Interesting Margaret. My mother-in-law's family are a case in point. It took me a long time to sort out as they were Irish Catholics (in England) and everything was in Latin! Starting in 1904. The young Irish girl gave birth to a boy. She was a staunch Catholic so took the child to church to have him baptised. I knew the boy concerned. He grew up with the surname that the other 10 children had, however he was illegitimate but he had his father's name as a middle name. Her mother was not impressed. The girl wanted to marry the father of her child but (a) he was a stoker on ships going around the world and (b) he was not Catholic. So, her mother came up with a solution. There was a young man who was a lodger (also a sailor) and he needed a wife to look respectable - was he gay? They married and he then vanished never to be seen again. So, a second child was born and then a third. These two children had the father's name as a middle name and the husband's name as a surname!!! Hope you are following me. When she had them baptised (having been to church and confessed her sins) the priest wrote in the baptism register (in Latin) that the child was the child of XXX but the husband was YYY. She was at some stage excommunicated. She continued to produce children. The next 3 were girls. To Register these children as the children of her "partner" he had to be with her to register them in his name. Again, the church continued to make the point that they were the children of XXX even though the husband was YYY. After 6 children had been born and the husband had been "missing presumed dead" for at least 7 years, the couple married and had 5 more children. As it was the Catholic church full details had been noted in the church register but would a Parish Church make such notes? How about the occasions when it was known that a baby was the product of a child of the family but registered and brought up as the child of the grandmother? How often have we seen women over 50 purporting to be the mother of a child? Liz -----Original Message----- From: DERBYSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Margaret Siudek via DERBYSGEN Sent: 04 June 2017 10:15 To: [email protected] Cc: Margaret Siudek Subject: Re: [DBY] Baptisms where father isn't named Liz is most probably right but, in legal terms, isn't a child born to a married couple legitimate, unless there's proof to the contrary? I know that's easy now with DNA testing, but it would have been harder in the past. Could a vicar or registrar just decide he didn't believe the baby was the child of the husband? Margaret On 04/06/2017 09:45, Liz via DERBYSGEN wrote: The vicar went off to wet the baby's head and when it came to fill in the details he had forgotten the dad's name!!! It could also be that the husband was dead and the vicar thought the father was a different person in the village/town or the father was absent abroad. Liz -----Original Message----- From: DERBYSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joan M via DERBYSGEN Sent: 03 June 2017 15:15 To: 'Derbyshire genealogy' Cc: Joan M Subject: [DBY] Baptisms where father isn't named Hi, Apart from illegitimacy, is there any other reason that the father wouldn't be named? Thanks Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Fascinating story. Sometimes women had to be persistent to get what they wanted! In my family a Mildred Dalton had an illegitimate child in 1827 who she named Woods- so Woods Dalton. However, less than 3 months later, she married a George Woods. I think we can guess who the father was, and only wonder at the effect of her choice of name for her son. Was she trying to embarrass him into 'doing the decent thing'? There is no comment on the register about him being illegitimate, or mention of the father's name. But although George and Mildred then went on to have at least 10 more legitimate children, Woods kept to his original surname. I guess being called Woods Woods would have been difficult. Margaret On 04/06/2017 11:11, Liz via DERBYSGEN wrote: Interesting Margaret. My mother-in-law's family are a case in point. It took me a long time to sort out as they were Irish Catholics (in England) and everything was in Latin! Starting in 1904. The young Irish girl gave birth to a boy. She was a staunch Catholic so took the child to church to have him baptised. I knew the boy concerned. He grew up with the surname that the other 10 children had, however he was illegitimate but he had his father's name as a middle name. Her mother was not impressed. The girl wanted to marry the father of her child but (a) he was a stoker on ships going around the world and (b) he was not Catholic. So, her mother came up with a solution. There was a young man who was a lodger (also a sailor) and he needed a wife to look respectable - was he gay? They married and he then vanished never to be seen again. So, a second child was born and then a third. These two children had the father's name as a middle name and the husband's name as a surname!!! Hope you are following me. When she had them baptised (having been to church and confessed her sins) the priest wrote in the baptism register (in Latin) that the child was the child of XXX but the husband was YYY. She was at some stage excommunicated. She continued to produce children. The next 3 were girls. To Register these children as the children of her "partner" he had to be with her to register them in his name. Again, the church continued to make the point that they were the children of XXX even though the husband was YYY. After 6 children had been born and the husband had been "missing presumed dead" for at least 7 years, the couple married and had 5 more children. As it was the Catholic church full details had been noted in the church register but would a Parish Church make such notes? How about the occasions when it was known that a baby was the product of a child of the family but registered and brought up as the child of the grandmother? How often have we seen women over 50 purporting to be the mother of a child? Liz -----Original Message----- From: DERBYSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Margaret Siudek via DERBYSGEN Sent: 04 June 2017 10:15 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Cc: Margaret Siudek Subject: Re: [DBY] Baptisms where father isn't named Liz is most probably right but, in legal terms, isn't a child born to a married couple legitimate, unless there's proof to the contrary? I know that's easy now with DNA testing, but it would have been harder in the past. Could a vicar or registrar just decide he didn't believe the baby was the child of the husband? Margaret On 04/06/2017 09:45, Liz via DERBYSGEN wrote: The vicar went off to wet the baby's head and when it came to fill in the details he had forgotten the dad's name!!! It could also be that the husband was dead and the vicar thought the father was a different person in the village/town or the father was absent abroad. Liz -----Original Message----- From: DERBYSGEN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joan M via DERBYSGEN Sent: 03 June 2017 15:15 To: 'Derbyshire genealogy' Cc: Joan M Subject: [DBY] Baptisms where father isn't named Hi, Apart from illegitimacy, is there any other reason that the father wouldn't be named? Thanks Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message