Thank you very much for the really interesting info Celia, it has given me a whole new perspective on the matter. I was convinced they must have been Roman Catholics but now I see it may well not have been the case. Some names were Saints names, John (the one in question) and Thomas, but there was quite a few Roberts and a couple of Benjamins. The females were Mary, Elizabeth and a few Ann's. The names of witnesses to the Will are: Jonathan Oxley, David Crosland and Geo. Eyre. The names of the witnesses to his son Robert's Will in 1768 were: David Crosland (again) Elizabeth Mellor (his sister, John's daughter, married to Robert) and Thomas Bagnall. Robert, widower of Bridget, had three sons John, Robert & Thomas. It really doesn't help the way they used the same names over & over, as someone else on the List noted recently. So, there I was, imagining them all skulking about attending their Masses (or whatever) in hidden locations, hence the fines they kept paying and all the time they could have been carousing & having a jolly old time down the local! As you say, it is interesting - it fascinates me. I shall read your blog tomorrow, thanks for the link Celia - and for all the new info I now have which will be extremely helpful in my quest. Kathy in Kent Sent from my iPad

Kathy, what is the surname you're chasing? OXLEY was a dissenter name in Chesterfield, though I have no idea about Eyam. Two witness names like Jonathan and David would lead me straight to Protestant dissent, ie. old dissent (Presbyterian, Independent/Congregational, Baptist) or new dissent (Methodism, becoming more widespread by mid-18th century). MELLORs and BAGNALLs have turned up in association with dissenter families I've researched around the Wirksworth area, and over the border in Staffs, near Alstonefield, Leek and Morridge. Any chance of Scottish ancestry? The Scottish packmen went across the Peak on their journeys from lowland Dumfries & Galloway & Glasgow through England down to London - there's the pub called the Scotsman's Pack in Hathersage for example. Mostly, these chaps were Presbyterian, and some settled along their routes. Always worth a thought. Good hunting, Kathy Celia Renshaw in Sheffield UK Blog: www.morgansite.wordpress.com On 31 May 2018 at 20:24, Kathy Wadlow <katatthefarm@live.co.uk> wrote: > Thank you very much for the really interesting info Celia, it has given me > a whole new perspective on the matter. I was convinced they must have been > Roman Catholics but now I see it may well not have been the case. > > Some names were Saints names, John (the one in question) and Thomas, but > there was quite a few Roberts and a couple of Benjamins. The females were > Mary, Elizabeth and a few Ann's. The names of witnesses to the Will are: > Jonathan Oxley, David Crosland and Geo. Eyre. > The names of the witnesses to his son Robert's Will in 1768 were: David > Crosland (again) Elizabeth Mellor (his sister, John's daughter, married to > Robert) and Thomas Bagnall. > Robert, widower of Bridget, had three sons John, Robert & Thomas. > > It really doesn't help the way they used the same names over & over, as > someone else on the List noted recently. > > So, there I was, imagining them all skulking about attending their Masses > (or whatever) in hidden locations, hence the fines they kept paying and all > the time they could have been carousing & having a jolly old time down the > local! > As you say, it is interesting - it fascinates me. I shall read your blog > tomorrow, > thanks for the link Celia - and for all the new info I now have which will > be extremely helpful in my quest. > > Kathy > in Kent > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/ > derbysgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/ > derbysgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hi Celia, thank you for the interesting info on typical Protestant dissenter names, I really appreciate having your knowledge on this. I hadn't given too much thought to names but from now on will realise they can be pointers. The surname is Torr/Torre. There was quite a cluster of them in Eyam during the Plague years, several members of whom died of plague. When I visited Eyam 2 yrs ago I met Francine Clifford, (whose late husband wrote the book 'Eyam Plague Village 1665-1666') and she very kindly later sent me some stats on Torrs in Eyam. Apparently three or four brothers/cousins, Humphrey, Robert, Godfrey(John?) appeared suddenly in Eyam in the 1660s, not known from whence they came. Now I wonder if they came from Scotland from what you have said! I have absolutely no evidence of any Scots connection but will now look into the possibility. The information on the Pack men from Scotland passing through that area is very helpful, thank you. In the 1700s John & Robert both left land & dwellings in Eyam & Hathersage to their descendants but by early 1800s it was just Hathersage. Although I have no known connection (as yet anyway) there was a Godfrey Torre in Eyam 1660s, (whose son John and grandson died of plague) and whose other son Richard married Ellen/Helen Bagshaw of the 'Apostle of the Peak' family. Knowing that the said 'Apostle' was ostracised by his family for his dissenting views I had assumed the family were probably established/mainstream themselves. So it certainly could be they were Protestant dissenters, the possibility never occurred to me, I was stuck fast thinking recusants just meant Roman Catholics. (I don't know whether Richard & Ellen were actually dissenters). As you can probably tell, you have whetted my appetite to resume the chase for which I'm truly grateful Celia, I've got 'the bug ' again after a long break and have noted the names and areas you mentioned. Looking forward to 'touring' Scotland - hoots mon! Kathy in Kent On 31 May 2018, at 21:17, Celia Renshaw <celiarenshaw@gmail.com> wrote: Kathy, what is the surname you're chasing?

My word, if there was a marriage to one of the BAGSHAWEs, a search down non-conformist avenues would certainly be worthwhile. I've found that it's also helpful to keep in mind that the 16th and 17th centuries were religiously volcanic - individuals and families were tossed and turned between different doctrines and points of view, swayed by the most effective preachers and the latest religious tracts. Puritans famously argued amongst themselves, especially over issues like infant baptism; Presbyterians and Independents famously waged doctrinal wars with each other (as well as forging occasional alliances), eg. during the Civil War and Commonwealth (Oliver Cromwell being an Independent, favouring completely independent congregations, electing their own ministers, simply following the Bible doctrinally, while the Parliamentary Presbyterians tried to establish a national system of presbyteries in place of bishops, similar to Scotland). But most of all, people were naturally wary of religious laws. When Charles II arrived back in 1660, there followed some of the most repressive legislation this country has seen, often termed the Clarendon Code, which was viciously anti-dissent. No wonder some of William BAGSHAWE's family tried to get him to ease up - they were trying to save him from penury and prison I would guess. It wouldn't automatically mean they were not dissenting themselves. More likely they were bending to the times, like most people did during the dreadful 29 years till the Toleration Act. A quick browse online suggests that TORR(E) could be a Scottish name, as well as English, so - you never know! Good luck Celia Renshaw in Sheffield UK Blog: www.morgansite.wordpress.com On 1 June 2018 at 01:20, Kathy Wadlow <katatthefarm@live.co.uk> wrote: > Hi Celia, thank you for the interesting info on typical Protestant > dissenter names, I really appreciate having your knowledge on this. I > hadn't given too much thought to names but from now on will realise they > can be pointers. > > The surname is Torr/Torre. > > There was quite a cluster of them in Eyam during the Plague years, several > members of whom died of plague. > When I visited Eyam 2 yrs ago I met Francine Clifford, (whose late husband > wrote the book 'Eyam Plague Village 1665-1666') and she very kindly later > sent me some stats on Torrs in Eyam. Apparently three or four > brothers/cousins, Humphrey, Robert, Godfrey(John?) appeared suddenly in > Eyam in the 1660s, not known from whence they came. > > Now I wonder if they came from Scotland from what you have said! > > I have absolutely no evidence of any Scots connection but will now look > into the possibility. The information on the Pack men from Scotland > passing through that area is very helpful, thank you. > > In the 1700s John & Robert both left land & dwellings in Eyam & > Hathersage to their descendants but by early 1800s it was just Hathersage. > > Although I have no known connection (as yet anyway) there was a Godfrey > Torre in Eyam 1660s, (whose son John and grandson died of plague) and > whose other son Richard married Ellen/Helen Bagshaw of the 'Apostle of the > Peak' family. Knowing that the said 'Apostle' was ostracised by his family > for his dissenting views I had assumed the family were probably > established/mainstream themselves. > > So it certainly could be they were Protestant dissenters, the possibility > never occurred to me, I was stuck fast thinking recusants just meant Roman > Catholics. (I don't know whether Richard & Ellen were actually dissenters). > > As you can probably tell, you have whetted my appetite to resume the chase > for which I'm truly grateful Celia, I've got 'the bug ' again after a long > break and > have noted the names and areas you mentioned. Looking forward to > 'touring' Scotland - hoots mon! > > Kathy > in Kent > > > >