Morning all At long last I have started to update the BMD records for Crich website www.crichparish.co.uk . Just finished names starting with A. I have a new motto: record in haste, interpret own handwriting for hours thereafter. Also added more photos and WW1 records. Brick walls: wondering whether to join Don Sutherland's club of "impatient old sods" (I fulfil the criterion) or to wait until the letter P comes around. Peter

I realize this is a long shot and that there are a huge number of Langfords in Derbyshire but are you related to the Langfords in Higham, Belper and Chesterfield? I have Sarah Langford b c1831 in Higham, died 24 Jan 1861 in Hammersmith, Ripley. She married Thomas Frederick Wood Wilmott 12 Jun 1848, Crich Parish. Sarah's father was Joseph Langford b c1808 in Chesterfield, died 1877 in Belper. Mother Ellen Hardy b 1811, d 1847. Here's hoping there is a connection. Noreen Victoria, Canada On 2013-03-11, at 6:16 PM, Don Sutherland wrote: > Charani wrote> Does anyone have any brickwall families whose surnames begin > with B? I can't believe none of you have brickwalls :)) > > > Oh Charani, I'm sure most of us do, perhaps we're all sitting back patiently > for our letter to come up. I live a frustratingly long way away and am such > an impatient old sod, can I slip in under A for Ashbourne - pretty please? > > My brick wall is Thomas Langford who was baptised 26 June 1768 at Saint > Oswald, Ashbourne. His parents were William Langford and Sarah Peach and his > grandfather was John Langford who I believe was the founder of a Langford > family dynasty of builders who were renowned builders over four generations. > Some of their buildings still stand around Ashbourne to this day. My > brickwall is that I desperately need to find out what happened to this > Thomas Langford. I can't find any evidence of a marriage, of a death, or of > anything to suggest that he remained in the area. I suspect that he could > have been the same Thomas Langford that moved to Hollingworth in Cheshire > where he worked as a husbandman and later married Mary Sidebottom at > Mottram-in-Longdendale 1798. However my understanding of that occupation was > that it was generally used to describe a tenant farmer with a permanent > lease of as much as 30 or 40 acres of land and inferred that the farmer had > been in the district for many years, perhaps even many generations; although > I suspect that it could also be used to describe a simple farm hand. > > Either way it seems to be a long shot to claim that the two Thomas Langfords > were the same person. If I could but find some evidence that Thomas of > Ashbourne stayed in that area it would at least enable me to discount him as > being the one who went to Cheshire. I would have thought that there would > have been ample work within the family for him and little reason to move > away from what seems to have been a very successful family business at > Ashbourne. > > Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. > > Don Sutherland, > Melbourne, Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Am trying to find a marriage connection for BEECH and SALES. Pre middle 19th century. BEACH is the middle name with SALES the surname and am guessing that there is a previous BEECH marriage connection to SALES. Regards Dennis FLAVELL

I have a whole swarm of Battersbys in the Whitwell area, but my brickwalls are 2 of them. My 6x great-grandfather was PETER BATTERSBY - I have his death date in 1758, but no birth date or marriage date. He was married to Alice, no surname known, their first child was born in 1745. Peter's father was JOHN BATTERSBY - again, I have a death date (1744) but no birth or marriage dates. He was married to Ann, again no surname known, who died in 1729, and then Alice (why don't these people leave their surnames behind, lol) - John & Alice had a child Thomas born in 1743. Any help would be very much appreciated :-) Linda -- Check out my Family Tree at www.tribalpages.com/tribes/lindak53

Hi, I'm looking for more details of my 5th Great-grandmother Ann BUNTIN, she married Thomas CANTRELL in Ashbourne (14th Aug 1753), according to my records they went on to have six children in North Wingfield. Does anybody have details of her birth place, father, mother, siblings etc. Thanks Jon Cantrill -- My family tree - RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: C A N T R I L L http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=astridhq

My brickwall is Thirza Birch, baptized 25 feb 1821 at Belper, illegitimate daughter of Mary Birch. When Thirza was 2 Mary married Thomas Shorthose at Crich. Mary died in 1836 in Belper. There is a group of Birches buried at the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Belper in the 1820s but whether they are all the same family I can't say. John and Ann Birch had a daughter Thirza in Belper in 1819 who died so it might be a reasonable inference that Mary's Thirza was called after that Thirza and therefore Mary was sister to the first baby Thirza? Marie

Whilst having a much-needed "chuck-out" (again) I have come across a long list of male Waters/Walters marriages in the whole of Derbyshire ..if anyone would like a look-up please contact me..Rita in a very snowy Germany..

My GGrandmother was Mary BARBER of Chapel en le Frith/Chinley who married James HOLLINGWORTH at Glossop church in Nov 1895. I have taken Mary`s ancestors back to Thomas BARBER and Hannah GREEN who married in Chapel en le Frith on the 5 Nov 1776. I know that Thomas was born around 1749 as he is shown to have been aged 72 in the burial register when he died in 1822 - burial at Chinley Independent Chapel. I have not been able to find Thomas`s baptism. best wishes Marjorie Ward Derbyshire, UK Sources for Disley; Lyme Handley; Taxal & Whaley www.disley.net Sources for Hollingworths www.hollingworths.net Sources for NWDby incl Chapel; Charlesworth; Chinley; Fernilee; Glossop; Hayfield; Hope Valley; Mellor & New Mills http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dusk John Ward Paintings: www.johnward-art.com

I would welcome any further information on the BESTWICK family which marries into both my GILLOTT and CUTTS families in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.    They were part of a group of stocking makers involved with the improvement of machines during the volatile period of Luddite riots, etc.   They were Non-Conformists, Primitive Methodists and possibly Unitarians.     Elizabeth Bestwick m. Samuel Gillott at Heanor in 1783.   Thomas Bestwick m. Elizabeth Street  4.4. 1789  at  Radford.St.Peter  William Bestwick m. Elizabeth Maxfield   22.11.1832 at Sneinton St. Stephen - children born in France c 1844-52 Mark Bestwick (bc1805m. Mary Ann Levers) 19.8.1832  at  Basford St. Leo's Mark Bestwick (bc 1839.   d.1881-91) married/lived with  Sarah Ann Cutts c1865/6   Nottingham Joseph, brother of Mark, b. 1845, a waiter in 1881 at 19 Skinner St. with Sarah Ann and Mark.   I have found Bestwicks living very close to my own gt. grandparents in the Birkin Avenue area of Hyson Green so know that they kept in touch over the generations. I would like to fill in gaps if anyone else is researching these families. Mavis.

Moving on to the letter B. In my case this is Harriet BAILEY who was a bit of a handful! <G> She was born Q2 1859 Pilsley, Derbys, d of James BAILEY and Exey (nee HAYES). She first married John ATKINSON (out of area), then became involved with my 2xgreat uncle, Mark PARKER before moving on to George Henry DUTY. I've not found a marriage for Harriet to Mark. I suspect there wasn't one. I'd also like to find James BAILEY's parents. He was born around 1826 allegedly in Chesterfield Has anyone stumbled over the BAILEYs? Does anyone have any brickwall families whose surnames begin with B? I can't believe none of you have brickwalls :)) -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

I wonder if I could ask someone living in Matlock to send me a photo of the White Peak Farm Butchery on Smedley Street in Matlock?! I can't find a picture online and would like to put it alongside the story of the shop which used to be my Grandfather WALTER ASH's shoe shop. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of when it was his shop, just the empty shop as it was for a number of years after my Uncle RAY ASH left it. Google maps still has the image with the empty shop and clearly shows the W.ASH & SONS old wooden sign above the door. A few years back when we took my mother to see the butcher's shop, and we asked what happened to the sign, I think the gentleman said his wife was keeping it!!! If someone wouldn't mind, perhaps when they next go to buy their sausages, I'd really appreciate it!!! And if anyone knows where I can find a photo of the shoe shop, I'd really love that! Many thanks -- Rose Kelland (nee Street) www.rosescountryrose.blogspot.com www.livesandtimesofbella.blogspot.com

Can think of no reason for 2 birth certificates, can anyone else suggest. Mother had just died 1881, Father away working in the relatively new Notts / Derby coalfield. Was there a rift in the family as what to do with the two children ? Perhaps with grandma ONIONS on one side and aunt MOFFITT on the other, both doing what they thought best for May and in fact Benjamin Job. Would have thought in these particular circumstances that the adoption would have been through or too a family member; though perhaps maybe directly from the workhouse orphanage to Canada as a British Home Child, though of this I can find no definite road or trace. With regards Dennis FLAVELL -----Original Message----- From: Christine Benson Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 10:25 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A Hi Dennis, I presume your May is the one spelt FLAVEL. She seems to have been registered twice so does that mean there is something about the "adoption" on one of the birth certificates. Have you tried getting hold of both of them and/or finding the reason for the double registration? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Fflavell Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 7:36 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A From: Dennis Fflavell Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 4:55 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A Seeking info on May FLAVELL born 1881 Walsall, Staffs. Her Mother Mary Jane FLAVELL prev. MANDER, nee ONIONS, died 2 months after birth; father Job FLAVELL working away in the Notts / Derby coalfield. He later re-married and lived Clay Cross. May FLAVELL said to have been ‘adopted’ and taken to Canada whilst her brother my grandfather Benjamin Job FLAVELL put into a workhouse / orphanage. My grandfather re joined his father Job by 1891 in Clay Cross in time to go down the pit and he himself to marry Annie LOWE in Calow.. Have hit my brick wall with gt. aunt May FLAVELL. Regards Dennis FLAVELL – Cambridgeshire ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Charani and Christine. The birth certificates show s May FLAVELL though research often shows variant spellings. One spelling on passenger lists shows a LAVELL. After much research I think that the name was changed on the 'adoption' and have looked for surnames of relatives. Not sure how long May would have remained in England. The story told of her brother, my grandfather Benjamin Job (sometimes Job Benjamin) FLAVELL is that on death of his mother in Walsall, he was placed into a Workhouse or Orphanage untill re-joining his father in 1911 Clay Cross. I've been a member of the British Home Child List group for some years and followed without success a number of leads. I have the two birth certificates for May FLAVELL, her mother died in the Birmingham Rd. 'Hospital', Walsall. The first birth certificate was reg. by May's aunt surnamed MOFFITT and sister of the mother. Three weeks later the 2nd birth certificate was registered by May's grandmother, (mother of the mother) Rebecca ONIONS. With regards Dennis FLAVELL -----Original Message----- From: Christine Benson Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 12:30 AM To: Charani ; derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - FLAVEL Thank you Charani. I knew there was no legal adoption at the time. That's why I put the word in quotes, as did Dennis. But I didn't know what might have caused re-registration. I still think it would be interesting to know the reason. Also some censuses in Canada have the DOB on. It might be worth investigating all the May's in Canada with that birth date. But it might prove a large task. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Charani Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 12:08 AM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Christine Benson Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - FLAVEL Christine Benson wrote: > Hi Dennis, > > I presume your May is the one spelt FLAVEL. She seems to have been > registered twice so does that mean there is something about the "adoption" > on one of the birth certificates. Have you tried getting hold of both of > them and/or finding the reason for the double registration? The 'a' after the page number indicates there was an amendment to the original entry. There was no legal adoption until 1927 when the orginal certificate would mention the adoption. Before then there were private arrangements that were more akin to our modern fostering arrangements so wouldn't be mentioned. The usual reasons for a re-registration would be where the mother of an illegitimate child named the father on the certificate (with a little tinkering with her own name) which was later removed, a correction to the date of birth, place of birth, a parent's name or the father's occupation. The first reason is not applicable in this instance because the mother was married. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Charani, According to my research, Francis and Ann ASBURY's first child was not Hannah, but John bapt. 23 Feb 1812 at Walton-on-Trent. They went on to have a total of nine children. Ann died at Boro Hill, Walton-on-Trent and was buried at Walton on 24 October 1874, aged 90. This suggests that she was the Ann HOLDEN baptised 22 Aug 1784 at Rosliston, daughter of Christopher and Hannah HOLDEN. Francis ASBURY was, I believe, the son of Richard ASBURY (c1757-1821) and Rebecca/Rebekah PEACE (1756-1851), who were married at Croxall on 2 September 1782. Rebecca was possibly baptised on 15 Nov 1756 at Burton-upon-Trent, daughter of Francis and Elizabeth PEACE. If you want more about these families, please contact me privately, as I have details of several generations, and would be keen to add your line to the mix. Regards and best wishes, Brett Payne Tauranga, New Zealand On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Charani <charani.b@gmail.com> wrote: > To start the ball rolling with my 3x great grandfather was Francis ASBURY. > > He was baptised 22 Apr 1787 at Walton on Trent. His father was > Richard but I don't have his mother's name, nor his marriage to an Ann > of Rosliston who was baptised around 1785. > > There is a marriage on FamilySearch of a Francis ASBURY of Walton on > Trent who married Ann HOLDEN on 21 Oct 1811 at Walton on Trent which > fits with the birth of their first child, Hannah in 1813. But was Ann > HOLDEN from Rosliston or was that another Ann? > > -- > Charani (UK) > OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, > Greinton and Clutton, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you Charani. I knew there was no legal adoption at the time. That's why I put the word in quotes, as did Dennis. But I didn't know what might have caused re-registration. I still think it would be interesting to know the reason. Also some censuses in Canada have the DOB on. It might be worth investigating all the May's in Canada with that birth date. But it might prove a large task. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Charani Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 12:08 AM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Christine Benson Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - FLAVEL Christine Benson wrote: > Hi Dennis, > > I presume your May is the one spelt FLAVEL. She seems to have been > registered twice so does that mean there is something about the "adoption" > on one of the birth certificates. Have you tried getting hold of both of > them and/or finding the reason for the double registration? The 'a' after the page number indicates there was an amendment to the original entry. There was no legal adoption until 1927 when the orginal certificate would mention the adoption. Before then there were private arrangements that were more akin to our modern fostering arrangements so wouldn't be mentioned. The usual reasons for a re-registration would be where the mother of an illegitimate child named the father on the certificate (with a little tinkering with her own name) which was later removed, a correction to the date of birth, place of birth, a parent's name or the father's occupation. The first reason is not applicable in this instance because the mother was married. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Brett Payne wrote: > Hi Charani, > > According to my research, Francis and Ann ASBURY's first child was not > Hannah, but John bapt. 23 Feb 1812 at Walton-on-Trent. They went on to > have a total of nine children. I have eight children for them. I'm missing John, who was born four months after the marriage - oops! :)) > Ann died at Boro Hill, Walton-on-Trent and was buried at Walton on 24 > October 1874, aged 90. This suggests that she was the Ann HOLDEN baptised > 22 Aug 1784 at Rosliston, daughter of Christopher and Hannah HOLDEN. I was given some information that indicated Francis married twice and had a son Francis by both wives and both sons survived. One of them had a son Francis and a dau Frances. All the Francis/Frances have been tying me in knots. > Francis ASBURY was, I believe, the son of Richard ASBURY (c1757-1821) and > Rebecca/Rebekah PEACE (1756-1851), who were married at Croxall on 2 > September 1782. > > Rebecca was possibly baptised on 15 Nov 1756 at Burton-upon-Trent, daughter > of Francis and Elizabeth PEACE. Thank you for that. > If you want more about these families, please contact me privately, as I > have details of several generations, and would be keen to add your line to > the mix. I'll do that, thanks. I've had a computer crash since I last looked at this family and I know I've lost some data. I'll sort out what I have and see what I can add. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Christine Benson wrote: > Hi Dennis, > > I presume your May is the one spelt FLAVEL. She seems to have been > registered twice so does that mean there is something about the "adoption" > on one of the birth certificates. Have you tried getting hold of both of > them and/or finding the reason for the double registration? The 'a' after the page number indicates there was an amendment to the original entry. There was no legal adoption until 1927 when the orginal certificate would mention the adoption. Before then there were private arrangements that were more akin to our modern fostering arrangements so wouldn't be mentioned. The usual reasons for a re-registration would be where the mother of an illegitimate child named the father on the certificate (with a little tinkering with her own name) which was later removed, a correction to the date of birth, place of birth, a parent's name or the father's occupation. The first reason is not applicable in this instance because the mother was married. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi Dennis, I presume your May is the one spelt FLAVEL. She seems to have been registered twice so does that mean there is something about the "adoption" on one of the birth certificates. Have you tried getting hold of both of them and/or finding the reason for the double registration? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Fflavell Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 7:36 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A From: Dennis Fflavell Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 4:55 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A Seeking info on May FLAVELL born 1881 Walsall, Staffs. Her Mother Mary Jane FLAVELL prev. MANDER, nee ONIONS, died 2 months after birth; father Job FLAVELL working away in the Notts / Derby coalfield. He later re-married and lived Clay Cross. May FLAVELL said to have been ‘adopted’ and taken to Canada whilst her brother my grandfather Benjamin Job FLAVELL put into a workhouse / orphanage. My grandfather re joined his father Job by 1891 in Clay Cross in time to go down the pit and he himself to marry Annie LOWE in Calow.. Have hit my brick wall with gt. aunt May FLAVELL. Regards Dennis FLAVELL – Cambridgeshire

From: Dennis Fflavell Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 4:55 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A Seeking info on May FLAVELL born 1881 Walsall, Staffs. Her Mother Mary Jane FLAVELL prev. MANDER, nee ONIONS, died 2 months after birth; father Job FLAVELL working away in the Notts / Derby coalfield. He later re-married and lived Clay Cross. May FLAVELL said to have been ‘adopted’ and taken to Canada whilst her brother my grandfather Benjamin Job FLAVELL put into a workhouse / orphanage. My grandfather re joined his father Job by 1891 in Clay Cross in time to go down the pit and he himself to marry Annie LOWE in Calow.. Have hit my brick wall with gt. aunt May FLAVELL. Regards Dennis FLAVELL – Cambridgeshire -----Original Message----- From: Charani Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 2:15 PM To: derbysgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [DBY] Brickwall demolition - A The list has been quiet of late so let's wake it up a bit. Everyone has brickwalls: those ancestors who are out to be Hide & Seek Champions of the World. Have a look and see if you have any elusive ancestors whose surnames begin with A. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DERBYSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To start the ball rolling with my 3x great grandfather was Francis ASBURY. He was baptised 22 Apr 1787 at Walton on Trent. His father was Richard but I don't have his mother's name, nor his marriage to an Ann of Rosliston who was baptised around 1785. There is a marriage on FamilySearch of a Francis ASBURY of Walton on Trent who married Ann HOLDEN on 21 Oct 1811 at Walton on Trent which fits with the birth of their first child, Hannah in 1813. But was Ann HOLDEN from Rosliston or was that another Ann? -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Ashcott, Shapwick, Greinton and Clutton, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk