Just wanted to be sure nobody missed the cousin's wedding announcement in the Picayune. Click here: DeGruy/Morton

> Hello, Celine! > > I'm not sure how these lists thread, so I hope this gets connected to your > post. > > neil.johnson@acsalaska.net writes: > > >> I used to think the spelling Degruise was due to the fact the the >> recorder >> of a particular document was Spanish, but that's just a hunch. >> > > I did a search for DeGruy names in Louisiana and about ten other states and > I was surprised to find that after DeGruy (or deGruy) the second most popular > spelling by far is DeGruise. I had thought it would be DeGruys or DeGruis > because I have seen that so often in the old St. Charles records. I had > always assumed that DeGruise was an anglosized version of the pronunciation of > deGruys which I thought was the original French spelling. As you know, in > French the final s would not be pronounced, so that deGruy or deGruys or deGruis > would all be pronounced the same, and people were very careless about > spelling. Any English speaker coming along, however, would see that name written > and pronounce it duh-greeze (br-r-r-r-r! shudder! <g>) and then write that > pronunciation as DeGruise. Is that how the DeGruise folks pronounce it in New > Orleans? > > Of course, I just made those assumptions off the top of my head without any > research whatsoever because deGruys is not one of my family names (except as > the first husband of my Aufrere ancestress). Now you have caused me to think > about this! I would have to look at all the original handwritten records, > knowing the native language of the writer, and tally the spellings of the name > in order to evaluate your Spanish theory. > > If we had some people from New Orleans on this list, we could ask them to > check to be sure that such a linguistic analysis of the name in Louisiana does > not already exist. Sounds like a great master's dissertation to me and it > may just be waiting, leatherbound, in the modern languages section of the > Tulane library! I will put that on my library list for my next trip to the city. > > Ann > > P.S. Do you know an Oscar DeGruy in Anchorage? > >

only kids trying to tease us called my brothers and sisters and I degroo (or degrooey) As Isabel says, in New Orleans, the name is pronounced degree - like the temperature celine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Degruy List Admin" <degruylist@earthlink.net> To: <DEGRUY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:02 AM Subject: Re: Pronounciation of DeGruy > a clue to this might be the French pronunciation of the word for > "crane".... hoping along with Isabel that there is a Frenchman out there > who can help... I think I'll also send this to my Hotard cousin in > France.... maybe he can help! > R. > > Isabel wrote: > > >Hello fellow researchers,. > > > >As with any proper name (surname) , the "owner" is free to pronounce it the way he/she desires. Besides, in the past people were never consistent in the spelling, so we may never know what was the "correct" way to pronounce DeGruy back then. > > > >Growing up in New Orleans, my family always pronounced DeGruy like "degree". Again I do not speak French, so I am not sure if this is correct. I have heard it called "Degrease", but never DeGroo before. Is there a Frenchman out there who could clarify this? Did the name become Americanized over time? > >This makes for an interesting discussion. > > > >Happy Researching, > >Isabel > >gathrightaw@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Fabulous email, Shelley, thank you so much! So much in it that I can only respond now to the computer part...... When mine crashed and I bought a new Apple laptop with wireless [big :-) ], I bit the bullet and paid the bucks to have our local Apple store transfer the contents of my hard drive onto my new computer. I'm sure I lost some things...but I also saved much. Retrieving the contents of mail has proved more difficult. Again, I've gotten a lot, but... how would I ever know what I've lost.. until I need it and go to look for it and it's not there! I would think that the folk trying to sell the latest version of Family Tree Maker would be more than happy to guide you in the technical questions! Re the Degruy plantations.... that's the first I've heard about Audubon Park. Fascinating. There is a map in, of all places, the genealogy dept. in St. Louis which shows the Mississippi and the plantations along the river... and DeGruy shows up [rather near the Destrehan plantation] on the ... what is the other side of the river called in New Orleans -- West bank???? But the famous 'batture' controversy.... and I will soon send you my collection of emails on that topic, make it sound like a Degruy plantation was in the area where the convention center is now on the East bank. One of my earlier questions was centered around these various plantations and if they had the fanciful kind of names like "Oak Alley", and what are some of the others? Evergreen, Magnolia, Rosedown.... etc.... or if they were just known as the Degruy plantations. Anyway there is so, so much to talk about! And, I have to warn you, I'm entering a period which will last about 7 weeks where non-genealogy responsibilities are going to gain ascendancy.... so I may be quieter than usual! [Thank God for small blessings!!!] R > >

a clue to this might be the French pronunciation of the word for "crane".... hoping along with Isabel that there is a Frenchman out there who can help... I think I'll also send this to my Hotard cousin in France.... maybe he can help! R. Isabel wrote: >Hello fellow researchers,. > >As with any proper name (surname) , the "owner" is free to pronounce it the way he/she desires. Besides, in the past people were never consistent in the spelling, so we may never know what was the "correct" way to pronounce DeGruy back then. > >Growing up in New Orleans, my family always pronounced DeGruy like "degree". Again I do not speak French, so I am not sure if this is correct. I have heard it called "Degrease", but never DeGroo before. Is there a Frenchman out there who could clarify this? Did the name become Americanized over time? >This makes for an interesting discussion. > >Happy Researching, >Isabel >gathrightaw@worldnet.att.net > > > > > > > >

Hello - I've been out of town the last week and so am just now catching up with what I've missed. Thank you for the list of web sites. I have come across a few of the same in my own researching, but how nice to have them listed for us. I see we are trying to agree on the correct pronunciation of both de Gruy and Verloin. As my grandmother's maiden name was Verloin de Gruy, and Karma can add to this as it is still her current name (Remember Karma's great grandfather was my grandmother's brother), I will tell you how our family has always been told it was pronounced and spelled. 1. Verloin is not pronounced like the steak - sirloin - but rather a difficult way - Verl is said with almost a silent r and the Verl virtually comes out sounding more like Val. The second half of the name is more like a baby's waah, with the n also silent as there is no e at the end of the word. (Remember in French, the last letter of any word is not pronounced unless it is followed by an e or has an accent over it) 2. de Gruy is the way we, and generations back, have spelled the name. The "de" signifying exactly from where the family comes, such as in the Count de Gruyeres, or the Marquis de Circe (I can't add accents in email but that is pronounced seersay) Because the "y" is pronounced, but there is no "e" at the end of the word, then I am guessing that the original Swiss spelling with an "e", as in Gruyere is why we still pronounce the "y." One reason for the various spellings is that birth certificates were hand written and kept in the parish church or the church in which a baby was christened. The same was done for marriage certificates, etc. Unfortunately, these were often recorded incorrectly by the priest or nun doing the writing, making the tracking of a specific name difficult. I have found that these old churches sometimes burned down leaving someone down the road making a new certificate and again often misspelling the names. Louisiana, being populated by French, Acadian and Spanish meant the spelling of names sometimes were by hearing it and then spelled by that individual's own language rules. I have a confirmation certificate for one relative, from Ursaline Academy, dated 1857 with her name spelled 2 different ways on the same certificate. In researching my father's side of the family, I found that those who came through Ellis Island had entire names changed because the recording person couldn't understand the language being used by the immigrant. In that case it is extremely helpful to know the name of the town, province or in the case of Scandinavia, the farm from which a relative came. That was frequently mistaken as their last names. One last observation, another tidbit of a story, from emails of the last week. The brothers who accompanied d'Iberville to LA were the Foucher boys whose father was the Marquis de Circe, a small town on the Swiss/French border, not that far from Gruyeres. It was their sister, Felicite, or Felicie, who married a Francois Verloin de Gruy I (I think he was the 1st) in New Orleans, who is one of our direct ancestors (Karma's and mine for sure). As I don't know where everyone else comes in on the family tree at this point, I'm not sure where they would fit in your line. Unfortunately, I am going on memory as, Renee, I, too, have had my computer crash and am at the frustrating point where I can't access any of my genealogy files, which had become rather extensive. I had merged the de Gruy / Gaiennie / Foucher / Fazende (Spanish) names and had well over 2000 names in the tree. Of course, many of those were not truly a direct line from me back but are totally fascinating and represent enormous amounts of time, as I know all of you can understand. Here's my question. I am fairly computer challenged. I am buying new software that I'm hoping will let me access my files. The files are there I just can't get to them. They were entered in Family Tree Maker several years ago, the original software was loaned to another family member, who shall remain un-named as he lost the disks. The software I'm buying is the newest Family Tree Maker. Does anyone know if my old files will be compatible with the newer version software? I am absolutely at my wit's end trying to fix this without losing everything. I suppose this is long enough so I will end it here. But I have a book that documents the interesting story that a de Gruy owned a plantation that is now Audubon Park in NO. I'd heard that story all my life, but frankly never believed it. My next email will have the specific names and info on that, unless of course, all of you are ahead of me and already know about this. Good to be back and read everything. This is wonderful, I think, and has renewed my determination to get all my info in a readable narrative form for my children and grandchildren. I appreciate all of you responding to this new list and especially to you, Renee, for getting it started. I feel like this is the first "family reunion" we've ever really had - now there's a thought! Shelley -----Original Message----- From: Degruy List Admin [mailto:degruylist@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:37 AM To: DEGRUY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: 2 threads: changes for website listings & pronunciation and spelling of Degruy Hi, Two threads [I and II] for this posting: Thread I Now that I've sent out that list of Degruy websites, corrections are coming in. I'll post these changes to this list as they come in. And, if and when we get our Degruy Website going, I'll post an edited list on it. Please keep in mind that I simply listed all the websites that came up when I searched the surname. I have not corresponded with the each of people who post these websites, nor can I personally recommend them or attest to the data contained therein...... Also, I have noticed that a lot of the email addresses listed for these websites are duds. And the websites themselves get updated and their addresses change. For example I posted an older version of our own Celine's website. Apologies, Celine. Her updated website address is below. So would you please edit your copies as follows. And, please, continue to let me know when I've posted outdated material. 1) Please change Celine's website to: www.geocities.com/celinemarie 2) Please delete the Denise Caron [Caron Braun] website. Thread II On another note -- Regarding pronunciations.... I've heard [but hardly ever remember to do this myself] that I shouldn't pronounce Degruy like a college "degree".... but to say De Groo [rhymes with shoe]..... Is that correct or incorrect? Regarding spellings: Also I've never understood the variations in spelling and I see, just within members of this list, various spellings: Degruy, De Gruy, de Gruy, etc etc. It seems pretty much a "free for all" when it comes to the way the name appears....so I suspect there are no guidelines for this? That's it... Renee ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi, Two threads [I and II] for this posting: Thread I Now that I've sent out that list of Degruy websites, corrections are coming in. I'll post these changes to this list as they come in. And, if and when we get our Degruy Website going, I'll post an edited list on it. Please keep in mind that I simply listed all the websites that came up when I searched the surname. I have not corresponded with the each of people who post these websites, nor can I personally recommend them or attest to the data contained therein...... Also, I have noticed that a lot of the email addresses listed for these websites are duds. And the websites themselves get updated and their addresses change. For example I posted an older version of our own Celine's website. Apologies, Celine. Her updated website address is below. So would you please edit your copies as follows. And, please, continue to let me know when I've posted outdated material. 1) Please change Celine's website to: www.geocities.com/celinemarie 2) Please delete the Denise Caron [Caron Braun] website. Thread II On another note -- Regarding pronunciations.... I've heard [but hardly ever remember to do this myself] that I shouldn't pronounce Degruy like a college "degree".... but to say De Groo [rhymes with shoe]..... Is that correct or incorrect? Regarding spellings: Also I've never understood the variations in spelling and I see, just within members of this list, various spellings: Degruy, De Gruy, de Gruy, etc etc. It seems pretty much a "free for all" when it comes to the way the name appears....so I suspect there are no guidelines for this? That's it... Renee

Hello the list! I am VoorhiesAnn@AOL.com in Gulfport, MS, and I'm happy to join the list. Looks like I am the closest one to New Orleans at the moment! I will not be averse to making a few research trips to the Big Easy if anyone has specific tasks to request. Renee and I have been emailing for some months and I have told her that I would be interested in researching the DeGruy ancestry in France along with the Aufrere ancestry. The following paragraphs are from a message I recently sent her. > I am not descended from DeGruy, but from his widow's second husband DuSuau > who was also a French military officer with an aristocratic background. I > was lucky enough to contact a person in France who supplied me with the DuSuau > lineage back to the middle ages-- information apparently found in a library > in Paris. I will search through those boxes of old papers as soon as I get > unpacked again, and will see if we can make a contact in France who will help > us. There are probably DeGruy descendants there yet who are interested in the > descendants of the younger son who went off to New France and died there. > > Just some thoughts of my own first. If he was a younger son, which surely > he was or he would never have left France, then the properties and places for > which he was named (Verloin, Menil, Fouchard) would have been minor family > holdings or holdings of his mother's family. Although those place names will > add meat to the story, they should not be a distraction, and it is best to > research any DeGruy name found in France. > > While we are searching for DeGruy, please let's keep an eye out for Aufrere > and the fact that we may find the families connected, even in France. Those > aristocrats did not marry for love and were very conscious of family > connections. This Aufrere girl married not one, but two titled Frenchmen, so, even > if she was a looker, her parents must have had some real connections. I > wonder what the story is about their leaving France? I have found some Aufreres > who were Hugenots and left France for England. So first, would each one of you relate exactly what information you have found on the ancestries of both Antoine VV DeGruy and Marie Therese Aufrere? Then I will begin to contact some people I know in France. Of course, I can't promise anything, but I have had some real successes in getting information from France about my duSuau, Fagot, Capdeville, and deBlanc ancestors, as well as my Pelichet ancestors in Switzerland, and I am hopeful that I will be as lucky this time. And I have not spent money for anything but postage! We must be patient though because sometimes it takes months and even years for these investigations to produce, but when we do get results, then we will organize a trip to Paris to see the old homestead. <g> It is very pleasant to meet you all. Ann

Hello, I thought I'd add some thoughts on my understanding of the DeGruy name. Growing up as Celine Marie Verloin deGruy, I often had to explain away the funny second middle name and the reason I had a "little d" in my last name. My family history says that Verloin (sounds like a baby crying - val-wanh) was our family name and Gruy was the region in France our ancestors came from (de, meaning "of.") During one of my cemetary visits in New Orleans, I was quite surprised to find that some of the women who had married into the deGruy family, also took the name Verloin (basically inheriting both names) and family members used Verloin on the tombstones of those women. A book I found at the library in Salt Lake City, titled The Village of Chartres in Colonial Illinois (edited by Margaret Kimball Brown and Lawrie Cena Dean) in the section of the book consisting of English translations of records dealingwith real estate records has an entry as follows from April 4, 1746: "Was present Mr. Antoine Valentin Degruyverloin, Lord Dumenil Fouchard, Ecuyer de la Folie, officer of a company of infantry of the detatchment....." In several of the early Louisiana Catholic church records, the names Verloin and Degruy are cross-referenced. I used to think the spelling Degruise was due to the fact the the recorder of a particular document was Spanish, but that's just a hunch. Celine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Degruy List Admin" <degruylist@earthlink.net> To: <DEGRUY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:32 PM Subject: Degruy names and spellings > Good Morning All, > > I've been looking through my Louisiana: An Illustrated History by C. E. > Richard this morning and I came across this quote: "Pierre Le Moyne, > sieur d'Iberville, was thirty-seven years old when he led four ships and > two hundred men from France to the shores of tghe Gulf of Mexico. His > brother, Jean Baptiste Le Moyne, sieur de Bienville, was only > eighteen.".... And that got me thinking about the DeGruy, Degruy, de > Gruy, De Gruy, Degruys, Degruise, De Gruyse ; DeGruis ; De Gruis e ; De > Gruysverloin ; Berloin ; DeGruys ; DeGruis ; Duffouchar DeGruys, [and > all other seemingly infinite variations]; along with Dufouchar, > Dufouchard, Duminy, Dumenil [more infinite variations, spellings]..... > and wondering, how are we ever going to make sense of all this.... and > we haven't even begun to consider Verloin.... [and how Do you pronounce > that..? Verloin [like pork loin] or Verl lwhenh.......????? I wish I > could "beam up, beam back/forward" someone from the 1700's and have them > instruct us on pronunciation and meaning. > > When I first started to focus on my De Gruy line, I asked various > genealogy email-pen pals this question about the recurring > Verloin/Dufouchar/Dumini names in conjunction with De Gruy and I got a > variety of responses.... So for your edification, and because this list > has been so very quiet for awhile, I'm going to include them here > [keeping in mind that when my computer crashed some time back, I'm sure > I lost a lot of their responses.]. > > Here are a few of the comments I received in answer to my queries: > > > We'll start with two responses from Stanley [omitting last names of > those who are not active on our list] > > 1) > >Renee, > > > >I've solved the mystery re Dufouchar[d]. Antoine Valentin De Gruy > >Verloin's TITLE was Sieur Dumenil-Fouchard from France. > > > >He was born about 1717 and died abt 1759 [right after being promoted to > >Captain]. He served in the Illinois Region. His widow, who was from the > >German Coast, married Joseph Dussault [several spellings] de la Croix in > >1760 who was another military officer from France. > > 2) Renee, > > Sieur is a Title with roughly the same meaning as Sir for knighted > persons in England. Antoine's father was the Mayor of Paris. > > Dumenil and Fouchard are surnames and locations. One is the Sieur of > something like an Earl. The family name for the Earl of Lauderdale in > England is Maitland. Lauderdale was a region. > > St. Louis was founded in 1764 and many also went to New Orleans. > Chatillon was another Title that probably married into the Demenil line > and created the double surname. > > Where was your grandfather born? Who was his wife? > > Stanley ....... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Now Stanley's answer made me think about a mansion in St. Louis and I > wrote to him: "PS I was really curious about that Sieur > Dumenil-Fourchard... because here in St. Louis there is the > Chatillon-DeMenil Mansion": > > "OVERVIEW -- The Mansion was built in two sections by families with > very different lifestyles. Henri Chatillion built the first portion, a > four-room brick structure, in 1848. He was a guide and a hunter for the > American Fur Company of St. Louis in the 1840's before settling > permanently in the area with his second wife, Odile Delor Lux. -- Three > generations of the DeMenil family occupied the home until 1929. " > http://stlouis.missouri.org/501c/house-museum/#demenil > ------------- > I'm just throwing this in because there are a lot of New Orleans/St. > Louis connections. Kaskaskia is just down the road, as is Fort de > Chartres.... all connected with our De Gruys. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Here's one from Audrey: > >I haven't done any work on the Verloin De Gruy family but in Lafaourche > >Parish (where I live) it is known as Degruise. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From Shiela > > Phil ... forwarded your message about the DeGruys family to me since I > live near New Orleans. In your message you asked why one branch had > the middle name of Dufouchar(d) and the other Verloin. First of all, > I'd like to let you know that I am not related to this family and do not > have any extensive information on the family. > > I went to the local library in a suburb of New Orleans and looked in the > Archdiocese of New Orleans books which (if you aren't familiar with > them) are books being published by the Catholic Church of their > marriage, death, and baptism records. In there I found that the name is > listed as DUFOUCHARD DEGRUYS and VEROLIN DEGRUYS. The Dufourchard and > Verolin are not "middle names". There are many family especially in the > New Orleans area who seem to have added additional names to their > original surnames. In your DeGruys family, it seems to have been done > to distinguish one branch of the family from another branch. > > There is an Antoine o DeGruys who is listed as a native of Illinois who > married a Henriette Laysard who is listed as a native of the Port of Las > Arcas (Arkansas). Antoine probably moved to Illinois for a while before > coming or returning to New Orleans. He and his descendants seem to have > added the Dufourchard to the DeGruys name . > > Another branch of the family remained in or came to Louisiana and lived > in the St. Charles and St. James area which is to the north or maybe the > northwest of New Orleans. Joseph Verolin DeGruys seems to be the first > of this branch of the family which added Verolin to the DeGruys name. > By the way, the name is mentioned several times in Conrad's books which > he published on the acts in those parishes but there's no additional > hint of why one child added Verolin to his name. > > I hope this helps you understand why there seems to be two different > names in your family who can be traced back to common parents. > > Sheila ... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From Jerry, > > Unfortunately, I do not have the parents of Jean Baptist Antoine > Valentin Verloin de Gruy, born about 1720 in Paris, France, died July > 1759 in Kaskaskia, Illinois. He was married to Marie Therese d'Aufrere, > born December 29, 1728 in Dauphine, Alpes De Haute, France. Marie > Therese died Aft. December 17, 1792. They were married about 1745 in New > Orleans. Jean Baptiste Antoine Valentin Verloin de Gruy is a 5th and 6th > great-grandfather of my wife, Karen Diane Delahoussaye. His full name > was Jean Baptiste Antoine Valentin, Ecuyer, Verloin De Gruy, Lord > Dumenil Fouchard, Duke of France, Ecuyer, de la Folie. He was described > as a "native of Paris" and a "native of Versailles." I take that to mean > that he was born in the palace of Versailles. I have to admit, I have > not focused on finding his parents, but I'm sure they would reveal a > fascinating story. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Ok.... well I think there were more... may have lost them during my > crash.... but if I find any, I'll send separately. > > Here's a question.... if these names really did signify lordships or > some other category of dignitary, why don't they show up on websites or > in articles on websites? I spent a long time on line today searching out > items like: Lord Dumenil Fouchard, etc... and other than bring up some > individual names or genealogy websites, I came up fairly empty handed. > Any ideas on this? > > Another thing I've been working on are those websites. Rather than wait > till they are complete... which may be never.... I will send them on > soon and we can all keep adding to them. > > Renee > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Here's an email exchange between Jerry Freyder and me in response to the thread about various Degruy names and spellings: Gerald Freyder wrote: Hi Renee, On the different variations of the name de Gruy, I cannot tell you the origins of Verloin, Dufourchard, etc. I can, however explain my wife's surname, and let you draw conclusions from it. Karen's maiden name is Delahoussaye. As I research farther back, I find that the first Delahoussaye in Louisiana was Paul Augustin le Pelletier sieur de la Houssaye, who was an officer in the French military, Just as Antoine Verloin de Gruy was. If you go back into France, the family name was le Pelletier. de la Houssaye appears to have been an "estate" name, because not all le Pelletier's were de la Houssayes. Some used the name le Pelletier de Chateaupoissy. Paul Augustin le Pelletier, sieur de la Houssaye's wife was Magdaleine "Victoire" Petit de Livilliers. Further research reveals that the "family" name was Petit. Paul Augustin's grandfather was Nicolas le Pelletier Lord de la Houssaye. His great grandfather was Nicolas le Pelletier Lord de Chateaupoissy. An educated guess on my part would be that Antoine de Gruy's "family" name is Verloin. All the other additions and variations would probably be estate names. I would search for Verloin first. Perhaps I will do a little looking myself. Jerry Freyder From Renee in response to Jerry: Well this is very interesting. I've been spending my early morning researching Huxelle.... Of all the Degruys, I've seen that name [Huxelle] only once.... so I've been surfing the net for all variations.... trying to figure out why he was named Pierre Huxelle DeGruy. [by the way does your wife have a "Guerin" line? There was one site in which Guerin and Huxelle appeared together.] I have a similar [naming] problem on my maternal side....which is also driving me nuts: my GG Grandfather... who is found in various LEGAL documents with his name written....Pierre or Lapeyre Durand..... and Durand Lapeyr, Durand Lapeyre.... etc. I can see how recorders of various certificates, census records... would get names confused, misspell, etc. But Legal Documents? [Wouldn't they be a little more careful with those????] All along I have my G Grandmother listed as Leonie Durand [marriage names: Witzman, Kelley]. However in her mother's legal succession all the names have been flipped around and she and all her daughters appear as Lapeyres. So now it's Leonie Durand Lapeyre. This is so frustrating. Who were they....? Durands or Lapeyres? Lapeyre was a butcher in New Orleans, so I doubt he had any kind of "estate" in France. By the way, you aren't enrolled in Degruy-L, so may I copy your response [below] to the list so they can benefit from your expertise? In a way, taking the estate name makes a certain sense. Centuries before the internet, an estate name would certainly have more recognition than a personal last name. Thanks... I always enjoy hearing from you. Renee ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi.... forwarding an email exchange between Isabel and me...which should have gone to the whole list.... Isabel wrote: > Hi Renee, > I saw this on my cousin, Lynette Slaughter Vinet's site. This > Huxexelle is being used by the Nogues family before they married into > the DeGruy family. Note this Pierre Huexelle Felix Nogues born in > 1822 and married Lisa Dufouchar DeGruy probably about 1845 as > indicated by the birth year of the children. This is confusing, was > the Huexelle DeGruy you were looking for born after 1845? Maybe this > Huexelle was not part of the DeGruy family name originally, but came > into use after this marriage? I said that I had never seen the name > before in the DeGruy line, but here it shows up in the Nogues family. > Can you explain that? > Isabel > > # ID: I0958 > # Name: Pierre Huexelle Felix NOGUES > # Sex: M > # Birth: 17 DEC 1822 in New Orleans, Louisiana > # Death: 14 JUN 1852 in New Orleans, Louisiana > > Father: Francois Pierre NOGUES > <http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lvinet&id=I0957> > b: 1796 in St. Sene, Bayonne, France > Mother: Louise LEPREVOST > <http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lvinet&id=I0956> > b: 1803 in New Orleans, Louisiana > > Marriage 1 Lisa Dufouchar DEGRUY > <http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lvinet&id=I0968> > b: 1820 in New Orleans, Louisiana Children > > 1. Zachary George Marc NOGUES > <http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lvinet&id=I0969> > b: 22 MAR 1847 in New Orleans, Louisiana > 2. Henry Allen NOGUES > <http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lvinet&id=I0970> > b: 20 NOV 1850 in New Orleans, Louisiana > Renee Wrote: Well, Pedro [Peter, Pierre depending upon record] Huxelle Degruy was born 12 March 1817. I have his baptismal record but not his birth record. In fact, I can't find him in any state/ city birth records.... I have his death as 11 Sep 1883. I do have this record. His parents were Pedro [Pierre Dufouchard Verloin?] Degruy and Azelia [Marie Azelie Daspit de St. Amand] Now one of P. H.'s sister's name was Luisa Verloin [27 Feb 1827] That could easily have been Luisa Dufouchar Verloin DeGruy the way they coupled all of these names. I don't know who she married and if it's the same as the Lisa below... but she could have named her child after her brother. Or if the Lisa below was the daughter of Luisa Verloin then she could have named her child after her uncle. What do you think? R

Hi, There's been some confusion about how to write to the list. I use the email address degruylist@rootsweb.com to post my messages to the list. If I have sent a message and you just hit "reply" there is a chance that only I will receive your reply-message. If you want your message to go to the whole list... then degruy-l@rootsweb.com has to appear in the address window. Hope that helps. Renee Hotard [Bennett] ps in the future I may just sign Renee Hotard since that is the line I'm always concerned with when doing my own genealogy research

Hi, As promised here is a listing of miscellaneous websites having to do with "De Gruy" I'm hoping you all will add to the list with your own entries. Eventually, if we develop a web site, we can devote a page to links. Renee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MISCELLANEOUS DEGRUY WEBSITES BONNIE BESS WOOD'S SITE: http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&db=beebeewood&surname=D CELINE MARIE DEGRUY JOHNSON'S WEBSITE http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/o/h/Celine-M-Johnson/index.html DEGRUY TOMBS AT DEADSPACE: http://cml.upenn.edu/nola/Searchpgs/L0Introtombsrch_detailname.asp?RECORD_KEY[tomblist]=PNTHNOC%2CARCHDIOC%2CGIN%2CStreet%2CIDName%2CFirstDate&PNTHNOC%5Btomblist%5D=18&ARCHDIOC%5Btomblist%5D=BS%201&GIN%5Btomblist%5D=9W-1&Street%5Btomblist%5D=Basi&IDName%5Btomblist%5D=Degr&FirstDate%5Btomblist%5D=1838 DEGRUY AT MYTREES.COM http://www.kindredkonnections.com/cgi-bin/nextpedsf?11057683+000000+English+0-0+0+1 DEGRUY AT ONEGREATFAMILY.COM http://www.onegreatfamily.com/surname/DEGRUY?AID=9781992&PID=595199#searchResultsAnchor BAUDIER FAMILY HISTORY CONTAINS SOME DEGRUY ENTRIES http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=hfkendrick&id=I988 MARY ANN RICHARD WEBSITE CONTAINS SOME DEGRUY ENTRIES http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1413873&id=I793 NOTRE DAME ARCHIVES Diocese of Louisiana and the Floridas1576-1803 http://archives1.archives.nd.edu/mano/18000919.htm ERIC ODEN'S WEBSITE http://www.genealogy.com/users/o/d/e/Eric-P-Oden/?Welcome=1093817658 PORTRAIT OF PIERRE VERLOIN DEGRUY http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/o/d/e/Eric-P-Oden/PHOTO/0001photo.html PARISH COURT INDEX FOR "D" http://nutrias.org/~nopl/inv/vcp/parishd.htm Louisiana. Court of Probates (Orleans Parish) General Index of All Successions, 1805 - 1846 http://www.nutrias.org/~nopl/inv/probates/iasd.htm Louisiana. First Judicial District Court (Orleans Parish). Suit Records, 1813-1835. http://www.nutrias.org/~nopl/inv/1jdc/p1jdc.htm JOHN FULLER'S GENEALOGY RESOURCES ON THE INTERNET WEB SITE http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail_surnames-dee.html#DEGRUCHY MARY ANN RICHARD'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=:1413873&recno=781 HELEN KENDRICK'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=hfkendrick&recno=558 THOMAS BLANCHET'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2277700&id=I503888115 ANN VOORHIES WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=grannyannie&recno=745 UNKNOWN http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=:a25023&recno=494 DENISE CARON'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=dhcaron&recno=24829 RICK COILA'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=coilabuckley&recno=751 MATT SANDERS/ MAD VINTNER'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=madvintner&id=I04556 JENNIFER BELL'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=:891875&recno=527 SUSAN KNIGHT'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=:2873417&recno=4113 KATHI PAYNE'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=:2873417&recno=4113 GRETCHEN KRAFT-COSTANZA'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=:2873417&recno=4113 LYNETTE VINET'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=lvinet&recno=487 DEAN PORTIER'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=dean_portier&recno=492 DENISE TALBOT'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=denisetalbot&id=I12176 BROOKE OZENNE'S WEBSITE http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=brookeoz&id=I409 TRAVEL WEBSITES: http://www.gruyeres-hotels.ch/chevaliers/en/c-hotel.htm http://www.st-georges-gruyeres.ch/pages/index.php?type=4&language=EN http://www.gruyeres.ch/ The next one is a web cam with live views of Gruyeres! http://www.pave-gruyeres.ch/webcam/ http://www.chateau-gruyeres.ch/ http://www.petit-train.info/English.htm http://www.gruyere.com/ http://www.gruyere.org/gruyeres/ http://www.mrfs.net/trips/2002/Switzerland/Gruyeres/Gruyeres.html next is a beautiful website: http://spaceformusic.com/switzerland/gruyeres.html

Good Morning All, I've been looking through my Louisiana: An Illustrated History by C. E. Richard this morning and I came across this quote: "Pierre Le Moyne, sieur d'Iberville, was thirty-seven years old when he led four ships and two hundred men from France to the shores of tghe Gulf of Mexico. His brother, Jean Baptiste Le Moyne, sieur de Bienville, was only eighteen.".... And that got me thinking about the DeGruy, Degruy, de Gruy, De Gruy, Degruys, Degruise, De Gruyse ; DeGruis ; De Gruis e ; De Gruysverloin ; Berloin ; DeGruys ; DeGruis ; Duffouchar DeGruys, [and all other seemingly infinite variations]; along with Dufouchar, Dufouchard, Duminy, Dumenil [more infinite variations, spellings]..... and wondering, how are we ever going to make sense of all this.... and we haven't even begun to consider Verloin.... [and how Do you pronounce that..? Verloin [like pork loin] or Verl lwhenh.......????? I wish I could "beam up, beam back/forward" someone from the 1700's and have them instruct us on pronunciation and meaning. When I first started to focus on my De Gruy line, I asked various genealogy email-pen pals this question about the recurring Verloin/Dufouchar/Dumini names in conjunction with De Gruy and I got a variety of responses.... So for your edification, and because this list has been so very quiet for awhile, I'm going to include them here [keeping in mind that when my computer crashed some time back, I'm sure I lost a lot of their responses.]. Here are a few of the comments I received in answer to my queries: We'll start with two responses from Stanley [omitting last names of those who are not active on our list] 1) >Renee, > >I've solved the mystery re Dufouchar[d]. Antoine Valentin De Gruy >Verloin's TITLE was Sieur Dumenil-Fouchard from France. > >He was born about 1717 and died abt 1759 [right after being promoted to >Captain]. He served in the Illinois Region. His widow, who was from the >German Coast, married Joseph Dussault [several spellings] de la Croix in >1760 who was another military officer from France. 2) Renee, Sieur is a Title with roughly the same meaning as Sir for knighted persons in England. Antoine's father was the Mayor of Paris. Dumenil and Fouchard are surnames and locations. One is the Sieur of something like an Earl. The family name for the Earl of Lauderdale in England is Maitland. Lauderdale was a region. St. Louis was founded in 1764 and many also went to New Orleans. Chatillon was another Title that probably married into the Demenil line and created the double surname. Where was your grandfather born? Who was his wife? Stanley ....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now Stanley's answer made me think about a mansion in St. Louis and I wrote to him: "PS I was really curious about that Sieur Dumenil-Fourchard... because here in St. Louis there is the Chatillon-DeMenil Mansion": "OVERVIEW -- The Mansion was built in two sections by families with very different lifestyles. Henri Chatillion built the first portion, a four-room brick structure, in 1848. He was a guide and a hunter for the American Fur Company of St. Louis in the 1840's before settling permanently in the area with his second wife, Odile Delor Lux. -- Three generations of the DeMenil family occupied the home until 1929. " http://stlouis.missouri.org/501c/house-museum/#demenil ------------- I'm just throwing this in because there are a lot of New Orleans/St. Louis connections. Kaskaskia is just down the road, as is Fort de Chartres.... all connected with our De Gruys. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's one from Audrey: >I haven't done any work on the Verloin De Gruy family but in Lafaourche >Parish (where I live) it is known as Degruise. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Shiela Phil ... forwarded your message about the DeGruys family to me since I live near New Orleans. In your message you asked why one branch had the middle name of Dufouchar(d) and the other Verloin. First of all, I'd like to let you know that I am not related to this family and do not have any extensive information on the family. I went to the local library in a suburb of New Orleans and looked in the Archdiocese of New Orleans books which (if you aren't familiar with them) are books being published by the Catholic Church of their marriage, death, and baptism records. In there I found that the name is listed as DUFOUCHARD DEGRUYS and VEROLIN DEGRUYS. The Dufourchard and Verolin are not "middle names". There are many family especially in the New Orleans area who seem to have added additional names to their original surnames. In your DeGruys family, it seems to have been done to distinguish one branch of the family from another branch. There is an Antoine o DeGruys who is listed as a native of Illinois who married a Henriette Laysard who is listed as a native of the Port of Las Arcas (Arkansas). Antoine probably moved to Illinois for a while before coming or returning to New Orleans. He and his descendants seem to have added the Dufourchard to the DeGruys name . Another branch of the family remained in or came to Louisiana and lived in the St. Charles and St. James area which is to the north or maybe the northwest of New Orleans. Joseph Verolin DeGruys seems to be the first of this branch of the family which added Verolin to the DeGruys name. By the way, the name is mentioned several times in Conrad's books which he published on the acts in those parishes but there's no additional hint of why one child added Verolin to his name. I hope this helps you understand why there seems to be two different names in your family who can be traced back to common parents. Sheila ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Jerry, Unfortunately, I do not have the parents of Jean Baptist Antoine Valentin Verloin de Gruy, born about 1720 in Paris, France, died July 1759 in Kaskaskia, Illinois. He was married to Marie Therese d'Aufrere, born December 29, 1728 in Dauphine, Alpes De Haute, France. Marie Therese died Aft. December 17, 1792. They were married about 1745 in New Orleans. Jean Baptiste Antoine Valentin Verloin de Gruy is a 5th and 6th great-grandfather of my wife, Karen Diane Delahoussaye. His full name was Jean Baptiste Antoine Valentin, Ecuyer, Verloin De Gruy, Lord Dumenil Fouchard, Duke of France, Ecuyer, de la Folie. He was described as a "native of Paris" and a "native of Versailles." I take that to mean that he was born in the palace of Versailles. I have to admit, I have not focused on finding his parents, but I'm sure they would reveal a fascinating story. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ok.... well I think there were more... may have lost them during my crash.... but if I find any, I'll send separately. Here's a question.... if these names really did signify lordships or some other category of dignitary, why don't they show up on websites or in articles on websites? I spent a long time on line today searching out items like: Lord Dumenil Fouchard, etc... and other than bring up some individual names or genealogy websites, I came up fairly empty handed. Any ideas on this? Another thing I've been working on are those websites. Rather than wait till they are complete... which may be never.... I will send them on soon and we can all keep adding to them. Renee

Hi, I have photocopies of the documents Carolyn so kindly sent; however, the problem is not just the French but the Handwriting! I can muddle through some of the French tool... but trying to tackle the French through the handwriting is Tough! However, if the topics cover anything that anyone is seriously looking for I suppose we should tackle this! R. Karma wrote: > I can read French (slowly!). > > Karma >

Hi, Got this from Carolyn Tregre.... if anyone finds it helpful: Went to the Clerk's office today and finished looking at the index. I will mail to you a list of what all I found--just to keep for future reference when I get back from vacation week after next. I did copy two documents: One is a Sale in 1777 from Antoine Blanc to Verloin Degruy. I can't read the French so I don't know what it was. It was the earliest entry I found for V. Degruy. The second is a Marriage Contract from 1793 between Pierre St. Pe and Hortense Degruys. Kind of hard to read but I am certain she is a relative. I am putting thse in the mail tomorrow AM. Hope someone on the list can translate for you (or are you, maybe) the one who can read French?? Enjoy. Carolyn

Wow... this list has been quiet for a long time. Anybody out there???? Here are some entries from the Family History 1880 Census. My question is.... did the NO De Gruys have an Alabama connection? 28. Oscar DE GRUY <http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/census/individual_record.asp?INDI_CODE=1880US%5F11726282%5F0&lds=5&region=0&regionfriendly=&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&regionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=> - 1880 United States Census / Alabama Self Gender: Male Birth: <1842> LA 29. Joseph DE GRUY <http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/census/individual_record.asp?INDI_CODE=1880US%5F11726282%5F1&lds=5&region=0&regionfriendly=&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&regionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=> - 1880 United States Census / Alabama Brother Gender: Male Birth: <1850> LA 30. Margaret DE GRUY <http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/census/individual_record.asp?INDI_CODE=1880US%5F11726282%5F2&lds=5&region=0&regionfriendly=&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&regionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=> - 1880 United States Census / Alabama SisterL Gender: Female Birth: <1859> AL 31. Evalina DE GRUY <http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/census/individual_record.asp?INDI_CODE=1880US%5F11726282%5F3&lds=5&region=0&regionfriendly=&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&regionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=> - 1880 United States Census / Alabama Niece Gender: Female Birth: <1878> AL 32. John DE GRUY <http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/census/individual_record.asp?INDI_CODE=1880US%5F11726282%5F4&lds=5&region=0&regionfriendly=&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&regionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=> - 1880 United States Census / Alabama Nephew Gender: Male Birth: <1880> AL My next question is.... could that Evalina be Julie Eveline Boutté DeGruy who was married to Pedro Huxelle DeGruy before he married my GG Grandmother, Marie Cecelia Cunningham? I haven't been able to find Julie's death date in the actual records. I have found it in various individual's research. oh oh... just noticed the date below... so that Evalina can't be the same. 41. Julia Evelina Boutte, born 15 May 1823 in New Orleans, LA; died 28 February 1862. She was the daughter of Francois Thisapherne Boutte and 83. Marie Eulalie St Pé. I'm also curious to find the names of Julie and Pedro's children. I'd really like to know how long it was after Julie's death that Pedro married Marie Cecelia. I suspect that both Pedro and Marie brought children to their marriage and may have had only one child together: Albert Joseph, my Great Grandfather.... But I haven't been able to "prove" this yet. Nor have I been able to find out what happened to Marie Cecelia's previous husband, Paul A. Brandon. He had a less than distinguished military career... think he was dishonorably discharged....and then he just disappears. [But I think he has a DeGruy connection!] Can't tell if he died or moved away.... or if he and Marie were divorced. I actually have a long line of thought around all of these circumstances. I'm writing it up as a kind of essay or narrative, including a time line. I'd run it by you all, but I'm afraid I'd bore you out of your skulls. It does involved a lot of sleuthing and deductions. I guess I could submit it and then leave it up to you to delete it. If nothing else you'd see how very hard I'm working on this!!! Well... just letting you know that I'm still alive. Hope you all are too! Renee

Hi, This name "Huxelle" is bugging me. It is the middle name of Pierre [Pedro] Huxelle DeGruy who was married first to Julie Eveline Boutté and then to my Great Grandmother Marie Cecelia Cunningham [Brandon] ... although I have still to prove this for sure.... But, what about Huxelle? I've never seen that in relation to any other DeGruy ever.... Have any of you? I've done general searches on it and come up with nothing. Anyone have any ideas???? Renee

I sent this some time ago to several email pen pals... before there was a Degruy-L... but thought some of you might like to know too Hi, Check this out..... http://cls.louisiana.edu/ I'm getting the 3 Conrad books on St. Jean Baptist Parish, St. Chas Parish and the German Coast.... 3 for $40...[big hardbound books] That's quite a sale, in case you are interested. They have lots of titlesl. Hope they have some of these left Renee

Well, apologies... but the email that I got from Mary had a chart in it.... which should have showed up at the beginning of that email I just sent to you....I don't know how you received it, but the chart didn't show up in mine....just entries with big spaces between them. So I'm not sure what you got [at least at the beginning of that email] is going to make much sense. Not sure how to handle this..... I could save as a .pdf if you really need it... but I'd have to send it to you off list, as we are not supposed to put attachments on our submissions to the list. So .... let's say that if it seems important to your research, contact me offlist and I'll figure out a way to send it to you as an attachment. Renee