Celia, may I ask if recusants come under the same umbrella as dissenters? Would any studies include both or be separate? I am trying to find which avenue to pursue as I can't find anything documented such as birth/marriage or any mention of him living in Eyam, as stated in his Will written 1744 (died 1748). These dissenters/recusants ARE nuisance aren't they?! Kathy in Kent Sent from my iPhone

Yep, most nuisancy and also the most interesting, for me anyway! Meaning of word 'recusant' depends on who's saying it. Most modern historians and genealogists would mean Roman Catholic (in which case I wish they'd say that, so we're sure what's meant) but back in the 16th and 17th centuries, people could mean different things by it. The word simply means 'recusing the parish service', ie. not attending parish church weekly as was required by ecclesiastical and civil law. The people who didn't attend church when they should included Roman Catholics but also those Protestant dissenters who were prepared to face the law rather than put up with rituals and doctrines they disagreed with (most did put up with, though) - however, an awful lot of people just didn't go - because - they didn't feel like it. They preferred a bevvie at the local hostelry or playing sports (euphemistic or otherwise) or working perhaps. So, 16th and 17th century sources that use the word 'recusant' could easily be referring to Protestant dissenters as well as Catholics, and maybe the 'layabouts' too. There can be other clues to suggest whether a person was RC or a Protestant dissenter/Puritan. Names are suggestive. Catholics favoured 'medieval' names like Christopher, Michael, Philip and other Saints' names and Prots liked Biblical names like Timothy, Daniel, Jonathan, Ruth, Sarah, Abigail and 'moral' ones like Silence, Virtue, Obedience (grinds teeth). Wordings in Wills can be indicative, especially the opening 'religious' clause, if there was one. Absence of such a clause might indicate dissent/RC, and the word 'elect' often suggested Puritan/Calvinist. Who witnessed the Will was important - other people with Biblical names? Puritan clergyman? There is one book on Derbyshire Non-conformity that's very helpful, though it doesn't include Quakers or Catholics - Stephen Orchard's "Nonconformity in Derbyshire: A Study in Dissent 1600-1800". There are also some articles on my blog about this topic. Hope this is helpful! Celia Renshaw in Sheffield UK Blog: www.morgansite.wordpress.com On 31 May 2018 at 17:36, Kathy Wadlow <katatthefarm@live.co.uk> wrote: > Celia, may I ask if recusants come under the same umbrella as dissenters? > Would any studies include both or be separate? I am trying to find which > avenue to pursue as I can't find anything documented such as birth/marriage > or any mention of him living in Eyam, as stated in his Will written 1744 > (died 1748). These dissenters/recusants ARE nuisance aren't they?! > > Kathy > in Kent > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ >

Very useful info, thank you, Celia. Kind regards Joy ________________________________ From: Celia Renshaw <celiarenshaw@gmail.com> Sent: 31 May 2018 18:28 To: Derbyshire genealogy Subject: [DBY]Re: Dissenters Yep, most nuisancy and also the most interesting, for me anyway! Meaning of word 'recusant' depends on who's saying it. Most modern historians and genealogists would mean Roman Catholic (in which case I wish they'd say that, so we're sure what's meant) but back in the 16th and 17th centuries, people could mean different things by it. The word simply means 'recusing the parish service', ie. not attending parish church weekly as was required by ecclesiastical and civil law. The people who didn't attend church when they should included Roman Catholics but also those Protestant dissenters who were prepared to face the law rather than put up with rituals and doctrines they disagreed with (most did put up with, though) - however, an awful lot of people just didn't go - because - they didn't feel like it. They preferred a bevvie at the local hostelry or playing sports (euphemistic or otherwise) or working perhaps. So, 16th and 17th century sources that use the word 'recusant' could easily be referring to Protestant dissenters as well as Catholics, and maybe the 'layabouts' too. There can be other clues to suggest whether a person was RC or a Protestant dissenter/Puritan. Names are suggestive. Catholics favoured 'medieval' names like Christopher, Michael, Philip and other Saints' names and Prots liked Biblical names like Timothy, Daniel, Jonathan, Ruth, Sarah, Abigail and 'moral' ones like Silence, Virtue, Obedience (grinds teeth). Wordings in Wills can be indicative, especially the opening 'religious' clause, if there was one. Absence of such a clause might indicate dissent/RC, and the word 'elect' often suggested Puritan/Calvinist. Who witnessed the Will was important - other people with Biblical names? Puritan clergyman? There is one book on Derbyshire Non-conformity that's very helpful, though it doesn't include Quakers or Catholics - Stephen Orchard's "Nonconformity in Derbyshire: A Study in Dissent 1600-1800". There are also some articles on my blog about this topic. Hope this is helpful! Celia Renshaw in Sheffield UK Blog: www.morgansite.wordpress.com<http://www.morgansite.wordpress.com> On 31 May 2018 at 17:36, Kathy Wadlow <katatthefarm@live.co.uk> wrote: > Celia, may I ask if recusants come under the same umbrella as dissenters? > Would any studies include both or be separate? I am trying to find which > avenue to pursue as I can't find anything documented such as birth/marriage > or any mention of him living in Eyam, as stated in his Will written 1744 > (died 1748). These dissenters/recusants ARE nuisance aren't they?! > > Kathy > in Kent > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/derbysgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/derbysgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community