Many thanks for the replies, I felt the ' google' one slightly confusing I am looking at parish registers and have a few in latin so the first one is Jan  30       bpt       Thomas filius Johannis Heeneley vagi et Elizabethae uxoris suae(natus I hara Petri Maclesfield Armigeri ) 1635 then we have May 30    bpt       Johannes filius Gulielmi Norris utricularii vagi et Johannae uxoris suae ( natus in horreo Petri Macklesfield, Armigeri) 1636     Jun 29      bpt       Johanna filia Thome Bird peregrini et Gratiae uxoris suae ( nata in horreo Petri Macklesfield ) wish I had studied Latin Nobody ever climbed a mountain by saying   'I can't' ________________________________ From: John Frearson <johnphfrearson@btinternet.com> To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2012, 12:45 Subject: Re: [DBY] Latin translation help please Obviously a number of us are aware of Google translate! Dawn's suggested reordering seems a good start. > Would "Thomas, son of John HEENELEY, wanderer (traveller or vagrant) > and Elizabeth his wife (born in exile Peter of Macclesfield's squire) > 1635" make sense? Traveler seems more likely for someone with an inscription for his son's memorial [if that is what it is].  I like hara for exile - could then "I" be miss-transcribed from Latin "In" meaning "in". Thus "in exile" or overseas - thus probably not recorded in registers etc.  Also fits well with the travelling. Also, do we need the complexity of the Squire?  Peter Macclesfield Esquire as a possible father of Elizabeth seems sensible - early memorials often give the family of the mother/wife [especially if it was worth boasting about!!]  I would assume "Armigeri" was a word for bearing or having arms [as in coat of arms] and that would presumably be why the translation given is esquire. So this could be providing some useful family tree information. I wondered, where is the inscription? Best wishes John Frearson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 

Ann has given us some further entries and these help considerably as the other words start giving a context, especially when we consider what seems to be the genitive case of Peter, Petri. The other locations also give a flavour of what is being said. Using Google and some schoolboy recollections of Latin [I started learning it at 7 years and managed to pass Common Entrance Latin and then "O" level - at the third attempt aged 17 - I had to pass it to be able to apply for Oxford University!!!]. So suggestions: FOR - Jan 30 bpt Thomas filius Johannis Heeneley vagi et Elizabethae uxoris suae(natus I hara Petri Maclesfield Armigeri ) 1635 SUGGEST - "Thomas, son of John Heeneley, a vagrant, and Elizabeth, his wife (Born in the pigsty of Peter Maclesfield Esquire) 1635" FOR - May 30 bpt Johannes filius Gulielmi Norris utricularii vagi et Johannae uxoris suae ( natus in horreo Petri Macklesfield, Armigeri) SUGGEST - "May 30 - baptised John, son of William Norris itinerant bagpiper and Joan his wife (Born in the barn of Peter Macklesfield Esquire) " FOR - 1636 Jun 29 bpt Johanna filia Thome Bird peregrini et Gratiae uxoris suae ( nata in horreo Petri Macklesfield ) SUGGEST - "29 Aug 1636 - baptised Joan, daughter of Thomas Bird, pilgrim, and Grace, his wife (Born in the barn of Peter Macklesfield)" What fun - No guarentees that these are correct of course, I am now waiting for the Christmas day entries!! Best wishes John Frearson wish I had studied Latin Nobody ever climbed a mountain by saying 'I can't' ________________________________ From: John Frearson <johnphfrearson@btinternet.com> To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2012, 12:45 Subject: Re: [DBY] Latin translation help please Obviously a number of us are aware of Google translate! Dawn's suggested reordering seems a good start. > Would "Thomas, son of John HEENELEY, wanderer (traveller or vagrant) > and Elizabeth his wife (born in exile Peter of Macclesfield's squire) > 1635" make sense? Traveler seems more likely for someone with an inscription for his son's memorial [if that is what it is]. I like hara for exile - could then "I" be miss-transcribed from Latin "In" meaning "in". Thus "in exile" or overseas - thus probably not recorded in registers etc. Also fits well with the travelling. Also, do we need the complexity of the Squire? Peter Macclesfield Esquire as a possible father of Elizabeth seems sensible - early memorials often give the family of the mother/wife [especially if it was worth boasting about!!] I would assume "Armigeri" was a word for bearing or having arms [as in coat of arms] and that would presumably be why the translation given is esquire. So this could be providing some useful family tree information. I wondered, where is the inscription? Best wishes John Frearson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you John, yes this does make more sense. It seems that stables were more popular than I thought. So these are folks who were travelling and  stopped for a while in the stables of the Lord of the Manor, and  it seems  they stayed for a while. Sounds like a happy ending, yes what  can we expect on christmas day Aileen Nobody ever climbed a mountain by saying   'I can't' ________________________________ From: John Frearson <johnphfrearson@btinternet.com> To: ann <rosableu08@yahoo.co.uk>; derbysgen@rootsweb.com Cc: johnphfrearson@btinternet.com Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2012, 17:14 Subject: Re: [DBY] Latin translation help please Ann has given us some further entries and these help considerably as the other words start giving a context, especially when we consider what seems to be the genitive case of Peter, Petri. The other locations also give a flavour of what is being said. Using Google and some schoolboy recollections of Latin [I started learning it at 7 years and managed to pass Common Entrance Latin and then "O" level - at the third attempt aged 17 - I had to pass it to be able to apply for Oxford University!!!]. So suggestions: FOR - Jan 30 bpt Thomas filius Johannis Heeneley vagi et Elizabethae uxoris suae(natus I hara Petri Maclesfield Armigeri ) 1635 SUGGEST - "Thomas, son of John Heeneley, a vagrant, and Elizabeth, his wife (Born in the pigsty of Peter Maclesfield Esquire) 1635" FOR - May 30 bpt Johannes filius Gulielmi Norris utricularii vagi et Johannae uxoris suae ( natus in horreo Petri Macklesfield, Armigeri) SUGGEST - "May 30 - baptised John, son of William Norris itinerant bagpiper and Joan his wife (Born in the barn of Peter Macklesfield Esquire) " FOR - 1636 Jun 29 bpt Johanna filia Thome Bird peregrini et Gratiae uxoris suae ( nata in horreo Petri Macklesfield ) SUGGEST - "29 Aug 1636 - baptised Joan, daughter of Thomas Bird, pilgrim, and Grace, his wife (Born in the barn of Peter Macklesfield)" What fun - No guarentees that these are correct of course, I am now waiting for the Christmas day entries!! Best wishes John Frearson wish I had studied Latin Nobody ever climbed a mountain by saying 'I can't' ________________________________ From: John Frearson <johnphfrearson@btinternet.com> To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2012, 12:45 Subject: Re: [DBY] Latin translation help please Obviously a number of us are aware of Google translate! Dawn's suggested reordering seems a good start. > Would "Thomas, son of John HEENELEY, wanderer (traveller or vagrant) > and Elizabeth his wife (born in exile Peter of Macclesfield's squire) > 1635" make sense? Traveler seems more likely for someone with an inscription for his son's memorial [if that is what it is]. I like hara for exile - could then "I" be miss-transcribed from Latin "In" meaning "in". Thus "in exile" or overseas - thus probably not recorded in registers etc. Also fits well with the travelling. Also, do we need the complexity of the Squire? Peter Macclesfield Esquire as a possible father of Elizabeth seems sensible - early memorials often give the family of the mother/wife [especially if it was worth boasting about!!] I would assume "Armigeri" was a word for bearing or having arms [as in coat of arms] and that would presumably be why the translation given is esquire. So this could be providing some useful family tree information. I wondered, where is the inscription? Best wishes John Frearson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message