Where would I look for information on a couple divorced in Lahr, Baden, 1800-1835? They were of the Lutheran faith. Thanks Chuck Schober ----Melissa, Texas

Maurine, About your Sack family letters...unless you have given some controlling right to the Nebraska Historical Society, why don't you sort them into an order and put them on-line for anyone to read. I don't know if Wendelin's "Userpages" link from the Companion Page at < http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de/search/ > has space or is a proper place for such information but why don't you check with Wendelin to see if they could be put into that link through an OCR application. ---------- And adding on to Gabi's URL identification, another web site at < http://members.aol.com/sycophant4/bohn1843.htm#70 > offers some details of a trip from Hannover to America in 1843. I know I have seen several other such emigration trips detailed on-line. I'll try to dig to see if I can find them again. ---------- For your kindness in trying to help with my Jäger problem, I felt I should tell you that all my past ideas are now "dead" but I have ordered the LDS filmed Familienbuch for Welschensteinach. A complex set of search steps has taken me through a new trail into another possible town. Probably another dead-end; I'll know within the next month. djweber [email protected]

Hello Dick, a possible motive to emigrate in the 1830s was the end of the serfdom and of compulsory labor and tithe. The abolition of the serfdom (and of compulsory labor) was in the older parts of Baden in 1783 in the newer in 1820 and 1825. Former serfs had to pay factor 18 of the former annual tributes to the former master. The abolition of the tithe was in 1833. Former payer of tithe had to pay factor 20 of the former annual tithe. I know the Fischbachs owned some fields and vineyards in Niederschopfheim. - Wendelin

http://www.hdbg.de/auswanderung/deutsch/index2.htm I think this is an interesting link to find out more about the motivations - its from bavaria - but I think its nearly same. liebe grüsse Gabi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Fischbach" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:16 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Motivation? > I've often wondered what motivated my ancestors to emigrate from Baden to > America. Picking up stakes and moving to another country halfway around > the world was a grim decision, not taken lightly -- to leave relatives and > life-long friends, never to be seen again in this life, would have caused > a cascade of emotions in the bosoms of the émigrés. But these feelings > would have been countered by their desire for a better life. > > Recently I came across a book ("The Americans" by J.C. Furnas) in which > the author quoted a letter written by an Irish immigrant in 1725 to his > sister in Ireland. Despite the fact that the letter was written by a > Pennsylvania-dwelling Irishman to his sister, it could easily have been > penned by a German writing to friends/relatives in Baden. > > (Pennsylvania) "is the best country for working folk & tradesman in the > world ... There is ... 2 markets weekly in Philadelphia, also 2 fairs > yearly in Chester & likewise in new castle ... here all young men and > women that wants wives or husbands may be Supplyed ... Unkle James Lindly > & Family is well & Thrives Exceedingly he has 11 children & Reaped last > harvest about 800 bushels of wheat, he is a thriving man ... has a > thousand acres of land. A fine Estate. Clothes, shoes and so on are > costly in Irish terms ... & yet a man will Sooner Earn a suit of Cloths > here than in Ireland, by Reason workman's Labor is so Dear." > > Although the writer wrote specifically about Pennsylvania, it was a > typical missive about colonial life in general and would have been seen as > an invitation to anyone considering emigration. As J.C. Furnas wrote, > letters like that "had much to do with keeping transatlantic immigration > flowing." > > Any citations or contributions dealing with our ancestor's motivation in > emigrating to America will be gratefully received -- I'm still trying to > gain an insight into some of the factors [other than a natural desire to > enjoy the good life] that prompted the most important step of their life. > > Dick Fischbach > Arvada, CO USA > > > > ==== DEU-BAD-ORTENAU Mailing List ==== > < http://www.stadtplandienst.de/ > offers detailed on-line maps of the > town of your ancestor. From the map of Offenburg, by moving and resizing, > the streets of your ancestor's home town can be found. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de

Jim, One of the descendants of my Sack family (from Röglitz, Germany) found in his aunt's desk letters that had been written to and from "papa" in Germany. He took the letters and had them translated into English and then sent copies to different relatives. I have copies of these letters and they are fantastic. The Historical Society of Nebraska asked to see the original letters to verify the information. Upon their researching here and Germany the letters were verified. The reason the society wanted to verify the letters is because Franz Sack (a mason in Germany) helped to build the capitol building in Lincoln. The reason for this explanation is because Franz writes to papa about his voyage to America, learning English before arriving here, and all the toil and effort it took to reach Nebraska. After settling into his job doing masonry he writes home to tell his brothers about the free land that is available. Franz encourages his brothers to partake of the 80 acres that has only the stipulation a house is built and the land farmed. The letters do not offer a reason for coming to America as the Sack family were educated and of means. Perhaps it was the adventure of going to a new land. By the way, two other brothers and a sister (my great-grandmother) did follow suit and came to Nebraska. I would be most glad to share these letters to anyone who might be interested. Maurine

Hello Lois, I assume the same like dj: maybe she lived in a nearby town. It seems there are still Leonhardts in Rottenburg. And yes: only 1 Rottenburg in Württemberg: at the river Neckar. Rottenburg was prior (before 1806) part of the county Hohenberg which belonged to Austria. My ancestors lived in the same county so I researched a little bit the available sources. A printed book of the "Oberamt Rottenburg" lists some records from 1753 till 1805 (the older ones were destroyed by archivists). Other sources from Rottenburg which are not printed: lists of citizen, house and family sheets from 1786... (a census). Please let me know if you ever see the surname Irslinger (or alike) in a parish register. - Wendelin On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:39:41 -0500 "Lois Kamlage" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > I just want to make sure I am researching the right Rottenburg. Is > there more than 1 Rottenburg in Wurttemberg. My ancestor Sybilla > Leonhardt listed this as her place of birth in her marriage record. I > have searched some church records in Rottenburg and have found no > sign of her. I even searched some civil files. I know that there is > more than one Rottenburg but is there only one in Wurttemburg? Thanks > for any help? Lois >

Thanks to all who answered my query. I thought too that she might have been from a nearby town, but which one? I found 15 nearby towns. I also know that Sybilla might not be her 1st given name but have no clue as to what other name she might have. I have made contact with a William Meier who is also searching Rottenburg records and he found some Leonhards, but no Sybilla. Thanks Wendelin for the info. If I come across any Irslingers in my search, I will let you know. Thanks Klaus for letting me know that there are still Leonhards in Rottenburg. A belated thanks to you DJ for helping me get a query to the list. At least I now know that there is only one Rottenburg in Wuerttemburg. If any one runs across any info on Leonhards in the Rottenburg area, I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks to all again. Lois

Lois, It would still be a needle in a haystack if your ancestor is from a neighboring town but two of those web sites will give you neighboring towns and one of those town names might be a key for you. From < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > after you have located your town in Baden-Wuerttemberg, click on the "Nearest Neighbours" block. This will give you the nearest neighboring towns in all directions. At < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm > after you pick out your correct town, click on the dot to the right of the line for that town. This will give you more towns in total as the distance allowed here is a higher figure. Not that I want to search in every town but the town names may be handy to know in case while you have been searching Sybilla at Rottenburg, some strange town name might have appeared and it was not known that it was a town. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Kamlage" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Leonhardts in Rottenburg > Thanks to all who answered my query. I thought too that she might have > been from a nearby town, but which one? I found 15 nearby towns. I also > know that Sybilla might not be her 1st given name but have no clue as to > what other name she might have. I have made contact with a William Meier > who is also searching Rottenburg records and he found some Leonhards, but > no Sybilla. Thanks Wendelin for the info. If I come across any Irslingers > in my search, I will let you know. Thanks Klaus for letting me know that > there are still Leonhards in Rottenburg. A belated thanks to you DJ for > helping me get a query to the list. At least I now know that there is only > one Rottenburg in Wuerttemburg. If any one runs across any info on > Leonhards in the Rottenburg area, I would appreciate hearing from you. > Thanks to all again. Lois >

I've often wondered what motivated my ancestors to emigrate from Baden to America. Picking up stakes and moving to another country halfway around the world was a grim decision, not taken lightly -- to leave relatives and life-long friends, never to be seen again in this life, would have caused a cascade of emotions in the bosoms of the émigrés. But these feelings would have been countered by their desire for a better life. Recently I came across a book ("The Americans" by J.C. Furnas) in which the author quoted a letter written by an Irish immigrant in 1725 to his sister in Ireland. Despite the fact that the letter was written by a Pennsylvania-dwelling Irishman to his sister, it could easily have been penned by a German writing to friends/relatives in Baden. (Pennsylvania) "is the best country for working folk & tradesman in the world ... There is ... 2 markets weekly in Philadelphia, also 2 fairs yearly in Chester & likewise in new castle ... here all young men and women that wants wives or husbands may be Supplyed ... Unkle James Lindly & Family is well & Thrives Exceedingly he has 11 children & Reaped last harvest about 800 bushels of wheat, he is a thriving man ... has a thousand acres of land. A fine Estate. Clothes, shoes and so on are costly in Irish terms ... & yet a man will Sooner Earn a suit of Cloths here than in Ireland, by Reason workman's Labor is so Dear." Although the writer wrote specifically about Pennsylvania, it was a typical missive about colonial life in general and would have been seen as an invitation to anyone considering emigration. As J.C. Furnas wrote, letters like that "had much to do with keeping transatlantic immigration flowing." Any citations or contributions dealing with our ancestor's motivation in emigrating to America will be gratefully received -- I'm still trying to gain an insight into some of the factors [other than a natural desire to enjoy the good life] that prompted the most important step of their life. Dick Fischbach Arvada, CO USA

Lois, Only a quick andnot a proper answer as I am reading my mail through my son's computer; my computer is an annoyance right now as I have a mouse which does what it wants to do, a mouse which must be replaced as a mouse over which I have no control. As to Rottenburg, I am not smart enough to give you a proper answer from memory but using < http://tomcat-dmaweb1.jrc.it/fuzzyg/query/ > which Beverly identified last month, unchecking the All Countries and the All Features and dragging down Germany and Populated Place, it gives you only one town in the Federal State of Baden-Wuerttemberg, a number of other locations but some very similar town names in B-W. At < http://www.heavens-above.com/countries.asp > it identifies only one Rottenburg in B-W. I did not search the < http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm > site as it is more difficult to identify the Federal State as attached to the town at that URL. The possible answer is that your ancestor, if not found in the Rottenburg records, was most likely from a close-by town and her identification of Rottenburg meant of the area rather than of the specific town. Unfortunately this happens too often for any large town. In the B-W area, you often see a search for someone born in Baden-Baden (at a time when no Baden-Baden existed) or from Stuttgart but correctly from some town 10 to 20 kilometers away. In one of my own searches the family records said Danzig but they were from towns in the Danzig lands and not the Danzig town. Have you found others of same surname in the town at the same era? Is is possible that Sybilla was baptized with another first name? Often Church Register information on an individual shows a different first name at baptism as compared to marriage or bearing children. While the surname is not an uncommon surname, looking for females in the approximate several years of birth may be the first try. And then there is the fear of a similar spelled town name. djweber [email protected] -------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Lois Kamlage <[email protected]> Sent: Nov 21, 2005 9:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Ortenau] Rottenburg in Wurttemburg Hello, I just want to make sure I am researching the right Rottenburg. Is there more than 1 Rottenburg in Wurttemberg. My ancestor Sybilla Leonhardt listed this as her place of birth in her marriage record. I have searched some church records in Rottenburg and have found no sign of her. I even searched some civil files. I know that there is more than one Rottenburg but is there only one in Wurttemburg? Thanks for any help? Lois

Hello, I just want to make sure I am researching the right Rottenburg. Is there more than 1 Rottenburg in Wurttemberg. My ancestor Sybilla Leonhardt listed this as her place of birth in her marriage record. I have searched some church records in Rottenburg and have found no sign of her. I even searched some civil files. I know that there is more than one Rottenburg but is there only one in Wurttemburg? Thanks for any help? Lois

Hello, a webpage for the Acher valley with Kappelrodeck, Waldulm, Ottenhöfen, Seebach: http://www.achertal.com/ A photoalbum with many pictures is available at: http://www.achertal.com/4images/ - Wendelin

Hello, I made few updates on our webpage (ich habe einige Updates auf der Internetseite publiziert): http://ortenau.genealogy-bw.de ( resp. http://ortenau-history.de.vu or http://ortenau.tk ) especially some statistic information in former counties Lahr and Wolfach (speziell einige statistische Informationen in den früheren Kreisen Lahr und Wolfach) and list of literature. - Wendelin

What is a Bezirksfeldwebel (district sergeant)? I believe it had to do with a civil position, but not sure. Thanks Chuck Schober ----Melissa, Texas

No not difficult, just educational. Chuck Schober ----Melissa, Texas

Chuck, Not exactly an answer to your question but from one view, certainly an answer. How many languages have a letter which includes an umlaut? Am I being difficult? djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 12:25 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Surmane LOEHR (LÖHR) > Is LOEHR (LÖHR) a German surname? > > Thanks > > Chuck Schober

Is LOEHR (LÖHR) a German surname? Thanks Chuck Schober ----Melissa, Texas

The following item is from the German news service (Deutsche Welle) and describes a Baden-Wurttemberg winery that has produced wines for 750 years. http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1774447,00.html?maca=en-bulletin-433-html Dick Fischbach Arvada, CO USA

Chuck, And this time I will watch my fingers as they type your name. I know what my mind tells them to do but those fingers have a way of doing their own thing when I type. Again, there are a number of native Germans on this List who could confirm "country" location for you of a specific Baden or Wuerttemberg town....should you feel, at a later time, that you need that confirmation. As you had asked only about country and I attempted to answer as only about country, I should add one qualification for you when it comes to the LDS listing for any town. Do NOT accept the Kreis, the Amt, the BA, any of those middle-identifications as valid for your search. They existed for your town(s) at one specific time in history while your town(s) of search existed for centuries. The Kreis, the Amt, the BA, the whatever listed by the LDS for any of your searched for towns would NOT have been correct for 1650, for 1750, for 1850 and probably not for 1950. That identification coincides with the year of the Meyer's identification and its use is one of the major errors in most personal genealogical databases. And, when you reach the years before Napoleon, there also could be major changes in "country" for any of your towns. While Wuerttemberg was fairly well formed in area, neither it nor Baden was a complete country, per se, and a true map ot the area would show a patch-work quilt of different "country" ownerships of land. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [Ortenau] Map for 1800-1880 > Thanks for the info. Since the time frames and dates you provided will > answer most of my questions. > > Thanks again > Chuck Schober > ----Melissa, Texas >

Chuch, The Grand Duchy of Baden was formed August 13, 1806 although its total land area was not complete until 1819. The Kingdom of Wuerttemberg was formed December 26, 1805 (some history books list slightly different dates). That should mean that after 1805/1806 the (almost complete) boundaries of the countries were in place to cover your question of towns from then to 1880. You did not mention your specific towns; that might have helped to give you an exact answer a bit sooner. While the LDS catalog listing of towns by area has been stated to be based on the 1912 Meyer Orts-und Verkehrs-Lexikon des Deutschen Reichs that 1912 listing of towns should be fairly close to exact, if not exact, for the location of each town for the century before that time. Of course, an idea of the history of the town from a German native who lives in the area could give you an answer or perhaps even the town's on-line home page might have a link to its history. There are other possibilities but the town names would be needed. djweber [email protected] ------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:00 PM Subject: [Ortenau] Map for 1800-1880 > Is there a map or a series of maps that can tell me whether a town was in > Wuerttemberg or Baden during the period of 1800-1880? > > Thanks > > Chuck Schober > ----Melissa, Texas