My brickwall is Elizabeth HUDSON, born c1742 (calculated from her age at death in 1805) who married Thomas WAIN of Bradbourne at Kniveton on 1 March 1767 according to the parish register by licence. I don't think the licence, even if it survives, would tell me too much, as they are both over the age of 21 at their marriage. The witnesses do not help, they are not connected to either family as far as I can tell. The only HUDSON family in Kniveton at this time is an Ephraim HUDSON who is married to an Elizabeth. They first seem to appear in Kniveton around 1740 when their daughter Sarah is baptised followed by Ann in 1746, William 1749, Mary 1750, Moses 1752 and Hannah in 1758, therefore my Elizabeth would fit in very well into the gap between Sarah and Ann BUT I cannot find a baptism for her in the parish register. Ephraim and Elizabeth did not marry in Kniveton and Ephraim was not baptised there. There is a baptism for an Ephraim HUDSON in Chapel en le Frith c1717 which would fit in quite well and Ephraim is a relatively uncommon name. Ephraim signed a Declaration regarding the hiring of servants/workers in 1766 so I know he was still at Kniveton at that time, but I have nothing further on him or Elizabeth or their children (apart from the marriage of Elizabeth) after that date. Neither Ephraim nor Elizabeth were buried in Kniveton and none of their other children were married nor buried in Kniveton. Any help would be very gratefully received - there can't be too many Ephraim HUDSONs around surely!! Janet

On 2013/04/29 09:52, ann wrote: > I have found a record of a trial dated 1828 Derby assizes. > The man is given as sweep ( can reap ) > > Can anyone explain what the ' can reap' may mean please Uses a scythe to reap corn at harvest time. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi, I have one HAWKSWORTH in my tree and I know very little about her. Martha HAWKSWORTH married Edward ALLEN 10th June 1792 Ashbourne. Their first child was William b. Norbury and Roston 1793 and they had several children in Ashbourne between 1796 and 1814 (these baptisms need to be checked). I haven't been able to find baptisms or burials for either Martha or Edward. If anyone is able to help shed some light on the mysterious Martha I'd be very grateful. thanks, Angela

Hi Aileen Can you give the context and source please Are you absolutely sure thats what it says? Name and details may help, there may be other details to be found which may explain what it is Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 29/04/2013 08:52, ann wrote: > > > I have found a record of a trial dated 1828 Derby assizes. > The man is given as sweep ( can reap ) > > Can anyone explain what the ' can reap' may mean please > Aileen

 I have found a record of a trial dated 1828  Derby assizes. The man is given as sweep ( can reap ) Can anyone explain what the ' can reap'  may mean please Aileen

Hi, I visited Ilkeston Park Road Cemetery on Saturday, and finally found the grave of my Gt Grandfather George Frisby and his wife Mary Ann. I had been sent a photo of it via CWGC. Also commemorated on the tombstone is their son Thomas Frisby who died in 1915 in Caberet-Souchez, France. I know that Thomas Frisby was married and had 3 children I believe. My direct ancestor is my grandmother Lily Frisby and her siblings were Eliza, Thomas, William, Alice, May. I wonder if there is anybody else researching these Frisby's? If so I would love to make contact. Lin

It's also relatively common in some sections of the minority ethnic community today in the UK. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: derbysgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:derbysgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Thelma Heinrich Sent: 29 April 2013 05:01 To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] First cousin marriage in 1872 I have cousins that married to keep the family name in the inherited estate in Derby. My great grandfather's brother's daughter married a cousin of the same name. Go figure. Thelma, Scottsdale, AZ USA -----Original Message----- From: derbysgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:derbysgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Palmer Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:53 AM To: DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [DBY] First cousin marriage in 1872 Hello Folks, Horrified at finding a notable first-cousin marriage in Wirksworth in 1872, I looked up the matter in Wikipedia to find the following: "England maintained a small but stable proportion of cousin marriages for centuries, with proportions in 1875 estimated by George Darwin at 3.5 percent for the middle classes and 4.5 percent for the nobility, though this had declined to under 1 percent in the 20th century. Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were a preeminent example". The United States has the only bans on cousin marriage in the Western world. Regards, John Palmer, Dorset, England Author of Wirksworth website www.wirksworth.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Roy, a Joel JACKSON was baptised at Heage (or Duffield) Independent Chapel in 1800 (no bap date recorded but date of birth given as 18 Jun 1800), parents John and Mary of Duffield. You can find Heage Chapel registers at BMD Registers website, or The Genealogist website, or on film at a FHC or here in Derbyshire on film at Chesterfield Local Studies or Derbyshire Record Office in Matlock. I would lay a small bet that Matthew was Joel's elder brother but born before the Heage Chapel register starts in 1792. The same is perhaps true of John JACKSON, but the registers of all the CofE churches in and near Duffield would also be worth checking. Regards Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK On 28 April 2013 22:48, Roy Jackson <roy_jackson@rogers.com> wrote: > My g.g. grandfather Matthew born c. 1792 Belper, married Betty (Elizabeth) > Kenyon 2 April 1820 at Heage Independent. Witnesses John Jackson and Joel > Jackson, looking to find Matthew's parents and the relationship of John and > Joel Jackson to Matthew. Any help will be gratefully appreciated. > > Roy Jackson, > Mississauga, Canada. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Andy Just a quick reply as it is late but these folks appear in a 'tree' I did a couple of years back for a good friend. I have John HAWKSWORTH and Lydia RAINS having 10 children. I have some BRANDRETHs in there too, so am guessing they are the same families you mention? Get in touch if you think they are. They are all Mappleton/ Ashbourne area. Louise On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Andy <andy@rmcs.org.uk> wrote: > I hav a number of HAWKSWORTH ancestors from Mapleton/Ashbourne. I have > details of James Hawksworth bap. 21.4.1793 in Mapleton who married Mary > and was buried in Mapleton in 1856. His daughter Alice married into my > Brandreth line. The IGI suggests some other possible baptisms to James > and Mary in Parwich; I have found an 1851 census entry in Derby and one > for 1871 back in Ashbourne. > > James's father was John, born around 1754 (buried in Mapleton in 1836 > aged 82). I have baptisms in Mapleton for 10 children but no marriage > to his wife Lydia nor a baptism for John himself. > > If anyone has any more information on these Hawksworths, I'd be very > grateful. > > Andy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have just one HAWKSWORTH. She is my 3GGM, Elizabeth, who, in 1851, says she was born in Stanton by Dale (about 1771). She married Robert WESTON, (born 1862, Beeston, NTT), in Lenton, NTT, 1796. These two had seven children, notably the youngest, Friday WESTON, whom I've researched extensively. Interestingly, it was her unusual given name which gave me most of the clues. I know nothing definite about Elizabeth, except the fact she says she is born in Derbyshire, was a  seamstress and that she died in 1856 in Ockbrook. Various leads have been followed, the most hopeful being:- Thomas and Ann HAWKSWORTH, who had these chn in Stanton:- Sarah 1770, Jane 1771, Ann 1772, Jemima 1774 and Noah 1781. However, my theory, that this Jane might have preferred to be called Elizabeth, fell by the wayside  when I found she married Robert WARD in 1810. I suppose Sarah (if she preferred to be called Elizabeth!!) is a possible candidate, but I do feel that I'm  clutching at straws here. If anyone has spotted Elizabeth, I'd love to know about it. She's the only one of my 3GGP for whom I have no  parents. Kind regards Joy

I believe, off the top of my head, that I read there is only a 6% chance of birth defects when first cousins marry, hence it is only the United States that bans this. They have blood tests though, before marriage, so maybe it is just dependent on the results. I had a personal interest, since I had first cousins who married in my own family. Not found anyone 2-headed yet. Royals increasingly interbred, since there are a limited number of royals to choose from! :) Sue Researching GRUNDY in Derbyshire ---------------------------------------- > From: johnpalmer@wirksworth.org.uk > To: DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:53:18 +0100 > Subject: [DBY] First cousin marriage in 1872 > > Hello Folks, > Horrified at finding a notable first-cousin marriage > in Wirksworth in 1872, I looked up the matter in Wikipedia > to find the following: > "England maintained a small but stable proportion of > cousin marriages for centuries, with proportions in 1875 > estimated by George Darwin at 3.5 percent for the middle classes > and 4.5 percent for the nobility, though this had declined to under > 1 percent in the 20th century. > Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were a preeminent example". > The United States has the only bans on cousin marriage in the Western world. > Regards, > John Palmer, Dorset, England > Author of Wirksworth website > www.wirksworth.org.uk > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have cousins that married to keep the family name in the inherited estate in Derby. My great grandfather's brother's daughter married a cousin of the same name. Go figure. Thelma, Scottsdale, AZ USA -----Original Message----- From: derbysgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:derbysgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Palmer Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:53 AM To: DERBYSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [DBY] First cousin marriage in 1872 Hello Folks, Horrified at finding a notable first-cousin marriage in Wirksworth in 1872, I looked up the matter in Wikipedia to find the following: "England maintained a small but stable proportion of cousin marriages for centuries, with proportions in 1875 estimated by George Darwin at 3.5 percent for the middle classes and 4.5 percent for the nobility, though this had declined to under 1 percent in the 20th century. Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were a preeminent example". The United States has the only bans on cousin marriage in the Western world. Regards, John Palmer, Dorset, England Author of Wirksworth website www.wirksworth.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My g.g. grandfather Matthew born c. 1792 Belper, married Betty (Elizabeth) Kenyon 2 April 1820 at Heage Independent. Witnesses John Jackson and Joel Jackson, looking to find Matthew's parents and the relationship of John and Joel Jackson to Matthew. Any help will be gratefully appreciated. Roy Jackson, Mississauga, Canada.

I hav a number of HAWKSWORTH ancestors from Mapleton/Ashbourne. I have details of James Hawksworth bap. 21.4.1793 in Mapleton who married Mary and was buried in Mapleton in 1856. His daughter Alice married into my Brandreth line. The IGI suggests some other possible baptisms to James and Mary in Parwich; I have found an 1851 census entry in Derby and one for 1871 back in Ashbourne. James's father was John, born around 1754 (buried in Mapleton in 1836 aged 82). I have baptisms in Mapleton for 10 children but no marriage to his wife Lydia nor a baptism for John himself. If anyone has any more information on these Hawksworths, I'd be very grateful. Andy

Has anyone any information on the parents of JOSEPH HARRISON b. 1813 in Horsley Woodhouse m. Alfreton 1832 to Phebe Burgin d. in Sneinton Lunatic Asylum Nottingham in 1883. He is my GGGrandfather. He was a Framework Knitter in Horsley living at 5 Club Row Horsley Woodhouse in 1841 moving to Ilkeston then Awsworth as Glove Maker, a 'Higgler' and latterly a Rag and Bone Man? He may be the son of John Harrison and Melicent Annable who died in 1813 in Horsley (in childbirth?) Also is there any of the HARRISON Clan out there who have had their DNA tested? I am looking for matches within the I2b1 Haplogroup (now I2a2a). Any information on the HARRISON family at that time and in those places would be greatly appreciated.

Hello, My 5X Great Grandfather was Ebeneezer (Eber) Hill. I know he was married in Ashbourne (St Oswald's) in 1772 to Elizabeth Froggatt. He died in 1839 at the age of 93 years old and is buried in Brailsford. Amazingly the cause of death was "accidentally killed after being trampled by horses" I've been unable to find record of his baptism which was probably around 1746 and can't find details of his parents. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Martin

Time for the letters H, I and J. The only eligible H in my database is for Exey HAY(E)S bapt 12 June 1819. I don't have much on her other than she married James BAILEY in 1846 Chesterfield RD and had a minx of a daughter named Harriet. I have a vague recollection I should have more information on Exey. but I can't find it, probably the result of a freaky crash I had earlier in the year that wiped all my email accounts and bookmarks :( Anyone got any brickwalls with these names beginning with these letters? Even if no one has any immediate answers, someone not on the lists could pick up on the name from using a search engine. They can only do that if the information is out there to be found. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> > Hi John > > My only surprise would be if this was the first, cousin marriage you > have found > > I have several in my lines > > Not sure why you would be horrified as its perfectly legal > > Some States in the US bar it but far from all and even though some > States banned it, they still happened > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 28/04/2013 10:53, John Palmer wrote: > > Hello Folks, > > Horrified at finding a notable first-cousin marriage > > in Wirksworth in 1872, I looked up the matter in Wikipedia > > to find the following: > > "England maintained a small but stable proportion of > > cousin marriages for centuries, with proportions in 1875 > > estimated by George Darwin at 3.5 percent for the middle classes > > and 4.5 percent for the nobility, though this had declined to > under > > 1 percent in the 20th century. > > Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were a preeminent example". > > The United States has the only bans on cousin marriage in the > Western world. > > Regards, > > John Palmer, Dorset, England > > Author of Wirksworth website > > www.wirksworth.org.uk> First-cousin marriages were more common among the upper classes and the aristocracy in order to keep money, property and estates inside the family, rather than admitting outsiders. Apart from Victoria and Albert, the obviously outstanding example of a first-cousin marriage in the royal family was that of William III to Mary II - both were grandchildren of Charles I. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi John My only surprise would be if this was the first, cousin marriage you have found I have several in my lines Not sure why you would be horrified as its perfectly legal Some States in the US bar it but far from all and even though some States banned it, they still happened Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/04/2013 10:53, John Palmer wrote: > Hello Folks, > Horrified at finding a notable first-cousin marriage > in Wirksworth in 1872, I looked up the matter in Wikipedia > to find the following: > "England maintained a small but stable proportion of > cousin marriages for centuries, with proportions in 1875 > estimated by George Darwin at 3.5 percent for the middle classes > and 4.5 percent for the nobility, though this had declined to under > 1 percent in the 20th century. > Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were a preeminent example". > The United States has the only bans on cousin marriage in the Western world. > Regards, > John Palmer, Dorset, England > Author of Wirksworth website > www.wirksworth.org.uk

John Palmer wrote: > Hello Folks, > Horrified at finding a notable first-cousin marriage > in Wirksworth in 1872, I looked up the matter in Wikipedia > to find the following: > "England maintained a small but stable proportion of > cousin marriages for centuries, with proportions in 1875 > estimated by George Darwin at 3.5 percent for the middle classes > and 4.5 percent for the nobility, though this had declined to under > 1 percent in the 20th century. > Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were a preeminent example". > The United States has the only bans on cousin marriage in the Western world. Hallo I believe it is only certain States that have a total ban. Others discourage such marriages. Cousins who wish to marry go to a State which allows first cousin marriages. I have just found two mid 19th century first cousin marriages in a family I'm researching at the moment. They are not the first I have found. The decline in first cousin marriages is probably due to people moving around more and meeting people from different parts of the country. I don't think it's due to any repugnance at marrying someone quite closely related. The only first cousin marriages that might cause any birth problems might be where both the bride's and the groom's parents were also first cousin or where two brothers had married two sisters from otherwise unrelated families. Connie in London