Just for the record, John...I did not find "...the line with the most question marks and...[get] an instant ancestor." I have evidence that my ancestor, Benjamin Daniel, was a son of William Daniel and Mary Snead. Beyond that, I have no idea which of the many William Daniels. In fact, I have a strong suspicion that he was an illegitimate son, but have no proof. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Daniel, Joe" <JoeD494005@aol.com>; "Brewer, Bill" <wwb@ix.netcom.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > Morning John , I am pleased that you visit my web site and find items of > interest to share with the List. Howsoever: > > Joe Daniel and I put the "Bill Brewer" line where it is after some > consultation with Bill. "Cobbled Up", even Bill is not 100% happy with the > assignment, but a mess in his work, I can't buy that. If you have some > constructive input to help us clear up the so called mess??, please let us > know in detail. > > So far I subscribe to the position that Burney and Randall gals were married > to Thomas Daniel. When I review your most recent ideas about that > possibility, I may change my mind. We need some facts man! > > Aha, TV basket ball today to cleanse the little gray cells from all this > genealogical morass. I am a DUKIE and Robert is a GATOR, so John bring on > the DAWGS. > > Talk to ya'll later. Payne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:03 PM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > > > > Payne, > > One researcher has Thomas DANIEL of Greene County, GA married to a > Sarah > > RANDLE and Sarah BURNEY with the kids being shown as the children of Sarah > > BURNEY. They also have this Thomas the son of William DANIEL and > Elizabeth > > COLEMAN of Caroline County, VA. What a cobbled up line, that is - that is > > the Bill BREWER line and talk about a mess, that is it..... > > It almost seems that some, when they cannot put their known ancestor > > with a specific line, they find the line with the most question marks and > > "bingo," they have an instant ancestor. <grin> I think there were > probably > > two Thomas DANIELS in Greene County -- one, a part of that Kelso-Daniel > line > > and another from NC. One married a RANDLE and one married a BURNEY. > > The only possibility is that BURNEY was not BURNEY but BIRNEY and > > floated out of that Northern VA and Maryland BIRNEY family. I know that > > part of that family migrated from MD/PA/VA to KY and then back into > Northern > > Alabama. Because of their opposition to slavery they later peddled their > > way back north to the Washington, DC area. > > This BIRNEY family is tied to my bunch - the son of General William > > BIRNEY and Catherine HOFFMAN of Prince Frederick County, MD, Theodore Weld > > BIRNEY (1854-1897), married my second cousin, Alice Josephine McCLELLAN > > (1858-1907) in 1892 as her second husband. Her mother was a TATUM and > her > > grandmother a POTTER, a younger sister of my GGM, Anne Eliza POTTER. > Alice > > also married a WHITE from Charleston, SC as her first husband but is most > > remembered for her latter marriage and name, Alice McClellan BIRNEY.. > > This was why I made the note about the McCLELLANDS of Augusta County, > VA > > in the note about the McDONALDS, O'DONALDS and DONNELLYS the other day. > The > > spelling of their name was butchered by civil servants, too.. > > I do not know about this bunch in Greene County, GA. A lot of their > > links do not make sense but they are tied all over the FITZPATRICKS and > any > > family tied to that bunch has links back to Goochland, Cumberland, > Fauquier > > and even Augusta County, VA. > > I know I am starting to see a pattern here that makes sense. This > > Thomas could be a Woodson-Daniel descendant or he could be a part of that > > Kelso-Daniel bunch. I do not know but I would like to look at the > > possibility they are all related. This is the simplest solution but that > > may not be the case. > > In fact, one of these may be a DONALD, McDONALD, DONALDSON, DONELLY or > > something along these lines and to make things simple down in Greene > County, > > they just shortened their name to DANIEL. Regardless, they all seem to be > > of the same financial and educational profiles. > > If I was going to guess, I would say that one of these Greene County, > > GA families was out of Lancaster, PA and/or Frederick County, MD area and > > was originally a McDONALD, DONELLY, O'DONALD or something along those > lines, > > which is why we cannot trace them back as a DANIEL. My bet is McDONALD > and > > the name change occurred around the time of the RW because of the Loyalist > > McDONALD family. In fact, some of this bunch may have been loyalists and > > dumped the name and took up DANIEL to keep this association out of > > subsequent generations. > > Personally, I never understand why the CUNNINGHAMS kept their name > since > > the "Butcher of SC" was a CUNNINGHAM and these folks in Greene County, GA > > had to know the hard feelings this name had for many who also migrated > from > > SC to GA in the years after the RW. This may account for the reason the > > CUNNINGHAMS married "so close" - none of the other folks in the area would > > have anything to do with them. You know the South, as I do -- hard > feelings > > and family hatreds linger on for years, regardless of how much money you > > have. <grin> > > > > John R. Clarke > > Thomasville, GA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:32 AM > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > > > > > > Can we have the best of both worlds. That is, Thomas was married to both > > gals. What stats do you have on the Burney gal and likewise on the Randall > > gal? Can they co-mingle in a relationship with Thomas? I enjoyed your > > possibilities and I will keep chewing on this stuff. > > > > Thanks to John and Mike for their thoughts on my Peter Daniel delema and > to > > those of you who chipped in on my Marmaduke study. > > > > Lunch time ya'll. Payne > > > > "The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive." > > -- Robert Heinlein, "Job", 1984 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 10:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > > > > > > > Well, Payne, you know how I closely watch family associations in these > > > DANIEL families and Charles DANIEL (1773-ABT 1800) of Greene County, GA > > > being a son of Thomas DANIEL and Sarah BURNEY of NC, makes no sense > > > whatsoever to me, if he married Elizabeth COFFEE, d/o Peter COFFEE. > > > However, it does make sense if Charles's mother was a RANDLE and Thomas > > was > > > a VA DANIEL and not a NC DANIEL, which the BURNEY link seems to imply. > > > > > > Also note the many Charleston, SC connections in the family of William > > > Coffee DANIEL (son of Charles and Elizabeth COFFEE of Greene County, > > GA) -- > > > he married a SCREVEN girl whose family was out of Charleston and > > Charleston > > > families are a big link in my bunch. Dr. William Coffee DANIEL I am > pretty > > > sure was the GA Senator William DANIEL of Savannah who interceded with > the > > > senate on behalf of the Methodist preacher, whom Judge L. Q. C. LAMAR of > > > Milledgeville, GA had condemned to death in 1832, only to find out > later, > > he > > > was innocent. Remember also, that Professor Winfield Montgomery RIVERS, > > who > > > married the widow of Robert W. DANIEL (my GGF), was living with Sarah > > > Williamson Bird LAMAR, Judge LAMAR's widow, in Newton County, GA in > 1850. > > > > > > As you will note, my DANIEL bunch of Burke, later Jefferson County, GA > > > matches the profile of this bunch from Greene County, GA to a tee and > one > > of > > > this Thomas and Sarah's kids of Greene County, GA were the > > > great-grandparents of a girl, Mary Lou HUNTER, who married directly into > > my > > > RICHTER family in Madison, through the RALLS (also a VA family), > COLEMANS > > > and DANIEL of Greensboro, Greene County, GA. So, I am already connected > > to > > > this DANIEL bunch in Greene County, GA in one way but tis the other that > > > interests me..... > > > > > > My bet is that my family of Burke County, GA is related in some way to > > these > > > Greene County, GA folks, either through Thomas and Sarah or through the > > > CUNNINGHAM-DANIEL bunch. However, it could be a class thing and not a > > > family thing. > > > > > > However, there is a pretty good possibility that my bunch had links to > the > > > Upper Neck area of VA, maybe even Augusta County, VA, which may explain > > the > > > RENEAU connection in this family. Also, Robert DANIELL's "O'DANIEL > family > > > of Fairfax County, VA" seems to be the only DANIEL related family that > has > > > links to both the names, ERWIN, TAYLOR and WISE, that I need for my > bunch > > in > > > Burke County, GA to fly. We also know this O'DANIEL family was from > > Fairfax > > > County, VA, met the profile of my bunch and probably had many links into > > the > > > Upper Neck area of VA. They later migrated down to GA through NC and my > > > DANIEL or DANIELL bunch may well be a part of this migration but we > cannot > > > find the name, Robert, in this bunch. > > > > > > I think the answer to my bunch may be in correcting the DANIEL families > of > > > Greene County, GA - both of them. I think they are cobbled up, as they > > now > > > stand, primarily because they do not make sense. > > > > > > John R. Clarke > > > Thomasville, GA > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:33 AM > > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > > > > > > > > > Yes I noticed. I remain interested in the Randle and Burney connections > > and > > > the will you mentioned. > > > > > > Payne > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 6:37 PM > > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > > > > > > > > > > Payne, > > > > Did you happen to notice the given name, Charles, all over that > > > DONELLY, > > > > McDONALD and other DANIEL related information from Upper Neck and > > Augusta > > > > County, VA which I posted, yesterday? > > > > I am still trying to figure out who this DONELLY bunch was but I > > know > > > > they are all over the LEWIS, CAMPBELL and CROW families of that area, > a > > > lot > > > > of which later migrated into the OH territory. From what I do know, > > this > > > > bunch migrated from Scotland to Ireland and then to Botetourt County, > > VA, > > > > later Augusta County, VA. I would almost bet this DONELLY, or > O'DONALD > > as > > > > they are sometimes referred to in these civil records, came with them, > > > > before or after. > > > > This DONELLY, O'DONALD or McDONALD family I think had links to the > > > > Lancaster County, PA area or had ties to that area. I also think > there > > is > > > a > > > > good possibility they were probably tied in some way to that BOONES > and > > > > BRYAN bunch from that same general area. > > > > The reason I ask about the name, Charles, is Charles is not a > given > > > name > > > > in any of the families I know which later migrated into Greene and > > Wilkes > > > > County, GA. I cannot say these families in Augusta County, VA are > > around > > > > the CUNNINGHAMS of that area but they sure were in the same general > > area, > > > at > > > > one point, and we know that bunch later migrated south into VA from > PA. > > > > I want to see that will of Thomas DANIEL of Greene County, GA, > that > > > > confirms the Charles DANIEL (1773-1803) who married Elizabeth COFFEE, > > was > > > a > > > > son of Thomas DANIEL and Sarah BURNEY of Greene County, GA if someone > > has > > > > it. The given name, Charles, just does not fit this family nor does a > > link > > > > to the COFFEES. > > > > The reason I say it does not fit is -- (1) These VA families > tended > > to > > > > marry only into what were, once, VA families (2) These families > married > > > all > > > > over each other -- cousins married cousins. > > > > For Peter COFFEE to let his daughter break with tradition and > marry > > > into > > > > a NC family does not match their profile at all, unless Thomas DANIEL > > was > > > > out of this same DANIEL line that came south with them and the > > CUNNINHJAMS > > > > from VA....... > > > > If the latter, then I think Thomas DANIEL of Greene County, GA was > > > > really married to a Sarah RANDLE, something that others have reported > > > > because the RANDLE name is all over this bunch, later. If later, then > > > > possibly, earlier, too........ > > > > For what it is worth, I think the COFFEE/COFFEY family followed > the > > > > CUNNINGHAMS from Ireland to PA, then to PE County, VA and finally to > > > Wilkes > > > > and Greene County, GA. The HEARDS and even the FITZPATRICKS may have > > been > > > a > > > > part of this group, too. > > > > > > > > <<<< > > > > IE: > > > > > > > > Page 25.--26th February, 1762. Francis Tyler to Israel Christian, £40, > > > > a negro slave Hanna. Teste: W. Christian, Charles Donelly. > > > > > > > > Page 305.--22d June, 1763. Daniel Harrison and Sarah to James Green, > > > > £9, 100 acres in north fork of Linwell's Creek. Teste: James Gamwill, > > > > Charles Donnelly. > > > > > > > > Page 289.--18th March, 1768. George Wilson and Elizabeth, of > Hampshire, > > > > to Charles Donnelly, £90, 234 acres by patent 10th August, 1759, on > > > > Stewart's Creek above. Delivered to Charles Donnelly, March, 1778. > > > > > > > > MARCH 18, 1768 > > > > (521) Commission ordered to privily examine Elizabeth, wife of George > > > > Wilson, to deed to Charles Donnelly > > > > > > > > Page 106.--17th May, 1768. James Hugart's estate appraisement, by > James > > > > McCoy, Charles Donnerley, John Cartmill, recorded. > > > > > > > > MARCH 25, 1769 > > > > (125) Charles Donnerly and John McCreery appointed surveyors of road > > from > > > > Capt. Charles Lewis's to, the Fork of Dickinson's Road. > > > > > > > > Page 219.--24th February, 1770. Patrick Davis and Esther to James > > > > Millican, £30, 44 acres by patent dated 10th September, 1767, on > > > > Cowpasture River. Teste: Charles Lewis, Charles and Andrew Donnelly. > > > > Delivered: Andrew Donnelly, December, 1775. > > > > > > > > AUGUST 20, 1772 > > > > (409) Charles Lewis qualified Lieutenant Colonel of County. > > > > (411) Charles O'Donald, aged 17, orphan of Michael O'Donald, chose > > Thomas > > > > Stuart guardian. > > > > > > > > Page 9.--20th August, 1772. Thomas Stewart's bond (with George > Mathews, > > > > David Henderson) as guardian to Charles O'Donald, orphan of Michael > > > > O'Donald. > > > > > > > > Page 182.--4th December, 1772. William Sitlington's estate appraised > > > > by Charles Donelly, Ralph Laverty, William Reach--1 servant man > > appraised > > > > to Dorby Dedy, £18.00.0; 1 servant man. named Joseph, appraised > > > > to Blackhouse £15.10.0; 1 servant man, named Augustine Picket, > £14.00.0; > > > > 1 servant man, named Richard, appraised to Edwards, £14.00.0; 1 > servant > > > > woman appraised to £12.00.0. > > > > > > > > Page 208.--8th October, 1781. Elizabeth (mark) dark's will--To > daughter, > > > > Jean Elliot's heirs; to well beloved Elizabeth Breath (Reath, Reoth?); > > > > to daughter, Sarah Elliot; to daughter, Anne Dounlap; to daughter, > > Margret > > > > Clenkaid; to son, John Gridle; to son, James; to son, Alexander and > > > > to Alexander's wife; to four daughters; to son, Samuel; to son, > > William's > > > > heirs; to son, Robert. Executors, son Robert Clark and William Reaoh. > > > > Teste: Charles Donally, James McCleerey, Robt. Patterson, Geo. Berry. > > > > Proved, 20th November, 1781, by McCleerey and Berry. Robert Clark > > > > qualifies. > > > > > > > > Page 383.--25th October, 1781. Jane McCoy, of Greenbrier, widow and > > > > sole executrix of James McCoy, to Andrew and Charles Donnerley, > patented > > > > 10th August, 1759, to said James on Stewart's Creek. Teste: Hugh > > > > Brown, Andrew Sitlington, Nathan Crawford. > > > > > > > > > > > > Page 308.--16th June, 1783. Mary (mark) Donnelly relinquishes her > > > > right to administration on her husband's, Charles Donnelly's, estate > and > > > > nominates Andrew Donnelly, of Greenbrier, and her son, Andrew > Donnelly. > > > > Teste: James Bleake, William (mark) Gillespey. > > > > > > > > Page 308.--15th February, 1779. Charles Donnelly's will (of Cow > > > > Pasture)--To wife, Mary; to daughters, Jean Bleake, Mary Brown; to > other > > > > four children, viz: Andrew, Charles, Ann, Catherine; to sons, Andrew > and > > > > Charles Donnally, Jr. Executrix, Mary and Col. Andrew Donnally and > > > > son Andrew. Teste: James Bleke, John Gay, Wm. (mark) Gillespy. > > > > Proved, 17th June, 1783, by Blake and Gillespy. Gay is since dead. The > > > > two Andrews qualify. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John R. Clarke > > > > Thomasville, GA > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > > > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:55 PM > > > > Subject: [DANIEL-L] Family Puzzler > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afternoon John and all, I have a puzzler. Even an "I think" or an "I > > > told > > > > > you so" will be appreciated. Payne > > > > > > > > > > The Peter Daniel who married Sarah/Sally Lofton has been assigned to > > > > William > > > > > Daniel and Martha Field Allen Daniel. This assignment and the > > > possibility > > > > > that he was Peter Mickelborough Daniel the son of Charles Daniel and > > > Sarah > > > > > Tate is questionable. Even though PMD has the same stats as the > Peter > > > > Daniel > > > > > who was the s/o William and Martha, the Peter who was the son of > > Charles > > > > and > > > > > Sarah was not the same individual. That Peter married Jane Ann > > Mayfield > > > > and > > > > > Elizabeth Piner. Does all of this sound familiar : ) ? > > > > > > > > > > Now another scenerio. The Peter Daniel who was the son of David > Daniel > > > and > > > > > Margaret Lynch was most likley the Peter who married Sally Lofton. > > > There > > > > > are many collateral ties between the Loftins and the Lynchs and the > > > > Daniels > > > > > of Davidson County to support this connection. Ref: Jersey Baptist > > > Meeting > > > > > House Records in Davidson County where Peter, Charity and Mary made > > > > > applications in 1802. Had to be the son of David? > > > > > > > > > > Which Peter married Sally Lofton? We have at least two Peters > sharing > > > that > > > > > distinction and both can't have the same date of birth, but they do? > > > > > > > > > > Peter Daniel (Is this fact or fiction) Father: William DANIEL b: > 1740 > > > in, > > > > > Cumberland, Virginia - Mother: Pattie ALLEN b: Abt 1746 in > Cumberland, > > > > > Virginia - Marriage 1 Sarah LOFTON b: 1786 in, Montgomery, North > > > Carolina > > > > > Married: 28 MAR 1803 in Rowan, North Carolina - Sealing Spouse: 13 > MAR > > > > 1981 > > > > > in OGDEN Children: 1. Drury DANIEL b: Abt 1809 in Rowan, North > > Carolina. > > > > 2. > > > > > John T. DANIEL b: 1819 in Tennessee. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > > > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like > to > > > > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > > suggestion > > > > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free > to > > > > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > > > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > suggestion > > > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > > > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > IF YOU MISS ANY MESSAGE: You can easily search the DANIEL List Archives > > at: > > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=DANIEL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > > > Click on the following link and your message is ready to send > > > Mail Mode: > > > mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > > or- > > > Digest Mode: > > > mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting of > > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral families > or > > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- are not > > allowed on this list. > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net > > > >