Yes, I understand! Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Cordial, James, Edmund DANIEL > Payne, > I try to look more so over a complete family than just one sibling of > that family. That, is where a lot of folks get in trouble. > I have to assume, also, that if one sibling married a certain person, > there was a good chance another one of their siblings would marry into that > same family or a family close to one of these two families. > When someone tells me that a Willie SMITH married a Betsy DANIEL then I > would assume his sister, Betsy SMITH, whom we also know married a Jimmy > DANIEL, married into the same overall DANIEL family. Occasionally, we find > that these two DANIEL kids were not siblings, but cousins, but they were > still out of the same overall family. Know what I mean? > This is where genealogy gets tough for some and where a lot of > assignment errors occur. It is easy to assign Betsy to a certain DANIEL > family but when you get to Jimmy, it is hard to create a genealogy where her > sibling is not assigned to the right families. I always say -- it is easy > to fabricate a genealogy across one family but it gets really tough when one > tries to do it across several or more families, because their collateral > information and good old common sense tells you "something is amiss, here." > Know what I mean? > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Cordial, James, Edmund DANIEL > > > > Thanks John, I suspect that somewhere in your dissertation there is a > > straight answer. I will consider your opinion that James was a son of > > Woodson and Nancy and forrage thru the collateral implications to see if > the > > pieces fit; and of course ponder who is "on a roll" . <g> > > > > Bring on the Wolves. Payne > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Cordial, James, Edmund DANIEL > > > > > > > Payne, > > > Being a little long in the tooth or still carrying ones baby teeth > has > > > never been a prerequisite for assignment before, so, why stop when you > are > > > on a roll? <grin> > > > The CLEMENTS are generally a Surry County, VA bunch, so one would > > think > > > they would generally tie into an Surry/IOW area family and we see a lot > of > > > that. The general links I see in the CLEMENTS are to Southside and then > > > down to Wake and Granville County, NC. We also know that Peyton > CLEMENTS, > > > Grisille's father, lived in Granville. > > > Granville is also home to some of the Middlesex bunch but it is also > > > adjacent to PE County, VA where the CUNNINGHAMS, COFFEES and that bunch > > > migrated through on the way to GA. We also know that a lot of the > > families > > > in Lunenburg and PE County, VA had direct links into Granville County, > NC. > > > I do not know but what I do know is -- I am not seeing a lot of > Essex > > > County, VA families in the Greene County, GA area. These could be > Essex > > > County, VA DANIELS but I would have to see a lot more of them and their > > > collaterals in this area of GA to convince me of that fact. Now, the > > > families of Essex are not one of my stronger suits, so I will defer to > > your > > > judgment on them. > > > I am seeing some eastern VA families in the Greene County, GA area > but > > a > > > lot of them are western VA families who formerly lived in either > > > north-central and western VA or southern PA; combined with more than > > several > > > "Southside" VA families -- all with big bucks to spread around. I think > > you > > > have to look who this whole bunch married into in order to know where > they > > > came from. > > > In my opinion, when you have Griselle CLEMENTS marrying a James > DANIEL > > > and her half-brother, William CLEMENTS, marrying an Elizabeth DANIEL, > > > daughter of Woodson DANIEL and Nancy then you have to look at James also > > > being also a son of Woodson DANIEL and Nancy GOUGE of Granville County, > > NC. > > > This agrees with the fact their brother, Jesse CLEMENTS, married a Mary > > > Elizabeth COLEMAN born in Goochland County, VA and she was probably > > related > > > to that COLEMAN bunch that also came to Greene County, GA from VA. We > > also > > > know well where the WOODSONS were from -- Goochland area. big time. > > > My thought is -- if you are going to re-assign James DANIEL, then > you > > > have to re-assign Elizabeth DANIEL, too..... Are you willing to do > that? > > > > > > From my notes on this Woodson DANIEL family: > > > > > > <<< > > > Sounds like your Woodson Daniel is the same as mine. I have Woodson > Daniel > > > b. 1736, d. 1791, m. to Nancy ?, and he appears in Wake Co., N.C. 1790 > > > Census. My link to him is through his daughter, Elizabeth Daniel, b. > 1757, > > > Wake Co., N.C., d. 1834, m. 15 Mar 1779 to William Clements (married by > > Wm. > > > Burford, Jr. and witnessed by Reuben Searcy). > > > > > > Sources: Marriages of Granville County, North Carolina, 1753-1868, > > compiled > > > by Brent H. Holcomb, published in Baltimore by Genealogical Publishing > > Co., > > > Inc., 1981, p. 65. > > > >>> > > > > > > John R. Clarke > > > Thomasville, GA > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:49 PM > > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Cordial, James, Edmund DANIEL > > > > > > > > > > Let's toss some more fat on the fire regarding James Daniel + Grizzell > > > > Clements being the son or grandson of William Daniel Jr., and > Elizabeth > > > > Coleman. (Caroline Co., VA.) > > > > Heinemann assigns a son James (-41- Son of 11) to this family (William > > > Jr.) > > > > and states that he (James) probably married a Drucilla or Pricilla > > > Harrison. > > > > Cousin Joe Daniel and I believe that this James was the son of James > > > Daniel > > > > II, the son of James of Essex Co., Va. That isn't to say that William > > Jr., > > > > did not have a son James, we just believe that James #41 was not his > > son. > > > > > > > > So is the door open for William Jr. to have a son James? And, he would > > be > > > > the brother of Edmund, Thomas, et. al. DANIELS? If James was born in > > 1765, > > > > William Jr. might be a little long in the tooth and James might not be > a > > > > brother but a nephew to Edmund, Thomas, etc. > > > > > > > > Now, I am going to review everybody's ideas again to see where we > might > > > slip > > > > old James into a family. Payne > > > > > > > > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and > > > > statistics." > > > > -- Benjamin Disraeli > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > > > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:50 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Cordial, James, Edmund DANIEL > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike and Annie, > > > > > There are a lot of things that make me question some of the > stuff > > we > > > > > have seen out of Greene County, GA, especially as relates to Thomas > > and > > > > > Sarah DANIEL. > > > > > What I do know is that Charles is not a family name in this > DANIEL > > > > > bunch, that I can tell. What I do know is that Charles is a big > given > > > > name > > > > > in the CUNNINGHAMS of SW Virginia. > > > > > If anything, I think that Charles DANIEL (1773-1800) who married > > > > > Elizabeth COFFEE may be a descendant of the DANIEL-KELSO bunch and > not > > > > > Thomas DANIEL of Greene County, GA. Or if he is indeed a descendant > > of > > > > > Thomas DANIEL, then Thomas was out of this DANIEL-KELSO bunch, > > > somewhere, > > > > or > > > > > at least, a family closely associated with the CUNNINGHAMS. > > > > > My reasoning is -- given named flow in families like water and > > > Charles > > > > > is a definite CUNNINGHAM family name. Also, the CARROLS are tied to > > the > > > > > family of Daniel COLEMAN of Warren County, NC, whose descendants end > > up > > > in > > > > > Greene County, GA tied to the same Thomas DANIEL family. The > CARROLLS > > > are > > > > > also one of the families closely identified as having followed the > > > > > CUNNINGHAMS, along with the Kelso-DANIEL bunch, as well as the > > CARLTONS, > > > > > COFFEES and others to GA from PA. > > > > > I also know that one of these CARLTONS, a John K. CARLTON, Esq. > > was > > > of > > > > > Thomas County, GA and his brother, Henry, was in Morgan County, GA, > > > > located > > > > > adjacent to Greene County, GA. I also do not know what the K. stood > > for > > > > in > > > > > this John's name but I would not bet against, KELSO. Just how many > > > other > > > > > surnames do we know that start with K. and are located around this > > > bunch. > > > > > Not many..... > > > > > We know the Coleman, Spilsby and Asbury DANIEL bunch were in > > Greene > > > > and > > > > > Morgan County, GA, early, but this does not mean they were related > to > > > the > > > > > Cunningham-Daniel bunch in Greene County, GA. The key thing, to me, > > is > > > > > profile and the Cunningham-Daniel bunch were high steppers, as best > I > > > can > > > > > tell. I do not see this same profile in this other DANIEL family. > I > > > > also > > > > > know the HUNTERS of Greene County, GA were also high steppers, which > > > seems > > > > > to follow. > > > > > There are several DANIELS that float, early, in Morgan County, > GA. > > > A > > > > > William DANIEL who d.unm. and w/o heirs in 1839 had a brother named > > > James > > > > > and a father named, John. This from his 1839 Morgan County, GA > will. > > > > > I also know there was a Capt. James L. DANIEL of Morgan County, > GA > > > who > > > > > died in a hotel in Macon, GA in 1850. I also believe he was the > > James > > > > > DANIEL mentioned in William's 1839 will of Morgan County. Which > John > > > > DANIEL > > > > > was their father, I do not know but the name, Littleberry or > something > > > > > similar to that, was a name listed in William's 1839 will, probated > in > > > > > Morgan County, GA. > > > > > Some of this LITTLEBERY information may point back to Halifax > > > County, > > > > > NC, a place that some say were the origins of Thomas DANIEL of > Greene > > > > > County, GA. Or, it may point back to the COCKE and LITTLEBERRY > > families > > > > of > > > > > Charles City County, VA or the BUSH and LITTLEBERRY families of > > > Edgefield, > > > > > SC. I do not know which, if any of these families was the source > of > > > this > > > > > name, LITTLEBERRY. > > > > > I would not be against the possibility that a lot of these > DANIELS > > > > were > > > > > either recent immigrants from Ireland, Scotland or England or Yankee > > > > DANIELS > > > > > who moved south, as did a lot of other families in that time frame, > my > > > > > family, included. They may have stayed just long enough in VA for > > folks > > > to > > > > > now think they were descendants of early VA families, when, in fact, > > > they > > > > > were not. I have scads of New England families that migrated south > > into > > > > VA > > > > > for one generation and then on south into GA by 1800. Were these > > DANIEL > > > > > families any different? I am beginning to think, not....... > > > > > It may take DNA analysis to straighten out this mess in Greene > > > County, > > > > > GA because there is just too much conflicting information out there > on > > > all > > > > > of these families....... > > > > > > > > > > John R. Clarke > > > > > Thomasville, GA > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <Runforf471@aol.com> > > > > > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:09 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Cordial, James, Edmund DANIEL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annie, > > > > > > > > > > > > Truly good stuff! I think there may be something here. I will give > > you > > > > my > > > > > > thoughts and answer Payne & John's exchange of yesterday > concerning > > > > James > > > > > DANIEL, > > > > > > husband of Grizzell Clements, being a son of Woodson DANIEL of > Wake > > > > Cty., > > > > > NC. > > > > > > You and I seem to agree that James may be related in some manner > to > > > > > Edmund. > > > > > > You mention the possibility that James was Edmund's brother. I > > think > > > it > > > > > may > > > > > > be more probable that James was Edmund's nephew, a son of Edmund's > > > > brother > > > > > > James. I suspect Edmund's brother James may have been a bit long > in > > > the > > > > > tooth to > > > > > > marry Grizzell. I had recorded an old quote from an article in > the > > > > > Huxford > > > > > > Genealogy Society Magazine Vol. #25 No. 4 Dec.1998 that states > that > > > > James > > > > > > (Grizzell's hsbnd.) was a son of James. > > > > > > > > > > > > As to the Woodson DANIEL connection, I have several theories as to > > how > > > > > they > > > > > > may have started. Firstly, Woodson's daughter Elizabeth did in > fact > > > > marry > > > > > > William CLEMENTS, Grizell's older (half?) brother 15 Mar 1779 in > > Wake > > > > > Cty., NC. > > > > > > Secondly, Mary Rowan DANIEL wrote in "The First Families of Henry > > > > County, > > > > > > Georgia" that James (Grizzell's hsbnd.) was son of Woodson DANIEL. > > > > > However, she also > > > > > > states Woodson is out of the Middlesex Cty., Va DANIEL's being a > son > > o > > > f > > > > > > William DANIEL & Elizabeth WATKINS and that Woodson died in > > > Greenville, > > > > > NC. We > > > > > > have pretty much established that Woodson of Wake Cty., NC died in > > > Wake > > > > > Cty by > > > > > > his will and subsequent inventories in court records. Many > believe > > > > > Woodson was > > > > > > son of James DANIEL and Elizabeth WOODSON of Goochland Cty., VA. > > > (Roger > > > > > DANIEL > > > > > > line) and as it has been pointed out on list exchanges previously > > this > > > > has > > > > > > never been conclusively proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have chosen to believe that Woodson was a son of James and > > Elizabeth > > > > > > WOODSON and that James, son of Woodson was James Daniel of Rowan > > Cty., > > > > NC > > > > > who > > > > > > married the widow Rebecca Travis ADDERTON. James and Woodson's > sons > > > > John, > > > > > David, > > > > > > Benjamin are all at times living in Rowan Cty., NC in close > > proximity. > > > > As > > > > > Payne > > > > > > mentioned we have both corresponded with a professional researcher > > > > working > > > > > > for another party to establish the ancestry of one of David's > > > daughters, > > > > > who > > > > > > concurs with this thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > At any rate I have a stronger feeling that James and Grizell > somehow > > > fit > > > > > into > > > > > > the Edmund, Thomas et al. DANIELS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry about butchering the spelling of Grizell earlier. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > > > > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like > > to > > > > > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > > > suggestion > > > > > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel > free > > to > > > > > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > > > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you > > change > > > > the subject of a reply message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > > DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting of > > > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral > families > > or > > > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- are > not > > > allowed on this list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > > the subject of a reply message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. > > > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting of messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral families or those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- are not allowed on this list. >