Jennifer Craddock wrote: > Hi Connie > Thanks for the reply, it does say in one census I have that one of > Benjamin & Patience's sons was > born in the US > Must check now all the info for the mothers maiden name, as this is new Hallo The census was a transcript of the household schedule. It would be worth checking that further just in case an error was made. It just seems strange to me that a family would make the hazardous journey to North America, settle there for several years, then make the equally hazardous journey back to England.

Hi Everyone, My Brick Wall, is the Mather Family from Derbyshire. I am still looking for Ellen Mather Birch, who is my Great Great Grandmother,Born 1841 who married a William Birch, 1861, Still trying to find her after 1866. I am still trying to find what year that she died? Thanking you Anne

Jen, I found William Bentley in someone's tree on ancestry and it says he died in 1869 but they don't have a marriage for him. I'm presuming he is the right William Bentley though as his father was Benjamin a tailor (1851 census) and his mother was Patience. William was baptised at Tutbury, Staffs on 3 Jun 1838, his parents had a large family including two sons who was born in the USA, and twins who were baptised under the mother's maiden name of Harrison. The rest of Ben & Patience's children, apart from one other, were all born in Tutbury as far as I can see. I can't find wife Hannah in 1871 though as I'm not sure where she was born. Cheers....Dawn ©¿©¬ Jennifer Craddock wrote: > Where did William Bentley and Hannah Salt nee Hickingbotham (various > spellings) go > > > William Bentley (shoe maker) aged 29 and Hannah Salt (widow) aged 26 > married 9 June 1867 at Parish Church Duffield, Derby > Father of William was Benjamine Bentley (Tailor) Father of Hannah was > Matthew Hickingham (Labourer) > Witnesses - Herbert Archer and Elizabeth Smith > > I can find no trace of them in 1871 census

Dawn Scotting wrote: > William was baptised at Tutbury, Staffs on 3 Jun 1838, his parents had a > large family including two sons who was born in the USA, and twins who > were baptised under the mother's maiden name of Harrison. The rest of > Ben & Patience's children, apart from one other, were all born in > Tutbury as far as I can see. Hallo I think the two sons who were born in the USA could be wrong. Whoever's tree it is may have mis-identified the place or mis-recorded it as being in the USA when it wasn't. Connie in London

Where did William Bentley and Hannah Salt nee Hickingbotham (various spellings) go William Bentley (shoe maker) aged 29 and Hannah Salt (widow) aged 26 married 9 June 1867 at Parish Church Duffield, Derby Father of William was Benjamine Bentley (Tailor) Father of Hannah was Matthew Hickingham (Labourer) Witnesses - Herbert Archer and Elizabeth Smith I can find no trace of them in 1871 census Jen (NSW) ---------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6165 - Release Date: 03/11/13 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A million apologies, folks. What a plonker! Yes, the Linton in question should indeed have been posted to the Cambridgeshire list. Too much bad weather has meant too much computer time resulting in lapses of concentration. So sorry, again. Carole Noden Kent, UK

Some of my SMEDLEY ancestors were boatmen on the Trent at Sawley in the 19th century. There is perhaps a very tentative link for them to Banbury in Oxfordshire and I would like to know if there was any possibility of regular river and canal traffic between these to parishes in the late 1700's and the first half of the 1800's. I'm hoping that someone with a knowledge of the canal and river trade in that broad time period will be able to help. Thank you Darryl Sydney Australia

Brilliant Roy, you have the correct SALES family and of course Mary JACKSON. Thanks very much for the other info and particularly the illegitimate information. I hadn't thought of this and just assumed normal marriages with the probability of a Marriage connection SALES to BEECH. Should have thought of a reputed father connection. Much appreciated. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: roy.stockdill@btinternet.com Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:32 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Letter B - Beech - Sales From: "Dennis Fflavell" <dennis@fflavell.freeserve.co.uk> > Am trying to find a marriage connection for BEECH and SALES. Pre > middle 19th century. > > BEACH is the middle name with SALES the surname and am guessing that > there is a previous BEECH marriage connection to SALES.> WILLIAM BEECH SALES, b Chesterfield RD March qtr 1845, m Chesterfield RD Dec qtr 1864, d Sheffield RD Dec qtr 1908 aged 63. His is the only entry that appears to fit your description at FreeBMD. FreeBMD has no marriage for BEECH-SALES or variants, therefore either his mother was not a Beech, the marriage was before 1837 or the connection is in an earlier generation, probably grandparents. The only William Sales b 1845 found in the 1851 entry that fits is William aged 6, scholar, b at Handley, living at West Handley, Staveley, with father also William Sales, two older siblings and grandmother Sarah Jackson, unmarried, aged 62. William senior is described as Sarah's son-in-law, thus I presume his wife (who was not present in 1851 though William is described as married) must have been a Jackson. FreeBMD has the potential marriage of William Sales to Mary Jackson at Chesterfield Rd in the Dec qtr of 1837 and this would appear to tie in with the first child, Christopher, b 1838. The marriage is confirmed at FamilySearch on 2 Oct 1837 at Dronfield of William Sales to Mary Jackson. Have I got the right scenario? If so, clearly, we need to look farther back and the 1851 census entry showing Sarah Jackson as unmarried indicates that Mary was illegitimate, so probably any Beech-Sales marriage would have been on William's line. However, I note that in the IGI marriage entry William's parentage is shown only as Mary Sales with no father shown which would suggest he was illegitimate too. Hmmm.....I begin to see the problem! My best suggestion is that William Sales snr was illegitimate but knew that his father was a Beech or Beach. Let's not forget that single women who gave birth to an illegitimate child very often gave a clue to the putative father by giving the child the father's surname as a middle name. Could this be the solution??? If it is the case, I fear you may never be able to find out where the name Beach/Beech came from unless you can find that Mary Sales took the father to court for maintenance. Have you looked at Poor Law/court records for the area? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6165 - Release Date: 03/11/13

Hello, My brick wall is John Bradbury c 1740.I have his marriage to Mabell Lowe on 26/12/1763 Derby,All Saints.I would like to find his birth and parents, the same for Mabell. Thank you Roy Davies

the message says according to a friend of mine "Chinese Railway Group" second line "Number 2 construction team" Barry form Canada -----Original Message----- From: John Palmer Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:05 AM To: DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [DBY] Translation: Chinese to English Hello Folk, I have a sign in Chinese on an old photo. Can anyone translate it into English? The sign is halfway down the webpage on www.eyemead.com/Mark.htm and entitled "Chinese Camp" An old friend of mine from Wirksworth, Derbyshire is near his end and has always wondered what the sign in Chinese says when he took the photo in Africa in 1971 Hopefully, John Palmer Author of Wirksworth website www.wirksworth.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Geraldine Unfortunately its the wrong County, the Linton in question is in Cambridgeshire Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/03/2013 18:41, Geraldine Bancroft wrote: > Hi Carole > > Where is this Linton? The Linton I know, near Church Gresley & Castle > Gresley in south Derbyshire has a church called Christ Church not St Mary. > > Cheers > > Geraldine > Hello folks, > > Does anyone have acces to M.I's for St Mary's churchyard, Linton and would > do a lookup for me, please? > > John T DUNNELL buried there 4th February 1928. > His wife was Susanna COLLIER born Linton 1855 so he might be with her > family. > > Thanks to Nivard who found his burial. > > Many thanks, > Carole Noden, > Kent, > UK

Hi Carole Where is this Linton? The Linton I know, near Church Gresley & Castle Gresley in south Derbyshire has a church called Christ Church not St Mary. Cheers Geraldine Regards Geraldine Bancroft -----Original Message----- From: Noden Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:42 AM To: DERBYSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [DBY] St Mary's Churchyard, Linton - M.I.s Hello folks, Does anyone have acces to M.I's for St Mary's churchyard, Linton and would do a lookup for me, please? John T DUNNELL buried there 4th February 1928. His wife was Susanna COLLIER born Linton 1855 so he might be with her family. Thanks to Nivard who found his burial. Many thanks, Carole Noden, Kent, UK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I checked with someone I work with and this is what I was told: It is something along the lines of - People's Republic of China railroad (like the CN/CP railroad here in Canada) being under construction. Joanne Bradbury Toronto, Canada > From: johnpalmer@wirksworth.org.uk > To: DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:05:33 +0000 > Subject: [DBY] Translation: Chinese to English > > Hello Folk, > I have a sign in Chinese on an old photo. Can anyone > translate it into English? > The sign is halfway down the webpage on > www.eyemead.com/Mark.htm > and entitled "Chinese Camp" > An old friend of mine from Wirksworth, Derbyshire > is near his end and has always wondered what > the sign in Chinese says when he took the photo > in Africa in 1971 > Hopefully, > John Palmer > Author of Wirksworth website > www.wirksworth.org.uk > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Don, I'm afraid I can't help you directly with your lost Thomas LANGFORD but you might strike lucky with some manorial records for Holllingworth, since the Thomas there was a husbandman. As far as I'm aware, this term simply meant a 'small farmer', not as substantial in acreage and worth as a yeoman, and didn't necessarily imply a long residence in an area - indeed, I think husbandmen could be quite mobile, moving onto better farms and opportunities when they arose. A husbandman might easily have been a copyholder and therefore might figure in manorial records if they exist for Hollingworth. Locating manorial records is a detective job in its own right and unfortunately, Cheshire, like Derbyshire, is not yet included in the digitised Manorial Documents Register at the National Archives: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mdr/default.htm. However, Derbyshire RO's manorial documents project gets underway this year so maybe the same is true for Cheshire. Best thing would be to ask the MDR what they have on file for Hollingworth. The contact address I have is: asd@nationalarchives.gov.uk, and it's also worth asking Cheshire Archives for any guide they have to the county's manor records. The good thing about manor court rolls and papers, where they exist, is that they can often document a family line over many generations. It's always possible the LANGFORDs held lands in Hollingworth, or acquired some by inheritance or marriage. Have you been able to scrutinise all the available Wills for the family? Failing manor records, there may be family and estate records for Hollingworth, including things like rentals for the local bigwig's estate, which might document your chap's arrival or start of a lease or similar. Worth checking the archive's catalogue. It's no great surprise if one member of a family chose a different occupation, especially if there were plentiful sons to join the main family business. I have come across this kind of pattern on numerous occasions. Hope this helps Regards, Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK On 12 March 2013 01:16, Don Sutherland <faldocs@bigpond.com> wrote: > Charani wrote> Does anyone have any brickwall families whose surnames > begin > with B? I can't believe none of you have brickwalls :)) > > > Oh Charani, I'm sure most of us do, perhaps we're all sitting back > patiently > for our letter to come up. I live a frustratingly long way away and am such > an impatient old sod, can I slip in under A for Ashbourne - pretty please? > > My brick wall is Thomas Langford who was baptised 26 June 1768 at Saint > Oswald, Ashbourne. His parents were William Langford and Sarah Peach and > his > grandfather was John Langford who I believe was the founder of a Langford > family dynasty of builders who were renowned builders over four > generations. > Some of their buildings still stand around Ashbourne to this day. My > brickwall is that I desperately need to find out what happened to this > Thomas Langford. I can't find any evidence of a marriage, of a death, or of > anything to suggest that he remained in the area. I suspect that he could > have been the same Thomas Langford that moved to Hollingworth in Cheshire > where he worked as a husbandman and later married Mary Sidebottom at > Mottram-in-Longdendale 1798. However my understanding of that occupation > was > that it was generally used to describe a tenant farmer with a permanent > lease of as much as 30 or 40 acres of land and inferred that the farmer had > been in the district for many years, perhaps even many generations; > although > I suspect that it could also be used to describe a simple farm hand. > > Either way it seems to be a long shot to claim that the two Thomas > Langfords > were the same person. If I could but find some evidence that Thomas of > Ashbourne stayed in that area it would at least enable me to discount him > as > being the one who went to Cheshire. I would have thought that there would > have been ample work within the family for him and little reason to move > away from what seems to have been a very successful family business at > Ashbourne. > > Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. > > Don Sutherland, > Melbourne, Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Darryl There are lots of maps online Just google inland waterways map Here are a few to be going on with http://www.canals.com/maps.htm This one is about the clearest I found so far <www.waterscape.com/media/documents/22605.pdf> Google each canal to get the history of it, when opened etc Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/03/2013 13:11, D & A Smedley wrote: > Some of my SMEDLEY ancestors were boatmen on the Trent at Sawley in the > 19th century. There is perhaps a very tentative link for them to Banbury > in Oxfordshire and I would like to know if there was any possibility of > regular river and canal traffic between these to parishes in the late > 1700's and the first half of the 1800's. > > I'm hoping that someone with a knowledge of the canal and river trade in > that broad time period will be able to help. > > Thank you > > Darryl > Sydney Australia

From: "Dennis Fflavell" <dennis@fflavell.freeserve.co.uk> > Am trying to find a marriage connection for BEECH and SALES. Pre > middle 19th century. > > BEACH is the middle name with SALES the surname and am guessing that > there is a previous BEECH marriage connection to SALES.> WILLIAM BEECH SALES, b Chesterfield RD March qtr 1845, m Chesterfield RD Dec qtr 1864, d Sheffield RD Dec qtr 1908 aged 63. His is the only entry that appears to fit your description at FreeBMD. FreeBMD has no marriage for BEECH-SALES or variants, therefore either his mother was not a Beech, the marriage was before 1837 or the connection is in an earlier generation, probably grandparents. The only William Sales b 1845 found in the 1851 entry that fits is William aged 6, scholar, b at Handley, living at West Handley, Staveley, with father also William Sales, two older siblings and grandmother Sarah Jackson, unmarried, aged 62. William senior is described as Sarah's son-in-law, thus I presume his wife (who was not present in 1851 though William is described as married) must have been a Jackson. FreeBMD has the potential marriage of William Sales to Mary Jackson at Chesterfield Rd in the Dec qtr of 1837 and this would appear to tie in with the first child, Christopher, b 1838. The marriage is confirmed at FamilySearch on 2 Oct 1837 at Dronfield of William Sales to Mary Jackson. Have I got the right scenario? If so, clearly, we need to look farther back and the 1851 census entry showing Sarah Jackson as unmarried indicates that Mary was illegitimate, so probably any Beech-Sales marriage would have been on William's line. However, I note that in the IGI marriage entry William's parentage is shown only as Mary Sales with no father shown which would suggest he was illegitimate too. Hmmm.....I begin to see the problem! My best suggestion is that William Sales snr was illegitimate but knew that his father was a Beech or Beach. Let's not forget that single women who gave birth to an illegitimate child very often gave a clue to the putative father by giving the child the father's surname as a middle name. Could this be the solution??? If it is the case, I fear you may never be able to find out where the name Beach/Beech came from unless you can find that Mary Sales took the father to court for maintenance. Have you looked at Poor Law/court records for the area? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

What a marvellous website - an inspiration to me - I hope to try and do something similar down here in Wiltshire. Alas no Crich ancestors myself. Nickie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Patilla" <ppatilla@mac.com> > > At long last I have started to update the BMD records for Crich website > > www.crichparish.co.uk . Just finished names starting with A. > I have a new motto: record in haste, interpret own handwriting for hours > thereafter. > Also added more photos and WW1 records. > Peter >

Charani wrote> Does anyone have any brickwall families whose surnames begin with B? I can't believe none of you have brickwalls :)) Oh Charani, I'm sure most of us do, perhaps we're all sitting back patiently for our letter to come up. I live a frustratingly long way away and am such an impatient old sod, can I slip in under A for Ashbourne - pretty please? My brick wall is Thomas Langford who was baptised 26 June 1768 at Saint Oswald, Ashbourne. His parents were William Langford and Sarah Peach and his grandfather was John Langford who I believe was the founder of a Langford family dynasty of builders who were renowned builders over four generations. Some of their buildings still stand around Ashbourne to this day. My brickwall is that I desperately need to find out what happened to this Thomas Langford. I can't find any evidence of a marriage, of a death, or of anything to suggest that he remained in the area. I suspect that he could have been the same Thomas Langford that moved to Hollingworth in Cheshire where he worked as a husbandman and later married Mary Sidebottom at Mottram-in-Longdendale 1798. However my understanding of that occupation was that it was generally used to describe a tenant farmer with a permanent lease of as much as 30 or 40 acres of land and inferred that the farmer had been in the district for many years, perhaps even many generations; although I suspect that it could also be used to describe a simple farm hand. Either way it seems to be a long shot to claim that the two Thomas Langfords were the same person. If I could but find some evidence that Thomas of Ashbourne stayed in that area it would at least enable me to discount him as being the one who went to Cheshire. I would have thought that there would have been ample work within the family for him and little reason to move away from what seems to have been a very successful family business at Ashbourne. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Don Sutherland, Melbourne, Australia

Hello Folk, I have a sign in Chinese on an old photo. Can anyone translate it into English? The sign is halfway down the webpage on www.eyemead.com/Mark.htm and entitled "Chinese Camp" An old friend of mine from Wirksworth, Derbyshire is near his end and has always wondered what the sign in Chinese says when he took the photo in Africa in 1971 Hopefully, John Palmer Author of Wirksworth website www.wirksworth.org.uk

Hello folks, Does anyone have acces to M.I's for St Mary's churchyard, Linton and would do a lookup for me, please? John T DUNNELL buried there 4th February 1928. His wife was Susanna COLLIER born Linton 1855 so he might be with her family. Thanks to Nivard who found his burial. Many thanks, Carole Noden, Kent, UK