Is there a map or a series of maps that can tell me whether a town was in Wuerttemberg or Baden during the period of 1800-1880? Thanks Chuck Schober ----Melissa, Texas

If you want to take a short cut directly to the work page and skip the click, click, click from the home page..... use < http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/ >. Remember, that this is a LIMITED INFORMATION site for now. The site is growing slowing starting with certain Family books from one section of the LDS files. These Family books may be well-published, well-known books available at most any genealogical library. These Family books may be privatedly-printed family books where the total number of prints were a copy for the author to keep, a couple for his relatives and a couple as gifts to accepting libraries. These Family books may be manuscripts of never-printed genealogies. The original may have been a print copy, may have been a Xerox-type copy, may have been a typed copy, may have been an old carbon copy, may have been an old Gestetner-type mimeograph machine copy. The books have been digitized by Optical Character Recognition (OCR); in addition to having only a small start available on-line, the text in those available books is only as correct as the research abilities of the original author and some of the text may be difficult to read from the OCR copy. Use the short cut to the search web page < http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/ >, do your searching by the available search offers but don't expect to find a miracle today. Maybe next week, next month or next year but probably not today. djweber [email protected]

Yes, Please do.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurine LeBlanc" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [Ortenau] LDS Site > DJ, > > Today I received a email from the German Surname List announcing the > Mormon Church is digitizing books on line. It is quite a bit of > information and directions. Would you like me to forward it on to our > mailing list? > > Best - Maurine > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for > neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from > your searched town. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 10:03 AM Subject: [Ger-Sur] Re: LDS Digitizing Books, on-line NOW at BYU !!! > > In a message dated 11/8/2005 8:16:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > Subject: LDS Digitizing Books, on-line NOW at BYU !!! > > > > > >> A dream coming true. The Family History Library is starting to > > digitize > >> their book holdings, mostly family histories to date, and they > > are putting them > >> on-line, fully search able by any word or advanced search > > combinations. > >> Five thousand plus of these books are on the Brigham Young > > University > >> Library servers and readily accessible, NOW! > >> Here is a partial clip of an announcement I just received and > > I have only > >> made a quick check of how to find them and how to search, but > > it is very > >> exciting > >> "The LDS Family History Library has announced that it has > > begun the process > >> of digitizing and making available on the Internet all of the > > Family History > >> books in their collection. These are primarily books in the > > "929.273Series" > >> that are currently housed on the first floor of the Family > > History Library > >> (previously housed on the fourth floor of the Joseph Smith > > Memorial Building). > >> At the present time (September 2005), about 5000 books have > > been digitized > >> and are available, and they have announced that they are > > adding about 100 > >> titles a week to the on-line collection. Copyright issues are > > playing a role in > >> determining the order in which they progress through this > > task; books out of > >> copyright are being done first." > >> Go to the web site of the Harold B. Lee Library at BYU > >> at http://www.lib.byu.edu/ , then on the home page, follow the > > links:Find Other Materials; > >> Electronic; On Line Collections at BYU; Text Collections tab; > > Family History Archive > >> from the list of collections that are displayed. The search box > > on the left > >> seems to be he one to find your books at and the search box on > > the right is > >> for searching within the pages on screen. > > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== > Please never answer off topic messages, just ignore it or contact if > necessary the List administrator at: [email protected] > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Maurine, The after-thought here is that the digitization of books may be the first step into the digitization of what so far has been on film. There also have been tales going around about the eventual processing of what has been the LDS filmed Church Registers into a digitized format. I understand that even now it takes only six minutes to transfer a normal length roll of microfilm into a digital base. I have read that the LDS is no longer using microfilming equipment in its copying of Church Registers. To be exact, microfilm, soon, will be the new horse and buggy of information. Twenty years ago, it was simple to purchase many items of genealogical value on microfiche; no longer. Today, microfilm may be heading in the same direction. Recently, one of the larger companies which handled (I believe it was that Michigan outfit which had been affliated with the University of Michigan originally) thousands of microfilmed items was discontinuing its major operations. Use the Brigham Young University site with its digitized books as your new step to what may be a wonderful future. djweber [email protected]

Thank you for all the insight. My great grandfather(Christian Henzler) was the only one from his family to emigrate, and I often wondered why he did. Now I have a pretty good idea. One of my great grandfathers (Christian's father - in - law) emigrated in 1849 from Baden, but he was older (27 at the time) and his parents and two of his brothers emigrated at the same time. I assume that they emigrated because of economically reasons. They were farmers in in the U.S. They might have emigrated because of the Revolution of 1849, they left Germany in the spring of 1849 I am sure that they left legally, because I have a copy of the "contract ticket" they used to come to the US and it was issued in Mannhiem. Again thank you for all the information. I only recently started my research on the German side of my family and I an finding it very interesting. Barbara

Maurine, Certainly, you may pass the information on to the List. The only addition might be a preface warning that the BYU site is still new, little is available and the site will take a little bit of time to get used to. The information that the university was to handle the Family History Library in a start to digitize book holdings has been floating around on the Internet for some time. Last July, a contact sent me the < http://immigrants.byu.edu/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=4&tabid=4 > site as a link off of < http://www.byu.ed > at Brigham Young University. Finally a week or so ago, the full details available at < http://www.lib.byu.edu/ > started its rounds on various Lists. I've looked at it, I've played with it and I sent the information to an e-mail friend who spends more time on-line. The result from that contact was that you could get into the site, you could do some checking, there was a search "button" but little was available as yet and what was available then was not as potent information as we might want. See, I'm lazy....I let someone else figure out the site for me. I think it will be a great site, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow and maybe not for some months but everyone should know about the potential; maybe even Ortssippenbuch and Familienbuch which are out of date will become available on-line.....but again put a warning with your message that little should be expected immediately. djweber [email protected] Maurine, I just saw your second message. A forwarding is fine. Copy and Paste is usually little more, depending on your program, than the high-lighting of what you want to copy, up to Edit, click on copy, set up your other page, go to a spot where you want to drop the information, click on paste. ------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurine LeBlanc" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 2:17 PM Subject: [Ortenau] LDS Site > DJ, > > Today I received a email from the German Surname List announcing the > Mormon Church is digitizing books on line. It is quite a bit of > information and directions. Would you like me to forward it on to our > mailing list? > > Best - Maurine >

Hi Maurine, I would like to read this email. Thanks. Best Regards, Nick Gombash Maurine LeBlanc <[email protected]> wrote: DJ, Today I received a email from the German Surname List announcing the Mormon Church is digitizing books on line. It is quite a bit of information and directions. Would you like me to forward it on to our mailing list? Best - Maurine ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from your searched town. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

DJ, Today I received a email from the German Surname List announcing the Mormon Church is digitizing books on line. It is quite a bit of information and directions. Would you like me to forward it on to our mailing list? Best - Maurine

Barbara, Not exactly an after-thought as I tried to do some digging in old notes. Where exactly the notes originated, I do not remember, maybe an old history text-book, maybe a web site, just maybe. And I still have no strong ideas for a pre-1866 emigration reason but thinking of the Franco-German War as perhaps a example of the times, I found that for Field Artillery alone, Wuerttemberg supplied four batteries with 900 men and Baden supplied 9 batteries with 900 men to that war. Beyond Field Artillery, there would have been Cavalry and soldiers afoot. Men from Wuerttemberg would be utilized in Germanic warfare as he grew older and he probably realized that. As the French and Germanic troubles had been brewing for some years with the French wanting all territory to the Rhine as its boundary from the German states perhaps two wars in your ancestor's youth and the probably-expected war were enough to persuade him to emigrate. As it were the wanted border turned out to only a secondary cause of the Franco-German war although a bit of conniving by Germans Bismarck and von Moltke and the French Olliivier helped it along even after the Prince Leopold renounced his interest in the Spanish throne. Your ancestor left and left war worries behind him. djweber [email protected]

Barbara, As to Wuerttemberg of the mid-1860s, I hope one of the native Germans on the List will give you a better answer than I might suggest. In the years before the formation of the 1871 German Empire, the lesser Germanic countries allied themselves or perhaps were forced to ally themselves with either of the large Germanic states, Prussia or Austria, in any war. For that period of time when your ancestor perhaps was realizing what might happen to his future.... in 1864 there was a German-Danish War (in this instance Austria and Prussia were on the same side) in 1866 there was a German-Austrian War, a seven-weeks war and while Denmark with the Schleswig-Holstein area as the prime area under contention, the results from the Peace of Nicolsburg estalished the North German Confederation and allowed the annexation of various northern Germanic states by Prussia and for the future of course the 1870 Franco-German War (in error, referred to in American histories as the Franco-Prussian War) which was a result of a Spanish succession problem included troops from many of the Germanic countries. My memory may be fuzzy here and perhaps I have the wrong war but I believe one of the major battles of the Franco-German War was won for the Germans by Bavarian troops under Bavarian officers. Certainly, your ancestor understood his military future and he probably realized that while wars take place for various, including unknown, reasons that the only losers are the foot-soldiers on both sides. Armies were for hire for many years in Europe. We have all read that Germans fought with the English in the American War of the Revolution. Germans also fought with the French for the American colonies in the same war. During the years of Napoleon, Baden had troops which fought with Napoleon's troops in Russia; later Baden was a direct opponent of Napoleon. Who knows what Christian Adalf Henzler thought might be his future; was a strange world on the other side of an ocean better for him? djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Bower" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:47 AM Subject: [Ortenau] Re: Emigration >I have found the messages about emigration very interesting. I am >beginning to believe that my great grandfather, Christian Adalf Henzler >who emigrated from Nurtingen Wurtemberg in 1866 did so to avoid being >drafted (he was 20 years old and he left through France) . I am assuming if >he did emigrate to avoid the draft that he did it illegally. I am right it >that conclusion? > > Barbara Bower > >

I have found the messages about emigration very interesting. I am beginning to believe that my great grandfather, Christian Adalf Henzler who emigrated from Nurtingen Wurtemberg in 1866 did so to avoid being drafted (he was 20 years old and he left through France) . I am assuming if he did emigrate to avoid the draft that he did it illegally. I am right it that conclusion? Barbara Bower

I am writing to the list to see if anyone possibly has access to or has the family book for Kürzell. Seems my Fäßler, Jäger and Derendinger families moved on to Kürzell at one time. Best wishes - Maurine

Dick, once I researched some emigration files from Niederschopfheim. I believe the emigration request of your ancestors is part of a thick file which contains the request of some emigrants. This file is not sorted and I believe it contains at least 2 different parts for your ancestors. A brother of one of my ancestors received the permission to emigrate but after he sold his property he had not enough money to pay the tickets for his whole family. So he decided to emigrate with one son secretly. After some years they send the money to pay the tickets for the other children. - Wendelin On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:21:14 -0700 "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> wrote: > DJ, > > In the recent exchange of messages re emigration database, reference > was made to 'legal' and 'illegal' emigration - some law or code > apparently required 'permission' to emigrate. Permission from whom? > Why did they need permission? Was it expensive to get permission? > Was the regulation enforced and, if so, by whom? > > I'm confident that many listers have answers to these questions; > regretfully, I do not - but I sure would like to learn more about this > matter. > > Dick

Danke DJ erklärst Du super! Hallo Tony, hallo Dick Ich versuche das jetzt gar nicht in Englisch. Bin da einfach nicht mehr fit genug. meine Vorfahren sind in die USA ausgewandert weil sie badische Revolutionäre waren. (Philipp, Sigmund, Anton Rendler) ich habe zuhause die Raab-Datei. In dieser sind etwa 5000 Revolutionäre aufgelistet. Ich kann gerne nach Namen schauen. Viele sind damals nach Amerika "abgehauen" um einer Gefängnisstrafe zu entgehen - oder nach der Gefängnisstrafe (wie mein Sigmund) weil sie mit diesem Land nichts mehr zu tun haben wollten. Ich habe bei dem emigrations-projekt in Offenburg mitgeholfen, wir haben versucht "Alle" Auswanderer zu finden, also nicht nur die offiziellen. Ich habe in Auswanderungsakten tatsächlich auch den Fall gehabt dass Auswanderungswillige NICHT gehen durften, weil sie der GEmeinde dienlich waren, weil sie notwendig waren und nicht so leicht zu ersetzen waren wenn sie gegangen sind. Gefunden haben wir illegale Auswanderer vor allem über die Suche in den Kirchenbüchern. Die Pfarrer haben oft hinter die Namen einen Vermerk angebracht. "Ausgewandert nach Amerika". Oder aber in Bürgerbüchern etc. Wer auswandern wollte, der wurde in der Zeitung veröffentlicht, zur "Schuldenliquidation" . So hatten alle die Möglichkeit evtl Ansprüche anzumelden. Ein Team von uns hat die Zeitungen "durchgearbeitet" und die Namen notiert. Obwohl diese Leute ja wohl einen "Antrag" gestellt hatten, war er nicht im Archiv aufbewahrt worden. D.h. es sind auch nicht alle die "mit" Erlaubnis gegangen sind, archiviert worden. auf der Seite www.emigration-offenburg.de sind die Auswanderer drin, die "wir" damals gefunden haben. - Nur die Offenburger eben ( mit den Ortschaften drumherum) auf der LAD-Seite um die es hier auch schon ging, sind meines Wissens nur diejenigen Auswanderer über die es eine Akte in den Archiven gibt. Liebe Grüsse Gabi ----- Original Message ----- From: "djweber" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Emigration > Dick, > > Gabi's information has many key ingredients for you to explain how and why > certain emigrations took place. You probably have to understand Baden of > the time period of your ancestor's emigration. Crops and crop failures, > famine, economics, pre-revolution, revolution, post-revolution, taxation, > war reparations and a bunch of other reasons. > > My own emigrant Badische ancestor was sent to America with his family and > the Town paid the costs. His Mill had burned to the ground and > financially > his family was desperate. However, he was not alone as the Town sent a > number of families at the same time. This was done by many towns in the > 1850s. Families were shipped to America, to Australia and to Africa. > > Baden was a hot-bed of the 1848/49 Revolution. Many of the > revolutionaries > were imprisoned at Rastatt. The Baden area was taxed heavily to pay for > the > Prussian aid used in crushing the revolution. For an idea of Baden of > this > time period perhaps < http://www.cats.ohiou.edu/~Chastain/ac/baden.htm > > or > < http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/volume10/ > might be of > interest. > > To emigrate normally required permission. A person would need to prove > that > he could afford to emigrate. He must be of sufficient age and not of > specific or needed value to the town. He must not shirk his military > duties. There were many requirements which if the individual could not > pass, he probably would have disappeared in the middle of the night and > emigrated illegally. > > None of this is your answer but maybe added to Gabi's information we may > be > leading up to some thoughts for you. > > An ancestor of my daughter-in-law, with that ancestor not from the Ortenau > but from an area in northern Baden and from a later time period than > shortly > after the Revolution attempt, was recorded (as below) in his Town's > records > when he applied to emigrate.....the report as translated into English: > "Report of municipal council of Oberschefflenz. > "As to the request of the farmer Gottlieb Kühner for getting a passport to > emigrate for America. > "The citizen and farmer Gottlieb Kühner from here, 36 years old, married > and > father of 8 children, protestantic, asks for a passport to emigrate with > his > family for America. > "The wife Christina Kühner, née Walter, Luise Kühner 13 years, Lina Kühner > 12, Emma Kühner 10, Adolfine Christina Kühner, Frieda Kühner 6, Karl > Friedrich Kühner 4 1/2, Gottlieb Kühner 2, and Alice Kühner 7 months. > "The petitioner has own money enough to emigrate, needed never aid, it is > no > manpower shortage and no loss assets. > "Because the petitioner has a good reputation, the municipal council has > no > reservations to give him the passport for him and his family. > "The petitioner says that he owns 12000 hfl to export to America." > "Decision: > "1. Giving permission > "2. Entry in the list of emigrates > "3. Message to the Municipal Council > "4. Issue the passport for 6 months > "5. Entry Nr. 75" > -------------------------------------- > Dick, Good reasons to leave town (and not a country-western song), > born of parents who were not married > little chance of any inheritance > too many siblings and too little a farming area > escape military service > escape punishment from revolutionary action > impoverished > looking for a better life > > and everyone on this List could give you more and better reasons than I > can. > > Think of the idea that our ancestors were descended from Serfs held in > Fiefdom to someone in a higher position in life and our ancestors dreamed > of > America as Utopia, a panacea compared to their daily troubles. If they > could afford and could pass the requirements, they emigrated legally > completing all the requirements. If they could not afford and felt they > could not pass all the requirements, they slipped off into their trip to > the > world across the ocean. > > djweber > [email protected] > ------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:21 PM > Subject: [Ortenau] Emigration > > >> DJ, >> >> In the recent exchange of messages re emigration database, reference was >> made to 'legal' and 'illegal' emigration - some law or code apparently >> required 'permission' to emigrate. Permission from whom? Why did they >> need permission? Was it expensive to get permission? Was the regulation >> enforced and, if so, by whom? >> >> I'm confident that many listers have answers to these questions; >> regretfully, I do not - but I sure would like to learn more about this >> matter. >> >> Dick >> > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > can be searched for > neighboring towns if you fear that one of your ancestors moved to or from > your searched town. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de

Oh Dick I think my english is not good enough to tell you about this things..but I try to do. Yes. The people needed a permission to emigrate. A permission from the "state". They only get the permission when they had no money to give to other people..so their names had to stand in newspapers because of that. But I saw emigration-papers from people that have been rich. And they did not get the permission because of that the state was saying, that this are people, needed in Baden. It was a poor time, and the very very poor did become the permission. They did get money from State, when they did go, but they had no more chance to come back to Germany. It was not allowed for them. And then was the time after the 48/49 revolution. The revolutioners did go without permission, because they came into prison in Baden. I could write this better for you in German.. maybe there is somebody who is able to translate ist? I know a lot about this things. But I think, there are many others in this list, that know this all, too. Liebe Grüsse Gabi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:21 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Emigration > DJ, > > In the recent exchange of messages re emigration database, reference was > made to 'legal' and 'illegal' emigration - some law or code apparently > required 'permission' to emigrate. Permission from whom? Why did they > need permission? Was it expensive to get permission? Was the regulation > enforced and, if so, by whom? > > I'm confident that many listers have answers to these questions; > regretfully, I do not - but I sure would like to learn more about this > matter. > > Dick > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > If you are new to this Ortenau List, please check the Archives to see if > any messages have been posted about your surname or your town. > < http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/DEU-BAD-ORTENAU.html >. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de

Dick, Gabi's information has many key ingredients for you to explain how and why certain emigrations took place. You probably have to understand Baden of the time period of your ancestor's emigration. Crops and crop failures, famine, economics, pre-revolution, revolution, post-revolution, taxation, war reparations and a bunch of other reasons. My own emigrant Badische ancestor was sent to America with his family and the Town paid the costs. His Mill had burned to the ground and financially his family was desperate. However, he was not alone as the Town sent a number of families at the same time. This was done by many towns in the 1850s. Families were shipped to America, to Australia and to Africa. Baden was a hot-bed of the 1848/49 Revolution. Many of the revolutionaries were imprisoned at Rastatt. The Baden area was taxed heavily to pay for the Prussian aid used in crushing the revolution. For an idea of Baden of this time period perhaps < http://www.cats.ohiou.edu/~Chastain/ac/baden.htm > or < http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/volume10/ > might be of interest. To emigrate normally required permission. A person would need to prove that he could afford to emigrate. He must be of sufficient age and not of specific or needed value to the town. He must not shirk his military duties. There were many requirements which if the individual could not pass, he probably would have disappeared in the middle of the night and emigrated illegally. None of this is your answer but maybe added to Gabi's information we may be leading up to some thoughts for you. An ancestor of my daughter-in-law, with that ancestor not from the Ortenau but from an area in northern Baden and from a later time period than shortly after the Revolution attempt, was recorded (as below) in his Town's records when he applied to emigrate.....the report as translated into English: "Report of municipal council of Oberschefflenz. "As to the request of the farmer Gottlieb Kühner for getting a passport to emigrate for America. "The citizen and farmer Gottlieb Kühner from here, 36 years old, married and father of 8 children, protestantic, asks for a passport to emigrate with his family for America. "The wife Christina Kühner, née Walter, Luise Kühner 13 years, Lina Kühner 12, Emma Kühner 10, Adolfine Christina Kühner, Frieda Kühner 6, Karl Friedrich Kühner 4 1/2, Gottlieb Kühner 2, and Alice Kühner 7 months. "The petitioner has own money enough to emigrate, needed never aid, it is no manpower shortage and no loss assets. "Because the petitioner has a good reputation, the municipal council has no reservations to give him the passport for him and his family. "The petitioner says that he owns 12000 hfl to export to America." "Decision: "1. Giving permission "2. Entry in the list of emigrates "3. Message to the Municipal Council "4. Issue the passport for 6 months "5. Entry Nr. 75" -------------------------------------- Dick, Good reasons to leave town (and not a country-western song), born of parents who were not married little chance of any inheritance too many siblings and too little a farming area escape military service escape punishment from revolutionary action impoverished looking for a better life and everyone on this List could give you more and better reasons than I can. Think of the idea that our ancestors were descended from Serfs held in Fiefdom to someone in a higher position in life and our ancestors dreamed of America as Utopia, a panacea compared to their daily troubles. If they could afford and could pass the requirements, they emigrated legally completing all the requirements. If they could not afford and felt they could not pass all the requirements, they slipped off into their trip to the world across the ocean. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:21 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Emigration > DJ, > > In the recent exchange of messages re emigration database, reference was > made to 'legal' and 'illegal' emigration - some law or code apparently > required 'permission' to emigrate. Permission from whom? Why did they > need permission? Was it expensive to get permission? Was the regulation > enforced and, if so, by whom? > > I'm confident that many listers have answers to these questions; > regretfully, I do not - but I sure would like to learn more about this > matter. > > Dick >

DJ and Gabi, Thank so very much for the emigration information. It was very informative! My great-grandfather, Michael Spahnle and his brother Joseph, fled Germany during the 1850's. According to the family story passed down, they deserted the army because of the horrific living conditions. Michael also lived in fear of the Germans coming to get him. It is really sad that more people do not subscribe to your mailing list. From people like you I have learned a lot. Thank you. Maurine

DJ, In the recent exchange of messages re emigration database, reference was made to 'legal' and 'illegal' emigration - some law or code apparently required 'permission' to emigrate. Permission from whom? Why did they need permission? Was it expensive to get permission? Was the regulation enforced and, if so, by whom? I'm confident that many listers have answers to these questions; regretfully, I do not - but I sure would like to learn more about this matter. Dick

dj, in the database there should be at least the people who emigrated with permission and whose emigration document is still available in a state archive. I was pretty satisfied with the old database. I only missed the source information like file number. And with help of the old one I was able to find out that emigration docs of ancestors and relatives exist. Did you (or another member) miss someone in the old database whose emigration record is available? - Wendelin > Wendelin, > > I hope that the Auswanderer database, for now, is merely stuck in a > growing pains situation. I have hesitated to make any comment about > it even though it seemed to be lacking but I hoped that it meant that > the old database was being entered into the new database in a > piecemeal basis and just wasn't finished as yet. > > Whatever is happening, the new database is not complete, nor is it > correct. > > My playing around with it was a result of that missing Johann Jaeger. > In August there were 38 Johann Jäger listings; in October there were > only 10 listings for the same time period. > > For now the database is not trustworthy. I feel it will be necessary > to research it from time to time on just that one missing Johann Jäger > to see what changes may result. Your information of changed towns > makes it even more scary. > > However, this may be no different that previous searches. The > original database was never complete but was an on-going project, > albeit, a very slow on-going project. Many emigrants who were in > Karlsruhe and Stuttgart records had not been entered in the old > database. Now, who knows what the situation is. > > djweber > [email protected]