Hello Celia There's nothing about Cromford Chapel on www.wirksworth.org, but some information in Cox Vol 2 about the somewhat nebulous history of the chapel. Nothing, however, about any records surviving. I'm going to the "Cromford Threads" conference at Cromford Mills on 6 May, so there may be someone there to ask. If any other lister is going, perhaps we could meet up? Thanks anyway. Nick ------ Original Message ------ From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> To: "Nick Higton" <[email protected]> Cc: "Derbyshire genealogy" <[email protected]> Sent: 18/04/2017 12:31:13 Subject: Re: [DBY] Chapelries / Chapels of Ease >Nick, I think the DRO and Lichfield JRO are the places to go for any >extant info about Cromford Bridge Chapel. Have you also checked the >Wirksworth website www.wirksworth.org.uk? There's no info about it in >the research done on clergy by Richard Clark (he kindly supplied me >clergy details for Wirksworth and its chapels up to 1670.) There might >be something in Cox's books on Derbyshire Churches? > >My guess is, that if the chapel doesn't get mentioned in DRO's guide, >it's because there are no PRs for it. I think the guide is to their PR >holdings rather than to all churches and chapels that have ever existed >in Derbyshire. > >Regards, Celia Renshaw >now in Sheffield, Yorks > >On 17 April 2017 at 21:17, Nick Higton <[email protected]> wrote: >>Hello Celia & List >> >>That's brilliant. Thanks for all the useful information. The DRO >>guide is particularly useful. >> >>You're quite correct; Winster was a chapelry of Youlgreave. >> >>One omission I noticed on the DRO list was Cromford Bridge Chapel. >>The Derbyshire Heritage website states that, by the 16th century, the >>building was in use as a parochial chapelry of Wirksworth but by the >>mid-1600s was no longer used as a place of worship. However, I have >>seen some un-referenced information to folk being buried there into >>the 18th century. >> >>Are there any records or MIs that have survived? >> >>Nick >> >>------ Original Message ------ >>From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> >>To: "Nick Higton" <[email protected]>; "Derbyshire genealogy" >><[email protected]> >>Sent: 16/04/2017 17:16:56 >>Subject: Re: [DBY] Chapelries / Chapels of Ease >> >>>Hi Nick, I've had cause to look into this too. I believe all places >>>of >>>worship, whatever their designation, were and are licensed by the >>>relevant >>>diocesan bishop, so for Derbyshire in the past that was Lichfield & >>>Coventry Diocese. >>> >>>My experience is that there were no consistent 'rules' consistently >>>followed about how registers were kept. A chapel might have its own >>>or it >>>didn't and we find entries for events there in the mother church's >>>registers. Or it started to keep its own later. Quite often the >>>registers >>>for chapelries have not survived even when the mother church's have. >>>One >>>ongoing problem over the centuries was the lack of sufficiently >>>educated & >>>ordained ministers to fill livings as curates and vicars, so chapels >>>might >>>be 'unserved' for long stretches of time. My understanding also is >>>that >>>very often records of events, at both churches and chapels, were >>>noted on >>>'slips of paper', ie. rough notes were made, from which fair copies >>>were >>>later made into the actual registers - so that would have worked for >>>chapelries rather than the registers being hauled about. And there >>>were >>>periods when it was legally required for the incumbent to keep >>>registers >>>and others when they couldn't - separate people had to keep the >>>registers. >>> >>>You're right that different chapels had different licences for >>>performing >>>baptisms, marriages and burials - and these licences could be >>>different at >>>different historical periods. Many chapelries, and especially chapels >>>of >>>ease, had no burial ground of their own. Many could not perform >>>marriages. >>>Information on which could do what at which historical period can be >>>found >>>at record offices and at diocesan archives. For Derbyshire, the DRO >>>do a >>>pretty good job of telling you these details in their Parish Register >>>Guide, accessible online: >>>http://derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Parish%20Register%20Guide_tcm44-17013.pdf >>><http://derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Parish%20Register%20Guide_tcm44-17013.pdf>. >>>Another good guide is the National Index of Parish Registers produced >>>by >>>the Soc of Genealogists, vol 6 being Derbyshire. This includes >>>details of >>>non-conformist places of worship too (not fully comprehensive, though >>>nearly so.) >>> >>>I believe the decision about licensing a chapel would be made at >>>diocesan >>>level and I've read in the past that members of the congregation >>>might >>>lobby for that, or the incumbent might lobby to relieve pressure of >>>work >>>and so forth. All kinds of reasons. DRO's guide tells you when PRs >>>were >>>first kept and/or chapels were licensed for the first time (if known) >>>- I'm >>>guessing that any record of that happening will be at Lichfield Joint >>>Record Office. I've done a spreadsheet for myself of what churches & >>>chapels there were in Derbyshire and their status, created mostly >>>from the >>>sources I've mentioned. My spreadsheet says that Alderwasley All >>>Saints was >>>a chapel of Wirksworth and only had separate PRs from 1861. Dethick >>>(plus >>>Lea & Holloway) St John the Baptist was a chapelry in Ashover and had >>>separate PRs from 1754. I have Winster St John the Baptist as a >>>chapelry in >>>Youlgreave parish with its own PRs from 1674 (transcript now >>>available for >>>1633-74). The Guide says it became a separate parish in 1866. >>> >>>I wrote a blog article about this kind of knotty issue which might be >>>entertaining: >>>https://morgansite.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/lost-in-osmaston-or-when-is-a-parish-not-a-parish/ >>><https://morgansite.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/lost-in-osmaston-or-when-is-a-parish-not-a-parish/> >>> >>>Celia Renshaw >>>now in Sheffield, Yorks >>> >>>On 16 April 2017 at 16:42, Nick Higton via DERBYSGEN >>><[email protected] >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> Can anyone point me in the right direction regarding the >>>>arrangements >>>> surrounding Chapelries, or Chapels of Ease? My interest arises out >>>>of >>>> records at Alderwasley, Winster and Dethick chapelries in the 18th >>>>and 19th >>>> centuries. >>>> >>>> In particular: >>>> 1. Were chapelries "licenced" by their Parish Church as to the >>>>rites they >>>> could (or could not) perform? Winster appears to have records for >>>>baptisms >>>> and burials, but not marriages. >>>> 2. How were the records maintained at chapelries? Was the "master" >>>>copy >>>> retained at the chapel and, if so, was a copy made in the parish >>>>church >>>> registers each year (?), so the Bishops Transcripts could be >>>>prepared? >>>> Alternatively, did the minister take a copy of the parish register >>>>with him >>>> to the chapelry when he was to perform a rite (not very likely, I >>>>would >>>> have thought)? >>>> 3. How and when was it decided whether a chapelry should become a >>>>parish >>>> church in its own right, and where is the change of status >>>>recorded? I >>>> believe that Dethick was a chapelry of Ashover, becoming a parish >>>>church >>>> in the late 19th century; Winster was a chapelry of Bakewell; >>>>whilst >>>> Alderwasley (both old and new buildings) has always been a chapel >>>>of ease. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] >>>><mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >> >