John, Benjamin Daniel married Margaret Brown in Caroline County, VA on 8 Sep 1790. This is documented in "Marriages of Some Virginia Residents, 1607-1800," Series I, Vol. 2, compiled by Dorothy Ford Wulfeck and published 1963:Naugatuck, Conn. (page 216); in "Forks of Elkhorn Church" by Ermina Jett Darnell, 1980:Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore (page 117). Benjamin's wife is also identified in papers filed in Mercer County, KY courthouse, said papers entitled "A Division Of Land Between Part of Benjamin Daniel's Heirs," Book 12, pages 161-163, Mercer County Will Books. Coleman Daniel is identified as Benjamin and Margaret's son in these same papers. Admittedly, the documentation identifying Benjamin as a son of William Daniel and Mary Snead is shaky, which is why I have always been careful to point out the weaknesses. In the Madison, IN public library are papers, in the Daniel Family Folder of their genealogical section, which appear to have been copied from a family Bible. I can't be sure of this, as none of the current staff (or current when I was there in 1990) have any knowledge of how the library came into possession of the papers. That said, the papers themselves contain the following entries: Page 1: Under the heading of "DEATHS:" "William Daniel departed this life 11th of March 1817 and was buried at John Yeatman's in Franklin Co. Ky. Mary Daniel departed this life 11th of December 1789 in Caroline County, Virginia." "Tabitha Buckner departed this life, September 19th 1838. "Benjamin Daniel departed this life at his residence in Mercer Co. Ky. May 19th, 1843, age 74 yrs. 7 mos. 1 day. ... "Margaret Daniel, mother of Coleman Daniel, departed this life in Mercer Co. Ky. Feb. 15th 1857." Page 2: Under the heading "BIRTHS:" "William Daniel was born in Caroline Co. Virginia Mar. 1st 1734. Salie Daniel was born in Caroline Co. Virginia Jan. 15th 1756 Benjamin Daniel was born in Caroline Co. Virginia Oct. 18th 1769." Page 3: Under the heading of "MARRIAGES:" "William Daniel was married to Mary Snead, daughter of John Snead of Caroline Co. Virginia on the 6th day of April 1764. Benjamin Daniel was married to Margaret Brown Jan. 1, 1790 in Caroline County, Virginia [the year is correct, but the day of the marriage varies substantially from the official records.]." As I said, this last document is at best secondary (or even fourthly) information, and as such is not very strong. I have never been able to find any record of William Daniel's purported marriage to Mary Snead. It is well documented in histories of the area that John Snead operated a tavern near the mill operated by William Daniel at this time. I have also found, in "Virginia Publick Claims, Caroline County," transcribed and compiled by Janice L. Abercrombie and Richard Slatten, published by Iberian Publishing Co., Athens GA (page 24) the following: "Sneed, Mary assne of Wm. Daniel 180# beef 1-17-6." Since these "Publick Claims" were submitted to the U. S. government as Revolutionary War claims, it seems that either 1)this was a different Mary Sneed than the one William Daniel married; or 2)William Daniel and Mary Sneed were never married and Benjamin was illegitimate. This is the basis for my statement the he might have been illegitimate. At this point, I have no idea. No, I have no DNA support, since I know of no living, unbroken male line of this branch. Obviously, I'm not. The last surnamed Daniel in my line was my great-grandmother, Virginia Wickliffe Daniel, who married John King Weyer in Madison, IN on 14 Oct 1873. She was the daughter of William A. Daniel, a grandson of Benjamin. In any case, I think the evidence suggests that Benjamin Daniel was a son of one of the (many) William Daniel's. Along with many other people, I sincerely hope that some day it can be established which William Daniel, but until then, I think my documentation is as good as anyone has been able to find so far...and I don't think I'm "wearing my family on my sleeve." I have conducted a lot of research in my family lines, and where I think the evidence is shaky, I am very careful to point it out. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] The Old Fence Sitter > Bill, > Read what I said -- I said that was Payne's name for your families > DANIEL line, at least at one time and that is still how I still carry it. > My definition of "mess" means your family is questionable and while you may > think you know who your ancestors were, you do not seem to have a lot of > early documentation for this line, do you? > I think you said in one post, you thought your DANIEL ancestor was a > illegitimate son of one of these DANIELS, did you not? That, in itself, > makes your line rather questionable to me. Do you have any DNA support for > this assignment or is this just a hypothesis? > Let me explain something to some of you. I know it is hard for some not > to "wear their families on their sleeves" but that is not how historical or > genealogical research is best handled. None of this is personal and if you > make it so, then you are just hurting yourself in the search for the truth. > I never made any point about where your family located except to say > that many families who migrated to KY from VA or TN also later crossed the > Ohio River into OH. IN and IL. Are you trying to tell me your family > crossed over into IN without first crossing the Ohio River? Just exactly > where was I in error in this statement? > I also think you will find that any significant "permanent" migration to > IN or those points west of OH would probably have been after the War of > 1812, because the British led Indians were really working over the American > inhabitants who lived to the west of a north-south line passing through the > Cincinnati, OH area during the War of 1812. And, IN is to the west of OH, > so if they lived in the IN area during the War of 1812, it would have been a > rather risky endeavor, unless they wanted their scalps to end up being sold > in Detroit. Afterwards, a little easier. > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA >

Bill, I am not anything close to an expert on those KY DANIEL folks. I know the GA bunch pretty well but stay out of "hoss country" up in Kentucky as often as possible. I did notice the Darnell name associated with one of your marriage record sources. Did you know that DARNELL sometimes later became DANIEL? I know this happened in Morgan County, GA, as the story goes........ John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Brewer" <wwb@ix.netcom.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] The Old Fence Sitter > John, > Benjamin Daniel married Margaret Brown in Caroline County, VA on 8 Sep 1790. > This is documented in "Marriages of Some Virginia Residents, 1607-1800," > Series I, Vol. 2, compiled by Dorothy Ford Wulfeck and published > 1963:Naugatuck, Conn. (page 216); in "Forks of Elkhorn Church" by Ermina > Jett Darnell, 1980:Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore (page 117). > Benjamin's wife is also identified in papers filed in Mercer County, KY > courthouse, said papers entitled "A Division Of Land Between Part of > Benjamin Daniel's Heirs," Book 12, pages 161-163, Mercer County Will Books. > Coleman Daniel is identified as Benjamin and Margaret's son in these same > papers. > > Admittedly, the documentation identifying Benjamin as a son of William > Daniel and Mary Snead is shaky, which is why I have always been careful to > point out the weaknesses. In the Madison, IN public library are papers, in > the Daniel Family Folder of their genealogical section, which appear to have > been copied from a family Bible. I can't be sure of this, as none of the > current staff (or current when I was there in 1990) have any knowledge of > how the library came into possession of the papers. That said, the papers > themselves contain the following entries: > > Page 1: > Under the heading of "DEATHS:" > "William Daniel departed this life 11th of March 1817 and > was buried at John Yeatman's in Franklin Co. Ky. > Mary Daniel departed this life 11th of December 1789 in > Caroline County, Virginia." > "Tabitha Buckner departed this life, September 19th 1838. > "Benjamin Daniel departed this life at his residence in Mercer > Co. Ky. May 19th, 1843, age 74 yrs. 7 mos. 1 day. > ... > "Margaret Daniel, mother of Coleman Daniel, departed > this life in Mercer Co. Ky. Feb. 15th 1857." > > Page 2: > Under the heading "BIRTHS:" > "William Daniel was born in Caroline Co. Virginia Mar. 1st > 1734. > Salie Daniel was born in Caroline Co. Virginia Jan. 15th > 1756 > Benjamin Daniel was born in Caroline Co. Virginia Oct. 18th > 1769." > > Page 3: > Under the heading of "MARRIAGES:" > "William Daniel was married to Mary Snead, daughter of > John Snead of Caroline Co. Virginia on the 6th day of April > 1764. > Benjamin Daniel was married to Margaret Brown Jan. 1, > 1790 in Caroline County, Virginia [the year is correct, but > the day of the marriage varies substantially from the official > records.]." > > As I said, this last document is at best secondary (or even fourthly) > information, and as such is not very strong. I have never been able to find > any record of William Daniel's purported marriage to Mary Snead. It is well > documented in histories of the area that John Snead operated a tavern near > the mill operated by William Daniel at this time. I have also found, in > "Virginia Publick Claims, Caroline County," transcribed and compiled by > Janice L. Abercrombie and Richard Slatten, published by Iberian Publishing > Co., Athens GA (page 24) the following: > > "Sneed, Mary assne of Wm. Daniel 180# beef 1-17-6." > > Since these "Publick Claims" were submitted to the U. S. government as > Revolutionary War claims, it seems that either 1)this was a different Mary > Sneed than the one William Daniel married; or 2)William Daniel and Mary > Sneed were never married and Benjamin was illegitimate. This is the basis > for my statement the he might have been illegitimate. At this point, I have > no idea. No, I have no DNA support, since I know of no living, unbroken > male line of this branch. Obviously, I'm not. The last surnamed Daniel in > my line was my great-grandmother, Virginia Wickliffe Daniel, who married > John King Weyer in Madison, IN on 14 Oct 1873. She was the daughter of > William A. Daniel, a grandson of Benjamin. > > In any case, I think the evidence suggests that Benjamin Daniel was a son of > one of the (many) William Daniel's. Along with many other people, I > sincerely hope that some day it can be established which William Daniel, but > until then, I think my documentation is as good as anyone has been able to > find so far...and I don't think I'm "wearing my family on my sleeve." I > have conducted a lot of research in my family lines, and where I think the > evidence is shaky, I am very careful to point it out. > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] The Old Fence Sitter > > > > Bill, > > Read what I said -- I said that was Payne's name for your families > > DANIEL line, at least at one time and that is still how I still carry it. > > My definition of "mess" means your family is questionable and while you > may > > think you know who your ancestors were, you do not seem to have a lot of > > early documentation for this line, do you? > > I think you said in one post, you thought your DANIEL ancestor was a > > illegitimate son of one of these DANIELS, did you not? That, in itself, > > makes your line rather questionable to me. Do you have any DNA support > for > > this assignment or is this just a hypothesis? > > Let me explain something to some of you. I know it is hard for some > not > > to "wear their families on their sleeves" but that is not how historical > or > > genealogical research is best handled. None of this is personal and if > you > > make it so, then you are just hurting yourself in the search for the > truth. > > I never made any point about where your family located except to say > > that many families who migrated to KY from VA or TN also later crossed the > > Ohio River into OH. IN and IL. Are you trying to tell me your family > > crossed over into IN without first crossing the Ohio River? Just exactly > > where was I in error in this statement? > > I also think you will find that any significant "permanent" migration > to > > IN or those points west of OH would probably have been after the War of > > 1812, because the British led Indians were really working over the > American > > inhabitants who lived to the west of a north-south line passing through > the > > Cincinnati, OH area during the War of 1812. And, IN is to the west of > OH, > > so if they lived in the IN area during the War of 1812, it would have been > a > > rather risky endeavor, unless they wanted their scalps to end up being > sold > > in Detroit. Afterwards, a little easier. > > > > John R. Clarke > > Thomasville, GA > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Click on the following link and your message is ready to send > Mail Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > or- > Digest Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > >