Hello Celia & List That's brilliant. Thanks for all the useful information. The DRO guide is particularly useful. You're quite correct; Winster was a chapelry of Youlgreave. One omission I noticed on the DRO list was Cromford Bridge Chapel. The Derbyshire Heritage website states that, by the 16th century, the building was in use as a parochial chapelry of Wirksworth but by the mid-1600s was no longer used as a place of worship. However, I have seen some un-referenced information to folk being buried there into the 18th century. Are there any records or MIs that have survived? Nick ------ Original Message ------ From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> To: "Nick Higton" <[email protected]>; "Derbyshire genealogy" <[email protected]> Sent: 16/04/2017 17:16:56 Subject: Re: [DBY] Chapelries / Chapels of Ease >Hi Nick, I've had cause to look into this too. I believe all places of >worship, whatever their designation, were and are licensed by the >relevant >diocesan bishop, so for Derbyshire in the past that was Lichfield & >Coventry Diocese. > >My experience is that there were no consistent 'rules' consistently >followed about how registers were kept. A chapel might have its own or >it >didn't and we find entries for events there in the mother church's >registers. Or it started to keep its own later. Quite often the >registers >for chapelries have not survived even when the mother church's have. >One >ongoing problem over the centuries was the lack of sufficiently >educated & >ordained ministers to fill livings as curates and vicars, so chapels >might >be 'unserved' for long stretches of time. My understanding also is that >very often records of events, at both churches and chapels, were noted >on >'slips of paper', ie. rough notes were made, from which fair copies >were >later made into the actual registers - so that would have worked for >chapelries rather than the registers being hauled about. And there were >periods when it was legally required for the incumbent to keep >registers >and others when they couldn't - separate people had to keep the >registers. > >You're right that different chapels had different licences for >performing >baptisms, marriages and burials - and these licences could be different >at >different historical periods. Many chapelries, and especially chapels >of >ease, had no burial ground of their own. Many could not perform >marriages. >Information on which could do what at which historical period can be >found >at record offices and at diocesan archives. For Derbyshire, the DRO do >a >pretty good job of telling you these details in their Parish Register >Guide, accessible online: >http://derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Parish%20Register%20Guide_tcm44-17013.pdf. >Another good guide is the National Index of Parish Registers produced >by >the Soc of Genealogists, vol 6 being Derbyshire. This includes details >of >non-conformist places of worship too (not fully comprehensive, though >nearly so.) > >I believe the decision about licensing a chapel would be made at >diocesan >level and I've read in the past that members of the congregation might >lobby for that, or the incumbent might lobby to relieve pressure of >work >and so forth. All kinds of reasons. DRO's guide tells you when PRs were >first kept and/or chapels were licensed for the first time (if known) - >I'm >guessing that any record of that happening will be at Lichfield Joint >Record Office. I've done a spreadsheet for myself of what churches & >chapels there were in Derbyshire and their status, created mostly from >the >sources I've mentioned. My spreadsheet says that Alderwasley All Saints >was >a chapel of Wirksworth and only had separate PRs from 1861. Dethick >(plus >Lea & Holloway) St John the Baptist was a chapelry in Ashover and had >separate PRs from 1754. I have Winster St John the Baptist as a >chapelry in >Youlgreave parish with its own PRs from 1674 (transcript now available >for >1633-74). The Guide says it became a separate parish in 1866. > >I wrote a blog article about this kind of knotty issue which might be >entertaining: >https://morgansite.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/lost-in-osmaston-or-when-is-a-parish-not-a-parish/ > >Celia Renshaw >now in Sheffield, Yorks > >On 16 April 2017 at 16:42, Nick Higton via DERBYSGEN ><[email protected] >> wrote: > >> Can anyone point me in the right direction regarding the arrangements >> surrounding Chapelries, or Chapels of Ease? My interest arises out >>of >> records at Alderwasley, Winster and Dethick chapelries in the 18th >>and 19th >> centuries. >> >> In particular: >> 1. Were chapelries "licenced" by their Parish Church as to the rites >>they >> could (or could not) perform? Winster appears to have records for >>baptisms >> and burials, but not marriages. >> 2. How were the records maintained at chapelries? Was the "master" >>copy >> retained at the chapel and, if so, was a copy made in the parish >>church >> registers each year (?), so the Bishops Transcripts could be >>prepared? >> Alternatively, did the minister take a copy of the parish register >>with him >> to the chapelry when he was to perform a rite (not very likely, I >>would >> have thought)? >> 3. How and when was it decided whether a chapelry should become a >>parish >> church in its own right, and where is the change of status recorded? >>I >> believe that Dethick was a chapelry of Ashover, becoming a parish >>church >> in the late 19th century; Winster was a chapelry of Bakewell; whilst >> Alderwasley (both old and new buildings) has always been a chapel of >>ease. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

Nick, I think the DRO and Lichfield JRO are the places to go for any extant info about Cromford Bridge Chapel. Have you also checked the Wirksworth website www.wirksworth.org.uk? There's no info about it in the research done on clergy by Richard Clark (he kindly supplied me clergy details for Wirksworth and its chapels up to 1670.) There might be something in Cox's books on Derbyshire Churches? My guess is, that if the chapel doesn't get mentioned in DRO's guide, it's because there are no PRs for it. I think the guide is to their PR holdings rather than to all churches and chapels that have ever existed in Derbyshire. Regards, Celia Renshaw now in Sheffield, Yorks On 17 April 2017 at 21:17, Nick Higton <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Celia & List > > That's brilliant. Thanks for all the useful information. The DRO guide is > particularly useful. > > You're quite correct; Winster was a chapelry of Youlgreave. > > One omission I noticed on the DRO list was Cromford Bridge Chapel. The > Derbyshire Heritage website states that, by the 16th century, the building > was in use as a parochial chapelry of Wirksworth but by the mid-1600s was > no longer used as a place of worship. However, I have seen some > un-referenced information to folk being buried there into the 18th century. > > Are there any records or MIs that have survived? > > Nick > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> > To: "Nick Higton" <[email protected]>; "Derbyshire genealogy" < > [email protected]> > Sent: 16/04/2017 17:16:56 > Subject: Re: [DBY] Chapelries / Chapels of Ease > > Hi Nick, I've had cause to look into this too. I believe all places of >> worship, whatever their designation, were and are licensed by the relevant >> diocesan bishop, so for Derbyshire in the past that was Lichfield & >> Coventry Diocese. >> >> My experience is that there were no consistent 'rules' consistently >> followed about how registers were kept. A chapel might have its own or it >> didn't and we find entries for events there in the mother church's >> registers. Or it started to keep its own later. Quite often the registers >> for chapelries have not survived even when the mother church's have. One >> ongoing problem over the centuries was the lack of sufficiently educated & >> ordained ministers to fill livings as curates and vicars, so chapels might >> be 'unserved' for long stretches of time. My understanding also is that >> very often records of events, at both churches and chapels, were noted on >> 'slips of paper', ie. rough notes were made, from which fair copies were >> later made into the actual registers - so that would have worked for >> chapelries rather than the registers being hauled about. And there were >> periods when it was legally required for the incumbent to keep registers >> and others when they couldn't - separate people had to keep the registers. >> >> You're right that different chapels had different licences for performing >> baptisms, marriages and burials - and these licences could be different at >> different historical periods. Many chapelries, and especially chapels of >> ease, had no burial ground of their own. Many could not perform marriages. >> Information on which could do what at which historical period can be found >> at record offices and at diocesan archives. For Derbyshire, the DRO do a >> pretty good job of telling you these details in their Parish Register >> Guide, accessible online: >> http://derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Parish%20Register%20Guide_tcm44-17013.pdf >> . >> Another good guide is the National Index of Parish Registers produced by >> the Soc of Genealogists, vol 6 being Derbyshire. This includes details of >> non-conformist places of worship too (not fully comprehensive, though >> nearly so.) >> >> I believe the decision about licensing a chapel would be made at diocesan >> level and I've read in the past that members of the congregation might >> lobby for that, or the incumbent might lobby to relieve pressure of work >> and so forth. All kinds of reasons. DRO's guide tells you when PRs were >> first kept and/or chapels were licensed for the first time (if known) - >> I'm >> guessing that any record of that happening will be at Lichfield Joint >> Record Office. I've done a spreadsheet for myself of what churches & >> chapels there were in Derbyshire and their status, created mostly from the >> sources I've mentioned. My spreadsheet says that Alderwasley All Saints >> was >> a chapel of Wirksworth and only had separate PRs from 1861. Dethick (plus >> Lea & Holloway) St John the Baptist was a chapelry in Ashover and had >> separate PRs from 1754. I have Winster St John the Baptist as a chapelry >> in >> Youlgreave parish with its own PRs from 1674 (transcript now available for >> 1633-74). The Guide says it became a separate parish in 1866. >> >> I wrote a blog article about this kind of knotty issue which might be >> entertaining: >> https://morgansite.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/lost-in-osmaston >> -or-when-is-a-parish-not-a-parish/ >> >> Celia Renshaw >> now in Sheffield, Yorks >> >> On 16 April 2017 at 16:42, Nick Higton via DERBYSGEN < >> [email protected] >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> Can anyone point me in the right direction regarding the arrangements >>> surrounding Chapelries, or Chapels of Ease? My interest arises out of >>> records at Alderwasley, Winster and Dethick chapelries in the 18th and >>> 19th >>> centuries. >>> >>> In particular: >>> 1. Were chapelries "licenced" by their Parish Church as to the rites >>> they >>> could (or could not) perform? Winster appears to have records for >>> baptisms >>> and burials, but not marriages. >>> 2. How were the records maintained at chapelries? Was the "master" copy >>> retained at the chapel and, if so, was a copy made in the parish church >>> registers each year (?), so the Bishops Transcripts could be prepared? >>> Alternatively, did the minister take a copy of the parish register with >>> him >>> to the chapelry when he was to perform a rite (not very likely, I would >>> have thought)? >>> 3. How and when was it decided whether a chapelry should become a parish >>> church in its own right, and where is the change of status recorded? I >>> believe that Dethick was a chapelry of Ashover, becoming a parish >>> church >>> in the late 19th century; Winster was a chapelry of Bakewell; whilst >>> Alderwasley (both old and new buildings) has always been a chapel of >>> ease. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >