P. A. Miller wrote some great stuff. List (and Pam) Pam, I will attempt to answer some of the questions you posed in your post. Israel & Elizabeth were in Edgecomb as early as 1758 where a court document lists them as orphans of William West & Martha. Martha had remarried (to William West…. really) and William was appointed Guardian. Interestingly one of the securities was Benjamin Culpepper, grandfather of Mary Culpepper, wife of David Sion Daniel. The William Daniel you see in 1740 must have been producing Bertie Co., records at that time. There was a very active William in Bertie which I believe to be Simon's brother but I am not aware if he came as far west as what is now Nash. The property sold by West, Ephraim & Patsy was described as "300 acres on the north side of Rockey Swamp (another document says west of RS) , which William WALLACE acquired 28 Apr 1740". These three were not the only children; in 1795 Shepherd sold his inheritance from Israel West, in 1797 Milly, whose guardian was Sarah Edwards (dau. Of Peter that married Hugh Edwards?) sold and in 1802 Margaret (Peggy) and her husband Jonathan Wiseman sold her inheritance with the sale being examined by Peggy in Lexington in Rowan Co. In every case the properties were sold to James Judge. I agree if James of Edgecombe/Halifax and James of Nash are the same his movements appear strange. However, it may be just movement between two Brunswick “pods”. The Howell Flewellen (Ellen) relationship seems to be present in both pods. I believe the following two independent judgments (one from Nash) against the same folks suggest some relationship between Frederick & James: 776-(647) Peter MORGAN sheriff of Halifax Co. to Willie DANIEL 14 Aug 1797. By judgments from Nash Co. in favor of Howell F. ELLEN guardian against the executors of John JONES dec'd; & in favor of David DANIEL (?) guardian; and in favor of Frederick DANIEL; and in favor of George REEVES. The court order was Aug Ct 1797. sd Willie DANIEL became highest bidder for slaves Beck, Lacy. P. MORGAN. Wit: Lewis DANIEL, Robert COCHRAN. Nov Ct. 1800. L. LONG CCt. [Willie & Lewis were sons of William who married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick and later Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do know from his pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in Nash when he enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's Halifax will.] 871-(723) Peter MORGAN high sheriff of Halifax Co, to Isaac HILLIARD, 6 May 1801. Tamarlane JONES by his guardian Allen JONES recovered against the heirs of John JONES, Sr. dec'd; John JONES, Robert JONES, Willie JONES, Judith JONES (widow). Also Sarah EDWARDS guardian of Milly DANIEL recovered against John, Willey, & Robt JONES as heirs of John JONES Sr. dec'd. Sd HILLIARD was highest bidder at 1900 pounds. 370 acres surveyed by THOMAS to sd John JONES dec'd. joining Fishing Creek, Robert INMAN; 100 acres conveyed by CLARK to John JONES, dec'd., joining sd CLARK, Caleb ETHERIDGE; 50 acres conveyed by CLARK to John JONES dec'd, joining ETHERIDGE, sd CLRK, Fishing Creek. P. MORGAN. Wit: John CROWELL, Charles W. GEE for HARRIS, P. BROWNE. John HALL, L. C>C.C.S.E. [Milly is dau of James Daniel & Elizabeth West. Although I can't be certain Sarah Edwards may be Peter Daniel's dau that married Hugh Edwards.] As I was researching these families what gave me a problem was the Davids. As Pam mentions the more prominent David has no apparent connection (that I could establish) to either the Peter Daniel crowd or to Frederick. There is however, a David Daniel very prominent in the affairs of Frederick and James in Nash Co. I wish I could say that this David was David Sion Daniel, who based on his wife Mary’s (Culpepper) app for his RW pension states says that he was son of Peter Daniel of Halifax. Other than the pension app I have learned very little about this David but the circumstances are such that this may have been him in Nash and there was a case (the property James sold to Peter) that his name appears in a Halifax document. We know for a RW pension app fact that Frederick was born in Brunswick Co., VA. More later. Mike

Hey, Mike, Payne, and all I spy a quick glitch on the Williams. The William of Brunswick VA whose estate was inventoried in 1792 is the William of the 1786 will, wife Ann, chn George, John, Drury, James, Ellick. In the will he lends Ann slaves Jacob, Sue, and Liddia. The 1792 inventory includes slaves Jacob and Liddie. This William's land as described in the will is on the Piney Branch, consisting of 150a on the southwest side and 67a on the northeast. These lands are covered in: Brunsw DB8-248 Thomas Stone to William Daniel, both of Brunsw, wr 21 Sep 1765, £10 current money of VA, 125a in Brunsw, bd Caleb Lindsey, part of a patent granted to Thomas Stone date at Williamsburgh 20 Jun 1760. wit James Moore Senr, James Moore Junr, James Elmoore, recd 24 Sep 1765. Brunsw DB8-378 "A List of Surveys made from Jun 1764 to Jun3 1765." ...surveyed for William Daniel 92 acres, joining Stone & others. [Part of the entry and warrant process. William Daniel received the patent for 92a Brunswick county adj Lacy and Barrow on 10 Jul 1767, Patent Bk 36, p. 1051.] [these add up to exactly what William bequeathed in 1786] It's the other William of Brunswick VA who is son of Peter, had wf Sarah, who sold out and went to Halifax NC: Brunsw DB6-299 William Daniel & wf Sarah to Robert Short, all of St Andrews Brunsw, wr 17 Oct 1758, £30 current money of VA, 68a in Brunsw so side of Nottoway Rv, bd Howz's line, Peter Daniel. Wit Peter Daniel Senr, John Avery, Peter Daniel Junr. recd 28 Nov 1758 Brunsw DB6-536 Robert (X) Short Sr of St Andrew Par in Brunswick co to Caleb Vaughan of Bath Par in Dinwiddie co. 23 Jun 1760, 23 Jun 1760, £60, 68a which was part of a 532a patent to Peter Daniel 20 Mar 1745, on Crablouse Creek; the sd 68a having been given as a deed of gift by sd Peter Daniel to his son William Daniel who sold it to sd Robert Short. wit Robert Campbell, Thos Stone, Thos Jackson. Wf of sd Robert Short [no name given] relinq right of dower. I see on your site where Tom Valentine speaks differently on the above records and relationship of Peter and William, but that's the reading I got from the original deeds, a third pair of eyes needs to look at them. I always sense a nice gap in the Brunswick records for the two Williams that tells me the William who stayed there was just coming active or just arrived in 1764/5, my impression is more that he's coming active. I can't locate Piney Branch, but there's a Thomas Stone involved with both Williams, for good or for bad. Payne, the age thing you mention about James is very telling. I just can't see where it's the same James, having kids in the 1750s (Frederick, et al) and on through to the 1780s (West and the younger ones). OK, it could be the same James and two wives and families, but no evidence jumps out for that. Mike, the Brunswick "pod" families is very satisfying! Payne, another posit (same as Mike's, but his most recent reply didn't thread with yours), or at least a question that differs from what you describe, how/why is the William of Halifax tied to the Tyrrell/Lanier group? I've read Tom's further comments about this William, but it sure looks that the William, wf Sarah, of Halifax (i.e. son of Peter of Brunswick) is the same as the William of the 1796/1800 will with children Archibald, Lewis, Willie, Ritter Saxon, etc. Besides the tight ties to the Brunswick group on Burnt Coat (Peter and Randal, etc.), I'm putting together from the records (much matching Tom's layout except the connection to Tyrrell) that Anne Daniel, d/o Judith Brinkley was married to Lewis, and their daughter's name - Sarah Brown Daniel (md. Jones) - is a namesake for Sarah Brown, wf of Peter Daniel of Brunswick, also that William's daughter Frances is a namesake from the same Brown family. I know others said that this William had first wife Martha Jones and Tom unravels that. And I follow his description of the contemporary Williams with sons Willie/Wiley (I don't have records about the Willie thing though, so can't offer independent verification of the idea). I just don't see what puts the William of Halifax as from the Tyrrell gang. Tom says the William of Beaufort/Pitt is last seen in 1755, but there's a William Daniel as chain carrier in 1760 Beaufort grants, no clue that it's the same or a different William Daniel but the land is in St. Thomas Parish if that helps relate to or distinguish from the Daniel/Lanier group. The only two Williams I see in the 1786 census are the ones in Halifax and the one in Martin, have I missed one in Edgecombe; is there a list for Edgecombe in the 1786 census? I think the two William Daniels in the 1790 Edgecombe census are the ones way south in what will become Wilson Co, i.e. all clumped in the D list: Asa, David, Joseph (all Daniel), skip William Dickinson, then Rebeccah (she's the widow of William Daniel), Joseph, William (all Daniel), skip Joseph Barnes, then Levi Daniel, skip John and James Davis, then Nathan and Samuel Daniel. One group of them could be the ones on Little Swamp (1762 grant), the other the ones further south on Black Creek (the Northampton gang, yes?). The 1790 Halifax William Daniel is nicely nestled in the district with Lewis, Archibald, Willie, and all the good collateral names to be Burnt Coat, so he's clear, but old mystery friend Starling is also there much later in the list. I'm ignoring the Toisnot William and kin in all this because they seem clear and isolated, but there are other/more Williams running around than have begun to be accounted for, betcha. Add to the mix the DNA blips (12104/15958 or 4327, and ysearch's QB4GZ) for the Tyrrell folk and there's a ways to go. Mike, thanks for the Israel West and James Daniel records! I'm not at all surprised about the double West marriage, the number of West branches and possibly different lines in the area is staggering to me. I'm still ruminating the whole James and Elizabeth West thing, but I'm more inclined for the moment to think there's two James. Gotta go meditate some more (translation: need chocolate). Later, Pam in CA (Sorry, I can't see a reasonable way to snip the originals on this one.) Payne Daniel wrote: > Mike's stuff is great as well! > > Mike, we may a scenario something like this. If the date of birth for > James Daniel of Nash can be established to be about 1725 (Brunswick) > then he may be the father of Frederick Daniel of Brunswick/Nash who was > born 2 Mar 1755. Also, the Elizabeth "Polly" Daniel born about 1754 was > probably the daughter of James and the sister of Frederick. She married > the well traveled Howell Flewellen, well traveled in the way he was > involved in everybody's business. [13 July 1772 - Howell FLEWELLIN of > Halifax Co was deeded land in Edgecombe Co, NC. 26 Nov. 1778 - Howell > was bondsman for the marriage of Elizabeth POWELL and Frederick DANIEL > in Nash Co, NC. Late 1780s - Howell was administrator for the estate of > James DANIEL. 17 Oct 1805 - Howell FLEWELLEN Estate probated in Nash Co, > NC, names wife, Elizabeth and children. His will mentions his "land an > plantation lying on the east side of beaver dam branch my Hunt > plantation and my mill".] Ellen/Flewellen is the same cat! > > I have cousin Judy's compilation on Frederick that is 3 inches thick and > his parentage therein is unknown. > > Lets look at this statement: [Willie & Lewis were sons of William who > married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick and later > Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do know from his > pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in Nash when he > enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's Halifax will.] > > Now, there was a William Daniel born in Bertie in 1732 who was the son > of Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier, and he married a Sarah. He had > sons named Lewis and Wiley (Willie) Daniel; any chance there is a mix up > here? > The will for William, son of Peter was inventoried in 1792 when he died > in Brunswick Co., Virginia, and the will for William Daniel of Halifax > was signed in 1796 and he died in December 1797 and his estate was > inventoried in 1798) > > Gotta run, check on those children?? Payne > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] James Daniel & Elizabeth West thoughts > > >> >> >> P. A. Miller wrote some great stuff. >> >> List (and Pam) >> >> Pam, I will attempt to answer some of the questions you posed in your >> post. >> >> Israel & Elizabeth were in Edgecomb as early as 1758 where a court >> document lists them as orphans of William West & Martha. Martha had >> remarried (to William West…. really) and William was appointed >> Guardian. Interestingly one of the securities was Benjamin Culpepper, >> grandfather of Mary Culpepper, wife of David Sion Daniel. >> >> The William Daniel you see in 1740 must have been producing Bertie >> Co., records at that time. There was a very active William in Bertie >> which I believe to be Simon's brother but I am not aware if he came as >> far west as what is now Nash. >> >> The property sold by West, Ephraim & Patsy was described as "300 acres >> on the north side of Rockey Swamp (another document says west of RS) , >> which William WALLACE acquired 28 Apr 1740". These three were not the >> only children; in 1795 Shepherd sold his inheritance from Israel West, >> in 1797 Milly, whose guardian was Sarah Edwards (dau. Of Peter that >> married Hugh Edwards?) sold and in 1802 Margaret (Peggy) and her >> husband Jonathan Wiseman sold her inheritance with the sale being >> examined by Peggy in Lexington in Rowan Co. In every case the >> properties were sold to James Judge. >> >> I agree if James of Edgecombe/Halifax and James of Nash are the same >> his movements appear strange. However, it may be just movement >> between two Brunswick “pods”. The Howell Flewellen (Ellen) >> relationship seems to be present in both pods. >> >> I believe the following two independent judgments (one from Nash) >> against the same folks suggest some relationship between Frederick & >> James: >> >> 776-(647) Peter MORGAN sheriff of Halifax Co. to Willie DANIEL 14 Aug >> 1797. By judgments from Nash Co. in favor of Howell F. ELLEN guardian >> against the executors of John JONES dec'd; & in favor of David DANIEL >> (?) guardian; and in favor of Frederick DANIEL; and in favor of George >> REEVES. The court order was Aug Ct 1797. sd Willie DANIEL became >> highest bidder for slaves Beck, Lacy. P. MORGAN. Wit: Lewis DANIEL, >> Robert COCHRAN. Nov Ct. 1800. L. LONG CCt. [Willie & Lewis were sons >> of William who married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick >> and later Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do >> know from his pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in >> Nash when he enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's >> Halifax will.] >> >> >> 871-(723) Peter MORGAN high sheriff of Halifax Co, to Isaac HILLIARD, >> 6 May 1801. Tamarlane JONES by his guardian Allen JONES recovered >> against the heirs of John JONES, Sr. dec'd; John JONES, Robert JONES, >> Willie JONES, Judith JONES (widow). Also Sarah EDWARDS guardian of >> Milly DANIEL recovered against John, Willey, & Robt JONES as heirs of >> John JONES Sr. dec'd. Sd HILLIARD was highest bidder at 1900 pounds. >> 370 acres surveyed by THOMAS to sd John JONES dec'd. joining Fishing >> Creek, Robert INMAN; 100 acres conveyed by CLARK to John JONES, >> dec'd., joining sd CLARK, Caleb ETHERIDGE; 50 acres conveyed by CLARK >> to John JONES dec'd, joining ETHERIDGE, sd CLRK, Fishing Creek. P. >> MORGAN. Wit: John CROWELL, Charles W. GEE for HARRIS, P. BROWNE. John >> HALL, L. C>C.C.S.E. [Milly is dau of James Daniel & Elizabeth West. >> Although I can't be certain Sarah Edwards may be Peter Daniel's dau >> that married Hugh Edwards.] >> >> As I was researching these families what gave me a problem was the >> Davids. As Pam mentions the more prominent David has no apparent >> connection (that I could establish) to either the Peter Daniel crowd >> or to Frederick. There is however, a David Daniel very prominent in >> the affairs of Frederick and James in Nash Co. I wish I could say >> that this David was David Sion Daniel, who based on his wife Mary’s >> (Culpepper) app for his RW pension states says that he was son of >> Peter Daniel of Halifax. Other than the pension app I have learned >> very little about this David but the circumstances are such that this >> may have been him in Nash and there was a case (the property James >> sold to Peter) that his name appears in a Halifax document. We know >> for a RW pension app fact that Frederick was born in Brunswick Co., VA. >> >> More later. >> >> Mike >>

If the scenario needs a fixin, it will be fixed as per your comments. I will let Tom know what's up since his name is mentioned. Many thanks, Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. A. Miller" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] James Daniel & Elizabeth West thoughts > Hey, Mike, Payne, and all > > I spy a quick glitch on the Williams. > > The William of Brunswick VA whose estate was inventoried in 1792 is the > William of the 1786 will, wife Ann, chn George, John, Drury, James, > Ellick. In the will he lends Ann slaves Jacob, Sue, and Liddia. The 1792 > inventory includes slaves Jacob and Liddie. This William's land as > described in the will is on the Piney Branch, consisting of 150a on the > southwest side and 67a on the northeast. These lands are covered in: > > Brunsw DB8-248 Thomas Stone to William Daniel, both of Brunsw, wr 21 Sep > 1765, £10 current money of VA, 125a in Brunsw, bd Caleb Lindsey, part of a > patent granted to Thomas Stone date at Williamsburgh 20 Jun 1760. wit > James Moore Senr, James Moore Junr, James Elmoore, recd 24 Sep 1765. > > Brunsw DB8-378 "A List of Surveys made from Jun 1764 to Jun3 1765." > ...surveyed for William Daniel 92 acres, joining Stone & others. > [Part of the entry and warrant process. William Daniel received the patent > for 92a Brunswick county adj Lacy and Barrow on 10 Jul 1767, Patent Bk 36, > p. 1051.] > > [these add up to exactly what William bequeathed in 1786] > > It's the other William of Brunswick VA who is son of Peter, had wf Sarah, > who sold out and went to Halifax NC: > > Brunsw DB6-299 William Daniel & wf Sarah to Robert Short, all of St > Andrews Brunsw, wr 17 Oct 1758, £30 current money of VA, 68a in Brunsw so > side of Nottoway Rv, bd Howz's line, Peter Daniel. Wit Peter Daniel Senr, > John Avery, Peter Daniel Junr. recd 28 Nov 1758 > > Brunsw DB6-536 Robert (X) Short Sr of St Andrew Par in Brunswick co to > Caleb Vaughan of Bath Par in Dinwiddie co. 23 Jun 1760, 23 Jun 1760, £60, > 68a which was part of a 532a patent to Peter Daniel 20 Mar 1745, on > Crablouse Creek; the sd 68a having been given as a deed of gift by sd > Peter Daniel to his son William Daniel who sold it to sd Robert Short. wit > Robert Campbell, Thos Stone, Thos Jackson. Wf of sd Robert Short [no name > given] relinq right of dower. > > I see on your site where Tom Valentine speaks differently on the above > records and relationship of Peter and William, but that's the reading I > got from the original deeds, a third pair of eyes needs to look at them. > > I always sense a nice gap in the Brunswick records for the two Williams > that tells me the William who stayed there was just coming active or just > arrived in 1764/5, my impression is more that he's coming active. I can't > locate Piney Branch, but there's a Thomas Stone involved with both > Williams, for good or for bad. > > Payne, the age thing you mention about James is very telling. I just can't > see where it's the same James, having kids in the 1750s (Frederick, et al) > and on through to the 1780s (West and the younger ones). OK, it could be > the same James and two wives and families, but no evidence jumps out for > that. Mike, the Brunswick "pod" families is very satisfying! > > Payne, another posit (same as Mike's, but his most recent reply didn't > thread with yours), or at least a question that differs from what you > describe, how/why is the William of Halifax tied to the Tyrrell/Lanier > group? I've read Tom's further comments about this William, but it sure > looks that the William, wf Sarah, of Halifax (i.e. son of Peter of > Brunswick) is the same as the William of the 1796/1800 will with children > Archibald, Lewis, Willie, Ritter Saxon, etc. Besides the tight ties to the > Brunswick group on Burnt Coat (Peter and Randal, etc.), I'm putting > together from the records (much matching Tom's layout except the > connection to Tyrrell) that Anne Daniel, d/o Judith Brinkley was married > to Lewis, and their daughter's name - Sarah Brown Daniel (md. Jones) - is > a namesake for Sarah Brown, wf of Peter Daniel of Brunswick, also that > William's daughter Frances is a namesake from the same Brown family. I > know others said that this William had first wife Martha Jones and Tom > unravels that. And I follow his description of the contemporary Williams > with sons Willie/Wiley (I don't have records about the Willie thing > though, so can't offer independent verification of the idea). I just don't > see what puts the William of Halifax as from the Tyrrell gang. Tom says > the William of Beaufort/Pitt is last seen in 1755, but there's a William > Daniel as chain carrier in 1760 Beaufort grants, no clue that it's the > same or a different William Daniel but the land is in St. Thomas Parish if > that helps relate to or distinguish from the Daniel/Lanier group. > > The only two Williams I see in the 1786 census are the ones in Halifax and > the one in Martin, have I missed one in Edgecombe; is there a list for > Edgecombe in the 1786 census? I think the two William Daniels in the 1790 > Edgecombe census are the ones way south in what will become Wilson Co, > i.e. all clumped in the D list: Asa, David, Joseph (all Daniel), skip > William Dickinson, then Rebeccah (she's the widow of William Daniel), > Joseph, William (all Daniel), skip Joseph Barnes, then Levi Daniel, skip > John and James Davis, then Nathan and Samuel Daniel. One group of them > could be the ones on Little Swamp (1762 grant), the other the ones further > south on Black Creek (the Northampton gang, yes?). The 1790 Halifax > William Daniel is nicely nestled in the district with Lewis, Archibald, > Willie, and all the good collateral names to be Burnt Coat, so he's clear, > but old mystery friend Starling is also there much later in the list. > > I'm ignoring the Toisnot William and kin in all this because they seem > clear and isolated, but there are other/more Williams running around than > have begun to be accounted for, betcha. Add to the mix the DNA blips > (12104/15958 or 4327, and ysearch's QB4GZ) for the Tyrrell folk and > there's a ways to go. > > Mike, thanks for the Israel West and James Daniel records! I'm not at all > surprised about the double West marriage, the number of West branches and > possibly different lines in the area is staggering to me. I'm still > ruminating the whole James and Elizabeth West thing, but I'm more inclined > for the moment to think there's two James. Gotta go meditate some more > (translation: need chocolate). > > Later, > Pam in CA > (Sorry, I can't see a reasonable way to snip the originals on this one.) > > > Payne Daniel wrote: > > Mike's stuff is great as well! > > > > Mike, we may a scenario something like this. If the date of birth for > > James Daniel of Nash can be established to be about 1725 (Brunswick) > > then he may be the father of Frederick Daniel of Brunswick/Nash who was > > born 2 Mar 1755. Also, the Elizabeth "Polly" Daniel born about 1754 was > > probably the daughter of James and the sister of Frederick. She married > > the well traveled Howell Flewellen, well traveled in the way he was > > involved in everybody's business. [13 July 1772 - Howell FLEWELLIN of > > Halifax Co was deeded land in Edgecombe Co, NC. 26 Nov. 1778 - Howell > > was bondsman for the marriage of Elizabeth POWELL and Frederick DANIEL > > in Nash Co, NC. Late 1780s - Howell was administrator for the estate of > > James DANIEL. 17 Oct 1805 - Howell FLEWELLEN Estate probated in Nash Co, > > NC, names wife, Elizabeth and children. His will mentions his "land an > > plantation lying on the east side of beaver dam branch my Hunt > > plantation and my mill".] Ellen/Flewellen is the same cat! > > > > I have cousin Judy's compilation on Frederick that is 3 inches thick and > > his parentage therein is unknown. > > > > Lets look at this statement: [Willie & Lewis were sons of William who > > married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick and later > > Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do know from his > > pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in Nash when he > > enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's Halifax will.] > > > > Now, there was a William Daniel born in Bertie in 1732 who was the son > > of Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier, and he married a Sarah. He had > > sons named Lewis and Wiley (Willie) Daniel; any chance there is a mix up > > here? > > The will for William, son of Peter was inventoried in 1792 when he died > > in Brunswick Co., Virginia, and the will for William Daniel of Halifax > > was signed in 1796 and he died in December 1797 and his estate was > > inventoried in 1798) > > > > Gotta run, check on those children?? Payne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] James Daniel & Elizabeth West thoughts > > > > > >> > >> > >> P. A. Miller wrote some great stuff. > >> > >> List (and Pam) > >> > >> Pam, I will attempt to answer some of the questions you posed in your > >> post. > >> > >> Israel & Elizabeth were in Edgecomb as early as 1758 where a court > >> document lists them as orphans of William West & Martha. Martha had > >> remarried (to William West…. really) and William was appointed > >> Guardian. Interestingly one of the securities was Benjamin Culpepper, > >> grandfather of Mary Culpepper, wife of David Sion Daniel. > >> > >> The William Daniel you see in 1740 must have been producing Bertie > >> Co., records at that time. There was a very active William in Bertie > >> which I believe to be Simon's brother but I am not aware if he came as > >> far west as what is now Nash. > >> > >> The property sold by West, Ephraim & Patsy was described as "300 acres > >> on the north side of Rockey Swamp (another document says west of RS) , > >> which William WALLACE acquired 28 Apr 1740". These three were not the > >> only children; in 1795 Shepherd sold his inheritance from Israel West, > >> in 1797 Milly, whose guardian was Sarah Edwards (dau. Of Peter that > >> married Hugh Edwards?) sold and in 1802 Margaret (Peggy) and her > >> husband Jonathan Wiseman sold her inheritance with the sale being > >> examined by Peggy in Lexington in Rowan Co. In every case the > >> properties were sold to James Judge. > >> > >> I agree if James of Edgecombe/Halifax and James of Nash are the same > >> his movements appear strange. However, it may be just movement > >> between two Brunswick “pods”. The Howell Flewellen (Ellen) > >> relationship seems to be present in both pods. > >> > >> I believe the following two independent judgments (one from Nash) > >> against the same folks suggest some relationship between Frederick & > >> James: > >> > >> 776-(647) Peter MORGAN sheriff of Halifax Co. to Willie DANIEL 14 Aug > >> 1797. By judgments from Nash Co. in favor of Howell F. ELLEN guardian > >> against the executors of John JONES dec'd; & in favor of David DANIEL > >> (?) guardian; and in favor of Frederick DANIEL; and in favor of George > >> REEVES. The court order was Aug Ct 1797. sd Willie DANIEL became > >> highest bidder for slaves Beck, Lacy. P. MORGAN. Wit: Lewis DANIEL, > >> Robert COCHRAN. Nov Ct. 1800. L. LONG CCt. [Willie & Lewis were sons > >> of William who married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick > >> and later Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do > >> know from his pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in > >> Nash when he enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's > >> Halifax will.] > >> > >> > >> 871-(723) Peter MORGAN high sheriff of Halifax Co, to Isaac HILLIARD, > >> 6 May 1801. Tamarlane JONES by his guardian Allen JONES recovered > >> against the heirs of John JONES, Sr. dec'd; John JONES, Robert JONES, > >> Willie JONES, Judith JONES (widow). Also Sarah EDWARDS guardian of > >> Milly DANIEL recovered against John, Willey, & Robt JONES as heirs of > >> John JONES Sr. dec'd. Sd HILLIARD was highest bidder at 1900 pounds. > >> 370 acres surveyed by THOMAS to sd John JONES dec'd. joining Fishing > >> Creek, Robert INMAN; 100 acres conveyed by CLARK to John JONES, > >> dec'd., joining sd CLARK, Caleb ETHERIDGE; 50 acres conveyed by CLARK > >> to John JONES dec'd, joining ETHERIDGE, sd CLRK, Fishing Creek. P. > >> MORGAN. Wit: John CROWELL, Charles W. GEE for HARRIS, P. BROWNE. John > >> HALL, L. C>C.C.S.E. [Milly is dau of James Daniel & Elizabeth West. > >> Although I can't be certain Sarah Edwards may be Peter Daniel's dau > >> that married Hugh Edwards.] > >> > >> As I was researching these families what gave me a problem was the > >> Davids. As Pam mentions the more prominent David has no apparent > >> connection (that I could establish) to either the Peter Daniel crowd > >> or to Frederick. There is however, a David Daniel very prominent in > >> the affairs of Frederick and James in Nash Co. I wish I could say > >> that this David was David Sion Daniel, who based on his wife Mary’s > >> (Culpepper) app for his RW pension states says that he was son of > >> Peter Daniel of Halifax. Other than the pension app I have learned > >> very little about this David but the circumstances are such that this > >> may have been him in Nash and there was a case (the property James > >> sold to Peter) that his name appears in a Halifax document. We know > >> for a RW pension app fact that Frederick was born in Brunswick Co., VA. > >> > >> More later. > >> > >> Mike > >> > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is [email protected] >

A list member has reminded me of a saying: As the old sailor once, or more, said, "If you are not making waves, then your boat isn't moving." I guess I made waves when I discovered that I had an introductory statement for William of Halifax mixed up with William of Brunswick. The "third eye" Pam opened my eyes to that miscue. In regard to the remarks about the birth of James of Nash, well spoken Pam; I agree, but I will leave him in that position as a reminder that we need to solve the parentage of Frederick. Anyone know of a William of Brunswick who may qualify as the father of Frederick of Brunswick/Nash/etc? I have been concerned at times about the assignment of William of Halifax to the Tyrrell County Thomas Daniel family. A William out of the Halifax Daniels is more likely to be a collateral family member of mine than a William out of Tyrrell. There are too many variables here for me to weigh into this possibility right now; but I will eventually. I am shutting down my mess for the month of May and may or may not resolve the issue before we head out. Another thing, did Simon Daniel II and Elizabeth Bentley produce the so called *William Daniel of Edgecombe Co., NC? Was he married to Sarah Wells or was the so called William of Halifax (1797) married to Sarah Wells? [*This William appears to be the William who married Sarah Wells the daughter of Thomas Wells whose Will was recorded in Edgecombe County August Court and who had a son named Francis Daniel. Edgecombe Co., NC, Will book (not identified):] There was a William of Edgecombe, right? Edgecombe Co., NC, Deed Book 8, Page 129: William Daniel of Edgecombe County, Elijah Daniel of Glasgow County, North Carolina and Simon Daniel, Thomas Bateman, Michael Ward and John Harper of Salem County, South Carolina, joint Bill of Sale to Jacob Barnes of Edgecombe County, North Carolina. 15 February 1793. I admit that sorting out the Williams as been very interesting and I may need to change a thing or two but I haven't had the resources to totally make the picture clear. Pam and Mike have been very valuable to me with that form of help. So the "Old Compiler" must adjust the "little gray cells" to further put these possibilities in order. Cheers, Payne PS Pam and Mike; fantastic ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. A. Miller" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] James Daniel & Elizabeth West thoughts > Hey, Mike, Payne, and all > > I spy a quick glitch on the Williams. > > The William of Brunswick VA whose estate was inventoried in 1792 is the > William of the 1786 will, wife Ann, chn George, John, Drury, James, > Ellick. In the will he lends Ann slaves Jacob, Sue, and Liddia. The 1792 > inventory includes slaves Jacob and Liddie. This William's land as > described in the will is on the Piney Branch, consisting of 150a on the > southwest side and 67a on the northeast. These lands are covered in: > > Brunsw DB8-248 Thomas Stone to William Daniel, both of Brunsw, wr 21 Sep > 1765, £10 current money of VA, 125a in Brunsw, bd Caleb Lindsey, part of a > patent granted to Thomas Stone date at Williamsburgh 20 Jun 1760. wit > James Moore Senr, James Moore Junr, James Elmoore, recd 24 Sep 1765. > > Brunsw DB8-378 "A List of Surveys made from Jun 1764 to Jun3 1765." > ...surveyed for William Daniel 92 acres, joining Stone & others. > [Part of the entry and warrant process. William Daniel received the patent > for 92a Brunswick county adj Lacy and Barrow on 10 Jul 1767, Patent Bk 36, > p. 1051.] > > [these add up to exactly what William bequeathed in 1786] > > It's the other William of Brunswick VA who is son of Peter, had wf Sarah, > who sold out and went to Halifax NC: > > Brunsw DB6-299 William Daniel & wf Sarah to Robert Short, all of St > Andrews Brunsw, wr 17 Oct 1758, £30 current money of VA, 68a in Brunsw so > side of Nottoway Rv, bd Howz's line, Peter Daniel. Wit Peter Daniel Senr, > John Avery, Peter Daniel Junr. recd 28 Nov 1758 > > Brunsw DB6-536 Robert (X) Short Sr of St Andrew Par in Brunswick co to > Caleb Vaughan of Bath Par in Dinwiddie co. 23 Jun 1760, 23 Jun 1760, £60, > 68a which was part of a 532a patent to Peter Daniel 20 Mar 1745, on > Crablouse Creek; the sd 68a having been given as a deed of gift by sd > Peter Daniel to his son William Daniel who sold it to sd Robert Short. wit > Robert Campbell, Thos Stone, Thos Jackson. Wf of sd Robert Short [no name > given] relinq right of dower. > > I see on your site where Tom Valentine speaks differently on the above > records and relationship of Peter and William, but that's the reading I > got from the original deeds, a third pair of eyes needs to look at them. > > I always sense a nice gap in the Brunswick records for the two Williams > that tells me the William who stayed there was just coming active or just > arrived in 1764/5, my impression is more that he's coming active. I can't > locate Piney Branch, but there's a Thomas Stone involved with both > Williams, for good or for bad. > > Payne, the age thing you mention about James is very telling. I just can't > see where it's the same James, having kids in the 1750s (Frederick, et al) > and on through to the 1780s (West and the younger ones). OK, it could be > the same James and two wives and families, but no evidence jumps out for > that. Mike, the Brunswick "pod" families is very satisfying! > > Payne, another posit (same as Mike's, but his most recent reply didn't > thread with yours), or at least a question that differs from what you > describe, how/why is the William of Halifax tied to the Tyrrell/Lanier > group? I've read Tom's further comments about this William, but it sure > looks that the William, wf Sarah, of Halifax (i.e. son of Peter of > Brunswick) is the same as the William of the 1796/1800 will with children > Archibald, Lewis, Willie, Ritter Saxon, etc. Besides the tight ties to the > Brunswick group on Burnt Coat (Peter and Randal, etc.), I'm putting > together from the records (much matching Tom's layout except the > connection to Tyrrell) that Anne Daniel, d/o Judith Brinkley was married > to Lewis, and their daughter's name - Sarah Brown Daniel (md. Jones) - is > a namesake for Sarah Brown, wf of Peter Daniel of Brunswick, also that > William's daughter Frances is a namesake from the same Brown family. I > know others said that this William had first wife Martha Jones and Tom > unravels that. And I follow his description of the contemporary Williams > with sons Willie/Wiley (I don't have records about the Willie thing > though, so can't offer independent verification of the idea). I just don't > see what puts the William of Halifax as from the Tyrrell gang. Tom says > the William of Beaufort/Pitt is last seen in 1755, but there's a William > Daniel as chain carrier in 1760 Beaufort grants, no clue that it's the > same or a different William Daniel but the land is in St. Thomas Parish if > that helps relate to or distinguish from the Daniel/Lanier group. > > The only two Williams I see in the 1786 census are the ones in Halifax and > the one in Martin, have I missed one in Edgecombe; is there a list for > Edgecombe in the 1786 census? I think the two William Daniels in the 1790 > Edgecombe census are the ones way south in what will become Wilson Co, > i.e. all clumped in the D list: Asa, David, Joseph (all Daniel), skip > William Dickinson, then Rebeccah (she's the widow of William Daniel), > Joseph, William (all Daniel), skip Joseph Barnes, then Levi Daniel, skip > John and James Davis, then Nathan and Samuel Daniel. One group of them > could be the ones on Little Swamp (1762 grant), the other the ones further > south on Black Creek (the Northampton gang, yes?). The 1790 Halifax > William Daniel is nicely nestled in the district with Lewis, Archibald, > Willie, and all the good collateral names to be Burnt Coat, so he's clear, > but old mystery friend Starling is also there much later in the list. > > I'm ignoring the Toisnot William and kin in all this because they seem > clear and isolated, but there are other/more Williams running around than > have begun to be accounted for, betcha. Add to the mix the DNA blips > (12104/15958 or 4327, and ysearch's QB4GZ) for the Tyrrell folk and > there's a ways to go. > > Mike, thanks for the Israel West and James Daniel records! I'm not at all > surprised about the double West marriage, the number of West branches and > possibly different lines in the area is staggering to me. I'm still > ruminating the whole James and Elizabeth West thing, but I'm more inclined > for the moment to think there's two James. Gotta go meditate some more > (translation: need chocolate). > > Later, > Pam in CA > (Sorry, I can't see a reasonable way to snip the originals on this one.) > > > Payne Daniel wrote: > > Mike's stuff is great as well! > > > > Mike, we may a scenario something like this. If the date of birth for > > James Daniel of Nash can be established to be about 1725 (Brunswick) > > then he may be the father of Frederick Daniel of Brunswick/Nash who was > > born 2 Mar 1755. Also, the Elizabeth "Polly" Daniel born about 1754 was > > probably the daughter of James and the sister of Frederick. She married > > the well traveled Howell Flewellen, well traveled in the way he was > > involved in everybody's business. [13 July 1772 - Howell FLEWELLIN of > > Halifax Co was deeded land in Edgecombe Co, NC. 26 Nov. 1778 - Howell > > was bondsman for the marriage of Elizabeth POWELL and Frederick DANIEL > > in Nash Co, NC. Late 1780s - Howell was administrator for the estate of > > James DANIEL. 17 Oct 1805 - Howell FLEWELLEN Estate probated in Nash Co, > > NC, names wife, Elizabeth and children. His will mentions his "land an > > plantation lying on the east side of beaver dam branch my Hunt > > plantation and my mill".] Ellen/Flewellen is the same cat! > > > > I have cousin Judy's compilation on Frederick that is 3 inches thick and > > his parentage therein is unknown. > > > > Lets look at this statement: [Willie & Lewis were sons of William who > > married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick and later > > Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do know from his > > pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in Nash when he > > enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's Halifax will.] > > > > Now, there was a William Daniel born in Bertie in 1732 who was the son > > of Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier, and he married a Sarah. He had > > sons named Lewis and Wiley (Willie) Daniel; any chance there is a mix up > > here? > > The will for William, son of Peter was inventoried in 1792 when he died > > in Brunswick Co., Virginia, and the will for William Daniel of Halifax > > was signed in 1796 and he died in December 1797 and his estate was > > inventoried in 1798) > > > > Gotta run, check on those children?? Payne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] James Daniel & Elizabeth West thoughts > > > > > >> > >> > >> P. A. Miller wrote some great stuff. > >> > >> List (and Pam) > >> > >> Pam, I will attempt to answer some of the questions you posed in your > >> post. > >> > >> Israel & Elizabeth were in Edgecomb as early as 1758 where a court > >> document lists them as orphans of William West & Martha. Martha had > >> remarried (to William West…. really) and William was appointed > >> Guardian. Interestingly one of the securities was Benjamin Culpepper, > >> grandfather of Mary Culpepper, wife of David Sion Daniel. > >> > >> The William Daniel you see in 1740 must have been producing Bertie > >> Co., records at that time. There was a very active William in Bertie > >> which I believe to be Simon's brother but I am not aware if he came as > >> far west as what is now Nash. > >> > >> The property sold by West, Ephraim & Patsy was described as "300 acres > >> on the north side of Rockey Swamp (another document says west of RS) , > >> which William WALLACE acquired 28 Apr 1740". These three were not the > >> only children; in 1795 Shepherd sold his inheritance from Israel West, > >> in 1797 Milly, whose guardian was Sarah Edwards (dau. Of Peter that > >> married Hugh Edwards?) sold and in 1802 Margaret (Peggy) and her > >> husband Jonathan Wiseman sold her inheritance with the sale being > >> examined by Peggy in Lexington in Rowan Co. In every case the > >> properties were sold to James Judge. > >> > >> I agree if James of Edgecombe/Halifax and James of Nash are the same > >> his movements appear strange. However, it may be just movement > >> between two Brunswick “pods”. The Howell Flewellen (Ellen) > >> relationship seems to be present in both pods. > >> > >> I believe the following two independent judgments (one from Nash) > >> against the same folks suggest some relationship between Frederick & > >> James: > >> > >> 776-(647) Peter MORGAN sheriff of Halifax Co. to Willie DANIEL 14 Aug > >> 1797. By judgments from Nash Co. in favor of Howell F. ELLEN guardian > >> against the executors of John JONES dec'd; & in favor of David DANIEL > >> (?) guardian; and in favor of Frederick DANIEL; and in favor of George > >> REEVES. The court order was Aug Ct 1797. sd Willie DANIEL became > >> highest bidder for slaves Beck, Lacy. P. MORGAN. Wit: Lewis DANIEL, > >> Robert COCHRAN. Nov Ct. 1800. L. LONG CCt. [Willie & Lewis were sons > >> of William who married Sarah who is likely a son of Peter of Brunswick > >> and later Halifax. Although we don't know much about Frederick we do > >> know from his pension app that he was from Brunswick Co. and was in > >> Nash when he enlisted. Howell Allen was executor of James Daniel's > >> Halifax will.] > >> > >> > >> 871-(723) Peter MORGAN high sheriff of Halifax Co, to Isaac HILLIARD, > >> 6 May 1801. Tamarlane JONES by his guardian Allen JONES recovered > >> against the heirs of John JONES, Sr. dec'd; John JONES, Robert JONES, > >> Willie JONES, Judith JONES (widow). Also Sarah EDWARDS guardian of > >> Milly DANIEL recovered against John, Willey, & Robt JONES as heirs of > >> John JONES Sr. dec'd. Sd HILLIARD was highest bidder at 1900 pounds. > >> 370 acres surveyed by THOMAS to sd John JONES dec'd. joining Fishing > >> Creek, Robert INMAN; 100 acres conveyed by CLARK to John JONES, > >> dec'd., joining sd CLARK, Caleb ETHERIDGE; 50 acres conveyed by CLARK > >> to John JONES dec'd, joining ETHERIDGE, sd CLRK, Fishing Creek. P. > >> MORGAN. Wit: John CROWELL, Charles W. GEE for HARRIS, P. BROWNE. John > >> HALL, L. C>C.C.S.E. [Milly is dau of James Daniel & Elizabeth West. > >> Although I can't be certain Sarah Edwards may be Peter Daniel's dau > >> that married Hugh Edwards.] > >> > >> As I was researching these families what gave me a problem was the > >> Davids. As Pam mentions the more prominent David has no apparent > >> connection (that I could establish) to either the Peter Daniel crowd > >> or to Frederick. There is however, a David Daniel very prominent in > >> the affairs of Frederick and James in Nash Co. I wish I could say > >> that this David was David Sion Daniel, who based on his wife Mary’s > >> (Culpepper) app for his RW pension states says that he was son of > >> Peter Daniel of Halifax. Other than the pension app I have learned > >> very little about this David but the circumstances are such that this > >> may have been him in Nash and there was a case (the property James > >> sold to Peter) that his name appears in a Halifax document. We know > >> for a RW pension app fact that Frederick was born in Brunswick Co., VA. > >> > >> More later. > >> > >> Mike > >> > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is [email protected] >