Payne, If the Tabley DANIELL bunch went anywhere, it would have been to New England, and not Virginia. As another researcher stated so eloquently, VA was where the "riff-raff" went. We know the Tabley DANIELLS were supposedly tied to the GROSVENORS and the GROSVENORS did migrate to New England (Roxbury, MA). We also know they were later collateral with a DANIEL family of the same area. That DANIEL family, if anything, may be the source of any of any Tabley DANIELL in America and not VA, as you note. However, this Massachusetts DANIEL family could be a completely different DANIEL family because this DANIEL family was probably from the Norfolk or Suffolk areas of England and the over Tabley bunch was from Over Tabley, Cheshire, England. Regardless, Leicester and Richard are big names in the descendants of John GROSVENOR, Sr. (1640-1691) and Esther CLARKE of Roxbury, Suffolk County, MA. Notice the location where they lived -- it has the same county name as where the Robert DANIEL family was from in England. Leicester GROSVENOR, Sr. (1675-1759) and Rebecca WALDO of Pomfret, Windham County, CT are two of the primary ancestors of most GROSVENORS in America. Leicester GROSVENOR, Sr. and Rebecca WALDO are my wife's 6th GGP. Also, William GROSVENOR, Jr., Leicester's older brother died in Charleston, SC BEF 16 Jul 1721. Rebecca Waldo GROSVENOR's uncle, Thomas ADAMS, died in Barbados in 1684. I would not be surprised to find the sister of South Carolina's Gov. MOORE, a Dolly CLARK of Boston, was not a part of the Esther CLARKE family, the wife of John GROSVENOR, Sr. My wife is also a WELD descendant from Chelmsford, Middlesex, MA, the ancestral home of the ADAMS and GRAVES families of MA and these WELDS feed right into the David ALDERMAN family of Duplin County, North Carolina. Below is a short pedigree for Leicester GROSVENOR, son of John and grandson of William GROSVENOR. Also, notice the MARBURY in this listing and the MERBURY you have on your website with the Tabley DANIELLS. From this, you can easily see -- my wife also has a few CROOKS in her family, too. <grin> <<< ""In the pedigree entered by Leicester GROSVENOR, her grandson, in 1663, the wife of William GROSVENOR (2) is called 'daughter of CRUCK of Cruckhall in Bridgnorth.' The marriage record in the registers of the parish of St. Leonard, Bridgnorth, calls her 'Ursula BLUNT.' In 1404 Sir Nicholas BLUNT or BLOUNT, who had been involved in a plot for the restoration of King Richard II, changed his name to CROKE, in order to escape punishment from Henry IV; and his descendants appear sometimes under the name of CROKE or CRUKE and sometimes under the name of BLUNT or BLOUNT. In the registers of the parish of St. Leonard both names are found for this family. Members of the BLOUNT family played important parts in English history. Sir Walter BLOUNT, a supporter of John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, and of his son, King Henry IV, was slain by Archibald, Earl of Douglas, at the Battle of Shrewsbury, 23 July 1403. He is a prominent character in Shakspere's King Henry IV, Part I. He married Donna Sancha DE AYÁLA, a Spanish lady of high rank, and in the reign of Edward IV their grandson became the first Baron Mountjoy and was Lord High Treasurer of England. William BLOUNT, the fourth Baron Mountjoy, a grandson of the first Baron Mountjoy, was a patron and friend of Erasmus. Mrs. Anne (MARBURY) HUTCHINSON, so famous in the early history of New England, was a descendant of Sir Walter BLOUNT and his wife, Donna Sancha DE AYÁLA, and several New England families may trace their ancestry, through the MARBURY family, to this Shaksperean knight and his Spanish consort. For the BLOUNT family see pedigrees in various English Visitations, articles in the Dictionary of National Biography, and Sir Alexander CROKE's Genealogical History of the CROKE FAmily, surnamed LE BLOUNT." [footnote, p. 184]"" . >>> John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: [DANIEL-L] For the Record > Annie, In regard to Col. William Daniel of Wigan, who by the way, was not > William of Middlesex Co., Va., nor William of Mass. His sons William and > Henry did not produce any issue. Hayden's Charts are incorrect in some of > the lineage lines of the De Tabley Daniels/Danyls. etc. I have the > documentation at my web page which is supported by researchers in England. > [Hayden's "The Visitation of Lancashire" with respect to William of Wigan is > nonsense] To quote a Lancashire Researcher. > > Notes on Dorothy Forth are below. SHE did not marry William Daniel of > Middlesex who is most likely the founder of the Daniel family in Middlesex > County, Virginia in 1660. ("A Place in Time, Middlesex County, Virginia, > 1650-1750") > > There is speculation that a Peter Daniel from Scotland was in Middlesex Co., > Va., in 1620, but this is quite improvable. > Col. William of Wigan married Dorothy Forth, daughter of William Forth Esq. > of Wigan, Lancs, about 1646. > > They had the following children: > > 175 M i Henry Daniell was born 1647. He died d.s.p. > > 176 M ii William Daniell was born 1651. He died d.s.p. > > 177 F iii Dorothy Daniell died as infant. > > 178 F iv Dorothy Daniell was born 1653. > > 179 F v Elizabeth Daniell was born 1654. was buried 10 Feb 1730. > > Elizabeth married (1) Ralph Finch Esq. of Chester. > > Elizabeth also married (2) John Hutton Esq. of St.Oswald,Cheshire. > > 180 F vi Mary Daniell was born 1655. > > 181 F vii Anne Daniell died died young. > > 182 F viii Helen Daniell was born 1660. > > Helen married Martin Willis Esq. of Halstead on 14 Apr 1681. > > Note: Dorety Forth (d/o)William Forth was christened on 6 Aug. 1618 Wigan, > Lancashire. Capt. William of Wigan, b. 1626 married Dorothy (d/o William > Forth) of Wigan and co-heiress of William of Wigan. She was reported to be > buried in 1695, having had 2 sons and 6 girls. This lady (i.e.. Dorothy > Forth) bore the arms of Holt and Forth, being granddaughter of - Holt,esq. > of Sherington and an heiress. > > I am not sure what that aet. 14, anno, 08 APL 1665 means but William and > Henry died before that date. > > I think you can be safe with beginning the Daniels of Middlesex with William > [Will record: ITEM: I give to my loving son, James Daniell one tract or > divident of land which I bought of Joseph Gore, being 1/2 of the land that > David Allison dyed possessed of, in the Co. of Middlesex, to him and his > heirs forever, lawfully begotten of his body, and for want of such heirs to > my son James Daniell and to his heirs lawfully] I see no mystery here. > > Are you sure the Parish Register of Christ Church, Middlesex Co, Va. from > 1653 to 1812 doesn't mention a son James? > > I have Eustace unassigned. He is not Edmund!! > > Nice work Annie, Payne http//paynedaniel.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] DANIEL ~ Blissland Parish, VA + Marriages > > > > Payne, About Eustace DANIEL.... I just don't know. My DNA from Edmund and > > TEMBTE line doesn't match the Middlesex as you are aware. After going > through > > the Hayden book which is mostly, or perhaps considered all Middlesex, I'm > > beginning to believe atleast TWO DIFFERENT DANIEL clans were running in > the same > > crowd in that time period. > > > > So, here's probably a repeat of info you have already seen from this > > "Virginia Genealogies" by Rev Horace E. Hayden, pub: 1891, 1959, 1966, pg > 330 ~ this > > page mentions Eustace DANIEL ~ and all these people might be ones he could > not > > place, [definitely isn't clear to me], and this has probably been > circulated a > > dozen times in the past across the web. Also, see last note below about > > Edwin CONWAY and another Samuel COLEMAN. > > > > Annie > > > > > > MIDDLESEX RECORDS > > DANIEL, Margaret, m. 15 AUG 1711, to Henry WARE, b: 1690 > > DANIEL, Elizabeth, m. 04 FEB 1714, to George CHEWNING, b: 1695 > > DANIEL, Ann, m. 03 SEP 1714, to Curtis PERROTT, b: 1698 > > DANIEL, Jane, married 12 MAY 1720, to Oliver LEGAR > > DANIEL, Sarah, married 10 DEC 1730, to Henry NIXON > > DANIEL, Jane, married 26 JAN 1733, to Arthur WARE > > DANIEL, Mary, married 10 JUN 1731, to Ralph SKELTON > > DANIEL, Robert, married 29 APR 1731, to Elizabeth CARTER > > DANIEL, Elizabeth, married 13 APR 1733, to Edward BRISTOW > > DANIEL, Annie, married 14 MAY 1734, to James PRESNALL > > DANIEL, Margaret, married 09 OCT 1735, to John TOWLES > > > > NOTE the break in dates ~ why? ~ maybe marriages in these years had been > > identified? > > > > DANIEL, Robert, JR, married 29 DEC 1768, to Penelope LEE > > DANIEL, Betty, married 18 MAY 1769, to Peter KEMP > > DANIEL, William, married 26 JUL 1770, to Lucy GUTTERY > > DANIEL, Elizabeth, married 06 FEB 1774, to James LEE > > DANIEL, Catherine, married 21 DEC 1776, to William SHACKLEFORD > > DANIEL, Lydia, married 10 JUL 1777, to Lunsford DANIEL > > DANIEL, Sarah, married 04 APR 1782, to Abner CLOUDAS > > DANIEL, Peggy, married 16 MAR 1786, to Batchelder THURSTON > > DANIEL, Susannah G., married 31 DEC 1789, to Leonard GEORGE > > DANIEL, Mary, married 19 DEC 1789, to Henry Daniel SHEPHERD > > DANIEL, George, married 12 FEB 1789, to Lucy CLARE > > DANIEL, Nelson, married 06 FEB 1790, to Jeane BLACKBURN > > DANIEL, Elizabeth, married 22 SEP 1792, to William BROOKING > > DANIEL, Sarah, married 27 JUL 1793, to Burgen KIDD > > DANIEL, Lucy, married 21 JUN 1801, to Matt KEMP > > > > Immediately below the above marriages, still on pg 330: > > BLISSLAND PARISH REGISTRY ~ > > 1. DANIEL, EUSTACE, b: 04 DEC 1734/35, baptized 06 FEB 1734/35, son of > > Edmond and Alice DANIEL > > > > NOTE: The surname of EUSTACE appears in this book starting on page 125 > with > > Agatha Ann EUSTACE, b: APR 1765, daughter of Agatha CONWAY, b: 1740 ~ d: > 02 > > APR 1826, Stafford County, VA and [M: 15 MAY 1757, to] Isaac EUSTACE ~ Son > of > > William EUSTACE and Anne LEE ~ Agatha Ann married General John BLACKWELL > > > > ~ pg 127 Mary BALL + William Conway EUSTACE and her sister, Maria married > > Eustace CONWAY. > > > > This book also mentions the GLASSCOCKs about 20 times ~ same ones that > > married into both paternal and maternal sides. And, the THORNTONs about > 50 times > > [family of the mother of Hannah ASBURY~DANIEL]. BILLINGTONs mentioned > about 06 > > times, and there are THORNTONs and DANIELs in the BILLINGTON line. > > > > 2. DANIEL, James, b: 21 OCT 1737, baptized 27 NOV 1737, son of Walter and > > William DANIEL ~ NOTE: Sometime back I posted about a lady with a man's > name > > which came from one of my books, ~ not sure if this "William" is same. > Believe > > her second name was a recognized female name. > > > > 3. DANIEL, Sarah, b: 28 SEP 1756, baptized 07 NOV 1756, daughter of > Walter > > and Mary DANIEL. > > > > 4. DANIEL, Mary, b: 07 SEP 1758, baptized 29 OCT 1758, also daughter of > > above Walter and Mary DANIEL > > > > 5. DANIEL, William, b: 04 OCT 1767 ~ son of above. > > > > DANIEL, Buckner, private, Virginia Military, 1775 ~ 1783; pensioner 1835, > age > > 74, DAVIDSON COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA. > > > > DANIEL, Christopher, private, Virginia Military 1775 ~ 1783; pensioner > 1835, > > age 75, ORANGE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA > > > > DANIEL, George married Frances UNKNOWN. John ROANE was adm of estate of > > Francis. [as written] > > > > DANIEL, James, married Anne Maclin, widow of William Maclin and mother of > > William W. M. > > > > DANIEL, Walker went to Lincoln County from Virginia, 1781. He "laid off" > the > > town of Danville, Kentucky, 1781. He was prosecuting attorney of Kentucky > > district, 1783. > > > > > > DANIEL in Virginia Militia, War of 1812 ~ brackets indicate numbers upon > the > > Pay Rolls: > > DANIEL, Travers > > DANIEL, Robert, private Capt Cousin's Company [139] > > DANIEL, Nathaniel, private 1st Reg. [143] > > DANIEL, Goodwin G., private 1st Reg. [149] > > DANIEL, Robert B., sergeant > > DANIEL, John, private > > DANIEL, Ephraim, private [153 ~ may include the two immediately above] > > DANIEL, Nimrod, private [185] > > DANIEL, Charles [232] > > DANIEL, Christopher, 109th Reg. [235, 246] > > DANIEL, Lewis, 109th Reg. [239, 247] > > DANIEL, John, 109th Reg. [243] > > DANIEL, Carter, 109th Reg. [247] > > DANIEL, Jonathan or John M., private, 21st Reg. [272] > > DANIEL, Thomas [453] > > > > ALL ABOVE on page 330. > > > > Now, would someone please explain this to me: What does "aet. 40, anno, > 08 > > APL 1665" mean after William DANIEL of Wigan, County Lancaster, England? > And, > > the same date below? He married Dorothy FORTH, heir of Hugh FORTH of > Wigan. > > In addition, it is signed by William DANIELL, Ormeskirke on 08th APL 1665, > on > > the same date, as written in this book by HAYDEN, pg 292, [unnumbered]. > > > > Then there is a vertical line across the page separating above, and with > > eight short horizontal lines ~ > > under the vertical line, to the left under two of these short lines are: > > 1. William, aet. 14, anno, 08 APL 1665 ~ ???. > > b: 1651. > > 2. Henry, aet. 18 ann. > > > > Then, to the right under the other six short lines are a bunch of "hens" > and > > NO "roosters" > > ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > pg 294: > > William DANIEL received land in Middlesex County, Virginia, 1669. He > > received 150 acres in Lancaster County, 05 OCT 1672. But, no one of the > name DANIEL > > appears in Middlesex Church records prior to 1684. > > > > "Mr. CONWAY wisely began his chart with James and Margaret [VIVIAN] DANIEL > of > > Middlesex County, 1704. Through Mr. STANARD* I have lately secured the > Will > > of Captain William DANIEL, 263, which names his son James, whose birth is > not > > given in the Middlesex Register. It appears very probable that James > DANIEL, > > who heads the following pedigree, was his son, BUT IT IS NOT PROVEN." > > > > So, has anyone since proven? > > > > > > `````````````````````````````````````````````` > > > > *STANARD... Was this STANYARNE by some in the family... earlier times, the > > same? > > John WILSON= c. 1790 ~ Elizabeth STANYARNE ~ Son of: > > Algernon WILSON= 1746, ~ Susan Proctor DANIELL ~ Daughter of: > > Marmaduke DANIEL= c. 1724 ~ Susan [Proctor] ~ Son of: > > Robert DANIEL, II = c. 1698 ~ Sarah ............... ~ Son of: > > Robert DANIEL, I, Governor = Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, Son of: > > Roger DANIEL, II ~ [pg 6a] > > > > NOTE: Marmaduke DANIEL, bc: 1703 ~ dc: 1741 ~ Married circa 1724, to > Susan > > [PROCTOR~?]. They had two children: son Marmaduke DANIEL, II [sic], b: > 13 DEC > > 1725, and daughter Sarah Proctor DANIEL, b: 17 JAN 1727/28*, db: AUG 1801, > > married 06 FEB 1746, to Algernon WILSON. [*Register of St Thomas and St > Denis > > Parish, South Carolina, by CLUTE, pg 55] > > > > Until 1959 it had been presumed that Marmaduke II had died young. In 1959 > > Mrs. Lola Lee DANIELL Bruington of Florida made transcripts of some deeds > in > > Chatham County, North Carolina, signed by Marmaduke DANIELL in 1782~1786. > [pg 20] > > > > From "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" by York Lowry WILSON, A.B., > Princeton > > University, 1915, pub 1962, Aldershot Gale & Polden Ltd. [about 15 pages > on > > Robert DANIEL, I, with references] > > ````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > From above: John WILSON= c. 1790 ~ Son of Algernon WILSON, of St Paul's > > Parish, d: 31 MAR 1774, m. Sarah Proctor DANIEL ~ also had a son, Jehu > WILSON, > > [Will dtd 05 JUN 1795, proved in Charleston 11 NOV 1826] who married 10 > AUG 1801 > > Sarah BLAKEWAY, dau. of Dr. Lionel CHALMERS & (1) Martha LOGAN, who was a > > granddaughter of Lieutent General the Honorable Robert DANIELL. > > > > The author further states that Algernon and Marmaduke are distinctive > > Christian names of these WILSON families. Marmaduke WILSON of Westonfield > and > > Kirkdeighton, Yorkshire, England, was father of Marmaduke WILSON [JR~?] > who > > matriculated at Trinity College, Cambridge in 1602 ~ this branch moved to > Durham... > > England, I assume. > > > > `````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > [Hayden, pg 226] "The next grant was to Edwin CONWAY for 1250 acres in > > Lancaster County, [Virginia] S. E. side Corotoman River ~ 1000 acre grant > by two > > patents, one of 06 DEC 1652, in which he and his wife Martha [ELTONHEAD, > dau of > > Richard of Lancaster, England] are named head-rights, and which states > that > > Edwyn CONWAY had come to Virginia four times; and one of 06 APR 1654, for > 250 > > acres for five persons ~ William Collins, Edward Bennett, Alice Ellis, Ann > > Roberts, and SAMUEL COLEMAN." ~ Isn't 1654, Lancaster, a long time before > we see > > any Mobjack Bay Samuel COLEMANs? Could this 1654 Samuel have been a > brother or > > cousin to Robert COLEMAN, bb: 1622 who married Elizabeth GRIZZELL and > probably > > in the colony by 1637? > > > > ````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > About "a" James DANIEL marrying "a" Grizzell CLEMENTS: > > Grizzell COLEMAN, bc: 1660, who married Benjamin CLEMENTS, had sons > Richard, > > b: 1682, Benjamin, b: 1687 and Thomas, b: 1701, all born in Albingdon > Parish, > > to carry the CLEMENTS name forward in this line ~ who they married and the > > names of their children or their childrens' children, I would say, is > anyone's > > guess at this point... as accuracy may be lost to time. Looks like OCT > 1691, > > Ben SR was dealing land in King & Queen [book 8, pg 190] > > > > I see "a" Benjamin CLEMENTS died and left a Will in 1812/13 Harrison > County, > > Kentucky ~ also "a" Benjamin CLEMENTS married 03 NOV 1796 to a Lucy BAILEY > in > > Bourban County, Kentucky ~ Henning DANIEL's sister, Tembte DANIEL married > a > > John BAILEY... so that's interesting. Sorry, can't help on any James > DANIEL + > > Grizzell CLEMENTS... were they in Kentucky, or Virginia? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Click on the following link and your message is ready to send > Mail Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > or- > Digest Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe >