Jäger listings; in October there were >> only 10 listings for the same time period. >> >> For now the database is not trustworthy. I feel it will be necessary >> to research it from time to time on just that one missing Johann Jäger >> to see what changes may result. Your information of changed towns >> makes it even more scary. >> >> However, this may be no different that previous searches. The >> original database was never complete but was an on-going project, >> albeit, a very slow on-going project. Many emigrants who were in >> Karlsruhe and Stuttgart records had not been entered in the old >> database. Now, who knows what the situation is. >> >> djweber >> [email protected] > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site > < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

I don't know if the new emigration database for Baden-Württemberg (the German link is:) https://www.la-bw.de/auswanderer/index.php?sprache=de&suche=1 (with a link to the English version) is an improvement or a worsening. I noticed that same emigrants moved to another town. In the old database I saw some emigrants for Kappel a. Rh. who moved now to Kappelrodeck. Another emigrant moved from Ohlsbach (Ebersweier) to Durbach (Ebersweier)... The question is which is the correct information. - Wendelin

Beverly, Rose's mail has been bouncing for the past couple of weeks. She had told me she had trouble with the one domain she was using in Canada but she did some switching to a new domain some time ago. I am at the point of deleting her from the List to save all the returned e-mail space to Wendelin; I then would try telephoning her to see if she and Peter have a new e-mail address or if they are without service, again.....her native-German intelligence is vital to many of us. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beverly Zanon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Rose Goutbeck > > Rose, > > If you are still a member of this list, please contact me privately. > > Your email addy is bouncing. > > Beverly >

Wendelin, I hope that the Auswanderer database, for now, is merely stuck in a growing pains situation. I have hesitated to make any comment about it even though it seemed to be lacking but I hoped that it meant that the old database was being entered into the new database in a piecemeal basis and just wasn't finished as yet. Whatever is happening, the new database is not complete, nor is it correct. My playing around with it was a result of that missing Johann Jaeger. In August there were 38 Johann Jäger listings; in October there were only 10 listings for the same time period. For now the database is not trustworthy. I feel it will be necessary to research it from time to time on just that one missing Johann Jäger to see what changes may result. Your information of changed towns makes it even more scary. However, this may be no different that previous searches. The original database was never complete but was an on-going project, albeit, a very slow on-going project. Many emigrants who were in Karlsruhe and Stuttgart records had not been entered in the old database. Now, who knows what the situation is. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendelin Irslinger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Emigration database B-W >I don't know if the new emigration database for Baden-Württemberg > > (the German link is:) > https://www.la-bw.de/auswanderer/index.php?sprache=de&suche=1 > (with a link to the English version) > > is an improvement or a worsening. > > I noticed that same emigrants moved to another town. > > In the old database I saw some emigrants for Kappel a. Rh. who moved now > to Kappelrodeck. > Another emigrant moved from Ohlsbach (Ebersweier) to Durbach > (Ebersweier)... > > The question is which is the correct information. > > > - Wendelin >

Rose, If you are still a member of this list, please contact me privately. Your email addy is bouncing. Beverly

In Lahr are chrysanthemum weeks. Many visitors especially from France. You can see some pictures from Lahr at: http://www.baden-online.de/news/bildarchiv/archiv.phtml?archiv_id=62

DJ and Wendelin, Thank you for taking the time to answer my ever persistent questions. Maurine

Hello Maurine, that's a town in Alsace north of Haguenau (Hagenau). Could he a descendant of the Derendinger who moved from Achern to Haguenau? - Wendelin On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:22:51 -0800 "Maurine LeBlanc" <[email protected]> wrote: > Greetings, > > Just today I was contacted by a Derendinger descendent and he said his > ancestors came from Ingolsheim. Can someone tell me if this village is > close to Ichenheim? Thanks again. > > Maurine

Maurine, This instance is a perfect use of the web site Beverly gave us, < http://tomcat-dmaweb1.jrc.it/fuzzyg/query/ >. Without any adjustment or qualification into country or features, it leads us directly to the Alsace. Then checking it against, < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > you can get its nearest neighbours but you really don't need them in this case. The only advantage is by using both of these sites, you end up with the two different identifications of Latitude and Longitude for Ingolsheim.....in case you ever want to plot the town on a map. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurine LeBlanc" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:22 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Location of village > Greetings, > > Just today I was contacted by a Derendinger descendent and he said his > ancestors came from Ingolsheim. Can someone tell me if this village is > close to Ichenheim? Thanks again. > > Maurine >

Greetings, Just today I was contacted by a Derendinger descendent and he said his ancestors came from Ingolsheim. Can someone tell me if this village is close to Ichenheim? Thanks again. Maurine

Hi Claire, I'm sending you the scans from the Osb. Friesenheim. I scanned the ancestral couple you identified, plus the additional entries cited for their families of origin, as coded by the entry numbers. So I did all the direct ancestral entries I could find - except other marriages by the ancestors. Just let me know if you want them. I also have the Osb. Oberweier. One of your entries cited to that book. The Oberweier pages are labeled as "a" and "b" for their file names, to keep the two series separate. I had to scan turn the book upside down for some pages, to avoid stress on the binding. Just let me know if I missed any entries! So far I didn't find any connection between our families. My ancestors from this area were Evangelical/Lutheran, although I am Catholic. Yours that I noticed were all Catholic. In America, many of my ancestors intermarried with other religions. In nearly all cases the non-Catholic turned Catholic. But I haven't uncovered intermarriage in Germany. To me, it is interesting that people of the two religions lived side in these small villages. I wonder whether Baden is unusual in that regard. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim This is really exciting! Franz Karl Sigele & Franziska Jll are my 3rd-gr grandparents - their daughter Pauline being my gg-grandmother. It's interesting that the name is "Jll" - even the IGI gives it as "Ill" and it certainly looked like that in the church records I found. I would love to have a copy of those pages. Is that possible? If you don't have a scanner, I will gladly reimburse you for any copy/postage costs. Since I don't see a connection to the other listings you mention, only these will be necessary. Thank you so much for your help! Claire -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de >. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Good morning [or at least here it is[, I've just been made aware of another URL by a fellow ISTG Transcriber where you enter a town name or a spelling variation of it. The Fuzzy Gazetter helps you to find cities and towns when you do not know their exact names. http://tomcat-dmaweb1.jrc.it/fuzzyg/query/ Try it out; you may find the town and/or location you've been looking for. Beverly Mack Zanon Charter Member/ISTG Research Team http://www.immigrantships.net Researching primarily NUSSBACH & OFFENBURG

Dick, There are several simple ways to determine if the town still exists. In this case, the easiest way is to go to < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/LocTown.asp >, type in heilgenzell, pull down Germany and click on "Start the Search". Two town names come up but only one is your Heilgenzell with location of 48-22/7-54. At this page you have a choice of three maps, E, M and U. I have found that the U, Multimap is often easier to play with in resizing it, when necessary. (Keep in mind that other sites may show a slight difference in latitute and longitude as there are two ways, Decimal Degrees and Degrees, Minutes and Seconds, to identify locations.) Your Multimap of Heilgenzell will give you a slight topographic view and it will start with the identification of todays roads from Heilgenzell to Friesenheim, to Lahr/Schwarzwald, to Dingligen, etc. You can work your way by zooming in or out at the Heilgenzell map for resizing the area. Going back to a web page before you went to the maps, the dot to the right on the < jewishgen > site where you found Heilgenzell will give you the nearby towns in distance of miles or kilometers (your choice). Again, there are other ways, also, but today for your specific question, this is my suggestion. djwber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <DEU-BA[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:32 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Village name? > Can anyone tell me where "Heiligenzell" was located. A distant ancestor > was born in that village in 1748. (Of course, the spelling of that town > may be corrupt and totally erroneous!). > > Dick Fischbach > Arvada, Colorado USA >

77948 Heiligenzell is located 1 mile northeast of Lahr and belongs to Friesenheim im Ortenaukreis K. Voelk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 1:32 AM Subject: [Ortenau] Village name? > Can anyone tell me where "Heiligenzell" was located. A distant ancestor > was born in that village in 1748. (Of course, the spelling of that town > may be corrupt and totally erroneous!). > > Dick Fischbach > Arvada, Colorado USA > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > List your surnames at the Ortenau Search web site > < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ >. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > >

Hi Claire, I'll send you the scans you need. I found it interesting that you were able to confirm that Jll = Ill. I don't think you will know for sure which is correct unless or until you see the original records. I had a similar experience with the entries for my Köhl ancestors in the Eichstetten Ortsfamilienbuch. I have the family bible, tombstone inscriptions, and photocopies of original entries in the Eichstettin church records - - all clearly showed the same spelling, including the umlaut. Imagine my shock in not finding a single entry for Köhl when I bought the Ortsfamilienbuch. Soon I found the entries, all under Kehl, even for those entries where my photocopies of original records show Köhl. The book does not even have a reference to Köhl as an alternative spelling. Of course, this slight frustration is far outweighed with my deep appreciation to the compiler for laying out my family tree for many generations. As a special bonus, the book traces one ancestor's descent from Johannes Brenz, the "Reformer of Württemberg," and Erhard Schnepf. Both were colleagues of Martin Luther! John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim This is really exciting! Franz Karl Sigele & Franziska Jll are my 3rd-gr grandparents - their daughter Pauline being my gg-grandmother. It's interesting that the name is "Jll" - even the IGI gives it as "Ill" and it certainly looked like that in the church records I found. I would love to have a copy of those pages. Is that possible? If you don't have a scanner, I will gladly reimburse you for any copy/postage costs. Since I don't see a connection to the other listings you mention, only these will be necessary. Thank you so much for your help! Claire -----Original Message----- From: Wendelin Irslinger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: {not a subscriber} [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== A list of Historic and Current towns of the Ortenau can be found at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de >. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Maurine, Two methods for your lady in order to join this List. The easiest is a message to either < [email protected] > or to < [email protected] >, depending on whether she would prefer List mail (each message individually) or Digest mail (approximately a day's worth of messages at a time). Only the word < subscribe > is necessary and I also am fairly certain that Rootsweb would accept her even if she skipped the subscribe word but for safety sake, use it. The other way would be to go to < http://www.rootsweb.com >, click on Mailing Lists, at the next page, click on Germany, with the click on the next page being < DEU-BAD-ORTENAU >, scrolling down that opening page and clicking on the subscribe function. And, if she knows if any of her Jaeger family went through Cleveland, I want to talk to her. I still at a complete loss for the origin of that grandfather of my mother-in-law. Jaeger from Ichenheim or Jaeger from Orschweier or Jaeger from one of a hundred other towns...I think I'll change his name Johann Doe and merely state that he was in some Germanic Witness Protection Program. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurine LeBlanc" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:28 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Another Subscriber > DJ, > > I was just contacted by a lady who is researching the Jäger surname from > Ichenheim. I have suggested that she join the Baden Mailing List. At this > point I am not quite sure what address to give her. Would you kindly tell > me if the email address that I am sending this message to is the correct > one to give out? I told her in my message that this group is extremely > helpful and wonderful. > > My best - Maurine >

Can anyone tell me where "Heiligenzell" was located. A distant ancestor was born in that village in 1748. (Of course, the spelling of that town may be corrupt and totally erroneous!). Dick Fischbach Arvada, Colorado USA

Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:04:06 -0600 From: "John Engel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: {not a subscriber} RE: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim Hi Claire, There are no main family entries under the name Gengenbacher, but the all-name index shows four entries. I also find a place in the location index: Gengenbach/Kinzigtal Kr. Offenburg. For Ill, I found no entry. However, I did find Jll (five pages of entries) and Jehl (two pages of entries, which also note the following as variations: Jel, Jell, Jele, Jelin, Jehlin). The earliest entry is Mathias Jll was married to Maria Sabine Sigele on 25.1.1723 (7 children listed). For Siegele (Sigele, Sigelin), there are 4 1/2 pages of entries. Among them are Franz Karl Sigele, married to Franziska Jll on 9.1.1815 (10 children listed). In the Oberweier book there are 5 entries for Jehle, and a page of entries for Siegelin (Sigelin, Sigele) Let me know what names you need. John -----Original Message----- From: Claire Spinelli [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim On another list, I was told by Wendelin that someone on this list has the Ortssippenbuch Friesenheim. I have church records of ancestors from both Friesenheim and Heiligenzell, so I'm actually not sure which town they lived in. The LDS has the Friesenheim book, but not on microfilm. They do not have the Heiligenzell book, if one does exist. If at all possible, I would very much appreciate knowing if the names: Gengenbacher, Siegele, and Ill are recorded. Thank you! Claire