Payne, I am going to pose an hypothesis. Let's say there were three Robert DANIELS in the Pitt, Edgecombe and Beaufort County, NC area in the same time frame. This is supported. Let's say one married a Jemima, possibly WILLIS, one married a Fnu CASON and one married Mary SWAIN. All of these Roberts seem to be connected to the same overall bunch, with the possibly exception of the Robert who married the CASON girl, but even this family has connections back into the ANDREWS, GARDNERS and their associative lines. I do not know who they were and which DANIEL these Roberts descend from. There is no documentary support for Robert DANIEL of Martin to be a son of Simon. There is documentary support for T&E to have a son named Robert Lanier DANIEL in the 1749 will of Thomas DANIEL, although his wife, Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL, just refers to him as Robert DANIEL. The third, I do not know who he was. He may be a son of a DANIEL up in IOW or Surry, that I do not know or he may be a left over DANIEL from that area or some other DANIEL line from Southside or even the Accomack area were the MOORES, CASONS and CANNONS were from, but I think they are three of them and we have the information on all three, commingled which is why it does not make sense. So, this is three of them but there may be more than three. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: [DANIEL-L] That Old Song of Mine > John, I think I understand your suspicions regarding the T&E family > especially Robert Lanier Daniel. We have traversed this set of > possibilities > before but it doesn't hurt to sort them out again. Was one Robert married > to > two ladies, or two Roberts married to a single lady etc.? Were there two > RLDs operating in the area at the same time? Who knows? > > I think, just me, that Robert Lanier Daniel was married to Jemima Willis > and > that Robert Daniel of Martin married Mary Swain. This may be a tiresome > reference but: Robert Lanier Daniel and Jemima both signed Deed Bk 2, pgs > 9-11 in Tyrrell County in 1748 as residents. (Lanier Daniel, of Beaufort > County, on May 17, 1748, sold this land--the same 83 acres in Tyrrell--to > John Lanier (an uncle) of Tyrrell County for 90 pounds. The deed was > signed > by Robert Lanier Daniel and Jemina Daniel (his wife). Witnesses William > Taner, Sarah Sellers, and Michel Wess, -- Ibid., 2, pp. 9-11.) > > Now Robert Daniel of Martin where the Smithwick reference is made to > Robert > Jr. (I start picking up kids at abt 1740 not aft 1760: Will of Robert > Sr.:Will Book No. 1 page 127 Martin County N. C. (Office of Clerk of > Court): > Robert Daniel of Martin Co., N. C. will Sept. 17, 1786. 'My son William > Daniel; son Simon Daniel; my daughter Elizabeth; my daughter Sarah; my son > James Daniel; my daughter Jemiah Daniel; my daughter Chloe Daniel; my sons > William Daniel and Simon Daniel my whole and sole executors. Test: Joshua > Robason, Frederick Godward. Colonial Records of N. C. Vol. VI, page 343 > (byW. L. Saunders): > > Will of Robert Jr (by the statement of his parents): B1P80 Robert DANIELS, > SR,; William DANIEL; Mary DANIEL; swore to Samuel SMITHWICK; justice of > the > peace, that Robert DANIEL, JR. called on them on 7 November 1780 to take > notice that he was going into the service and did not have time to make a > will in writing, but his will and desire, in case he should die, was his > sisters and brothers (not named) were to be given something. men: bro. > James > DANIEL; wit appeared in court 18 August 1782. > > Just for the record, an extract from the will of Elizabeth Daniel that > names > the children of she and Thomas, notice the name Willis as a witness: > > It is my will to give and bequeath to my beloved son Robert Daniel one > stear > yerling. > > Item - to my daughter Sarah Willson I do give and bequeath one stear > yerling. (Note two LLs in Willson~she did not marry Algernon Wilson) > > Item - to my son Thomas Daniel I do give and bequeath one large Bible. > > Item - to my daughter Elisabeth Daniel I do give and bequeath one young > cow > and calf and a fore year old stear a large chest a wollen wheale and a > pare > of cotten cards and a linen wheale. > > Item - to my daughter Mary Ward I give and bequeath one stear yerling and > a > linnen wheale. > > Item - to my son John Daniel I do give and bequeath my manner plantation > and > a fore year old horse a large iron pot and a gun and five dolors. > > Item - to my son Wm Daniel I do give and bequeath my Bay horse caled > Crumel > and a duble lune and a large. (Yes, I think that this William was the one > who wound up in Halifax Co., NC.) > > Item - to my son Aron Daniel I do give and bequeath my black horse caled > Smoaker and a Dublelune a case of bottels and a chest. > > Item - to my daughter Ruth Daniel I do give and bequeath one puter dish > and > three plates. > > Item - to my daughter Pricilah Daniel I do give and bequeath one puter > dish > and three plates. > > Item - to my son Josiah Daniel I do give and bequeath one puter dish and > thre plates. > > Item - to my daughter Ruth and Pricilah and my son Josiah afore mentioned > I > do give and bequeath two cows and yerlings and seven cows and calfs thre > five year stears farther more it is my will to give to my daughter Ruth > Pricilah and my son Josiah one ew and ew lamb and two weathers(?) To be > equaly devided when the said children Ruth Precilah and Josiah do arrive > at > the age of sixteen years farther more it is my will all my cattel should > be > equaly devided that is left ungiven betwen my son John afmd and Aron(?) > Daniel afore mentioned. > > Item - to my grandaughter Elisabeth Daniel I do give and bequeath one two > year hefer. > > Item - to Jerimah Willis the daugher of Wm and Mary Willis I do give and > bequeath one yerling hefer. > > Item - to my daughter Ruth Pricilah and my son Josiah I give and bequeath > the two mares and their increase to be equaly devided when they arrive at > the age of sixteen years farther more it is my will all the rest of my > household furniture and all the utentils one foreland feven shep should be > equaly devided between my daughter Elisabeth my sons John Wm and Aron > afore > mentioned I do nominate chose and apoint my beloved sons Thomas and John > Daniel to be my Executors of this my Last Will and Testament and I farther > will and desesire that there may be no misinterpetations or wrong > constrictions put on this my Last Will and Testament Sined Sealed > published > and Declared this Sixth day of March in the years of our Lord God > everlasting one thousand seven hundred fifty and two. Interlined before > sined. > > Elisabeth (her -x- mark) Daniel > > In the presence of Wm Willis > > John (his -x- mark) Brown Senr > > Mary (her -x- mark) Willis > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > "That you may retain your self-respect, it is better to > displease the people by doing what you know is right, > than to temporarily please them by doing what you know > is wrong." > -- William J. H. Boetcker > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:40 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > > Payne, > My guess is that all of T&E's kids were born in Chowan or Tyrrell > County, NC, so take your pick. Since Edenton, NC was the thriving > metropolis of that area in that time frame, they probably lived somewhere > near Edenton, maybe right across the sound in Tyrrell County, NC, as most > suggest. Remember, the POLLACKS and I assume, CULLENS, lived adjacent to > them, according to deeds of the period. > What I find interesting is that Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL's will was > probated in Beaufort County, NC in 1752. Did she move down from Tyrrell to > be with her oldest son, RLD, after Thomas's death in 1749, since Pitt was > formed from Beaufort and RLD, actually lived right on the border with > Beaufort in Pactolus, Pitt County, NC. This, to me, would be the reason > her will was probated in Beaufort and not in Tyrrell. > What I find a little bit worrisome about Aaron is his connection to > Duplin County, NC but this may be because Matthew WHITFIELD was lived, > there. We do know that Matthew WHITFIELD, his father-in-law, was living > in > the Cheraw area, later, and Aaron seems to have followed him to this part > of > SC. > I think we can straighten out Aaron and Betsy's family but we need some > more information, like accurate vestry records from St. David's Church in > Cheraw, SC. I also know they are on microfilm in the SC archives but I do > not like it when I see his name listed in some family references to this > church and not listed in impartial transcriptions of these church vestry > records. That, tells me something may be amiss, here. Not to forget > there were about three Aaron DANIELS operating in upstate SC in this same > time frame........ > It takes more than just a given name to connect a son or daughter to a > set of parents. If we connect siblings to each other and one of these > siblings to a set of parents, this is sufficient proof to establish the > parents of the rest of these known siblings. However, in thinking back > over > the T&E bunch, I do not think we can tie any of these children back to > T&E. > can we? > I went back and looked at the Robert Lanier DANIEL deed to John LANIER > where his wife was mentioned as a Jemima DANIEL. This has to be the John > LANIER who was a sister of Elizabeth LANIER who married Thomas DANIEL. > The > thing that bothered me was the reference to the SMITHWICK name in this > deed. > Not to forget the Jemima that was a daughter of Robert DANIEL of Martin > County, NC who married Mary SWAIN, whose mother was a SMITHWICK. Notice > the > William SWANNER who was a witness to this deed. > I somehow get the feeling this RLD may not be the RLD we think of later > in Pitt. If he is selling the home place, which requires the wife to sign > away her dower rights, then this Robert may be older than we think. It > could also well be Robert DANIEL of Martin and his first wife, Jemima, and > after her death he married Mary SWAIN born ABT 1722 because I do not start > picking up kids for them until AFT 1760. This would account for the > SMITHWICK connection and the Jemima name connection in this family. > However, this Robert L. DANIELL says he was of Beaufort County, NC and not > Tyrrell County, NC or even Edgecombe. . > If there are more than one RLD's operating in this time frame in this > general area, this may also account for all of the Robert Lanier DANIELS > we > see floating around this area in this time frame. There is something not > right, here, and I do not know quite what it is..... > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:11 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > >>I thought you were suggesting that Aaron was born someplace else, was He? >>As >> to the notes, the originals back at St. David's Church, I haven't an >> opinion >> yet! >> >> Payne >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> Payne, >> Why did you mention the Lenoir County, NC POB for Aaron? I do not >> think >> your notes are cobbled up but these notes that I have for Aaron do not >> compare with the originals back at St. David's Church, although some of >> the >> same names are on both of these sources. >> >> This tells me that someone has added Aaron's name to this list of >> names >> at St. David's Church. Or, Virginia PROCTOR left his name off this list >> for >> some unknown reason. I do not know which is correct but that is what she >> has on the Marlboro County, SC website. This is why the Vestry Records >> of >> St. David's Church need to be looked at and compared against these notes >> to >> see where they differ. >> >> I also found some very interesting deeds on this Marlboro County, SC >> website, especially an 1816 deed for a John DERDEN (below). As I have >> told >> you several times, my grandmother, ended up with Land Lot 74 in Land >> District 19 in Morgan County, GA, formerly part of Baldwin County. This >> was >> land owned by John DURDEN, who went bankrupt in 1873 and his land was >> sold >> at the courthouse square in Madison and guess what he did -- he bought it >> all back, at least LL 74, LD 19. However, guess who ended up with it and >> there is no grantee-grantor record of how she got it? My grandmother, >> Alice >> Daniel RICHTER. Neither Marshall WILLIAMS, archivist of Morgan County, >> nor >> I >> have ever been able to figure this one out. >> >> My opinion is that John DURDEN was some kind of family and Alice took her >> $700 inheritance from her father, Robert W. DANIEL, which she had gotten >> a >> few years before (1867) her marriage to John RICHTER (1872), and bailed >> out >> John DURDEN because the purchase price was $709.25, almost exactly what >> she >> had gotten from her father's estate. Then, after his death, she >> inherited >> the property which is why there is not a Grantor-Grantee record of this >> transaction. >> >> >> Note: There are also some very familiar names in this 1816 SC deed. >> Maybe >> someone will see somthing that I do not. >> >> <<< >> John DERDEN to James FIELDS, 1816 Contributed by Brenda Wagner >> >> John Derden of the District of Chesterfield, for $5000, to James Fields >> of >> the District of Marlboro, 200 acres, a tract granted by Arthur Dobbs to >> Robert Palmer, 10 Oct 1755, and conveyed by Wm. Palmer, attorny, for >> Robert >> Palmer, by lease and release 14 & 15 Dec 1773, to John May Junr, and by >> John >> May Junr. to Wm. Blakeny, 5 March 1791, and from Wm. Blakeny to John >> Derden, >> 12 Aug 1802, on both sides Thomson's Creek, 100 acres, being half of a >> survey of 200 acres granted to Hartwell Weaver, 5 Dec 1791., also one >> other >> parcel, it being a part of 800 acres granted to Abner Lowry, 10 March >> 1791, >> 125 acres, at the first fork of Macks branch, above the school house >> fork, >> adj. John P. Rushing; another tract granted to Benjn. Thermon, 75 acres, >> being the lands whereon I now live at the cross roads or otherwise cauled >> Mount Croghan; also several other pieces or parcels of land containing >> seven >> hundred and forty hacres, originall granted to Gustavas Hendrick, Asey >> Hendrick & Samuel Alsobrooks, and conveyed by sd. Gustavas Hendrick to >> John >> Derden, by deed 22 May 1804, agreeable to a resurvay with the exception >> of >> 116 acres previously sold to James Derden, and 62 to Obediah Meadows; >> also >> one other tract on the North side of Thomsons Creek originally granted to >> David Hendrick, 3 March 1794.18 July 1816. >> >>>>> >> >> John R. Clarke >> Thomasville, GA >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >>> Thanks for the record. I continue to be interested in the dates of birth >>> you >>> have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? I will look at >>> my >>> notes about Aaron but I don't think it's my notes you refer to as >>> "cobbled >>> up", so are those notes from a source not mentioned here.? >>> >>> " It hurts when I swing, and it hurts when I don't." Arnold Palmer, 74 >>> years >>> of age. >>> >>> Payne >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >>> >>> >>>> Payne, >>>> >>>> Someone has really cobbled up these notes about Aaron DANIEL. I went >>>> to >>> the >>>> "hoss's mouth" and looked them up, myself, and he did not join a St. >>> David's >>>> Scottish Presbyterian Church, he seems to have joined the St. David's >>>> Church, a church of the Church of England. Interesting. >>>> >>>> What is even more interesting is Aaron DANIEL was not listed in any of >>>> the >>>> records these sources have listed for him, although the other names, >>>> like >>>> Samuel WISE,. Jesse COUNCIL, and others, are. The vestry notes are at >>>> the >>>> bottom of this page. >>>> >>>> That said, there should be some note of Aaron and Betsy in the vestry >>>> minutes of this church which are in the SC Archives and which have also >>> been >>>> published by Brent HOLCOLMB. >>>> >>>> This is just another example of where folks have cobbled up, commingled >>> and, >>>> it appears, out fabricated some of the stuff you see about Aaron and >>> Betsy. >>>> This is why I have always said, there are those who seem more than >>>> willing >>>> to fabricate their families genealogy to suit their own needs but it is >>>> rather difficult to do so over several other families, as well as when >>> faced >>>> with irrefutable historical documents. >>>> >>>> This information is from the Marlboro County, SC website. : >>>> >>>> <<< >>>> Please note that because the Vestry of St. David's also served the >>> community >>>> as a political body (voting, collecting taxes, etc.), early records >>>> will >>>> contain the names of members of all religious denominations. >>>> >>>> Minutes of the Vestry >>>> April 1768 >>>> The following gentlemen were named Commissioners for the Parish of St. >>>> David's: >>>> >>>> Claudius Pegues Charles Bedingfield >>>> Philip Pledger James James >>>> Alexander Mackintosh Robert Weaver >>>> George Hicks James Thomson >>>> Thomas Ellerbee Thomas Crawford >>>> Robert Alison Thomas Porte >>>> Thomas Lide Benjamin Rogers >>>> >>>> August 1st 1768 >>>> The Commissioners met at the House of Mr. Charles Bedingfield. >>>> Absent were Thomas Ellerbee, Robert Weaver, James Thomson, Thomas >>>> Crawford >>>> and Thomas Porte. >>>> >>>> Declining to act as Commissioners were Alexander Mackintosh, James >>>> James >>>> and Robert Alison. >>>> >>>> Elections were held. >>>> Elected as Vestry Men: >>>> Claudius Pegues, Philip Pledger, William Godfrey, Charles Bedingfield, >>>> Thomas Lide, Thomas Ellerbee, Thomas Bingham >>>> >>>> Elected as Church Wardens: >>>> Alexander Gordon and Benjamin Rogers. >>>> >>>> Durham Hitts was appointed Clerk of the Vestry. >>>> >>>> Electors were: >>>> William Hardwick >>>> Duke Glen >>>> John Mackintosh >>>> John Jenkins >>>> Edward Ellerbee >>>> John Husbands >>>> Thomas Boatright, Senr. >>>> Jesse Counsell >>>> John Pledger >>>> Robert Clary >>>> Robert Anderson >>>> Benjamin Jackson >>>> James Knight >>>> Samuel Wise >>>> James Thursby >>>> Thomas Williams >>>> Thomas Wade >>>> Leonard Dozier >>>> <<< >>>> >>>> John R. Clarke >>>> Thomasville, GA >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> >>>> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:48 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >>>> >>>> >>>> >I take it John that your are stating your opinions and suspicions, and >>>> >by >>>> > the way, what's wrong with Radford, Lenoir, NC, being the birth place >>>> > of >>>> > Aaron Daniel? What list of children do you support for Ensign Aaron >>>> > and >>>> > Elizabeth Whitfield Daniel? According to Ingersol, page 414, Aaron >>>> > was >>>> > born >>>> > in 1739 and died in 1790 in Cheraw District, SC. I am not a fan of >>>> > Ingersol >>>> > so your 1733 may be closer? I would also be interested in the dates >>>> > of >>>> > birth >>>> > you have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? >>>> > >>>> > From lovely New Tampa, Florida. Payne >>>> > >>>> > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and >>>> > statistics." >>>> > -- Benjamin Disraeli >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>>> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:09 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>>> > GA >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Judy, >>>> >> That is correct but Duplin and Sampson County, NC were not what >>>> >> I >>>> > would >>>> >> consider to be "normal stomping grounds" for the Lanier-Daniels. >>>> >> Number one, this Moses has to be at least 16 to be witness of a >>> deed >>>> > and >>>> >> that puts his DOB as 1749, probably closer to 1744, making him at >>>> >> least >>>> >> of >>>> >> majority. This puts him as a contemporary of Aaron and not his son. >>>> > There >>>> >> is no Moses listed in the will of Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL, is >>> there? >>>> >> We also have reports there was an Abraham DANIEL born prior to 1750 >>>> > floating >>>> >> around this bunch and that, too, puts him as a contemporary of Aaron >>> and >>>> >> also not his son. >>>> >> You see we really do not know when Aaron was born, do we? Some >>>> >> say >>>> > 1739 >>>> >> but that is incorrect. He had to be born by 1733 not to be listed >>>> >> as >>>> >> a >>>> >> minor in his father's 1749 will nor was he listed as a minor in his >>>> > mother's >>>> >> 1752 will, was he? That means that he was born at least by 1733, >>>> >> probably >>>> >> before. >>>> >> I also always go with the general rule of Southern families, as >>> these >>>> >> DANIELS were, that parents tend to name their children after a >>>> >> combination >>>> >> of the given names of their father's and mother's families, with a >>>> >> few >>>> > vogue >>>> >> names thrown in from time to time. I also go with the general rule >>> that >>>> >> Yankee families went more towards Bible oriented given names, due to >>>> >> their >>>> >> Puritan influence, than did most Southern folks. >>>> >> Southerners, for the most part, have always gone with tradition, >>> even >>>> >> then. This does not mean there was not an occasional family where >>>> > religion >>>> >> dominated every part of their lives and they would name their >>>> >> children >>>> > after >>>> >> biblical characters because there were these occasional families. >>>> > However, >>>> >> for the most part Southern families were real big in naming their >>>> >> children >>>> >> according to tradition and that tradition indicates they will use >>> family >>>> >> names for their chillen. >>>> >> There were several Biblical names used in the WHITFIELDS that we >>> know >>>> >> of, Matthew and Luke, but their other given names are generally >>>> >> family >>>> >> names. When you go back to the BRYANS, they re-use family names, >>>> >> like >>>> >> water. There are hundreds of Rachels, Penelopes, Williams and >>>> >> Johns. >>>> > Even >>>> >> the WARRENS tended to re-use family names, as best I can tell. >>>> >> So, when I look at what I would think would be the given names >>>> >> for >>>> > Capt. >>>> >> Aaron and Betsy Whitfield DANIEL's kids, I would look at some type >>>> >> of >>>> >> combination of these names as possible given names for their >>>> >> children. >>>> > Yet, >>>> >> we do not see these names used in this family to any degree. That >>> makes >>>> > me >>>> >> really wonder about this DANIEL family, assuming we believe the >>>> >> claims >>> of >>>> >> some of their descendants concerning the identity of their >>>> >> ancestors. >>>> >> All of these Southern families of this era named their children >>>> >> in >>> an >>>> >> almost identical fashion. I cannot tell you how many Williams and >>> Johns >>>> >> there are in my families of this period and these were families that >>> not >>>> >> only lived right around these DANIELS but also had collateral links >>>> >> to >>>> > them. >>>> >> Without a will for either Aaron or Betsy, where their children >>>> >> are >>>> >> actually named, or some type or other contemporary document >>>> >> outlining >>>> >> this >>>> >> family to some degree, then what we see in POWG is highly suspect. >>>> >> Our >>>> >> major problem, today, is not in actually researching these various >>> lines >>>> > but >>>> >> in straightening out the mess of early family researchers who did >>>> >> not >>>> >> have >>>> >> access to the documents we have available to us, today. >>>> >> What these early researchers did was take "family myth" and >>>> >> force >>> the >>>> >> pieces of the known puzzle of the time into the holes on the board, >>>> > whether >>>> >> they actually fit or not. This is why you see both 10 and 60 year >>>> >> old >>>> >> females giving birth to children. The problem is -- we now know >>>> >> they >>>> >> skipped a generation or two in between. >>>> >> Yet, there are those who will fight to keep their established >>>> > genealogy, >>>> >> even with faced with the impossibility of such an assignment, >>>> >> because >>>> >> a >>>> >> change in that assignment would effect their membership in various >>>> >> organizations. This is also why we have such a hodge-podge of DNA >>>> > results >>>> >> and why some of the stuff we see does not match what we would think >>>> > because >>>> >> the person who submitted the DNA was really not a descendant of the >>>> >> person >>>> >> they think they descend from. >>>> >> I was talking with a MAY cousin who is trying to track his MAY >>>> > ancestry. >>>> >> He got a 24/25 marker match with some fellow in TN but I told him a >>> 24/25 >>>> >> marker test only indicates they had a common ancestor within the >>>> >> past >>>> >> 8 >>>> >> generations. I told him as close as he should have been to this >>> person, >>>> > he >>>> >> should have had a 25/25 marker match because, at the most, both of >>>> >> them >>>> > were >>>> >> only 5 generations removed from their "most recent common ancestor" >>>> > (MCRA). >>>> >> I would almost guarantee you that my DNA would give a perfect >>>> >> 25/25 >>>> >> match with someone from my RICHTER family in Germany if we were >>> descended >>>> >> from the same common Prussian ancestor, which is only five >>>> >> generations >>>> >> removed for me. As for Joe's DNA test, he is only 4 generations >>> removed >>>> >> from Charles MAY born 1778 in Edgefield County, SC which means their >>> MRCA >>>> > is >>>> >> located at least three generation beyond that time frame - a GGF of >>>> > Charles >>>> >> MAY. This really pushes them back to some time in the 1600's and >>>> >> maybe >>>> > even >>>> >> back to the old country, where ever that was. >>>> >> Take MS Lucy's recent DNA test. She, also, got a 24/25 marker >>> match >>>> > but >>>> >> this only indicates this person shared a MCRA at their 5th to 6th >>>> >> GGF >>>> > level. >>>> >> Since MS Lucy is only four generations removed from William DANIEL >>>> >> born >>>> > 1760 >>>> >> this means their MCRA was William DANIEL's GGF. That, was also a >>>> >> long >>>> > time >>>> >> ago. >>>> >> With a 25 marker test you should get a perfect match (25/25) >>>> >> with >>> any >>>> >> person with whom you share a MCRA within the past seven generations. >>> In >>>> >> simple terms, if you and they share, at least, a 5th GGF, you should >>> get >>>> >> a >>>> >> perfect match. If you share a MCRA beyond that, the match will >>> diminish, >>>> >> statistically. For most of us, that puts a perfect match well into >>>> >> the >>>> >> 1600's and I do not think we are searching for information much >>>> >> beyond >>>> > that, >>>> >> at least in this country. >>>> >> >>>> >> John R. Clarke >>>> >> Thomasville, GA >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >>>> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:01 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>>> >> GA >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Duplin/Sampson, NC Deed Records.....Feb 1765, pg, 186 & 187 >>>> >> > Aaron DANIEL & wife, Elizabeth to George FRAZIER, both of >>>> >> > Duplin County, 100ac.for 30 pds. ,near Goshen Swamp, adjecent >>>> >> > Mathew WHITFIELD. >>>> >> > Witness: Moses DANIEL, Mathew WHITFIELD, James OUTLAW. >>>> >> > Signed: Aaron DANIEL, Elizabeth DANIEL >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Judy Garner, >>>> >> > Sebring,FL >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> > From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >>>> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:51 PM >>>> >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin >>>> >> > County, >>> GA >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >> Is this Abraham Daniel(1763-1832) mentioned as son-in-law to >>>> >> >> James >>>> >> >> Cooper? >>>> >> >> Abraham married Jane Moore, ca 1796? Their first child was born >>>> >> >> 1797. >>>> >> >> He >>>> >> >> was 33, when he married Jane Moore, so could have been married >>>> >> >> before.......to the daughter of James Cooper. Abraham is the >>>> >> >> son >>> of >>>> >> > Aaron >>>> >> >> Daniel RS (1735-1790) and Elizabeth Whitfield(1740-1804). >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Judy Garner >>>> >> >> Sebring,FL >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>>> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:40 AM >>>> >> >> Subject: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>>> >> >> GA >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> > Good Morning, >>>> >> >> > I thought this was a very interesting will since a James COOPER >>>> >> > supposedly >>>> >> >> > married Elizabeth DANIEL, d/o Rev. Thomas DANIEL and Sarah >>>> >> >> > BURNEY >>> of >>>> >> >> Greene >>>> >> >> > County, GA. If so, what was an Abraham DANIEL doing on this >>>> >> >> > will >>> as >>>> > a >>>> >> >> > son-in-law? We also know COOPER did not die in Greene County, >>>> >> >> > GA >>> in >>>> >> > 1807, >>>> >> >> > as some suggest, but Baldwin County, GA in 1818 or so.... >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > Also, notice that BARNES listed in this will. That tends to >>>> >> >> > tell >>> me >>>> >> >> either >>>> >> >> > that this DANIEL was from Edgecombe or Northampton County, NC. >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > However, several interesting points in all of this -- Abraham >>>> >> >> > was >>> an >>>> >> >> > IOW >>>> >> >> > DANIEL name, BARNES is an IOW DANIEL collateral and this DANIEL >>>> >> >> > bunch >>>> >> > sure >>>> >> >> > looks like an IOW DANIEL family to me, but then, again..... >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > <<< >>>> >> >> > Will Book A, Baldwin County, GA >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > COOPER, JAMES 1/21/1812 - 3/2/1818 >>>> >> >> > Wife: not named >>>> >> >> > Children: Davis Cooper, Thomas Cooper, John Cooper, Milbry >>> McGintry, >>>> >> > Nancy >>>> >> >> > Barnes >>>> >> >> > Others mentioned: Son-in-law - Abraham Daniel; Nathaniel C. >>> Waller, >>>> >> > James >>>> >> >> > Rice, John Gill >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > John R. Clarke >>>> >> >> > Thomasville, GA >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>>> >> >> > IF YOU MISS ANY MESSAGE: You can easily search the DANIEL List >>>> > Archives >>>> >> >> at: >>>> >> >> > >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=DANIEL >>>> >> >> > >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>>> >> >> DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the >>>> >> >> posting >>> of >>>> >> > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral >>>> > families >>>> >> > or >>>> >> > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- >>>> >> > are >>>> > not >>>> >> > allowed on this list. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>>> >> > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you >>> change >>>> >> > the subject of a reply message. >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>>> >> If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like >>>> >> to >>>> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a >>> suggestion >>>> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >>>> > to >>>> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>>> > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >>>> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a >>> suggestion >>>> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >>>> > to >>>> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>>> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >>> the subject of a reply message. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >>> the subject of a reply message. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >> the >> subject of a reply message. >> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting of >> messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral families >> or those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- are >> not allowed on this list. >> >> > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Click on the following link and your message is ready to send > Mail Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > or- > Digest Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. >

In a message dated 4/12/2004 6:44:32 PM Central Daylight Time, jclarke@rose.net writes: > Was it not you that said just a few days ago that Sarah DANIEL, d/o > T&E, married Algeron WILSON and this Sarah turned out to be the daughter of > Marmaduke DANIELL, Sr. and Susan PROCTOR and not T&E. Nooooo John, Payne merely asked about what someone else had sent him which he questioned and asked for comment from the list... including the fact that it "didn't sound right" or some such words. Now, as to Governor Robert DANIEL or DANIELL, I thoroughly believe what the WILSON book reveals as it has been well researched with references throughout regarding everything the author wrote... and I have a question.... If Miles CAREY initially brought Robert's father, Roger DANIEL, to the colonies, wouldn't that possibly indicate that Roger was not probably able to pay for his own transportation, and therefore a "less than wealthy" person, while at the same time being a "kinsman" and one who just was not in the same financial status as Miles? I get the impression from reading that there were several of Governor Robert's family who were not, shall I say, as slick a salesman, or politician, as he... and thusly didn't gain financially to the extent he did. Seems throughout history every single family has had those individuals capable of doing better than their siblings or some in their family... they've also had plenty of Black Sheep too. Further, I don't believe for one moment that religious choices had anything to do with personal success, back then or as today. This "success" theory toward religious preference needs to be put to rest. My DANIELs and their ASBURYs were well monied and were of the Baptist faith, ... not Presbyterian, Episcopalian or Catholic... just plain ole Baptist. And, speaking of the christian name "Algernon" ~ ~ ~ Asbury DANIEL, son of Henning DANIEL used it, as did a son of Edmund Samuel DANIEL, b: 1800. Also, it appears that Henning DANIEL also had a son who maried in South Carolina, why I don't know. Then, my grandmother, b: 1846, daughter of Edmund, came along and named a son [from what looks like] the same name, or very close, to one of Governor Robert DANIEL's estates, mentioned in one of my recent posts. Anne

Mike, It is William Lanier SWANNER b. ABT 1725, son of Matthias Tobias SWANNER (1692-1743) and Jean LANIER (ABT 1696-1743). Jean was Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL's sister and this SWANNER boy was Thomas's nephew and RLD's first cousin. Now, do you understand the relationship? They also seem to have just listed his first two names, William Lanier, in these guardianship papers and not his last name, but it is same fellow. Matt and Jean also had a son, John Lanier SWANNER born ABT the same time as William, who married an UNK and they had a son, Jesse SWANNER, who had a son, James SWANNER (1790-1842) who married Anna CHERRY, d/o John of Beaufort County, NC. So, the CHERRYS were close to this overall bunch. The connection to BRYAN/BRYANT was that Matt and Jean's daughter, Sarah SWANNER born ABT 1723 married Darby BRYANT. I do not know anything about him...... However, this all begs the question, was this Robert DANIEL of Martin or Robert Lanier DANIEL of Pitt? It could be either, or even a 3rd Robert DANIEL we do not know, which is the problem. I based by assumption in this that it was RLD of Pitt but that does not mean it was. . John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <Runforf471@aol.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] William SWANNER > In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:40:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jclarke@rose.net writes: > Notice the > William SWANNER who was a witness to this deed. > John, > > As to your reference to William SWANNER please consider the following > Tyrell > Co. estate records: > > 391. SWANNER, Mathias Tobias > 4 Jun 1746. Bond for Darby BRYAN to be guardian to Samuel SWANNER, orphan > of > the dec'd. Bondsmen: William (X) HASSELL, William KENNEDY. > > 14 Jun 1746. Bond for Robert DANIEL to be guardian to William SWANNER > [later > called William LINIEAR] orphan of the dec'd. Bondsmen: John HARDISON, > William > KENNEDY. > > 3 Sep 1746. Bond for William LANIER of Beaufort Co. to be guardian to > George > Mathias SWANNER, orphan of the dec'd. Bondsmen: John LANIER, Robert Lanier > DANIEL (both of Tyrell Co.) > > This one puzzles me. Why would William SWANNER be later called William > LINIEAR [LANIER?] if he were ward of Robert DANIEL? Is Robert DANIEL, > guardian of > William SWANNER, and Robert Lanier DANIEL, bondsman for William Lanier's > guardianship of George Matthias SWANNER one in the same? > > At any rate the SWANNERS obviously had some ties to the DANIEL/LANIERS. > > Mike Daniel > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. > >

Payne, Yes, there is no proof that Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN married Robert DANIELL of Charleston and there is no proof that Robert DANIEL (1718-AFT 1782) of Martin County, NC was a son of Simon DANIEL of Edgecombe County, NC, but you sure carry him as his son. Right? There is not a lot of proof for a lot of stuff in genealogy, is there? What there is proof of is -- Elizabeth CHAMBERLAIN (1720-1758), d/o Samuel CHAMBERLAIN (ABT 1685-1752) of Brunswick County, VA, married Sampson LANIER, Jr., d/o Sampson LANIER, Sr. and Elizabeth WASHINGTON. Is that not correct. Was it not you that said just a few days ago that Sarah DANIEL, d/o T&E, married Algeron WILSON and this Sarah turned out to be the daughter of Marmaduke DANIELL, Sr. and Susan PROCTOR and not T&E. I do not know what the answer is for this bunch but what I do know is there are too many identical surnames in Southside, the tidal areas of NC and Charleston for these families not to be connected. I think they are connected, possibly at a cousin level, but still connected. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier > John, > > Just a comment, there is not proof that Robert Daniell married in to the > CHAMBERLAINS. Just some guess work, but it is profitable to consider that > aspect of the issue when you research the possible Daniell/Chamberlain > connection. > > To my knowledge no one suspects that Robert Daniell was of humble origins? > Because he owned about three ships, someone suggest that he was an English > Privateer. > Interesting, but probably untrue. BTW, he wasn't married three times > either. > > As John says, there is some "Hog Wash" here and there. > > Later, Payne > > Way to go, PHIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier > > > Good Morning, > I can buy all of that but convincing others of that possibility is the > problem. Some have characterized the LANIERS as nothing but a bunch of > meat > cutters from Barbados and Robert DANIELL's family as being nothing but a > family of poor Welsh miners, or something along those lines. Maybe I have > exaggerated a little bit, but you get the idea. <grin> > As for Robert DANIELL, he seems more like a machinist, to me -- tooling > it around everywhere. <grin> It is surprising to me that Charleston > society was a kind to him as it seems to have been. I have understood the > WAINWRIGHTS were of Bermuda but I will bet they were of a similar class to > Robert because men have always had affairs but they usually did not marry > persons outside of their class, even then. > People, today, tend to forget that England was a very class conscious > society in that time frame and one did not start at the bottom rung of the > ladder and go all the way to the top, no matter who they were or even as a > result of their accomplishments.. It was almost like the caste system > used > in India, until recent times where people were locked into the class of > their birth. > If you look over the list of names in the Lords Proprietors, then you > will see nothing but the cream of English society because as we all know, > society tends to dictate that the rich get the gravy and the poor get the > shaft. That, was especially true back then. > To think that Robert DANIEL emerged from some poor Welsh mining clan to > become a Landgrave of the Carolinas is nothing but hogwash. To think he > married into such an illustrious family, as the CHAMBERLAINS, from such > humble Welsh beginnings is also hogwash. When you look at marriages in > the > 17th century, they were very class conscious. > Granted, Robert DANIELL may not have been from the very top echelons of > English society but he was far from the bottom rung of the ladder and his > family must have been well connected, which in those days was usually > based > on money and property. What I am surprised is how fast some of his > descendants seem to have deteriorated, class wise. > Are you aware that one's religious preference is a key denominator of > class? In the protestant faiths, you have the Episcopal Church at the > top, > followed closely by the Methodist and Presbyterian churches. > In the days after the Revolutionary War, one church in particular was > very paternalistic, the Baptists. How do you think this set with these > patriots who just fought a war to keep from being told what to do by their > English lords? Not very well, in my opinion. This same type of > philosophy > was incorporated into the Quaker faith which is why this religion > descended > after the RW. > Paternalistic based religions only tend to flourish among the > uneducated > classes, not the educated classes, even today. Educated people just do > not > like to be told by their religions elders, what to do, when to do it and > how > it must be done. This is also probably why one sees so many agnostics and > even atheists in society, today - current religions philosophies are a > little too intrusive for them. > This is why the Baptist religion of the DANIELLS of Oconee County, GA > surprises me. Maybe William DANIELL's parents did not raise him properly > or > maybe his second wife was of a different class and she was in charge of > their kids upbringing, that I do not know. Maybe even the uncertainty of > life in that period tended to force people to accept a religion that > dominated their personal lives, from start to finish. That, I do not know > What I do know is -- I would not have tolerated that kind of religious > dominance, even then. . > The Baptist faith has changed somewhat over the course of the past 200 > years and is a little less intrusive than it used to be, but it is still > much more intrusive than other protestant religions. People also tended > to > join their community church and the community church in their area of GA > may > have been Baptist and once they became locked into a specific church, they > were also locked into that religion. That, I also do not know. > What I do know is that none of my family were of the Baptist faith > which > tells me a lot about them. My wife once told me a rather simple > definition > of class. "High class people talk about ideas, middle class people talk > about money and low rents talk about others." I will end this on that > tid-bit of Connecticut wisdom..... <grin> > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier > > >> >> Probably nothing not already discussed, or of interest here... but >> Elizabeth >> LANIER is shown with her Thomas DANIEL in the family of Robert, and can >> see >> how the two Sarah DANIELs marrying WILLSON or WILSON could be >> confusing.....same >> Wilson book, pgs 8 and 9 ~ >> >> "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., >> Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd >> 1962 >> >> >> Robert DANIEL I >> The English DANIELLs are of Norman origin, descending from the D'ANVERS >> or >> DANYERs family, who held estates in Cheshire in the reign of Henry III >> and >> bore >> arms "Arg. a pale fusily sa." which appear to be identical with those >> engraved >> on the seal of Colonel Robert DANIELL, progenitor of the Barbados branch. >> Similar arms, were, however, borne by other DANIELL lines in the Heralds' >> Visitations, that of London [originally from Norfolk] in 1634 showing >> Robert DANIELL >> of London, merchant, with a son Robert then aged three years. >> >> According to Hathaway's North Carolina History and Genealogy Register, >> [below] the first known ancestor was Roger DANIELL the elder, who came >> over with his >> kinsman Miles CAREY from Bristol, England, to Virginia before 1644/45 ~ >> Married UNKNOWN and had: >> >> 1. Roger DANIELL the younger, who came over from Bristol to Virginia >> with >> Roger, his father and their kinsman Miles CAREY ~ Married and had: >> >> 1.a. Robert DANIELL, Governor >> 1.b. John DANIELL of Barbados ~ Married Ann UNKNOWN and had: >> >> 1.b.1. John DANIELL, baptized at St. James, Barbados in 1678 >> 1.b.2. Thomas DANIELL of Tyrrell County, North Carolina, baptized at >> St. >> James, Barbados ~ dc: 1750, Tyrell County ~ Married Elizabeth LANIER of >> Tyrell >> County, daughter of Thomas LANIER. >> 1.b.3. Wilbert DANIELL, of Virginia, who spent only a short time in >> Barbados. >> >> ~O~ >> 2. Darby DANIELL, who was living in Virginia in 1693. [brother to >> Roger >> @ >> 1.] >> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` >> Colonel Robert DANIELL was, according to his age on the memorial tablet, >> born >> in 1646 [1. Ray claims that he was born in Virginia ~ see later] and >> although he was obviously possessed of considerable natural ability and >> talent, he is >> believed to have had influential family connections from his earliest >> days. >> >> He married (1) between 1675 and 1680, to Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, bc: 1654 ~ >> d: >> 16 OCT 1711, daughter of Colonel Edmund Chamberlayne of Maughersbury, >> County >> of Glouucester. The CHAMBERLAYNE family through their marital >> connections >> with >> the PYE family were prominent in Barbados trading circles, and Robert >> DANIELL >> took up this mode of life. His wife was an heiress and evidently refused >> to >> share the dangers and vicissitudes of colonial sea trading. Robert and >> Dorothy had one child, Robert II, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709. There >> is no >> indication in the records that Dorothy accompanied her husband on any of >> his trips >> to Barbados, Virginia, or the Carolinas. >> >> The year and circumstances of his first journey from England to Barbados >> are >> not known, but it must have been about the time of the Restoration or >> soon >> after, and as he was a staunch Royalist and Churchman, political factors >> are >> unlikely to have been involved, and he was probably at first a merchant >> or >> planter >> and perhaps owner or part-owner of a ship. Neither is it known how long >> he >> remained in Barbados, indeed it is probable that after his first arrival >> he >> made several voyages to and from England. Hotten records his migration >> from >> Barbados to Carolina, 04 APR 1679, in the ship "Mary" with Nicholas >> LOCKWOOD, >> Commander. He was accompanied by his servant Mary COOPER. [2. The >> Original >> Lists of Persons of Quality, 1600 ~ 1700, London, 1874, edited by John >> Camden >> HOTTEN] >> >> He received a succession of land grants, the first being dated a year >> before >> his arrival [3. Warrants for Lands in South Carolina, A. S. SALLEY, JR ~ >> see >> later] Although he was one of the largest landholders in South Carolina, >> he >> was not land-hungry. In fact, in several instances he sold lands in a >> very >> short time, probably in order to provide working capital for his trading >> adventures. >> >> He was taking an important part in the administrative life of Carolina >> within >> a few months of his arrival, making an appraisement of Thomas NERSE's >> property in 1680, and is himself referred to as a landowner in South >> Carolina on 15 >> DEC 16800, and again on 07 MAY and 10 MAY 1682, on all occasions with the >> rank >> of Captain. >> >> McCRADY records that "among the leaders who came into the Province of >> Carolina were some of great ability. Governor MOORE and Major Robert >> DANIELL though >> not among the first settlers, had each been in the Province some years. >> DANIELL from Barbados in 1679, and had already taken an active part in >> its >> affairs." >> >> His military rank appears to have varied. >> In MAY and AUG 1692 he is described as Major >> Captain in a deed dated 1693 [S.C.H. & G.M., Vol XI, pg 128] >> Major and Commander of the ship "Daniell of South Carolina" on 24 NOV >> 1693 >> [Ibid, Vol VIII, pg 210] >> Captain in a Will appointing him as Executor in 1695 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 83] >> Major again on 12 SEP 1696 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 236] >> Major on 10 MAR 1696/97 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 24] >> Major on 10 JAN 1697 [S.C.H.S. Collections, Vol 1, pg 144] >> >> In communications from the Lords Proprietors to the Governor and Council >> at >> Charles Town in 1698 [Ibid, Vol I, pg 456] his rank is given as Major and >> in >> 1702 he is styled Colonel [Rivers' Sketch, pg 20] and again in 1710, 1712 >> and >> 1716. >> >> In 1686 [Va Mag, Vol V, pg 81 ante.] he took an important part in the >> action >> against Spanish forces which had destroyed Stuart Town on Port Royal >> Island >> and other settlements in Carolina. Much of Robert DANIELL's time in the >> 16800's >> appears to have been spent in sailing his ships between America, Jamaica >> and >> Barbados [McCALL, TIDWELL and Allied Families, 1931, McCALL] >> >> His earliest extant signature "Robert Daniel" appears on a bond between >> John >> COMMINGS and Edward MAYO, 14 FEB 1680. The original contract is now in >> the >> possession of E. Roy DANIELL and Elizabeth HARLESTON DANIELL. >> >> The Will of Henry SYMMONDS of Charles Town, Vintner, proved before >> Governor >> BLAKE, 13 MAR 1695, appoints his friend Captain Robert DANIELL to be >> executor >> and trustee for testator's wife, Frances. The Will of Richard BUTLER, >> made 12 >> SEP 1696, appoints Major Robert DANIELL guardian to his wife and son. >> >> His career seems to have been little affected by his active opposition, >> beginning in 1680, to Landgrave John COLLETON, even after the latter >> became >> Governor. He was a loyal adherent of Seth SOTHEL throughout that stormy >> administration. In 1692 he was therefore excepted (with James MOORE) by >> the Lords >> Proprietors from the general pardon extended by them to all who had been >> concerned in >> Governor COLLETON's expulsion. Nevertheless, this did DANIELL little >> harm, >> and from then till the end of his life, his record was one of proomotion >> and >> achievement. In MAY 1692 as Major Robert DANIELL with Charles BURNHAM, >> he >> was >> entered as security for Robert GOSSE, who arrived in Carolina in the ship >> "Loyal Jamaica" [Grant Book, Secretary of State's Office, 1672/94, pg >> 78] >> >> In 1697 he was appointed Deputy to the Earl of Craven ~ Commissions and >> Instructions from the Lords Proprietors of Carolina to Public Officials >> of >> South >> Carolina, 1685~1715, pg 108. The Commission is as follows: >> >> William Lord CRAVEN one of ye true & absolute Lords & Proprietrs of ye >> Province of Carolina ~ to Robert DANIELL, Esq. Whereas it is Appointed >> by >> the Lords >> Proprietrs of Carolina in their ffundamentall Constitutions and Rules of >> Governmt that each of ye Lords Proprietrs shall Name a Deputy to be his >> Representative in ye generall Assembly and Councell of Carolina. I out >> of >> ye Confidence >> I have in ye Wisdome, Prudence & Loyalty of you ye said Robert DANIELL Do >> Constitute & Appoint you ye sd. Robert DANIELL to be my Deputy in that >> Part of >> our Province of Carolina wch llLyes South and West of Cape ffear, wth. >> full >> Power and Authority to Act and Exercise all such Powers & Things as to a >> Proprietrs Depty do's Belong Given under my Hand and Seal the fourteenth >> day of January >> Anno Dom: 1697/8. CRAVEN (Seal) >> >> Robert DANIELL served with great distinction in the ill-fated expedition >> led >> by Governor MOORE against St. Augustine in Florida in 1702 [The History >> of >> South Carolina under the Proprietary Government, 1670 ~ 1719, by Edward >> McCRADY, >> 1897, pg 381 et seq] >> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` >> Ray's Index and Digest to Hathaway's N.C. History and Gen. Register, >> 19945, >> pg 38: >> The popular conception of Governor DANIEL's genealogical history is that >> he >> was born in England, whereas, the weight of the suggestive, if not >> positive, >> evidence is that he was born in York or Warwick County, Virginia. No one >> has >> been able to determine with certainty the exact year in which Miles CARY, >> the >> emigrant arrived in Virginia, but it was prior to 1644/45 at least. He >> was from >> Bristol, England, and brought over with him his "known kinsman" Roger >> DANIEL >> and his son Roger DANIEL, JR. The latter was the father of Governor >> Robert >> DANIEL, who with his two brothers, John and Wilbert, fled to the >> Barbadoes >> to >> escape the wrath of BERKLEY after the rebellion stirred up by Nathaniel >> BACON. >> >> Wilbert DANIEL remained in the Island only a few months, after which he >> returned to Virginia. Prior to his going there on NOV 13, 1678, he had >> been one of >> the subscribing witnesses to the Will of Henry ISHAM at Varina, in >> Henrico >> County, whose wife was the widow of ROYAL, and whose son Henry ROYAL in >> 1693 >> witnessed with Darby DANIEL (uncle of Governor Robert) the Will of his >> stepson, >> Henry COPELAND in Elizabeth City. >> >> John DANIEL, the other brother, remained in the Barbadoes for some time >> and >> the St James Parish Records there show the birth of two sons, John [JR] >> in >> 1678 >> and Thomas in 1679. >> >> Robert DANIEL had married Dorothy CHAMBERLAINE, by whom he had one son, >> Robert, and John DANIEL, his brother, married [in Barbadoes~?] to Ann >> UNKNOWN. >> Thomas DANIEL, b: 1679, married Elizabeth LANIER, daughter of Thomas >> Lanier, who >> was living for a time in the Island, and both Thomas DANIEL and Thomas >> LANIER >> died in Tyrrell County, NC about 1750, as disclosed by these Hathaway >> records. >> >> Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN, the first wife of Robert DANIEL, had a sister who >> appears to have been the wife of John LEAR, Clerk of Nansemond County, >> Virginia, >> hence Robert DANIEL and the old Clerk were brothers-in-law. Dorothy also >> had a >> nephew Marmaduke CHAMBERLAINE, for whom Governor DANIEL named his second >> grandson. >> >> North Carolina History & Gen. Register, Vol 1, pg 199, refers to Thomas >> DANIEL, John DANIEL and Robert DANIEL. >> [Will of Milles CARY of Warwick County, Virginia, dtd 09 JUN 1667, pr. 21 >> JUN >> 1667, Warwick County, left his grey mare and that parcel or tract of land >> called "Gaole" with all the rents and profits, to Roger DANIELL ~ The >> Virginia >> CARYs, Harrison, 1919, pgs 164~167]. >> >> Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN was not the first Chamberlaine to marry a DANIELL. >> "A" >> Robert DANIELL married (2) to Margaret CHAMBERLAIN who died at Edmonton, >> Middlesex, 30 JUL 1663. >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >> change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion >> you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to >> contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >> > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Click on the following link and your message is ready to send > Mail Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > or- > Digest Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. > >

John, I think I understand your suspicions regarding the T&E family especially Robert Lanier Daniel. We have traversed this set of possibilities before but it doesn't hurt to sort them out again. Was one Robert married to two ladies, or two Roberts married to a single lady etc.? Were there two RLDs operating in the area at the same time? Who knows? I think, just me, that Robert Lanier Daniel was married to Jemima Willis and that Robert Daniel of Martin married Mary Swain. This may be a tiresome reference but: Robert Lanier Daniel and Jemima both signed Deed Bk 2, pgs 9-11 in Tyrrell County in 1748 as residents. (Lanier Daniel, of Beaufort County, on May 17, 1748, sold this land--the same 83 acres in Tyrrell--to John Lanier (an uncle) of Tyrrell County for 90 pounds. The deed was signed by Robert Lanier Daniel and Jemina Daniel (his wife). Witnesses William Taner, Sarah Sellers, and Michel Wess, -- Ibid., 2, pp. 9-11.) Now Robert Daniel of Martin where the Smithwick reference is made to Robert Jr. (I start picking up kids at abt 1740 not aft 1760: Will of Robert Sr.:Will Book No. 1 page 127 Martin County N. C. (Office of Clerk of Court): Robert Daniel of Martin Co., N. C. will Sept. 17, 1786. 'My son William Daniel; son Simon Daniel; my daughter Elizabeth; my daughter Sarah; my son James Daniel; my daughter Jemiah Daniel; my daughter Chloe Daniel; my sons William Daniel and Simon Daniel my whole and sole executors. Test: Joshua Robason, Frederick Godward. Colonial Records of N. C. Vol. VI, page 343 (byW. L. Saunders): Will of Robert Jr (by the statement of his parents): B1P80 Robert DANIELS, SR,; William DANIEL; Mary DANIEL; swore to Samuel SMITHWICK; justice of the peace, that Robert DANIEL, JR. called on them on 7 November 1780 to take notice that he was going into the service and did not have time to make a will in writing, but his will and desire, in case he should die, was his sisters and brothers (not named) were to be given something. men: bro. James DANIEL; wit appeared in court 18 August 1782. Just for the record, an extract from the will of Elizabeth Daniel that names the children of she and Thomas, notice the name Willis as a witness: It is my will to give and bequeath to my beloved son Robert Daniel one stear yerling. Item - to my daughter Sarah Willson I do give and bequeath one stear yerling. (Note two LLs in Willson~she did not marry Algernon Wilson) Item - to my son Thomas Daniel I do give and bequeath one large Bible. Item - to my daughter Elisabeth Daniel I do give and bequeath one young cow and calf and a fore year old stear a large chest a wollen wheale and a pare of cotten cards and a linen wheale. Item - to my daughter Mary Ward I give and bequeath one stear yerling and a linnen wheale. Item - to my son John Daniel I do give and bequeath my manner plantation and a fore year old horse a large iron pot and a gun and five dolors. Item - to my son Wm Daniel I do give and bequeath my Bay horse caled Crumel and a duble lune and a large. (Yes, I think that this William was the one who wound up in Halifax Co., NC.) Item - to my son Aron Daniel I do give and bequeath my black horse caled Smoaker and a Dublelune a case of bottels and a chest. Item - to my daughter Ruth Daniel I do give and bequeath one puter dish and three plates. Item - to my daughter Pricilah Daniel I do give and bequeath one puter dish and three plates. Item - to my son Josiah Daniel I do give and bequeath one puter dish and thre plates. Item - to my daughter Ruth and Pricilah and my son Josiah afore mentioned I do give and bequeath two cows and yerlings and seven cows and calfs thre five year stears farther more it is my will to give to my daughter Ruth Pricilah and my son Josiah one ew and ew lamb and two weathers(?) To be equaly devided when the said children Ruth Precilah and Josiah do arrive at the age of sixteen years farther more it is my will all my cattel should be equaly devided that is left ungiven betwen my son John afmd and Aron(?) Daniel afore mentioned. Item - to my grandaughter Elisabeth Daniel I do give and bequeath one two year hefer. Item - to Jerimah Willis the daugher of Wm and Mary Willis I do give and bequeath one yerling hefer. Item - to my daughter Ruth Pricilah and my son Josiah I give and bequeath the two mares and their increase to be equaly devided when they arrive at the age of sixteen years farther more it is my will all the rest of my household furniture and all the utentils one foreland feven shep should be equaly devided between my daughter Elisabeth my sons John Wm and Aron afore mentioned I do nominate chose and apoint my beloved sons Thomas and John Daniel to be my Executors of this my Last Will and Testament and I farther will and desesire that there may be no misinterpetations or wrong constrictions put on this my Last Will and Testament Sined Sealed published and Declared this Sixth day of March in the years of our Lord God everlasting one thousand seven hundred fifty and two. Interlined before sined. Elisabeth (her -x- mark) Daniel In the presence of Wm Willis John (his -x- mark) Brown Senr Mary (her -x- mark) Willis ------------------------------------------------------ "That you may retain your self-respect, it is better to displease the people by doing what you know is right, than to temporarily please them by doing what you know is wrong." -- William J. H. Boetcker ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA Payne, My guess is that all of T&E's kids were born in Chowan or Tyrrell County, NC, so take your pick. Since Edenton, NC was the thriving metropolis of that area in that time frame, they probably lived somewhere near Edenton, maybe right across the sound in Tyrrell County, NC, as most suggest. Remember, the POLLACKS and I assume, CULLENS, lived adjacent to them, according to deeds of the period. What I find interesting is that Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL's will was probated in Beaufort County, NC in 1752. Did she move down from Tyrrell to be with her oldest son, RLD, after Thomas's death in 1749, since Pitt was formed from Beaufort and RLD, actually lived right on the border with Beaufort in Pactolus, Pitt County, NC. This, to me, would be the reason her will was probated in Beaufort and not in Tyrrell. What I find a little bit worrisome about Aaron is his connection to Duplin County, NC but this may be because Matthew WHITFIELD was lived, there. We do know that Matthew WHITFIELD, his father-in-law, was living in the Cheraw area, later, and Aaron seems to have followed him to this part of SC. I think we can straighten out Aaron and Betsy's family but we need some more information, like accurate vestry records from St. David's Church in Cheraw, SC. I also know they are on microfilm in the SC archives but I do not like it when I see his name listed in some family references to this church and not listed in impartial transcriptions of these church vestry records. That, tells me something may be amiss, here. Not to forget there were about three Aaron DANIELS operating in upstate SC in this same time frame........ It takes more than just a given name to connect a son or daughter to a set of parents. If we connect siblings to each other and one of these siblings to a set of parents, this is sufficient proof to establish the parents of the rest of these known siblings. However, in thinking back over the T&E bunch, I do not think we can tie any of these children back to T&E. can we? I went back and looked at the Robert Lanier DANIEL deed to John LANIER where his wife was mentioned as a Jemima DANIEL. This has to be the John LANIER who was a sister of Elizabeth LANIER who married Thomas DANIEL. The thing that bothered me was the reference to the SMITHWICK name in this deed. Not to forget the Jemima that was a daughter of Robert DANIEL of Martin County, NC who married Mary SWAIN, whose mother was a SMITHWICK. Notice the William SWANNER who was a witness to this deed. I somehow get the feeling this RLD may not be the RLD we think of later in Pitt. If he is selling the home place, which requires the wife to sign away her dower rights, then this Robert may be older than we think. It could also well be Robert DANIEL of Martin and his first wife, Jemima, and after her death he married Mary SWAIN born ABT 1722 because I do not start picking up kids for them until AFT 1760. This would account for the SMITHWICK connection and the Jemima name connection in this family. However, this Robert L. DANIELL says he was of Beaufort County, NC and not Tyrrell County, NC or even Edgecombe. . If there are more than one RLD's operating in this time frame in this general area, this may also account for all of the Robert Lanier DANIELS we see floating around this area in this time frame. There is something not right, here, and I do not know quite what it is..... John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >I thought you were suggesting that Aaron was born someplace else, was He? >As > to the notes, the originals back at St. David's Church, I haven't an > opinion > yet! > > Payne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:03 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > > Payne, > Why did you mention the Lenoir County, NC POB for Aaron? I do not > think > your notes are cobbled up but these notes that I have for Aaron do not > compare with the originals back at St. David's Church, although some of > the > same names are on both of these sources. > > This tells me that someone has added Aaron's name to this list of names > at St. David's Church. Or, Virginia PROCTOR left his name off this list > for > some unknown reason. I do not know which is correct but that is what she > has on the Marlboro County, SC website. This is why the Vestry Records > of > St. David's Church need to be looked at and compared against these notes > to > see where they differ. > > I also found some very interesting deeds on this Marlboro County, SC > website, especially an 1816 deed for a John DERDEN (below). As I have > told > you several times, my grandmother, ended up with Land Lot 74 in Land > District 19 in Morgan County, GA, formerly part of Baldwin County. This > was > land owned by John DURDEN, who went bankrupt in 1873 and his land was sold > at the courthouse square in Madison and guess what he did -- he bought it > all back, at least LL 74, LD 19. However, guess who ended up with it and > there is no grantee-grantor record of how she got it? My grandmother, > Alice > Daniel RICHTER. Neither Marshall WILLIAMS, archivist of Morgan County, nor > I > have ever been able to figure this one out. > > My opinion is that John DURDEN was some kind of family and Alice took her > $700 inheritance from her father, Robert W. DANIEL, which she had gotten a > few years before (1867) her marriage to John RICHTER (1872), and bailed > out > John DURDEN because the purchase price was $709.25, almost exactly what > she > had gotten from her father's estate. Then, after his death, she inherited > the property which is why there is not a Grantor-Grantee record of this > transaction. > > > Note: There are also some very familiar names in this 1816 SC deed. Maybe > someone will see somthing that I do not. > > <<< > John DERDEN to James FIELDS, 1816 Contributed by Brenda Wagner > > John Derden of the District of Chesterfield, for $5000, to James Fields of > the District of Marlboro, 200 acres, a tract granted by Arthur Dobbs to > Robert Palmer, 10 Oct 1755, and conveyed by Wm. Palmer, attorny, for > Robert > Palmer, by lease and release 14 & 15 Dec 1773, to John May Junr, and by > John > May Junr. to Wm. Blakeny, 5 March 1791, and from Wm. Blakeny to John > Derden, > 12 Aug 1802, on both sides Thomson's Creek, 100 acres, being half of a > survey of 200 acres granted to Hartwell Weaver, 5 Dec 1791., also one > other > parcel, it being a part of 800 acres granted to Abner Lowry, 10 March > 1791, > 125 acres, at the first fork of Macks branch, above the school house fork, > adj. John P. Rushing; another tract granted to Benjn. Thermon, 75 acres, > being the lands whereon I now live at the cross roads or otherwise cauled > Mount Croghan; also several other pieces or parcels of land containing > seven > hundred and forty hacres, originall granted to Gustavas Hendrick, Asey > Hendrick & Samuel Alsobrooks, and conveyed by sd. Gustavas Hendrick to > John > Derden, by deed 22 May 1804, agreeable to a resurvay with the exception of > 116 acres previously sold to James Derden, and 62 to Obediah Meadows; also > one other tract on the North side of Thomsons Creek originally granted to > David Hendrick, 3 March 1794.18 July 1816. > >>>> > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > >> Thanks for the record. I continue to be interested in the dates of birth >> you >> have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? I will look at >> my >> notes about Aaron but I don't think it's my notes you refer to as >> "cobbled >> up", so are those notes from a source not mentioned here.? >> >> " It hurts when I swing, and it hurts when I don't." Arnold Palmer, 74 >> years >> of age. >> >> Payne >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >>> Payne, >>> >>> Someone has really cobbled up these notes about Aaron DANIEL. I went to >> the >>> "hoss's mouth" and looked them up, myself, and he did not join a St. >> David's >>> Scottish Presbyterian Church, he seems to have joined the St. David's >>> Church, a church of the Church of England. Interesting. >>> >>> What is even more interesting is Aaron DANIEL was not listed in any of >>> the >>> records these sources have listed for him, although the other names, >>> like >>> Samuel WISE,. Jesse COUNCIL, and others, are. The vestry notes are at >>> the >>> bottom of this page. >>> >>> That said, there should be some note of Aaron and Betsy in the vestry >>> minutes of this church which are in the SC Archives and which have also >> been >>> published by Brent HOLCOLMB. >>> >>> This is just another example of where folks have cobbled up, commingled >> and, >>> it appears, out fabricated some of the stuff you see about Aaron and >> Betsy. >>> This is why I have always said, there are those who seem more than >>> willing >>> to fabricate their families genealogy to suit their own needs but it is >>> rather difficult to do so over several other families, as well as when >> faced >>> with irrefutable historical documents. >>> >>> This information is from the Marlboro County, SC website. : >>> >>> <<< >>> Please note that because the Vestry of St. David's also served the >> community >>> as a political body (voting, collecting taxes, etc.), early records will >>> contain the names of members of all religious denominations. >>> >>> Minutes of the Vestry >>> April 1768 >>> The following gentlemen were named Commissioners for the Parish of St. >>> David's: >>> >>> Claudius Pegues Charles Bedingfield >>> Philip Pledger James James >>> Alexander Mackintosh Robert Weaver >>> George Hicks James Thomson >>> Thomas Ellerbee Thomas Crawford >>> Robert Alison Thomas Porte >>> Thomas Lide Benjamin Rogers >>> >>> August 1st 1768 >>> The Commissioners met at the House of Mr. Charles Bedingfield. >>> Absent were Thomas Ellerbee, Robert Weaver, James Thomson, Thomas >>> Crawford >>> and Thomas Porte. >>> >>> Declining to act as Commissioners were Alexander Mackintosh, James James >>> and Robert Alison. >>> >>> Elections were held. >>> Elected as Vestry Men: >>> Claudius Pegues, Philip Pledger, William Godfrey, Charles Bedingfield, >>> Thomas Lide, Thomas Ellerbee, Thomas Bingham >>> >>> Elected as Church Wardens: >>> Alexander Gordon and Benjamin Rogers. >>> >>> Durham Hitts was appointed Clerk of the Vestry. >>> >>> Electors were: >>> William Hardwick >>> Duke Glen >>> John Mackintosh >>> John Jenkins >>> Edward Ellerbee >>> John Husbands >>> Thomas Boatright, Senr. >>> Jesse Counsell >>> John Pledger >>> Robert Clary >>> Robert Anderson >>> Benjamin Jackson >>> James Knight >>> Samuel Wise >>> James Thursby >>> Thomas Williams >>> Thomas Wade >>> Leonard Dozier >>> <<< >>> >>> John R. Clarke >>> Thomasville, GA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> >>> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:48 AM >>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >>> >>> >>> >I take it John that your are stating your opinions and suspicions, and >>> >by >>> > the way, what's wrong with Radford, Lenoir, NC, being the birth place >>> > of >>> > Aaron Daniel? What list of children do you support for Ensign Aaron >>> > and >>> > Elizabeth Whitfield Daniel? According to Ingersol, page 414, Aaron was >>> > born >>> > in 1739 and died in 1790 in Cheraw District, SC. I am not a fan of >>> > Ingersol >>> > so your 1733 may be closer? I would also be interested in the dates of >>> > birth >>> > you have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? >>> > >>> > From lovely New Tampa, Florida. Payne >>> > >>> > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and >>> > statistics." >>> > -- Benjamin Disraeli >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:09 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>> > GA >>> > >>> > >>> >> Judy, >>> >> That is correct but Duplin and Sampson County, NC were not what I >>> > would >>> >> consider to be "normal stomping grounds" for the Lanier-Daniels. >>> >> Number one, this Moses has to be at least 16 to be witness of a >> deed >>> > and >>> >> that puts his DOB as 1749, probably closer to 1744, making him at >>> >> least >>> >> of >>> >> majority. This puts him as a contemporary of Aaron and not his son. >>> > There >>> >> is no Moses listed in the will of Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL, is >> there? >>> >> We also have reports there was an Abraham DANIEL born prior to 1750 >>> > floating >>> >> around this bunch and that, too, puts him as a contemporary of Aaron >> and >>> >> also not his son. >>> >> You see we really do not know when Aaron was born, do we? Some >>> >> say >>> > 1739 >>> >> but that is incorrect. He had to be born by 1733 not to be listed as >>> >> a >>> >> minor in his father's 1749 will nor was he listed as a minor in his >>> > mother's >>> >> 1752 will, was he? That means that he was born at least by 1733, >>> >> probably >>> >> before. >>> >> I also always go with the general rule of Southern families, as >> these >>> >> DANIELS were, that parents tend to name their children after a >>> >> combination >>> >> of the given names of their father's and mother's families, with a >>> >> few >>> > vogue >>> >> names thrown in from time to time. I also go with the general rule >> that >>> >> Yankee families went more towards Bible oriented given names, due to >>> >> their >>> >> Puritan influence, than did most Southern folks. >>> >> Southerners, for the most part, have always gone with tradition, >> even >>> >> then. This does not mean there was not an occasional family where >>> > religion >>> >> dominated every part of their lives and they would name their >>> >> children >>> > after >>> >> biblical characters because there were these occasional families. >>> > However, >>> >> for the most part Southern families were real big in naming their >>> >> children >>> >> according to tradition and that tradition indicates they will use >> family >>> >> names for their chillen. >>> >> There were several Biblical names used in the WHITFIELDS that we >> know >>> >> of, Matthew and Luke, but their other given names are generally >>> >> family >>> >> names. When you go back to the BRYANS, they re-use family names, >>> >> like >>> >> water. There are hundreds of Rachels, Penelopes, Williams and Johns. >>> > Even >>> >> the WARRENS tended to re-use family names, as best I can tell. >>> >> So, when I look at what I would think would be the given names >>> >> for >>> > Capt. >>> >> Aaron and Betsy Whitfield DANIEL's kids, I would look at some type of >>> >> combination of these names as possible given names for their >>> >> children. >>> > Yet, >>> >> we do not see these names used in this family to any degree. That >> makes >>> > me >>> >> really wonder about this DANIEL family, assuming we believe the >>> >> claims >> of >>> >> some of their descendants concerning the identity of their ancestors. >>> >> All of these Southern families of this era named their children >>> >> in >> an >>> >> almost identical fashion. I cannot tell you how many Williams and >> Johns >>> >> there are in my families of this period and these were families that >> not >>> >> only lived right around these DANIELS but also had collateral links >>> >> to >>> > them. >>> >> Without a will for either Aaron or Betsy, where their children >>> >> are >>> >> actually named, or some type or other contemporary document outlining >>> >> this >>> >> family to some degree, then what we see in POWG is highly suspect. >>> >> Our >>> >> major problem, today, is not in actually researching these various >> lines >>> > but >>> >> in straightening out the mess of early family researchers who did not >>> >> have >>> >> access to the documents we have available to us, today. >>> >> What these early researchers did was take "family myth" and force >> the >>> >> pieces of the known puzzle of the time into the holes on the board, >>> > whether >>> >> they actually fit or not. This is why you see both 10 and 60 year >>> >> old >>> >> females giving birth to children. The problem is -- we now know they >>> >> skipped a generation or two in between. >>> >> Yet, there are those who will fight to keep their established >>> > genealogy, >>> >> even with faced with the impossibility of such an assignment, because >>> >> a >>> >> change in that assignment would effect their membership in various >>> >> organizations. This is also why we have such a hodge-podge of DNA >>> > results >>> >> and why some of the stuff we see does not match what we would think >>> > because >>> >> the person who submitted the DNA was really not a descendant of the >>> >> person >>> >> they think they descend from. >>> >> I was talking with a MAY cousin who is trying to track his MAY >>> > ancestry. >>> >> He got a 24/25 marker match with some fellow in TN but I told him a >> 24/25 >>> >> marker test only indicates they had a common ancestor within the past >>> >> 8 >>> >> generations. I told him as close as he should have been to this >> person, >>> > he >>> >> should have had a 25/25 marker match because, at the most, both of >>> >> them >>> > were >>> >> only 5 generations removed from their "most recent common ancestor" >>> > (MCRA). >>> >> I would almost guarantee you that my DNA would give a perfect >>> >> 25/25 >>> >> match with someone from my RICHTER family in Germany if we were >> descended >>> >> from the same common Prussian ancestor, which is only five >>> >> generations >>> >> removed for me. As for Joe's DNA test, he is only 4 generations >> removed >>> >> from Charles MAY born 1778 in Edgefield County, SC which means their >> MRCA >>> > is >>> >> located at least three generation beyond that time frame - a GGF of >>> > Charles >>> >> MAY. This really pushes them back to some time in the 1600's and >>> >> maybe >>> > even >>> >> back to the old country, where ever that was. >>> >> Take MS Lucy's recent DNA test. She, also, got a 24/25 marker >> match >>> > but >>> >> this only indicates this person shared a MCRA at their 5th to 6th GGF >>> > level. >>> >> Since MS Lucy is only four generations removed from William DANIEL >>> >> born >>> > 1760 >>> >> this means their MCRA was William DANIEL's GGF. That, was also a >>> >> long >>> > time >>> >> ago. >>> >> With a 25 marker test you should get a perfect match (25/25) with >> any >>> >> person with whom you share a MCRA within the past seven generations. >> In >>> >> simple terms, if you and they share, at least, a 5th GGF, you should >> get >>> >> a >>> >> perfect match. If you share a MCRA beyond that, the match will >> diminish, >>> >> statistically. For most of us, that puts a perfect match well into >>> >> the >>> >> 1600's and I do not think we are searching for information much >>> >> beyond >>> > that, >>> >> at least in this country. >>> >> >>> >> John R. Clarke >>> >> Thomasville, GA >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >>> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:01 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>> >> GA >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > Duplin/Sampson, NC Deed Records.....Feb 1765, pg, 186 & 187 >>> >> > Aaron DANIEL & wife, Elizabeth to George FRAZIER, both of >>> >> > Duplin County, 100ac.for 30 pds. ,near Goshen Swamp, adjecent >>> >> > Mathew WHITFIELD. >>> >> > Witness: Moses DANIEL, Mathew WHITFIELD, James OUTLAW. >>> >> > Signed: Aaron DANIEL, Elizabeth DANIEL >>> >> > >>> >> > Judy Garner, >>> >> > Sebring,FL >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> > From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >>> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:51 PM >>> >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin >>> >> > County, >> GA >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> Is this Abraham Daniel(1763-1832) mentioned as son-in-law to James >>> >> >> Cooper? >>> >> >> Abraham married Jane Moore, ca 1796? Their first child was born >>> >> >> 1797. >>> >> >> He >>> >> >> was 33, when he married Jane Moore, so could have been married >>> >> >> before.......to the daughter of James Cooper. Abraham is the son >> of >>> >> > Aaron >>> >> >> Daniel RS (1735-1790) and Elizabeth Whitfield(1740-1804). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Judy Garner >>> >> >> Sebring,FL >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:40 AM >>> >> >> Subject: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>> >> >> GA >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Good Morning, >>> >> >> > I thought this was a very interesting will since a James COOPER >>> >> > supposedly >>> >> >> > married Elizabeth DANIEL, d/o Rev. Thomas DANIEL and Sarah >>> >> >> > BURNEY >> of >>> >> >> Greene >>> >> >> > County, GA. If so, what was an Abraham DANIEL doing on this >>> >> >> > will >> as >>> > a >>> >> >> > son-in-law? We also know COOPER did not die in Greene County, >>> >> >> > GA >> in >>> >> > 1807, >>> >> >> > as some suggest, but Baldwin County, GA in 1818 or so.... >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Also, notice that BARNES listed in this will. That tends to >>> >> >> > tell >> me >>> >> >> either >>> >> >> > that this DANIEL was from Edgecombe or Northampton County, NC. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > However, several interesting points in all of this -- Abraham >>> >> >> > was >> an >>> >> >> > IOW >>> >> >> > DANIEL name, BARNES is an IOW DANIEL collateral and this DANIEL >>> >> >> > bunch >>> >> > sure >>> >> >> > looks like an IOW DANIEL family to me, but then, again..... >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > <<< >>> >> >> > Will Book A, Baldwin County, GA >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > COOPER, JAMES 1/21/1812 - 3/2/1818 >>> >> >> > Wife: not named >>> >> >> > Children: Davis Cooper, Thomas Cooper, John Cooper, Milbry >> McGintry, >>> >> > Nancy >>> >> >> > Barnes >>> >> >> > Others mentioned: Son-in-law - Abraham Daniel; Nathaniel C. >> Waller, >>> >> > James >>> >> >> > Rice, John Gill >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > John R. Clarke >>> >> >> > Thomasville, GA >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> >> > IF YOU MISS ANY MESSAGE: You can easily search the DANIEL List >>> > Archives >>> >> >> at: >>> >> >> > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=DANIEL >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> >> DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting >> of >>> >> > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral >>> > families >>> >> > or >>> >> > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- >>> >> > are >>> > not >>> >> > allowed on this list. >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you >> change >>> >> > the subject of a reply message. >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >>> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a >> suggestion >>> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >>> > to >>> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >>> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a >> suggestion >>> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >>> > to >>> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >> the subject of a reply message. >>> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >> the subject of a reply message. >> >> > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the > subject of a reply message. > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting of > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral families > or those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- are > not allowed on this list. > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe Click on the following link and your message is ready to send Mail Mode: mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe or- Digest Mode: mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe

In a message dated 4/10/2004 9:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com writes: > 6. Sarah, b:1730, Daughter of Thomas DANIEL and Elizabeth LANIER ~ M:Algermon Wilson, M2:John Wilson. No idea about this Algernon Wilson. John (Wilson) spelled his name Willson. Thanks Annie, Sarah the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth did not marry an Algernon Wilson. She just married a John Willson. Sarah Proctor Daniell of the Robert Daniell family married Algernon Wilson and they had nine chldren leaving no room for a marriage to a John Wilson. It has been incorrectly stated that Sarah Proctor Daniel was married to a John Wilson but the data is for Algeronon Wilson. Two different families. Payne

In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:40:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jclarke@rose.net writes: Notice the William SWANNER who was a witness to this deed. John, As to your reference to William SWANNER please consider the following Tyrell Co. estate records: 391. SWANNER, Mathias Tobias 4 Jun 1746. Bond for Darby BRYAN to be guardian to Samuel SWANNER, orphan of the dec'd. Bondsmen: William (X) HASSELL, William KENNEDY. 14 Jun 1746. Bond for Robert DANIEL to be guardian to William SWANNER [later called William LINIEAR] orphan of the dec'd. Bondsmen: John HARDISON, William KENNEDY. 3 Sep 1746. Bond for William LANIER of Beaufort Co. to be guardian to George Mathias SWANNER, orphan of the dec'd. Bondsmen: John LANIER, Robert Lanier DANIEL (both of Tyrell Co.) This one puzzles me. Why would William SWANNER be later called William LINIEAR [LANIER?] if he were ward of Robert DANIEL? Is Robert DANIEL, guardian of William SWANNER, and Robert Lanier DANIEL, bondsman for William Lanier's guardianship of George Matthias SWANNER one in the same? At any rate the SWANNERS obviously had some ties to the DANIEL/LANIERS. Mike Daniel

Payne, My guess is that all of T&E's kids were born in Chowan or Tyrrell County, NC, so take your pick. Since Edenton, NC was the thriving metropolis of that area in that time frame, they probably lived somewhere near Edenton, maybe right across the sound in Tyrrell County, NC, as most suggest. Remember, the POLLACKS and I assume, CULLENS, lived adjacent to them, according to deeds of the period. What I find interesting is that Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL's will was probated in Beaufort County, NC in 1752. Did she move down from Tyrrell to be with her oldest son, RLD, after Thomas's death in 1749, since Pitt was formed from Beaufort and RLD, actually lived right on the border with Beaufort in Pactolus, Pitt County, NC. This, to me, would be the reason her will was probated in Beaufort and not in Tyrrell. What I find a little bit worrisome about Aaron is his connection to Duplin County, NC but this may be because Matthew WHITFIELD was lived, there. We do know that Matthew WHITFIELD, his father-in-law, was living in the Cheraw area, later, and Aaron seems to have followed him to this part of SC. I think we can straighten out Aaron and Betsy's family but we need some more information, like accurate vestry records from St. David's Church in Cheraw, SC. I also know they are on microfilm in the SC archives but I do not like it when I see his name listed in some family references to this church and not listed in impartial transcriptions of these church vestry records. That, tells me something may be amiss, here. Not to forget there were about three Aaron DANIELS operating in upstate SC in this same time frame........ It takes more than just a given name to connect a son or daughter to a set of parents. If we connect siblings to each other and one of these siblings to a set of parents, this is sufficient proof to establish the parents of the rest of these known siblings. However, in thinking back over the T&E bunch, I do not think we can tie any of these children back to T&E. can we? I went back and looked at the Robert Lanier DANIEL deed to John LANIER where his wife was mentioned as a Jemima DANIEL. This has to be the John LANIER who was a sister of Elizabeth LANIER who married Thomas DANIEL. The thing that bothered me was the reference to the SMITHWICK name in this deed. Not to forget the Jemima that was a daughter of Robert DANIEL of Martin County, NC who married Mary SWAIN, whose mother was a SMITHWICK. Notice the William SWANNER who was a witness to this deed. I somehow get the feeling this RLD may not be the RLD we think of later in Pitt. If he is selling the home place, which requires the wife to sign away her dower rights, then this Robert may be older than we think. It could also well be Robert DANIEL of Martin and his first wife, Jemima, and after her death he married Mary SWAIN born ABT 1722 because I do not start picking up kids for them until AFT 1760. This would account for the SMITHWICK connection and the Jemima name connection in this family. However, this Robert L. DANIELL says he was of Beaufort County, NC and not Tyrrell County, NC or even Edgecombe. . If there are more than one RLD's operating in this time frame in this general area, this may also account for all of the Robert Lanier DANIELS we see floating around this area in this time frame. There is something not right, here, and I do not know quite what it is..... John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >I thought you were suggesting that Aaron was born someplace else, was He? >As > to the notes, the originals back at St. David's Church, I haven't an > opinion > yet! > > Payne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:03 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > > Payne, > Why did you mention the Lenoir County, NC POB for Aaron? I do not > think > your notes are cobbled up but these notes that I have for Aaron do not > compare with the originals back at St. David's Church, although some of > the > same names are on both of these sources. > > This tells me that someone has added Aaron's name to this list of names > at St. David's Church. Or, Virginia PROCTOR left his name off this list > for > some unknown reason. I do not know which is correct but that is what she > has on the Marlboro County, SC website. This is why the Vestry Records > of > St. David's Church need to be looked at and compared against these notes > to > see where they differ. > > I also found some very interesting deeds on this Marlboro County, SC > website, especially an 1816 deed for a John DERDEN (below). As I have > told > you several times, my grandmother, ended up with Land Lot 74 in Land > District 19 in Morgan County, GA, formerly part of Baldwin County. This > was > land owned by John DURDEN, who went bankrupt in 1873 and his land was sold > at the courthouse square in Madison and guess what he did -- he bought it > all back, at least LL 74, LD 19. However, guess who ended up with it and > there is no grantee-grantor record of how she got it? My grandmother, > Alice > Daniel RICHTER. Neither Marshall WILLIAMS, archivist of Morgan County, nor > I > have ever been able to figure this one out. > > My opinion is that John DURDEN was some kind of family and Alice took her > $700 inheritance from her father, Robert W. DANIEL, which she had gotten a > few years before (1867) her marriage to John RICHTER (1872), and bailed > out > John DURDEN because the purchase price was $709.25, almost exactly what > she > had gotten from her father's estate. Then, after his death, she inherited > the property which is why there is not a Grantor-Grantee record of this > transaction. > > > Note: There are also some very familiar names in this 1816 SC deed. Maybe > someone will see somthing that I do not. > > <<< > John DERDEN to James FIELDS, 1816 Contributed by Brenda Wagner > > John Derden of the District of Chesterfield, for $5000, to James Fields of > the District of Marlboro, 200 acres, a tract granted by Arthur Dobbs to > Robert Palmer, 10 Oct 1755, and conveyed by Wm. Palmer, attorny, for > Robert > Palmer, by lease and release 14 & 15 Dec 1773, to John May Junr, and by > John > May Junr. to Wm. Blakeny, 5 March 1791, and from Wm. Blakeny to John > Derden, > 12 Aug 1802, on both sides Thomson's Creek, 100 acres, being half of a > survey of 200 acres granted to Hartwell Weaver, 5 Dec 1791., also one > other > parcel, it being a part of 800 acres granted to Abner Lowry, 10 March > 1791, > 125 acres, at the first fork of Macks branch, above the school house fork, > adj. John P. Rushing; another tract granted to Benjn. Thermon, 75 acres, > being the lands whereon I now live at the cross roads or otherwise cauled > Mount Croghan; also several other pieces or parcels of land containing > seven > hundred and forty hacres, originall granted to Gustavas Hendrick, Asey > Hendrick & Samuel Alsobrooks, and conveyed by sd. Gustavas Hendrick to > John > Derden, by deed 22 May 1804, agreeable to a resurvay with the exception of > 116 acres previously sold to James Derden, and 62 to Obediah Meadows; also > one other tract on the North side of Thomsons Creek originally granted to > David Hendrick, 3 March 1794.18 July 1816. > >>>> > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > >> Thanks for the record. I continue to be interested in the dates of birth >> you >> have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? I will look at >> my >> notes about Aaron but I don't think it's my notes you refer to as >> "cobbled >> up", so are those notes from a source not mentioned here.? >> >> " It hurts when I swing, and it hurts when I don't." Arnold Palmer, 74 >> years >> of age. >> >> Payne >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >>> Payne, >>> >>> Someone has really cobbled up these notes about Aaron DANIEL. I went to >> the >>> "hoss's mouth" and looked them up, myself, and he did not join a St. >> David's >>> Scottish Presbyterian Church, he seems to have joined the St. David's >>> Church, a church of the Church of England. Interesting. >>> >>> What is even more interesting is Aaron DANIEL was not listed in any of >>> the >>> records these sources have listed for him, although the other names, >>> like >>> Samuel WISE,. Jesse COUNCIL, and others, are. The vestry notes are at >>> the >>> bottom of this page. >>> >>> That said, there should be some note of Aaron and Betsy in the vestry >>> minutes of this church which are in the SC Archives and which have also >> been >>> published by Brent HOLCOLMB. >>> >>> This is just another example of where folks have cobbled up, commingled >> and, >>> it appears, out fabricated some of the stuff you see about Aaron and >> Betsy. >>> This is why I have always said, there are those who seem more than >>> willing >>> to fabricate their families genealogy to suit their own needs but it is >>> rather difficult to do so over several other families, as well as when >> faced >>> with irrefutable historical documents. >>> >>> This information is from the Marlboro County, SC website. : >>> >>> <<< >>> Please note that because the Vestry of St. David's also served the >> community >>> as a political body (voting, collecting taxes, etc.), early records will >>> contain the names of members of all religious denominations. >>> >>> Minutes of the Vestry >>> April 1768 >>> The following gentlemen were named Commissioners for the Parish of St. >>> David's: >>> >>> Claudius Pegues Charles Bedingfield >>> Philip Pledger James James >>> Alexander Mackintosh Robert Weaver >>> George Hicks James Thomson >>> Thomas Ellerbee Thomas Crawford >>> Robert Alison Thomas Porte >>> Thomas Lide Benjamin Rogers >>> >>> August 1st 1768 >>> The Commissioners met at the House of Mr. Charles Bedingfield. >>> Absent were Thomas Ellerbee, Robert Weaver, James Thomson, Thomas >>> Crawford >>> and Thomas Porte. >>> >>> Declining to act as Commissioners were Alexander Mackintosh, James James >>> and Robert Alison. >>> >>> Elections were held. >>> Elected as Vestry Men: >>> Claudius Pegues, Philip Pledger, William Godfrey, Charles Bedingfield, >>> Thomas Lide, Thomas Ellerbee, Thomas Bingham >>> >>> Elected as Church Wardens: >>> Alexander Gordon and Benjamin Rogers. >>> >>> Durham Hitts was appointed Clerk of the Vestry. >>> >>> Electors were: >>> William Hardwick >>> Duke Glen >>> John Mackintosh >>> John Jenkins >>> Edward Ellerbee >>> John Husbands >>> Thomas Boatright, Senr. >>> Jesse Counsell >>> John Pledger >>> Robert Clary >>> Robert Anderson >>> Benjamin Jackson >>> James Knight >>> Samuel Wise >>> James Thursby >>> Thomas Williams >>> Thomas Wade >>> Leonard Dozier >>> <<< >>> >>> John R. Clarke >>> Thomasville, GA >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> >>> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:48 AM >>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >>> >>> >>> >I take it John that your are stating your opinions and suspicions, and >>> >by >>> > the way, what's wrong with Radford, Lenoir, NC, being the birth place >>> > of >>> > Aaron Daniel? What list of children do you support for Ensign Aaron >>> > and >>> > Elizabeth Whitfield Daniel? According to Ingersol, page 414, Aaron was >>> > born >>> > in 1739 and died in 1790 in Cheraw District, SC. I am not a fan of >>> > Ingersol >>> > so your 1733 may be closer? I would also be interested in the dates of >>> > birth >>> > you have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? >>> > >>> > From lovely New Tampa, Florida. Payne >>> > >>> > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and >>> > statistics." >>> > -- Benjamin Disraeli >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:09 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>> > GA >>> > >>> > >>> >> Judy, >>> >> That is correct but Duplin and Sampson County, NC were not what I >>> > would >>> >> consider to be "normal stomping grounds" for the Lanier-Daniels. >>> >> Number one, this Moses has to be at least 16 to be witness of a >> deed >>> > and >>> >> that puts his DOB as 1749, probably closer to 1744, making him at >>> >> least >>> >> of >>> >> majority. This puts him as a contemporary of Aaron and not his son. >>> > There >>> >> is no Moses listed in the will of Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL, is >> there? >>> >> We also have reports there was an Abraham DANIEL born prior to 1750 >>> > floating >>> >> around this bunch and that, too, puts him as a contemporary of Aaron >> and >>> >> also not his son. >>> >> You see we really do not know when Aaron was born, do we? Some >>> >> say >>> > 1739 >>> >> but that is incorrect. He had to be born by 1733 not to be listed as >>> >> a >>> >> minor in his father's 1749 will nor was he listed as a minor in his >>> > mother's >>> >> 1752 will, was he? That means that he was born at least by 1733, >>> >> probably >>> >> before. >>> >> I also always go with the general rule of Southern families, as >> these >>> >> DANIELS were, that parents tend to name their children after a >>> >> combination >>> >> of the given names of their father's and mother's families, with a >>> >> few >>> > vogue >>> >> names thrown in from time to time. I also go with the general rule >> that >>> >> Yankee families went more towards Bible oriented given names, due to >>> >> their >>> >> Puritan influence, than did most Southern folks. >>> >> Southerners, for the most part, have always gone with tradition, >> even >>> >> then. This does not mean there was not an occasional family where >>> > religion >>> >> dominated every part of their lives and they would name their >>> >> children >>> > after >>> >> biblical characters because there were these occasional families. >>> > However, >>> >> for the most part Southern families were real big in naming their >>> >> children >>> >> according to tradition and that tradition indicates they will use >> family >>> >> names for their chillen. >>> >> There were several Biblical names used in the WHITFIELDS that we >> know >>> >> of, Matthew and Luke, but their other given names are generally >>> >> family >>> >> names. When you go back to the BRYANS, they re-use family names, >>> >> like >>> >> water. There are hundreds of Rachels, Penelopes, Williams and Johns. >>> > Even >>> >> the WARRENS tended to re-use family names, as best I can tell. >>> >> So, when I look at what I would think would be the given names >>> >> for >>> > Capt. >>> >> Aaron and Betsy Whitfield DANIEL's kids, I would look at some type of >>> >> combination of these names as possible given names for their >>> >> children. >>> > Yet, >>> >> we do not see these names used in this family to any degree. That >> makes >>> > me >>> >> really wonder about this DANIEL family, assuming we believe the >>> >> claims >> of >>> >> some of their descendants concerning the identity of their ancestors. >>> >> All of these Southern families of this era named their children >>> >> in >> an >>> >> almost identical fashion. I cannot tell you how many Williams and >> Johns >>> >> there are in my families of this period and these were families that >> not >>> >> only lived right around these DANIELS but also had collateral links >>> >> to >>> > them. >>> >> Without a will for either Aaron or Betsy, where their children >>> >> are >>> >> actually named, or some type or other contemporary document outlining >>> >> this >>> >> family to some degree, then what we see in POWG is highly suspect. >>> >> Our >>> >> major problem, today, is not in actually researching these various >> lines >>> > but >>> >> in straightening out the mess of early family researchers who did not >>> >> have >>> >> access to the documents we have available to us, today. >>> >> What these early researchers did was take "family myth" and force >> the >>> >> pieces of the known puzzle of the time into the holes on the board, >>> > whether >>> >> they actually fit or not. This is why you see both 10 and 60 year >>> >> old >>> >> females giving birth to children. The problem is -- we now know they >>> >> skipped a generation or two in between. >>> >> Yet, there are those who will fight to keep their established >>> > genealogy, >>> >> even with faced with the impossibility of such an assignment, because >>> >> a >>> >> change in that assignment would effect their membership in various >>> >> organizations. This is also why we have such a hodge-podge of DNA >>> > results >>> >> and why some of the stuff we see does not match what we would think >>> > because >>> >> the person who submitted the DNA was really not a descendant of the >>> >> person >>> >> they think they descend from. >>> >> I was talking with a MAY cousin who is trying to track his MAY >>> > ancestry. >>> >> He got a 24/25 marker match with some fellow in TN but I told him a >> 24/25 >>> >> marker test only indicates they had a common ancestor within the past >>> >> 8 >>> >> generations. I told him as close as he should have been to this >> person, >>> > he >>> >> should have had a 25/25 marker match because, at the most, both of >>> >> them >>> > were >>> >> only 5 generations removed from their "most recent common ancestor" >>> > (MCRA). >>> >> I would almost guarantee you that my DNA would give a perfect >>> >> 25/25 >>> >> match with someone from my RICHTER family in Germany if we were >> descended >>> >> from the same common Prussian ancestor, which is only five >>> >> generations >>> >> removed for me. As for Joe's DNA test, he is only 4 generations >> removed >>> >> from Charles MAY born 1778 in Edgefield County, SC which means their >> MRCA >>> > is >>> >> located at least three generation beyond that time frame - a GGF of >>> > Charles >>> >> MAY. This really pushes them back to some time in the 1600's and >>> >> maybe >>> > even >>> >> back to the old country, where ever that was. >>> >> Take MS Lucy's recent DNA test. She, also, got a 24/25 marker >> match >>> > but >>> >> this only indicates this person shared a MCRA at their 5th to 6th GGF >>> > level. >>> >> Since MS Lucy is only four generations removed from William DANIEL >>> >> born >>> > 1760 >>> >> this means their MCRA was William DANIEL's GGF. That, was also a >>> >> long >>> > time >>> >> ago. >>> >> With a 25 marker test you should get a perfect match (25/25) with >> any >>> >> person with whom you share a MCRA within the past seven generations. >> In >>> >> simple terms, if you and they share, at least, a 5th GGF, you should >> get >>> >> a >>> >> perfect match. If you share a MCRA beyond that, the match will >> diminish, >>> >> statistically. For most of us, that puts a perfect match well into >>> >> the >>> >> 1600's and I do not think we are searching for information much >>> >> beyond >>> > that, >>> >> at least in this country. >>> >> >>> >> John R. Clarke >>> >> Thomasville, GA >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >>> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:01 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>> >> GA >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > Duplin/Sampson, NC Deed Records.....Feb 1765, pg, 186 & 187 >>> >> > Aaron DANIEL & wife, Elizabeth to George FRAZIER, both of >>> >> > Duplin County, 100ac.for 30 pds. ,near Goshen Swamp, adjecent >>> >> > Mathew WHITFIELD. >>> >> > Witness: Moses DANIEL, Mathew WHITFIELD, James OUTLAW. >>> >> > Signed: Aaron DANIEL, Elizabeth DANIEL >>> >> > >>> >> > Judy Garner, >>> >> > Sebring,FL >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> > From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >>> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:51 PM >>> >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin >>> >> > County, >> GA >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> Is this Abraham Daniel(1763-1832) mentioned as son-in-law to James >>> >> >> Cooper? >>> >> >> Abraham married Jane Moore, ca 1796? Their first child was born >>> >> >> 1797. >>> >> >> He >>> >> >> was 33, when he married Jane Moore, so could have been married >>> >> >> before.......to the daughter of James Cooper. Abraham is the son >> of >>> >> > Aaron >>> >> >> Daniel RS (1735-1790) and Elizabeth Whitfield(1740-1804). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Judy Garner >>> >> >> Sebring,FL >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >>> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:40 AM >>> >> >> Subject: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >>> >> >> GA >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Good Morning, >>> >> >> > I thought this was a very interesting will since a James COOPER >>> >> > supposedly >>> >> >> > married Elizabeth DANIEL, d/o Rev. Thomas DANIEL and Sarah >>> >> >> > BURNEY >> of >>> >> >> Greene >>> >> >> > County, GA. If so, what was an Abraham DANIEL doing on this >>> >> >> > will >> as >>> > a >>> >> >> > son-in-law? We also know COOPER did not die in Greene County, >>> >> >> > GA >> in >>> >> > 1807, >>> >> >> > as some suggest, but Baldwin County, GA in 1818 or so.... >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Also, notice that BARNES listed in this will. That tends to >>> >> >> > tell >> me >>> >> >> either >>> >> >> > that this DANIEL was from Edgecombe or Northampton County, NC. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > However, several interesting points in all of this -- Abraham >>> >> >> > was >> an >>> >> >> > IOW >>> >> >> > DANIEL name, BARNES is an IOW DANIEL collateral and this DANIEL >>> >> >> > bunch >>> >> > sure >>> >> >> > looks like an IOW DANIEL family to me, but then, again..... >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > <<< >>> >> >> > Will Book A, Baldwin County, GA >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > COOPER, JAMES 1/21/1812 - 3/2/1818 >>> >> >> > Wife: not named >>> >> >> > Children: Davis Cooper, Thomas Cooper, John Cooper, Milbry >> McGintry, >>> >> > Nancy >>> >> >> > Barnes >>> >> >> > Others mentioned: Son-in-law - Abraham Daniel; Nathaniel C. >> Waller, >>> >> > James >>> >> >> > Rice, John Gill >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > John R. Clarke >>> >> >> > Thomasville, GA >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> >> > IF YOU MISS ANY MESSAGE: You can easily search the DANIEL List >>> > Archives >>> >> >> at: >>> >> >> > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=DANIEL >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> >> DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting >> of >>> >> > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral >>> > families >>> >> > or >>> >> > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- >>> >> > are >>> > not >>> >> > allowed on this list. >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you >> change >>> >> > the subject of a reply message. >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> >> If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >>> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a >> suggestion >>> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >>> > to >>> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >>> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a >> suggestion >>> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >>> > to >>> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >>> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >> the subject of a reply message. >>> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change >> the subject of a reply message. >> >> > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the > subject of a reply message. > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting of > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral families > or those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- are > not allowed on this list. > >

John, Just a comment, there is not proof that Robert Daniell married in to the CHAMBERLAINS. Just some guess work, but it is profitable to consider that aspect of the issue when you research the possible Daniell/Chamberlain connection. To my knowledge no one suspects that Robert Daniell was of humble origins? Because he owned about three ships, someone suggest that he was an English Privateer. Interesting, but probably untrue. BTW, he wasn't married three times either. As John says, there is some "Hog Wash" here and there. Later, Payne Way to go, PHIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier Good Morning, I can buy all of that but convincing others of that possibility is the problem. Some have characterized the LANIERS as nothing but a bunch of meat cutters from Barbados and Robert DANIELL's family as being nothing but a family of poor Welsh miners, or something along those lines. Maybe I have exaggerated a little bit, but you get the idea. <grin> As for Robert DANIELL, he seems more like a machinist, to me -- tooling it around everywhere. <grin> It is surprising to me that Charleston society was a kind to him as it seems to have been. I have understood the WAINWRIGHTS were of Bermuda but I will bet they were of a similar class to Robert because men have always had affairs but they usually did not marry persons outside of their class, even then. People, today, tend to forget that England was a very class conscious society in that time frame and one did not start at the bottom rung of the ladder and go all the way to the top, no matter who they were or even as a result of their accomplishments.. It was almost like the caste system used in India, until recent times where people were locked into the class of their birth. If you look over the list of names in the Lords Proprietors, then you will see nothing but the cream of English society because as we all know, society tends to dictate that the rich get the gravy and the poor get the shaft. That, was especially true back then. To think that Robert DANIEL emerged from some poor Welsh mining clan to become a Landgrave of the Carolinas is nothing but hogwash. To think he married into such an illustrious family, as the CHAMBERLAINS, from such humble Welsh beginnings is also hogwash. When you look at marriages in the 17th century, they were very class conscious. Granted, Robert DANIELL may not have been from the very top echelons of English society but he was far from the bottom rung of the ladder and his family must have been well connected, which in those days was usually based on money and property. What I am surprised is how fast some of his descendants seem to have deteriorated, class wise. Are you aware that one's religious preference is a key denominator of class? In the protestant faiths, you have the Episcopal Church at the top, followed closely by the Methodist and Presbyterian churches. In the days after the Revolutionary War, one church in particular was very paternalistic, the Baptists. How do you think this set with these patriots who just fought a war to keep from being told what to do by their English lords? Not very well, in my opinion. This same type of philosophy was incorporated into the Quaker faith which is why this religion descended after the RW. Paternalistic based religions only tend to flourish among the uneducated classes, not the educated classes, even today. Educated people just do not like to be told by their religions elders, what to do, when to do it and how it must be done. This is also probably why one sees so many agnostics and even atheists in society, today - current religions philosophies are a little too intrusive for them. This is why the Baptist religion of the DANIELLS of Oconee County, GA surprises me. Maybe William DANIELL's parents did not raise him properly or maybe his second wife was of a different class and she was in charge of their kids upbringing, that I do not know. Maybe even the uncertainty of life in that period tended to force people to accept a religion that dominated their personal lives, from start to finish. That, I do not know What I do know is -- I would not have tolerated that kind of religious dominance, even then. . The Baptist faith has changed somewhat over the course of the past 200 years and is a little less intrusive than it used to be, but it is still much more intrusive than other protestant religions. People also tended to join their community church and the community church in their area of GA may have been Baptist and once they became locked into a specific church, they were also locked into that religion. That, I also do not know. What I do know is that none of my family were of the Baptist faith which tells me a lot about them. My wife once told me a rather simple definition of class. "High class people talk about ideas, middle class people talk about money and low rents talk about others." I will end this on that tid-bit of Connecticut wisdom..... <grin> John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier > > Probably nothing not already discussed, or of interest here... but > Elizabeth > LANIER is shown with her Thomas DANIEL in the family of Robert, and can > see > how the two Sarah DANIELs marrying WILLSON or WILSON could be > confusing.....same > Wilson book, pgs 8 and 9 ~ > > "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., > Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 > > > Robert DANIEL I > The English DANIELLs are of Norman origin, descending from the D'ANVERS or > DANYERs family, who held estates in Cheshire in the reign of Henry III and > bore > arms "Arg. a pale fusily sa." which appear to be identical with those > engraved > on the seal of Colonel Robert DANIELL, progenitor of the Barbados branch. > Similar arms, were, however, borne by other DANIELL lines in the Heralds' > Visitations, that of London [originally from Norfolk] in 1634 showing > Robert DANIELL > of London, merchant, with a son Robert then aged three years. > > According to Hathaway's North Carolina History and Genealogy Register, > [below] the first known ancestor was Roger DANIELL the elder, who came > over with his > kinsman Miles CAREY from Bristol, England, to Virginia before 1644/45 ~ > Married UNKNOWN and had: > > 1. Roger DANIELL the younger, who came over from Bristol to Virginia > with > Roger, his father and their kinsman Miles CAREY ~ Married and had: > > 1.a. Robert DANIELL, Governor > 1.b. John DANIELL of Barbados ~ Married Ann UNKNOWN and had: > > 1.b.1. John DANIELL, baptized at St. James, Barbados in 1678 > 1.b.2. Thomas DANIELL of Tyrrell County, North Carolina, baptized at > St. > James, Barbados ~ dc: 1750, Tyrell County ~ Married Elizabeth LANIER of > Tyrell > County, daughter of Thomas LANIER. > 1.b.3. Wilbert DANIELL, of Virginia, who spent only a short time in > Barbados. > > ~O~ > 2. Darby DANIELL, who was living in Virginia in 1693. [brother to Roger > @ > 1.] > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Colonel Robert DANIELL was, according to his age on the memorial tablet, > born > in 1646 [1. Ray claims that he was born in Virginia ~ see later] and > although he was obviously possessed of considerable natural ability and > talent, he is > believed to have had influential family connections from his earliest > days. > > He married (1) between 1675 and 1680, to Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, bc: 1654 ~ > d: > 16 OCT 1711, daughter of Colonel Edmund Chamberlayne of Maughersbury, > County > of Glouucester. The CHAMBERLAYNE family through their marital connections > with > the PYE family were prominent in Barbados trading circles, and Robert > DANIELL > took up this mode of life. His wife was an heiress and evidently refused > to > share the dangers and vicissitudes of colonial sea trading. Robert and > Dorothy had one child, Robert II, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709. There > is no > indication in the records that Dorothy accompanied her husband on any of > his trips > to Barbados, Virginia, or the Carolinas. > > The year and circumstances of his first journey from England to Barbados > are > not known, but it must have been about the time of the Restoration or soon > after, and as he was a staunch Royalist and Churchman, political factors > are > unlikely to have been involved, and he was probably at first a merchant or > planter > and perhaps owner or part-owner of a ship. Neither is it known how long > he > remained in Barbados, indeed it is probable that after his first arrival > he > made several voyages to and from England. Hotten records his migration > from > Barbados to Carolina, 04 APR 1679, in the ship "Mary" with Nicholas > LOCKWOOD, > Commander. He was accompanied by his servant Mary COOPER. [2. The > Original > Lists of Persons of Quality, 1600 ~ 1700, London, 1874, edited by John > Camden > HOTTEN] > > He received a succession of land grants, the first being dated a year > before > his arrival [3. Warrants for Lands in South Carolina, A. S. SALLEY, JR ~ > see > later] Although he was one of the largest landholders in South Carolina, > he > was not land-hungry. In fact, in several instances he sold lands in a > very > short time, probably in order to provide working capital for his trading > adventures. > > He was taking an important part in the administrative life of Carolina > within > a few months of his arrival, making an appraisement of Thomas NERSE's > property in 1680, and is himself referred to as a landowner in South > Carolina on 15 > DEC 16800, and again on 07 MAY and 10 MAY 1682, on all occasions with the > rank > of Captain. > > McCRADY records that "among the leaders who came into the Province of > Carolina were some of great ability. Governor MOORE and Major Robert > DANIELL though > not among the first settlers, had each been in the Province some years. > DANIELL from Barbados in 1679, and had already taken an active part in its > affairs." > > His military rank appears to have varied. > In MAY and AUG 1692 he is described as Major > Captain in a deed dated 1693 [S.C.H. & G.M., Vol XI, pg 128] > Major and Commander of the ship "Daniell of South Carolina" on 24 NOV 1693 > [Ibid, Vol VIII, pg 210] > Captain in a Will appointing him as Executor in 1695 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 83] > Major again on 12 SEP 1696 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 236] > Major on 10 MAR 1696/97 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 24] > Major on 10 JAN 1697 [S.C.H.S. Collections, Vol 1, pg 144] > > In communications from the Lords Proprietors to the Governor and Council > at > Charles Town in 1698 [Ibid, Vol I, pg 456] his rank is given as Major and > in > 1702 he is styled Colonel [Rivers' Sketch, pg 20] and again in 1710, 1712 > and > 1716. > > In 1686 [Va Mag, Vol V, pg 81 ante.] he took an important part in the > action > against Spanish forces which had destroyed Stuart Town on Port Royal > Island > and other settlements in Carolina. Much of Robert DANIELL's time in the > 16800's > appears to have been spent in sailing his ships between America, Jamaica > and > Barbados [McCALL, TIDWELL and Allied Families, 1931, McCALL] > > His earliest extant signature "Robert Daniel" appears on a bond between > John > COMMINGS and Edward MAYO, 14 FEB 1680. The original contract is now in > the > possession of E. Roy DANIELL and Elizabeth HARLESTON DANIELL. > > The Will of Henry SYMMONDS of Charles Town, Vintner, proved before > Governor > BLAKE, 13 MAR 1695, appoints his friend Captain Robert DANIELL to be > executor > and trustee for testator's wife, Frances. The Will of Richard BUTLER, > made 12 > SEP 1696, appoints Major Robert DANIELL guardian to his wife and son. > > His career seems to have been little affected by his active opposition, > beginning in 1680, to Landgrave John COLLETON, even after the latter > became > Governor. He was a loyal adherent of Seth SOTHEL throughout that stormy > administration. In 1692 he was therefore excepted (with James MOORE) by > the Lords > Proprietors from the general pardon extended by them to all who had been > concerned in > Governor COLLETON's expulsion. Nevertheless, this did DANIELL little > harm, > and from then till the end of his life, his record was one of proomotion > and > achievement. In MAY 1692 as Major Robert DANIELL with Charles BURNHAM, he > was > entered as security for Robert GOSSE, who arrived in Carolina in the ship > "Loyal Jamaica" [Grant Book, Secretary of State's Office, 1672/94, pg 78] > > In 1697 he was appointed Deputy to the Earl of Craven ~ Commissions and > Instructions from the Lords Proprietors of Carolina to Public Officials of > South > Carolina, 1685~1715, pg 108. The Commission is as follows: > > William Lord CRAVEN one of ye true & absolute Lords & Proprietrs of ye > Province of Carolina ~ to Robert DANIELL, Esq. Whereas it is Appointed by > the Lords > Proprietrs of Carolina in their ffundamentall Constitutions and Rules of > Governmt that each of ye Lords Proprietrs shall Name a Deputy to be his > Representative in ye generall Assembly and Councell of Carolina. I out of > ye Confidence > I have in ye Wisdome, Prudence & Loyalty of you ye said Robert DANIELL Do > Constitute & Appoint you ye sd. Robert DANIELL to be my Deputy in that > Part of > our Province of Carolina wch llLyes South and West of Cape ffear, wth. > full > Power and Authority to Act and Exercise all such Powers & Things as to a > Proprietrs Depty do's Belong Given under my Hand and Seal the fourteenth > day of January > Anno Dom: 1697/8. CRAVEN (Seal) > > Robert DANIELL served with great distinction in the ill-fated expedition > led > by Governor MOORE against St. Augustine in Florida in 1702 [The History of > South Carolina under the Proprietary Government, 1670 ~ 1719, by Edward > McCRADY, > 1897, pg 381 et seq] > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Ray's Index and Digest to Hathaway's N.C. History and Gen. Register, > 19945, > pg 38: > The popular conception of Governor DANIEL's genealogical history is that > he > was born in England, whereas, the weight of the suggestive, if not > positive, > evidence is that he was born in York or Warwick County, Virginia. No one > has > been able to determine with certainty the exact year in which Miles CARY, > the > emigrant arrived in Virginia, but it was prior to 1644/45 at least. He > was from > Bristol, England, and brought over with him his "known kinsman" Roger > DANIEL > and his son Roger DANIEL, JR. The latter was the father of Governor > Robert > DANIEL, who with his two brothers, John and Wilbert, fled to the Barbadoes > to > escape the wrath of BERKLEY after the rebellion stirred up by Nathaniel > BACON. > > Wilbert DANIEL remained in the Island only a few months, after which he > returned to Virginia. Prior to his going there on NOV 13, 1678, he had > been one of > the subscribing witnesses to the Will of Henry ISHAM at Varina, in Henrico > County, whose wife was the widow of ROYAL, and whose son Henry ROYAL in > 1693 > witnessed with Darby DANIEL (uncle of Governor Robert) the Will of his > stepson, > Henry COPELAND in Elizabeth City. > > John DANIEL, the other brother, remained in the Barbadoes for some time > and > the St James Parish Records there show the birth of two sons, John [JR] in > 1678 > and Thomas in 1679. > > Robert DANIEL had married Dorothy CHAMBERLAINE, by whom he had one son, > Robert, and John DANIEL, his brother, married [in Barbadoes~?] to Ann > UNKNOWN. > Thomas DANIEL, b: 1679, married Elizabeth LANIER, daughter of Thomas > Lanier, who > was living for a time in the Island, and both Thomas DANIEL and Thomas > LANIER > died in Tyrrell County, NC about 1750, as disclosed by these Hathaway > records. > > Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN, the first wife of Robert DANIEL, had a sister who > appears to have been the wife of John LEAR, Clerk of Nansemond County, > Virginia, > hence Robert DANIEL and the old Clerk were brothers-in-law. Dorothy also > had a > nephew Marmaduke CHAMBERLAINE, for whom Governor DANIEL named his second > grandson. > > North Carolina History & Gen. Register, Vol 1, pg 199, refers to Thomas > DANIEL, John DANIEL and Robert DANIEL. > [Will of Milles CARY of Warwick County, Virginia, dtd 09 JUN 1667, pr. 21 > JUN > 1667, Warwick County, left his grey mare and that parcel or tract of land > called "Gaole" with all the rents and profits, to Roger DANIELL ~ The > Virginia > CARYs, Harrison, 1919, pgs 164~167]. > > Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN was not the first Chamberlaine to marry a DANIELL. > "A" > Robert DANIELL married (2) to Margaret CHAMBERLAIN who died at Edmonton, > Middlesex, 30 JUL 1663. > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe Click on the following link and your message is ready to send Mail Mode: mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe or- Digest Mode: mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe

I will say right off that the info about Robert Daniell I is full of errors. If this refers to Robert Daniell of Charleston, then he, Colonel Robert DANIELL, was not the progenitor of the Barbados branch. There is also no proof that Col. Robert was out of the Danyers of England since it is only likely that Robert Daniell of Mass was from this family. I cover Robert of Mass. on my web page. There is no proof to suggest that Robert Daniell of Charleston was of Scottish origin as some imply. As far as can be proved, he came from England, had a stop over in Barbados, moved on to SC, and died there. He is buried under St. Philips Church in Charleston. If I am incorrect, then I suspect that Ken will help me see the truth. Also, Roy Daniel of England will tell you that very few, if any, Danyers/Daniells came over to Barbados or America. And, my old standby, Col. William Daniel of Wigan, or his children were not immigrants to America. Oh, Robert Daniell was not a son of Roger Daniell as implied by some researchers. The truth is, nobody can prove the exact origin of either, but it is sure fun to look for the facts. Sorry, I got carried away. Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier Probably nothing not already discussed, or of interest here... but Elizabeth LANIER is shown with her Thomas DANIEL in the family of Robert, and can see how the two Sarah DANIELs marrying WILLSON or WILSON could be confusing.....same Wilson book, pgs 8 and 9 ~ "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 Robert DANIEL I The English DANIELLs are of Norman origin, descending from the D'ANVERS or DANYERs family, who held estates in Cheshire in the reign of Henry III and bore arms "Arg. a pale fusily sa." which appear to be identical with those engraved on the seal of Colonel Robert DANIELL, progenitor of the Barbados branch. Similar arms, were, however, borne by other DANIELL lines in the Heralds' Visitations, that of London [originally from Norfolk] in 1634 showing Robert DANIELL of London, merchant, with a son Robert then aged three years. According to Hathaway's North Carolina History and Genealogy Register, [below] the first known ancestor was Roger DANIELL the elder, who came over with his kinsman Miles CAREY from Bristol, England, to Virginia before 1644/45 ~ Married UNKNOWN and had: 1. Roger DANIELL the younger, who came over from Bristol to Virginia with Roger, his father and their kinsman Miles CAREY ~ Married and had: 1.a. Robert DANIELL, Governor 1.b. John DANIELL of Barbados ~ Married Ann UNKNOWN and had: 1.b.1. John DANIELL, baptized at St. James, Barbados in 1678 1.b.2. Thomas DANIELL of Tyrrell County, North Carolina, baptized at St. James, Barbados ~ dc: 1750, Tyrell County ~ Married Elizabeth LANIER of Tyrell County, daughter of Thomas LANIER. 1.b.3. Wilbert DANIELL, of Virginia, who spent only a short time in Barbados. ~O~ 2. Darby DANIELL, who was living in Virginia in 1693. [brother to Roger @ 1.] ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Colonel Robert DANIELL was, according to his age on the memorial tablet, born in 1646 [1. Ray claims that he was born in Virginia ~ see later] and although he was obviously possessed of considerable natural ability and talent, he is believed to have had influential family connections from his earliest days. He married (1) between 1675 and 1680, to Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, bc: 1654 ~ d: 16 OCT 1711, daughter of Colonel Edmund Chamberlayne of Maughersbury, County of Glouucester. The CHAMBERLAYNE family through their marital connections with the PYE family were prominent in Barbados trading circles, and Robert DANIELL took up this mode of life. His wife was an heiress and evidently refused to share the dangers and vicissitudes of colonial sea trading. Robert and Dorothy had one child, Robert II, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709. There is no indication in the records that Dorothy accompanied her husband on any of his trips to Barbados, Virginia, or the Carolinas. The year and circumstances of his first journey from England to Barbados are not known, but it must have been about the time of the Restoration or soon after, and as he was a staunch Royalist and Churchman, political factors are unlikely to have been involved, and he was probably at first a merchant or planter and perhaps owner or part-owner of a ship. Neither is it known how long he remained in Barbados, indeed it is probable that after his first arrival he made several voyages to and from England. Hotten records his migration from Barbados to Carolina, 04 APR 1679, in the ship "Mary" with Nicholas LOCKWOOD, Commander. He was accompanied by his servant Mary COOPER. [2. The Original Lists of Persons of Quality, 1600 ~ 1700, London, 1874, edited by John Camden HOTTEN] He received a succession of land grants, the first being dated a year before his arrival [3. Warrants for Lands in South Carolina, A. S. SALLEY, JR ~ see later] Although he was one of the largest landholders in South Carolina, he was not land-hungry. In fact, in several instances he sold lands in a very short time, probably in order to provide working capital for his trading adventures. He was taking an important part in the administrative life of Carolina within a few months of his arrival, making an appraisement of Thomas NERSE's property in 1680, and is himself referred to as a landowner in South Carolina on 15 DEC 16800, and again on 07 MAY and 10 MAY 1682, on all occasions with the rank of Captain. McCRADY records that "among the leaders who came into the Province of Carolina were some of great ability. Governor MOORE and Major Robert DANIELL though not among the first settlers, had each been in the Province some years. DANIELL from Barbados in 1679, and had already taken an active part in its affairs." His military rank appears to have varied. In MAY and AUG 1692 he is described as Major Captain in a deed dated 1693 [S.C.H. & G.M., Vol XI, pg 128] Major and Commander of the ship "Daniell of South Carolina" on 24 NOV 1693 [Ibid, Vol VIII, pg 210] Captain in a Will appointing him as Executor in 1695 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 83] Major again on 12 SEP 1696 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 236] Major on 10 MAR 1696/97 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 24] Major on 10 JAN 1697 [S.C.H.S. Collections, Vol 1, pg 144] In communications from the Lords Proprietors to the Governor and Council at Charles Town in 1698 [Ibid, Vol I, pg 456] his rank is given as Major and in 1702 he is styled Colonel [Rivers' Sketch, pg 20] and again in 1710, 1712 and 1716. In 1686 [Va Mag, Vol V, pg 81 ante.] he took an important part in the action against Spanish forces which had destroyed Stuart Town on Port Royal Island and other settlements in Carolina. Much of Robert DANIELL's time in the 16800's appears to have been spent in sailing his ships between America, Jamaica and Barbados [McCALL, TIDWELL and Allied Families, 1931, McCALL] His earliest extant signature "Robert Daniel" appears on a bond between John COMMINGS and Edward MAYO, 14 FEB 1680. The original contract is now in the possession of E. Roy DANIELL and Elizabeth HARLESTON DANIELL. The Will of Henry SYMMONDS of Charles Town, Vintner, proved before Governor BLAKE, 13 MAR 1695, appoints his friend Captain Robert DANIELL to be executor and trustee for testator's wife, Frances. The Will of Richard BUTLER, made 12 SEP 1696, appoints Major Robert DANIELL guardian to his wife and son. His career seems to have been little affected by his active opposition, beginning in 1680, to Landgrave John COLLETON, even after the latter became Governor. He was a loyal adherent of Seth SOTHEL throughout that stormy administration. In 1692 he was therefore excepted (with James MOORE) by the Lords Proprietors from the general pardon extended by them to all who had been concerned in Governor COLLETON's expulsion. Nevertheless, this did DANIELL little harm, and from then till the end of his life, his record was one of proomotion and achievement. In MAY 1692 as Major Robert DANIELL with Charles BURNHAM, he was entered as security for Robert GOSSE, who arrived in Carolina in the ship "Loyal Jamaica" [Grant Book, Secretary of State's Office, 1672/94, pg 78] In 1697 he was appointed Deputy to the Earl of Craven ~ Commissions and Instructions from the Lords Proprietors of Carolina to Public Officials of South Carolina, 1685~1715, pg 108. The Commission is as follows: William Lord CRAVEN one of ye true & absolute Lords & Proprietrs of ye Province of Carolina ~ to Robert DANIELL, Esq. Whereas it is Appointed by the Lords Proprietrs of Carolina in their ffundamentall Constitutions and Rules of Governmt that each of ye Lords Proprietrs shall Name a Deputy to be his Representative in ye generall Assembly and Councell of Carolina. I out of ye Confidence I have in ye Wisdome, Prudence & Loyalty of you ye said Robert DANIELL Do Constitute & Appoint you ye sd. Robert DANIELL to be my Deputy in that Part of our Province of Carolina wch llLyes South and West of Cape ffear, wth. full Power and Authority to Act and Exercise all such Powers & Things as to a Proprietrs Depty do's Belong Given under my Hand and Seal the fourteenth day of January Anno Dom: 1697/8. CRAVEN (Seal) Robert DANIELL served with great distinction in the ill-fated expedition led by Governor MOORE against St. Augustine in Florida in 1702 [The History of South Carolina under the Proprietary Government, 1670 ~ 1719, by Edward McCRADY, 1897, pg 381 et seq] ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Ray's Index and Digest to Hathaway's N.C. History and Gen. Register, 19945, pg 38: The popular conception of Governor DANIEL's genealogical history is that he was born in England, whereas, the weight of the suggestive, if not positive, evidence is that he was born in York or Warwick County, Virginia. No one has been able to determine with certainty the exact year in which Miles CARY, the emigrant arrived in Virginia, but it was prior to 1644/45 at least. He was from Bristol, England, and brought over with him his "known kinsman" Roger DANIEL and his son Roger DANIEL, JR. The latter was the father of Governor Robert DANIEL, who with his two brothers, John and Wilbert, fled to the Barbadoes to escape the wrath of BERKLEY after the rebellion stirred up by Nathaniel BACON. Wilbert DANIEL remained in the Island only a few months, after which he returned to Virginia. Prior to his going there on NOV 13, 1678, he had been one of the subscribing witnesses to the Will of Henry ISHAM at Varina, in Henrico County, whose wife was the widow of ROYAL, and whose son Henry ROYAL in 1693 witnessed with Darby DANIEL (uncle of Governor Robert) the Will of his stepson, Henry COPELAND in Elizabeth City. John DANIEL, the other brother, remained in the Barbadoes for some time and the St James Parish Records there show the birth of two sons, John [JR] in 1678 and Thomas in 1679. Robert DANIEL had married Dorothy CHAMBERLAINE, by whom he had one son, Robert, and John DANIEL, his brother, married [in Barbadoes~?] to Ann UNKNOWN. Thomas DANIEL, b: 1679, married Elizabeth LANIER, daughter of Thomas Lanier, who was living for a time in the Island, and both Thomas DANIEL and Thomas LANIER died in Tyrrell County, NC about 1750, as disclosed by these Hathaway records. Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN, the first wife of Robert DANIEL, had a sister who appears to have been the wife of John LEAR, Clerk of Nansemond County, Virginia, hence Robert DANIEL and the old Clerk were brothers-in-law. Dorothy also had a nephew Marmaduke CHAMBERLAINE, for whom Governor DANIEL named his second grandson. North Carolina History & Gen. Register, Vol 1, pg 199, refers to Thomas DANIEL, John DANIEL and Robert DANIEL. [Will of Milles CARY of Warwick County, Virginia, dtd 09 JUN 1667, pr. 21 JUN 1667, Warwick County, left his grey mare and that parcel or tract of land called "Gaole" with all the rents and profits, to Roger DANIELL ~ The Virginia CARYs, Harrison, 1919, pgs 164~167]. Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN was not the first Chamberlaine to marry a DANIELL. "A" Robert DANIELL married (2) to Margaret CHAMBERLAIN who died at Edmonton, Middlesex, 30 JUL 1663. ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net

Good Morning, I read over in great detail your thoughts and references and I cannot find any general disagreement with what you have stated, although I am sure others will. I know for a fact that my DANIEL bunch was probably engaged, of long standing,.in the island trading community between Charleston, Virginia, New England and "the Islands." That, is pretty much certain. Why else would my DANIEL bunch be tied to the RICHTER and POTTER families of St. Croix or the RIVERS family of Charleston. The mother of these RIVERS boys of James Island, SC was a ROYALL, another name listed in your post. Another name listed in your post was ISHAM, a name long associated with both the LANES, SMITHS, BANKS and RANDOLPHS of Virginia. Not exactly white trash families. Personally, I do not know if Robert DANIELL of Charleston was related to Roger DANIELL of Warwick or not but I would almost bet money he was related to John DANIEL of Barbados. I would also almost bet money this whole bunch was tied to the LANIERS, too, in some way. We know for a fact the MOORES and MOYES were collateral form over 300 years and they are sitting in Pitt County, NC in the late 1700's, right by the DANIEL-LANIER bunch. This, tells me a lot abut this DANIEL family. However, we are missing one or two pieces of the puzzle and it is these missing pieces that do not allow us to connect these families, together. As an historian, I feel we all re-live the past, to some degree. I also feel that "acorns do not fall that far from the tree" and I can pretty easily separate what I "feel are family" from what others "say are family." In this, I have always felt that Gov. Bob or someone out of his DANIEL family were my DANIEL ancestor and have made no bones about it. In fact, the given names in his family are almost identical to those in my DANIEL family, a hundred years later and my DANIEL family beat the name, Robert, to death in every generation. I do not know why I think this but I do and not because he was famous or anything along those lines - I could care less about something as mundane as that. The primary reason is -- his portrait tells me that he looked like my bunch, he behaved like more than a few of my bunch <grin>, his family was of the same class as my bunch and he has many of the same Charleston links that flow right down into my bunch in Madison, Morgan County, GA -- a hundred and fifty years after his death. Not to forget the fondness I have for both Charleston and Savannah, nor the 10 weeks I spent on his little personal island playground, Parris Island, SC. As I have said, before, I think there are ironies in life and as I said, previously, we tend to re-live the past. Whatever, Robert DANIELL was not only a smooth operator who took advantage of not only his heritage but also of all of the opportunities he was offered during his life, even the forbidden fruit of an extra-marital affair. However, Robert DANIELL lived in a different time than any of us and his position, as Landgrave and other titles, tended to protect and deflect some of the criticism we would face, today, in a similar situation. My younger brother is a perfect copy of Gov. Bob - "slicker than a newborn baby's rear end," a professional success but lacking the personal ethics to match the rest of his abilities. I do not know what the answer will be for my search, but I agree with what you stated in your post, almost in its entirety, much to the chagrin of others, I'm sure <grin>....... John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier > > Probably nothing not already discussed, or of interest here... but > Elizabeth > LANIER is shown with her Thomas DANIEL in the family of Robert, and can > see > how the two Sarah DANIELs marrying WILLSON or WILSON could be > confusing.....same > Wilson book, pgs 8 and 9 ~ > > "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., > Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 > > > Robert DANIEL I > The English DANIELLs are of Norman origin, descending from the D'ANVERS or > DANYERs family, who held estates in Cheshire in the reign of Henry III and > bore > arms "Arg. a pale fusily sa." which appear to be identical with those > engraved > on the seal of Colonel Robert DANIELL, progenitor of the Barbados branch. > Similar arms, were, however, borne by other DANIELL lines in the Heralds' > Visitations, that of London [originally from Norfolk] in 1634 showing > Robert DANIELL > of London, merchant, with a son Robert then aged three years. > > According to Hathaway's North Carolina History and Genealogy Register, > [below] the first known ancestor was Roger DANIELL the elder, who came > over with his > kinsman Miles CAREY from Bristol, England, to Virginia before 1644/45 ~ > Married UNKNOWN and had: > > 1. Roger DANIELL the younger, who came over from Bristol to Virginia > with > Roger, his father and their kinsman Miles CAREY ~ Married and had: > > 1.a. Robert DANIELL, Governor > 1.b. John DANIELL of Barbados ~ Married Ann UNKNOWN and had: > > 1.b.1. John DANIELL, baptized at St. James, Barbados in 1678 > 1.b.2. Thomas DANIELL of Tyrrell County, North Carolina, baptized at > St. > James, Barbados ~ dc: 1750, Tyrell County ~ Married Elizabeth LANIER of > Tyrell > County, daughter of Thomas LANIER. > 1.b.3. Wilbert DANIELL, of Virginia, who spent only a short time in > Barbados. > > ~O~ > 2. Darby DANIELL, who was living in Virginia in 1693. [brother to Roger > @ > 1.] > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Colonel Robert DANIELL was, according to his age on the memorial tablet, > born > in 1646 [1. Ray claims that he was born in Virginia ~ see later] and > although he was obviously possessed of considerable natural ability and > talent, he is > believed to have had influential family connections from his earliest > days. > > He married (1) between 1675 and 1680, to Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, bc: 1654 ~ > d: > 16 OCT 1711, daughter of Colonel Edmund Chamberlayne of Maughersbury, > County > of Glouucester. The CHAMBERLAYNE family through their marital connections > with > the PYE family were prominent in Barbados trading circles, and Robert > DANIELL > took up this mode of life. His wife was an heiress and evidently refused > to > share the dangers and vicissitudes of colonial sea trading. Robert and > Dorothy had one child, Robert II, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709. There > is no > indication in the records that Dorothy accompanied her husband on any of > his trips > to Barbados, Virginia, or the Carolinas. > > The year and circumstances of his first journey from England to Barbados > are > not known, but it must have been about the time of the Restoration or soon > after, and as he was a staunch Royalist and Churchman, political factors > are > unlikely to have been involved, and he was probably at first a merchant or > planter > and perhaps owner or part-owner of a ship. Neither is it known how long > he > remained in Barbados, indeed it is probable that after his first arrival > he > made several voyages to and from England. Hotten records his migration > from > Barbados to Carolina, 04 APR 1679, in the ship "Mary" with Nicholas > LOCKWOOD, > Commander. He was accompanied by his servant Mary COOPER. [2. The > Original > Lists of Persons of Quality, 1600 ~ 1700, London, 1874, edited by John > Camden > HOTTEN] > > He received a succession of land grants, the first being dated a year > before > his arrival [3. Warrants for Lands in South Carolina, A. S. SALLEY, JR ~ > see > later] Although he was one of the largest landholders in South Carolina, > he > was not land-hungry. In fact, in several instances he sold lands in a > very > short time, probably in order to provide working capital for his trading > adventures. > > He was taking an important part in the administrative life of Carolina > within > a few months of his arrival, making an appraisement of Thomas NERSE's > property in 1680, and is himself referred to as a landowner in South > Carolina on 15 > DEC 16800, and again on 07 MAY and 10 MAY 1682, on all occasions with the > rank > of Captain. > > McCRADY records that "among the leaders who came into the Province of > Carolina were some of great ability. Governor MOORE and Major Robert > DANIELL though > not among the first settlers, had each been in the Province some years. > DANIELL from Barbados in 1679, and had already taken an active part in its > affairs." > > His military rank appears to have varied. > In MAY and AUG 1692 he is described as Major > Captain in a deed dated 1693 [S.C.H. & G.M., Vol XI, pg 128] > Major and Commander of the ship "Daniell of South Carolina" on 24 NOV 1693 > [Ibid, Vol VIII, pg 210] > Captain in a Will appointing him as Executor in 1695 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 83] > Major again on 12 SEP 1696 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 236] > Major on 10 MAR 1696/97 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 24] > Major on 10 JAN 1697 [S.C.H.S. Collections, Vol 1, pg 144] > > In communications from the Lords Proprietors to the Governor and Council > at > Charles Town in 1698 [Ibid, Vol I, pg 456] his rank is given as Major and > in > 1702 he is styled Colonel [Rivers' Sketch, pg 20] and again in 1710, 1712 > and > 1716. > > In 1686 [Va Mag, Vol V, pg 81 ante.] he took an important part in the > action > against Spanish forces which had destroyed Stuart Town on Port Royal > Island > and other settlements in Carolina. Much of Robert DANIELL's time in the > 16800's > appears to have been spent in sailing his ships between America, Jamaica > and > Barbados [McCALL, TIDWELL and Allied Families, 1931, McCALL] > > His earliest extant signature "Robert Daniel" appears on a bond between > John > COMMINGS and Edward MAYO, 14 FEB 1680. The original contract is now in > the > possession of E. Roy DANIELL and Elizabeth HARLESTON DANIELL. > > The Will of Henry SYMMONDS of Charles Town, Vintner, proved before > Governor > BLAKE, 13 MAR 1695, appoints his friend Captain Robert DANIELL to be > executor > and trustee for testator's wife, Frances. The Will of Richard BUTLER, > made 12 > SEP 1696, appoints Major Robert DANIELL guardian to his wife and son. > > His career seems to have been little affected by his active opposition, > beginning in 1680, to Landgrave John COLLETON, even after the latter > became > Governor. He was a loyal adherent of Seth SOTHEL throughout that stormy > administration. In 1692 he was therefore excepted (with James MOORE) by > the Lords > Proprietors from the general pardon extended by them to all who had been > concerned in > Governor COLLETON's expulsion. Nevertheless, this did DANIELL little > harm, > and from then till the end of his life, his record was one of proomotion > and > achievement. In MAY 1692 as Major Robert DANIELL with Charles BURNHAM, he > was > entered as security for Robert GOSSE, who arrived in Carolina in the ship > "Loyal Jamaica" [Grant Book, Secretary of State's Office, 1672/94, pg 78] > > In 1697 he was appointed Deputy to the Earl of Craven ~ Commissions and > Instructions from the Lords Proprietors of Carolina to Public Officials of > South > Carolina, 1685~1715, pg 108. The Commission is as follows: > > William Lord CRAVEN one of ye true & absolute Lords & Proprietrs of ye > Province of Carolina ~ to Robert DANIELL, Esq. Whereas it is Appointed by > the Lords > Proprietrs of Carolina in their ffundamentall Constitutions and Rules of > Governmt that each of ye Lords Proprietrs shall Name a Deputy to be his > Representative in ye generall Assembly and Councell of Carolina. I out of > ye Confidence > I have in ye Wisdome, Prudence & Loyalty of you ye said Robert DANIELL Do > Constitute & Appoint you ye sd. Robert DANIELL to be my Deputy in that > Part of > our Province of Carolina wch llLyes South and West of Cape ffear, wth. > full > Power and Authority to Act and Exercise all such Powers & Things as to a > Proprietrs Depty do's Belong Given under my Hand and Seal the fourteenth > day of January > Anno Dom: 1697/8. CRAVEN (Seal) > > Robert DANIELL served with great distinction in the ill-fated expedition > led > by Governor MOORE against St. Augustine in Florida in 1702 [The History of > South Carolina under the Proprietary Government, 1670 ~ 1719, by Edward > McCRADY, > 1897, pg 381 et seq] > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Ray's Index and Digest to Hathaway's N.C. History and Gen. Register, > 19945, > pg 38: > The popular conception of Governor DANIEL's genealogical history is that > he > was born in England, whereas, the weight of the suggestive, if not > positive, > evidence is that he was born in York or Warwick County, Virginia. No one > has > been able to determine with certainty the exact year in which Miles CARY, > the > emigrant arrived in Virginia, but it was prior to 1644/45 at least. He > was from > Bristol, England, and brought over with him his "known kinsman" Roger > DANIEL > and his son Roger DANIEL, JR. The latter was the father of Governor > Robert > DANIEL, who with his two brothers, John and Wilbert, fled to the Barbadoes > to > escape the wrath of BERKLEY after the rebellion stirred up by Nathaniel > BACON. > > Wilbert DANIEL remained in the Island only a few months, after which he > returned to Virginia. Prior to his going there on NOV 13, 1678, he had > been one of > the subscribing witnesses to the Will of Henry ISHAM at Varina, in Henrico > County, whose wife was the widow of ROYAL, and whose son Henry ROYAL in > 1693 > witnessed with Darby DANIEL (uncle of Governor Robert) the Will of his > stepson, > Henry COPELAND in Elizabeth City. > > John DANIEL, the other brother, remained in the Barbadoes for some time > and > the St James Parish Records there show the birth of two sons, John [JR] in > 1678 > and Thomas in 1679. > > Robert DANIEL had married Dorothy CHAMBERLAINE, by whom he had one son, > Robert, and John DANIEL, his brother, married [in Barbadoes~?] to Ann > UNKNOWN. > Thomas DANIEL, b: 1679, married Elizabeth LANIER, daughter of Thomas > Lanier, who > was living for a time in the Island, and both Thomas DANIEL and Thomas > LANIER > died in Tyrrell County, NC about 1750, as disclosed by these Hathaway > records. > > Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN, the first wife of Robert DANIEL, had a sister who > appears to have been the wife of John LEAR, Clerk of Nansemond County, > Virginia, > hence Robert DANIEL and the old Clerk were brothers-in-law. Dorothy also > had a > nephew Marmaduke CHAMBERLAINE, for whom Governor DANIEL named his second > grandson. > > North Carolina History & Gen. Register, Vol 1, pg 199, refers to Thomas > DANIEL, John DANIEL and Robert DANIEL. > [Will of Milles CARY of Warwick County, Virginia, dtd 09 JUN 1667, pr. 21 > JUN > 1667, Warwick County, left his grey mare and that parcel or tract of land > called "Gaole" with all the rents and profits, to Roger DANIELL ~ The > Virginia > CARYs, Harrison, 1919, pgs 164~167]. > > Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN was not the first Chamberlaine to marry a DANIELL. > "A" > Robert DANIELL married (2) to Margaret CHAMBERLAIN who died at Edmonton, > Middlesex, 30 JUL 1663. > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >

As usual your material is very helpful and I will go over it with great interest. TTYL Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Thomas Daniel/Elizabeth Lanier In a message dated 4/10/2004 9:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com writes: > 6. Sarah, b:1730, Daughter of Thomas DANIEL and Elizabeth LANIER ~ > M:Algermon Wilson, M2:John Wilson. No idea about this Algernon Wilson. John (Wilson) > spelled his name Willson. > > Payne, This might clear it up.... this book is well documented with sources and etc. "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 ALGERNON WILSON, ESQ of St. Paul's Parish, Colleton County, South Carolina ~ d: 31 MAR 1774 ~ He owned numerous slaves, many plantations and several houses in town ~ Married 06 FEB 1746, to SARAH PROCTOR DANIELL of Berkeley County South Carolina, b: 17 JAN 1727/28 ~ db: AUG 1801 ~ Daughter of Marmaduke DANIEL, SR, bc 1703 ~ dc: 1741, and Susan [probably PROCTOR], bc: 1724. And, great-granddaughter of the Honorable Robert DANIELL, Governor of South Carolina. NOTE: The only sibling of Sarah Proctor DANIELL WILSON was Marmaduke DANIEL, JR, b: 13 DEC 1725 ~ d: after 1786 [There are deeds in Chatham County, North Carolina signed by Marmaduke in 1782 and 1786.] Marmaduke DANIEL, SR, the younger son of Robert DANIEL, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709 and Sarah UNKNOWN, d: 31 JUL 1721 ~ her sister was Mrs. Anne SHUDLEY or Chudleigh, of England. Marmaduke DANIELL, SR's only sibling was Robert DANIELL, [JR] mentioned in their mother Sarah DANIELL's Will, dated 28 JUL 1721 ~ proved 08 FEB 1721/22. Witnesses: William RHETT, JR and son Robert DANIELL. [Will Book 1721/22, Vol I, pg 21] Children of ALGERNON WILSON and SARAH PROCTOR DANIELL: 1. Daniel WILSON, will dated 28 JUL 1794 ~ Married Mary UNKNOWN, living in 1794 2. John WILSON ~ d: 1798 ~ Married (1) 14 DEC 1769, to Mary RIVERS, {1} child: Elizabeth Mary WILSON, married James STANYARNE, uncle of John WILSON's second spouse ~ John WILSON Married secondly, circa 1790, to Elizabeth STANYARNE, db: 21 FEB 1805 ~ They had three children: {2} William Stanyarne WILSON, b: 1797 ~ d: 10 MAY 1834, married Anna Maria Eliza BLACKBURN, b: 26 OCT 1797 ~ d: 31 MAY 1845; {3} Sarah Fassoux WILSON, never married; {4} John H. WILSON, married Frances FREER. [There's much more on this couple, if interested.] 3. Jehu WILSON, Will dated 05 JUN 1795 ~ proved 11 NOV 1826, Charleston. Appointed wife executrix and brothers Thomas and Algernon, JR executors, left estate between his wife and children, daughter Elizabeth Anne also to have what was given to her mother; Married Sarah BLAKEWAY [Will dated 08 FEB 1791, proved 10 AUG 1801] Daughter of Dr. Lionel CHALMERS and his first wife Martha LOGAN, who was a granddaughter of Lt. General the Honorable Robert DANIELL. [Jehu's only other child was Eliza WILSON, both she and her sister were unmarried in 1795] 4. SARAH WILSON, d: 1776 ~ Married 29/30 JAN 1772, to Dr. Peter FASSOUX, b: 1745, of Charleston ~ Child: Frances FASSOUX, d: 1797, unmarried. 5. Algernon WILSON, JR 6. Susanna WILSON, d: unmarried after 1800 7. Joseph Nicholas WILSON of St. Paul's Parish, Colleton County, Will dated 04 FEB 1791 ~ proved in 1794, Charleston. Joseph mentioned that he and his brother Thomas were planning to go to sea on a trading expedition to the West Indies and since storms are treacherous he may not survive, and if his brother Thomas shall lose his life as well as I, then my brother Algernon will be executor. 8. Thomas WILSON, ~ Living in 1791, when he proposed voyaging to the West Indies with his brother Joseph WILSON. 9. Mary WILSON ~ Married Thomas DRAYTON, and had {1} William Henry DRAYTON, and {2} Sarah Daniell DRAYTON, who married Thomas Smith GRIMKE and had a son, John Drayton GRIMKE, who changed his name to DRAYTON in order to inherit the famous Magnolia Gardens near Charleston. Little is definitely known of ALGERNON WILSON's family and ancestry in England beyond the fact that he was in some way related at least once and possibly by two alliances to Thomas WILSON, Bishop of Sodor and Man, who used the arms of Wilson of Waldershaigh, Yorkshire. A portrait of [Sarah Proctor DANIELL] Mrs. Algernon WILSON was painted by Jeriah THEUS. One of her granddaughters married John BOYLE and it is in this branch of the family that the portrait has remained. There is no mention that this Sarah Proctor DANIELL WILSON ever married again... after nine children. `````````````````````````````````````````````````````` A copy of a deed dated 15 OCT 1711 [made by the WPA] from Book Miscellaneous 1714~1717, pg 44, in the Probate Court in Charleston: "This is to certify that I, Dorothy [Chamberlayne] DANIELL, having good right and title in myself by virtue of a deed of gift made me by voluntary act and deed of my well-beloved husband, Colonel Robert DANIELL, on 29 JUN 1710... to the use of my grandson Marmaduke DANIELL, the now youngest son of my son Robert DANIELL and my daughter Sarah DANIELL, his wife, etc." and signed by Dorothy D. DANIELL ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change the subject of a reply message.

I thought you were suggesting that Aaron was born someplace else, was He? As to the notes, the originals back at St. David's Church, I haven't an opinion yet! Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA Payne, Why did you mention the Lenoir County, NC POB for Aaron? I do not think your notes are cobbled up but these notes that I have for Aaron do not compare with the originals back at St. David's Church, although some of the same names are on both of these sources. This tells me that someone has added Aaron's name to this list of names at St. David's Church. Or, Virginia PROCTOR left his name off this list for some unknown reason. I do not know which is correct but that is what she has on the Marlboro County, SC website. This is why the Vestry Records of St. David's Church need to be looked at and compared against these notes to see where they differ. I also found some very interesting deeds on this Marlboro County, SC website, especially an 1816 deed for a John DERDEN (below). As I have told you several times, my grandmother, ended up with Land Lot 74 in Land District 19 in Morgan County, GA, formerly part of Baldwin County. This was land owned by John DURDEN, who went bankrupt in 1873 and his land was sold at the courthouse square in Madison and guess what he did -- he bought it all back, at least LL 74, LD 19. However, guess who ended up with it and there is no grantee-grantor record of how she got it? My grandmother, Alice Daniel RICHTER. Neither Marshall WILLIAMS, archivist of Morgan County, nor I have ever been able to figure this one out. My opinion is that John DURDEN was some kind of family and Alice took her $700 inheritance from her father, Robert W. DANIEL, which she had gotten a few years before (1867) her marriage to John RICHTER (1872), and bailed out John DURDEN because the purchase price was $709.25, almost exactly what she had gotten from her father's estate. Then, after his death, she inherited the property which is why there is not a Grantor-Grantee record of this transaction. Note: There are also some very familiar names in this 1816 SC deed. Maybe someone will see somthing that I do not. <<< John DERDEN to James FIELDS, 1816 Contributed by Brenda Wagner John Derden of the District of Chesterfield, for $5000, to James Fields of the District of Marlboro, 200 acres, a tract granted by Arthur Dobbs to Robert Palmer, 10 Oct 1755, and conveyed by Wm. Palmer, attorny, for Robert Palmer, by lease and release 14 & 15 Dec 1773, to John May Junr, and by John May Junr. to Wm. Blakeny, 5 March 1791, and from Wm. Blakeny to John Derden, 12 Aug 1802, on both sides Thomson's Creek, 100 acres, being half of a survey of 200 acres granted to Hartwell Weaver, 5 Dec 1791., also one other parcel, it being a part of 800 acres granted to Abner Lowry, 10 March 1791, 125 acres, at the first fork of Macks branch, above the school house fork, adj. John P. Rushing; another tract granted to Benjn. Thermon, 75 acres, being the lands whereon I now live at the cross roads or otherwise cauled Mount Croghan; also several other pieces or parcels of land containing seven hundred and forty hacres, originall granted to Gustavas Hendrick, Asey Hendrick & Samuel Alsobrooks, and conveyed by sd. Gustavas Hendrick to John Derden, by deed 22 May 1804, agreeable to a resurvay with the exception of 116 acres previously sold to James Derden, and 62 to Obediah Meadows; also one other tract on the North side of Thomsons Creek originally granted to David Hendrick, 3 March 1794.18 July 1816. >>> John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > Thanks for the record. I continue to be interested in the dates of birth > you > have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? I will look at > my > notes about Aaron but I don't think it's my notes you refer to as "cobbled > up", so are those notes from a source not mentioned here.? > > " It hurts when I swing, and it hurts when I don't." Arnold Palmer, 74 > years > of age. > > Payne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > >> Payne, >> >> Someone has really cobbled up these notes about Aaron DANIEL. I went to > the >> "hoss's mouth" and looked them up, myself, and he did not join a St. > David's >> Scottish Presbyterian Church, he seems to have joined the St. David's >> Church, a church of the Church of England. Interesting. >> >> What is even more interesting is Aaron DANIEL was not listed in any of >> the >> records these sources have listed for him, although the other names, like >> Samuel WISE,. Jesse COUNCIL, and others, are. The vestry notes are at >> the >> bottom of this page. >> >> That said, there should be some note of Aaron and Betsy in the vestry >> minutes of this church which are in the SC Archives and which have also > been >> published by Brent HOLCOLMB. >> >> This is just another example of where folks have cobbled up, commingled > and, >> it appears, out fabricated some of the stuff you see about Aaron and > Betsy. >> This is why I have always said, there are those who seem more than >> willing >> to fabricate their families genealogy to suit their own needs but it is >> rather difficult to do so over several other families, as well as when > faced >> with irrefutable historical documents. >> >> This information is from the Marlboro County, SC website. : >> >> <<< >> Please note that because the Vestry of St. David's also served the > community >> as a political body (voting, collecting taxes, etc.), early records will >> contain the names of members of all religious denominations. >> >> Minutes of the Vestry >> April 1768 >> The following gentlemen were named Commissioners for the Parish of St. >> David's: >> >> Claudius Pegues Charles Bedingfield >> Philip Pledger James James >> Alexander Mackintosh Robert Weaver >> George Hicks James Thomson >> Thomas Ellerbee Thomas Crawford >> Robert Alison Thomas Porte >> Thomas Lide Benjamin Rogers >> >> August 1st 1768 >> The Commissioners met at the House of Mr. Charles Bedingfield. >> Absent were Thomas Ellerbee, Robert Weaver, James Thomson, Thomas >> Crawford >> and Thomas Porte. >> >> Declining to act as Commissioners were Alexander Mackintosh, James James >> and Robert Alison. >> >> Elections were held. >> Elected as Vestry Men: >> Claudius Pegues, Philip Pledger, William Godfrey, Charles Bedingfield, >> Thomas Lide, Thomas Ellerbee, Thomas Bingham >> >> Elected as Church Wardens: >> Alexander Gordon and Benjamin Rogers. >> >> Durham Hitts was appointed Clerk of the Vestry. >> >> Electors were: >> William Hardwick >> Duke Glen >> John Mackintosh >> John Jenkins >> Edward Ellerbee >> John Husbands >> Thomas Boatright, Senr. >> Jesse Counsell >> John Pledger >> Robert Clary >> Robert Anderson >> Benjamin Jackson >> James Knight >> Samuel Wise >> James Thursby >> Thomas Williams >> Thomas Wade >> Leonard Dozier >> <<< >> >> John R. Clarke >> Thomasville, GA >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:48 AM >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> >I take it John that your are stating your opinions and suspicions, and >> >by >> > the way, what's wrong with Radford, Lenoir, NC, being the birth place >> > of >> > Aaron Daniel? What list of children do you support for Ensign Aaron and >> > Elizabeth Whitfield Daniel? According to Ingersol, page 414, Aaron was >> > born >> > in 1739 and died in 1790 in Cheraw District, SC. I am not a fan of >> > Ingersol >> > so your 1733 may be closer? I would also be interested in the dates of >> > birth >> > you have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? >> > >> > From lovely New Tampa, Florida. Payne >> > >> > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and >> > statistics." >> > -- Benjamin Disraeli >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:09 AM >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> > >> > >> >> Judy, >> >> That is correct but Duplin and Sampson County, NC were not what I >> > would >> >> consider to be "normal stomping grounds" for the Lanier-Daniels. >> >> Number one, this Moses has to be at least 16 to be witness of a > deed >> > and >> >> that puts his DOB as 1749, probably closer to 1744, making him at >> >> least >> >> of >> >> majority. This puts him as a contemporary of Aaron and not his son. >> > There >> >> is no Moses listed in the will of Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL, is > there? >> >> We also have reports there was an Abraham DANIEL born prior to 1750 >> > floating >> >> around this bunch and that, too, puts him as a contemporary of Aaron > and >> >> also not his son. >> >> You see we really do not know when Aaron was born, do we? Some >> >> say >> > 1739 >> >> but that is incorrect. He had to be born by 1733 not to be listed as >> >> a >> >> minor in his father's 1749 will nor was he listed as a minor in his >> > mother's >> >> 1752 will, was he? That means that he was born at least by 1733, >> >> probably >> >> before. >> >> I also always go with the general rule of Southern families, as > these >> >> DANIELS were, that parents tend to name their children after a >> >> combination >> >> of the given names of their father's and mother's families, with a few >> > vogue >> >> names thrown in from time to time. I also go with the general rule > that >> >> Yankee families went more towards Bible oriented given names, due to >> >> their >> >> Puritan influence, than did most Southern folks. >> >> Southerners, for the most part, have always gone with tradition, > even >> >> then. This does not mean there was not an occasional family where >> > religion >> >> dominated every part of their lives and they would name their children >> > after >> >> biblical characters because there were these occasional families. >> > However, >> >> for the most part Southern families were real big in naming their >> >> children >> >> according to tradition and that tradition indicates they will use > family >> >> names for their chillen. >> >> There were several Biblical names used in the WHITFIELDS that we > know >> >> of, Matthew and Luke, but their other given names are generally family >> >> names. When you go back to the BRYANS, they re-use family names, like >> >> water. There are hundreds of Rachels, Penelopes, Williams and Johns. >> > Even >> >> the WARRENS tended to re-use family names, as best I can tell. >> >> So, when I look at what I would think would be the given names for >> > Capt. >> >> Aaron and Betsy Whitfield DANIEL's kids, I would look at some type of >> >> combination of these names as possible given names for their children. >> > Yet, >> >> we do not see these names used in this family to any degree. That > makes >> > me >> >> really wonder about this DANIEL family, assuming we believe the claims > of >> >> some of their descendants concerning the identity of their ancestors. >> >> All of these Southern families of this era named their children in > an >> >> almost identical fashion. I cannot tell you how many Williams and > Johns >> >> there are in my families of this period and these were families that > not >> >> only lived right around these DANIELS but also had collateral links to >> > them. >> >> Without a will for either Aaron or Betsy, where their children are >> >> actually named, or some type or other contemporary document outlining >> >> this >> >> family to some degree, then what we see in POWG is highly suspect. >> >> Our >> >> major problem, today, is not in actually researching these various > lines >> > but >> >> in straightening out the mess of early family researchers who did not >> >> have >> >> access to the documents we have available to us, today. >> >> What these early researchers did was take "family myth" and force > the >> >> pieces of the known puzzle of the time into the holes on the board, >> > whether >> >> they actually fit or not. This is why you see both 10 and 60 year >> >> old >> >> females giving birth to children. The problem is -- we now know they >> >> skipped a generation or two in between. >> >> Yet, there are those who will fight to keep their established >> > genealogy, >> >> even with faced with the impossibility of such an assignment, because >> >> a >> >> change in that assignment would effect their membership in various >> >> organizations. This is also why we have such a hodge-podge of DNA >> > results >> >> and why some of the stuff we see does not match what we would think >> > because >> >> the person who submitted the DNA was really not a descendant of the >> >> person >> >> they think they descend from. >> >> I was talking with a MAY cousin who is trying to track his MAY >> > ancestry. >> >> He got a 24/25 marker match with some fellow in TN but I told him a > 24/25 >> >> marker test only indicates they had a common ancestor within the past >> >> 8 >> >> generations. I told him as close as he should have been to this > person, >> > he >> >> should have had a 25/25 marker match because, at the most, both of >> >> them >> > were >> >> only 5 generations removed from their "most recent common ancestor" >> > (MCRA). >> >> I would almost guarantee you that my DNA would give a perfect >> >> 25/25 >> >> match with someone from my RICHTER family in Germany if we were > descended >> >> from the same common Prussian ancestor, which is only five generations >> >> removed for me. As for Joe's DNA test, he is only 4 generations > removed >> >> from Charles MAY born 1778 in Edgefield County, SC which means their > MRCA >> > is >> >> located at least three generation beyond that time frame - a GGF of >> > Charles >> >> MAY. This really pushes them back to some time in the 1600's and >> >> maybe >> > even >> >> back to the old country, where ever that was. >> >> Take MS Lucy's recent DNA test. She, also, got a 24/25 marker > match >> > but >> >> this only indicates this person shared a MCRA at their 5th to 6th GGF >> > level. >> >> Since MS Lucy is only four generations removed from William DANIEL >> >> born >> > 1760 >> >> this means their MCRA was William DANIEL's GGF. That, was also a long >> > time >> >> ago. >> >> With a 25 marker test you should get a perfect match (25/25) with > any >> >> person with whom you share a MCRA within the past seven generations. > In >> >> simple terms, if you and they share, at least, a 5th GGF, you should > get >> >> a >> >> perfect match. If you share a MCRA beyond that, the match will > diminish, >> >> statistically. For most of us, that puts a perfect match well into >> >> the >> >> 1600's and I do not think we are searching for information much beyond >> > that, >> >> at least in this country. >> >> >> >> John R. Clarke >> >> Thomasville, GA >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:01 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >> >> GA >> >> >> >> >> >> > Duplin/Sampson, NC Deed Records.....Feb 1765, pg, 186 & 187 >> >> > Aaron DANIEL & wife, Elizabeth to George FRAZIER, both of >> >> > Duplin County, 100ac.for 30 pds. ,near Goshen Swamp, adjecent >> >> > Mathew WHITFIELD. >> >> > Witness: Moses DANIEL, Mathew WHITFIELD, James OUTLAW. >> >> > Signed: Aaron DANIEL, Elizabeth DANIEL >> >> > >> >> > Judy Garner, >> >> > Sebring,FL >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:51 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, > GA >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Is this Abraham Daniel(1763-1832) mentioned as son-in-law to James >> >> >> Cooper? >> >> >> Abraham married Jane Moore, ca 1796? Their first child was born >> >> >> 1797. >> >> >> He >> >> >> was 33, when he married Jane Moore, so could have been married >> >> >> before.......to the daughter of James Cooper. Abraham is the son > of >> >> > Aaron >> >> >> Daniel RS (1735-1790) and Elizabeth Whitfield(1740-1804). >> >> >> >> >> >> Judy Garner >> >> >> Sebring,FL >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:40 AM >> >> >> Subject: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Good Morning, >> >> >> > I thought this was a very interesting will since a James COOPER >> >> > supposedly >> >> >> > married Elizabeth DANIEL, d/o Rev. Thomas DANIEL and Sarah BURNEY > of >> >> >> Greene >> >> >> > County, GA. If so, what was an Abraham DANIEL doing on this will > as >> > a >> >> >> > son-in-law? We also know COOPER did not die in Greene County, GA > in >> >> > 1807, >> >> >> > as some suggest, but Baldwin County, GA in 1818 or so.... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Also, notice that BARNES listed in this will. That tends to tell > me >> >> >> either >> >> >> > that this DANIEL was from Edgecombe or Northampton County, NC. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > However, several interesting points in all of this -- Abraham was > an >> >> >> > IOW >> >> >> > DANIEL name, BARNES is an IOW DANIEL collateral and this DANIEL >> >> >> > bunch >> >> > sure >> >> >> > looks like an IOW DANIEL family to me, but then, again..... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > <<< >> >> >> > Will Book A, Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> > >> >> >> > COOPER, JAMES 1/21/1812 - 3/2/1818 >> >> >> > Wife: not named >> >> >> > Children: Davis Cooper, Thomas Cooper, John Cooper, Milbry > McGintry, >> >> > Nancy >> >> >> > Barnes >> >> >> > Others mentioned: Son-in-law - Abraham Daniel; Nathaniel C. > Waller, >> >> > James >> >> >> > Rice, John Gill >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > John R. Clarke >> >> >> > Thomasville, GA >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> >> > IF YOU MISS ANY MESSAGE: You can easily search the DANIEL List >> > Archives >> >> >> at: >> >> >> > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=DANIEL >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> >> DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting > of >> >> > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral >> > families >> >> > or >> >> > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- >> >> > are >> > not >> >> > allowed on this list. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you > change >> >> > the subject of a reply message. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > suggestion >> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >> > to >> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > suggestion >> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >> > to >> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. >> > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change the subject of a reply message.

Good Morning, I can buy all of that but convincing others of that possibility is the problem. Some have characterized the LANIERS as nothing but a bunch of meat cutters from Barbados and Robert DANIELL's family as being nothing but a family of poor Welsh miners, or something along those lines. Maybe I have exaggerated a little bit, but you get the idea. <grin> As for Robert DANIELL, he seems more like a machinist, to me -- tooling it around everywhere. <grin> It is surprising to me that Charleston society was a kind to him as it seems to have been. I have understood the WAINWRIGHTS were of Bermuda but I will bet they were of a similar class to Robert because men have always had affairs but they usually did not marry persons outside of their class, even then. People, today, tend to forget that England was a very class conscious society in that time frame and one did not start at the bottom rung of the ladder and go all the way to the top, no matter who they were or even as a result of their accomplishments.. It was almost like the caste system used in India, until recent times where people were locked into the class of their birth. If you look over the list of names in the Lords Proprietors, then you will see nothing but the cream of English society because as we all know, society tends to dictate that the rich get the gravy and the poor get the shaft. That, was especially true back then. To think that Robert DANIEL emerged from some poor Welsh mining clan to become a Landgrave of the Carolinas is nothing but hogwash. To think he married into such an illustrious family, as the CHAMBERLAINS, from such humble Welsh beginnings is also hogwash. When you look at marriages in the 17th century, they were very class conscious. Granted, Robert DANIELL may not have been from the very top echelons of English society but he was far from the bottom rung of the ladder and his family must have been well connected, which in those days was usually based on money and property. What I am surprised is how fast some of his descendants seem to have deteriorated, class wise. Are you aware that one's religious preference is a key denominator of class? In the protestant faiths, you have the Episcopal Church at the top, followed closely by the Methodist and Presbyterian churches. In the days after the Revolutionary War, one church in particular was very paternalistic, the Baptists. How do you think this set with these patriots who just fought a war to keep from being told what to do by their English lords? Not very well, in my opinion. This same type of philosophy was incorporated into the Quaker faith which is why this religion descended after the RW. Paternalistic based religions only tend to flourish among the uneducated classes, not the educated classes, even today. Educated people just do not like to be told by their religions elders, what to do, when to do it and how it must be done. This is also probably why one sees so many agnostics and even atheists in society, today - current religions philosophies are a little too intrusive for them. This is why the Baptist religion of the DANIELLS of Oconee County, GA surprises me. Maybe William DANIELL's parents did not raise him properly or maybe his second wife was of a different class and she was in charge of their kids upbringing, that I do not know. Maybe even the uncertainty of life in that period tended to force people to accept a religion that dominated their personal lives, from start to finish. That, I do not know What I do know is -- I would not have tolerated that kind of religious dominance, even then. . The Baptist faith has changed somewhat over the course of the past 200 years and is a little less intrusive than it used to be, but it is still much more intrusive than other protestant religions. People also tended to join their community church and the community church in their area of GA may have been Baptist and once they became locked into a specific church, they were also locked into that religion. That, I also do not know. What I do know is that none of my family were of the Baptist faith which tells me a lot about them. My wife once told me a rather simple definition of class. "High class people talk about ideas, middle class people talk about money and low rents talk about others." I will end this on that tid-bit of Connecticut wisdom..... <grin> John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Elizabeth Lanier > > Probably nothing not already discussed, or of interest here... but > Elizabeth > LANIER is shown with her Thomas DANIEL in the family of Robert, and can > see > how the two Sarah DANIELs marrying WILLSON or WILSON could be > confusing.....same > Wilson book, pgs 8 and 9 ~ > > "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., > Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 > > > Robert DANIEL I > The English DANIELLs are of Norman origin, descending from the D'ANVERS or > DANYERs family, who held estates in Cheshire in the reign of Henry III and > bore > arms "Arg. a pale fusily sa." which appear to be identical with those > engraved > on the seal of Colonel Robert DANIELL, progenitor of the Barbados branch. > Similar arms, were, however, borne by other DANIELL lines in the Heralds' > Visitations, that of London [originally from Norfolk] in 1634 showing > Robert DANIELL > of London, merchant, with a son Robert then aged three years. > > According to Hathaway's North Carolina History and Genealogy Register, > [below] the first known ancestor was Roger DANIELL the elder, who came > over with his > kinsman Miles CAREY from Bristol, England, to Virginia before 1644/45 ~ > Married UNKNOWN and had: > > 1. Roger DANIELL the younger, who came over from Bristol to Virginia > with > Roger, his father and their kinsman Miles CAREY ~ Married and had: > > 1.a. Robert DANIELL, Governor > 1.b. John DANIELL of Barbados ~ Married Ann UNKNOWN and had: > > 1.b.1. John DANIELL, baptized at St. James, Barbados in 1678 > 1.b.2. Thomas DANIELL of Tyrrell County, North Carolina, baptized at > St. > James, Barbados ~ dc: 1750, Tyrell County ~ Married Elizabeth LANIER of > Tyrell > County, daughter of Thomas LANIER. > 1.b.3. Wilbert DANIELL, of Virginia, who spent only a short time in > Barbados. > > ~O~ > 2. Darby DANIELL, who was living in Virginia in 1693. [brother to Roger > @ > 1.] > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Colonel Robert DANIELL was, according to his age on the memorial tablet, > born > in 1646 [1. Ray claims that he was born in Virginia ~ see later] and > although he was obviously possessed of considerable natural ability and > talent, he is > believed to have had influential family connections from his earliest > days. > > He married (1) between 1675 and 1680, to Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, bc: 1654 ~ > d: > 16 OCT 1711, daughter of Colonel Edmund Chamberlayne of Maughersbury, > County > of Glouucester. The CHAMBERLAYNE family through their marital connections > with > the PYE family were prominent in Barbados trading circles, and Robert > DANIELL > took up this mode of life. His wife was an heiress and evidently refused > to > share the dangers and vicissitudes of colonial sea trading. Robert and > Dorothy had one child, Robert II, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709. There > is no > indication in the records that Dorothy accompanied her husband on any of > his trips > to Barbados, Virginia, or the Carolinas. > > The year and circumstances of his first journey from England to Barbados > are > not known, but it must have been about the time of the Restoration or soon > after, and as he was a staunch Royalist and Churchman, political factors > are > unlikely to have been involved, and he was probably at first a merchant or > planter > and perhaps owner or part-owner of a ship. Neither is it known how long > he > remained in Barbados, indeed it is probable that after his first arrival > he > made several voyages to and from England. Hotten records his migration > from > Barbados to Carolina, 04 APR 1679, in the ship "Mary" with Nicholas > LOCKWOOD, > Commander. He was accompanied by his servant Mary COOPER. [2. The > Original > Lists of Persons of Quality, 1600 ~ 1700, London, 1874, edited by John > Camden > HOTTEN] > > He received a succession of land grants, the first being dated a year > before > his arrival [3. Warrants for Lands in South Carolina, A. S. SALLEY, JR ~ > see > later] Although he was one of the largest landholders in South Carolina, > he > was not land-hungry. In fact, in several instances he sold lands in a > very > short time, probably in order to provide working capital for his trading > adventures. > > He was taking an important part in the administrative life of Carolina > within > a few months of his arrival, making an appraisement of Thomas NERSE's > property in 1680, and is himself referred to as a landowner in South > Carolina on 15 > DEC 16800, and again on 07 MAY and 10 MAY 1682, on all occasions with the > rank > of Captain. > > McCRADY records that "among the leaders who came into the Province of > Carolina were some of great ability. Governor MOORE and Major Robert > DANIELL though > not among the first settlers, had each been in the Province some years. > DANIELL from Barbados in 1679, and had already taken an active part in its > affairs." > > His military rank appears to have varied. > In MAY and AUG 1692 he is described as Major > Captain in a deed dated 1693 [S.C.H. & G.M., Vol XI, pg 128] > Major and Commander of the ship "Daniell of South Carolina" on 24 NOV 1693 > [Ibid, Vol VIII, pg 210] > Captain in a Will appointing him as Executor in 1695 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 83] > Major again on 12 SEP 1696 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 236] > Major on 10 MAR 1696/97 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 24] > Major on 10 JAN 1697 [S.C.H.S. Collections, Vol 1, pg 144] > > In communications from the Lords Proprietors to the Governor and Council > at > Charles Town in 1698 [Ibid, Vol I, pg 456] his rank is given as Major and > in > 1702 he is styled Colonel [Rivers' Sketch, pg 20] and again in 1710, 1712 > and > 1716. > > In 1686 [Va Mag, Vol V, pg 81 ante.] he took an important part in the > action > against Spanish forces which had destroyed Stuart Town on Port Royal > Island > and other settlements in Carolina. Much of Robert DANIELL's time in the > 16800's > appears to have been spent in sailing his ships between America, Jamaica > and > Barbados [McCALL, TIDWELL and Allied Families, 1931, McCALL] > > His earliest extant signature "Robert Daniel" appears on a bond between > John > COMMINGS and Edward MAYO, 14 FEB 1680. The original contract is now in > the > possession of E. Roy DANIELL and Elizabeth HARLESTON DANIELL. > > The Will of Henry SYMMONDS of Charles Town, Vintner, proved before > Governor > BLAKE, 13 MAR 1695, appoints his friend Captain Robert DANIELL to be > executor > and trustee for testator's wife, Frances. The Will of Richard BUTLER, > made 12 > SEP 1696, appoints Major Robert DANIELL guardian to his wife and son. > > His career seems to have been little affected by his active opposition, > beginning in 1680, to Landgrave John COLLETON, even after the latter > became > Governor. He was a loyal adherent of Seth SOTHEL throughout that stormy > administration. In 1692 he was therefore excepted (with James MOORE) by > the Lords > Proprietors from the general pardon extended by them to all who had been > concerned in > Governor COLLETON's expulsion. Nevertheless, this did DANIELL little > harm, > and from then till the end of his life, his record was one of proomotion > and > achievement. In MAY 1692 as Major Robert DANIELL with Charles BURNHAM, he > was > entered as security for Robert GOSSE, who arrived in Carolina in the ship > "Loyal Jamaica" [Grant Book, Secretary of State's Office, 1672/94, pg 78] > > In 1697 he was appointed Deputy to the Earl of Craven ~ Commissions and > Instructions from the Lords Proprietors of Carolina to Public Officials of > South > Carolina, 1685~1715, pg 108. The Commission is as follows: > > William Lord CRAVEN one of ye true & absolute Lords & Proprietrs of ye > Province of Carolina ~ to Robert DANIELL, Esq. Whereas it is Appointed by > the Lords > Proprietrs of Carolina in their ffundamentall Constitutions and Rules of > Governmt that each of ye Lords Proprietrs shall Name a Deputy to be his > Representative in ye generall Assembly and Councell of Carolina. I out of > ye Confidence > I have in ye Wisdome, Prudence & Loyalty of you ye said Robert DANIELL Do > Constitute & Appoint you ye sd. Robert DANIELL to be my Deputy in that > Part of > our Province of Carolina wch llLyes South and West of Cape ffear, wth. > full > Power and Authority to Act and Exercise all such Powers & Things as to a > Proprietrs Depty do's Belong Given under my Hand and Seal the fourteenth > day of January > Anno Dom: 1697/8. CRAVEN (Seal) > > Robert DANIELL served with great distinction in the ill-fated expedition > led > by Governor MOORE against St. Augustine in Florida in 1702 [The History of > South Carolina under the Proprietary Government, 1670 ~ 1719, by Edward > McCRADY, > 1897, pg 381 et seq] > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Ray's Index and Digest to Hathaway's N.C. History and Gen. Register, > 19945, > pg 38: > The popular conception of Governor DANIEL's genealogical history is that > he > was born in England, whereas, the weight of the suggestive, if not > positive, > evidence is that he was born in York or Warwick County, Virginia. No one > has > been able to determine with certainty the exact year in which Miles CARY, > the > emigrant arrived in Virginia, but it was prior to 1644/45 at least. He > was from > Bristol, England, and brought over with him his "known kinsman" Roger > DANIEL > and his son Roger DANIEL, JR. The latter was the father of Governor > Robert > DANIEL, who with his two brothers, John and Wilbert, fled to the Barbadoes > to > escape the wrath of BERKLEY after the rebellion stirred up by Nathaniel > BACON. > > Wilbert DANIEL remained in the Island only a few months, after which he > returned to Virginia. Prior to his going there on NOV 13, 1678, he had > been one of > the subscribing witnesses to the Will of Henry ISHAM at Varina, in Henrico > County, whose wife was the widow of ROYAL, and whose son Henry ROYAL in > 1693 > witnessed with Darby DANIEL (uncle of Governor Robert) the Will of his > stepson, > Henry COPELAND in Elizabeth City. > > John DANIEL, the other brother, remained in the Barbadoes for some time > and > the St James Parish Records there show the birth of two sons, John [JR] in > 1678 > and Thomas in 1679. > > Robert DANIEL had married Dorothy CHAMBERLAINE, by whom he had one son, > Robert, and John DANIEL, his brother, married [in Barbadoes~?] to Ann > UNKNOWN. > Thomas DANIEL, b: 1679, married Elizabeth LANIER, daughter of Thomas > Lanier, who > was living for a time in the Island, and both Thomas DANIEL and Thomas > LANIER > died in Tyrrell County, NC about 1750, as disclosed by these Hathaway > records. > > Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN, the first wife of Robert DANIEL, had a sister who > appears to have been the wife of John LEAR, Clerk of Nansemond County, > Virginia, > hence Robert DANIEL and the old Clerk were brothers-in-law. Dorothy also > had a > nephew Marmaduke CHAMBERLAINE, for whom Governor DANIEL named his second > grandson. > > North Carolina History & Gen. Register, Vol 1, pg 199, refers to Thomas > DANIEL, John DANIEL and Robert DANIEL. > [Will of Milles CARY of Warwick County, Virginia, dtd 09 JUN 1667, pr. 21 > JUN > 1667, Warwick County, left his grey mare and that parcel or tract of land > called "Gaole" with all the rents and profits, to Roger DANIELL ~ The > Virginia > CARYs, Harrison, 1919, pgs 164~167]. > > Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN was not the first Chamberlaine to marry a DANIELL. > "A" > Robert DANIELL married (2) to Margaret CHAMBERLAIN who died at Edmonton, > Middlesex, 30 JUL 1663. > > > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to > change your subscription method or email address or you have a suggestion > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free to > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >

Probably nothing not already discussed, or of interest here... but Elizabeth LANIER is shown with her Thomas DANIEL in the family of Robert, and can see how the two Sarah DANIELs marrying WILLSON or WILSON could be confusing.....same Wilson book, pgs 8 and 9 ~ "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 Robert DANIEL I The English DANIELLs are of Norman origin, descending from the D'ANVERS or DANYERs family, who held estates in Cheshire in the reign of Henry III and bore arms "Arg. a pale fusily sa." which appear to be identical with those engraved on the seal of Colonel Robert DANIELL, progenitor of the Barbados branch. Similar arms, were, however, borne by other DANIELL lines in the Heralds' Visitations, that of London [originally from Norfolk] in 1634 showing Robert DANIELL of London, merchant, with a son Robert then aged three years. According to Hathaway's North Carolina History and Genealogy Register, [below] the first known ancestor was Roger DANIELL the elder, who came over with his kinsman Miles CAREY from Bristol, England, to Virginia before 1644/45 ~ Married UNKNOWN and had: 1. Roger DANIELL the younger, who came over from Bristol to Virginia with Roger, his father and their kinsman Miles CAREY ~ Married and had: 1.a. Robert DANIELL, Governor 1.b. John DANIELL of Barbados ~ Married Ann UNKNOWN and had: 1.b.1. John DANIELL, baptized at St. James, Barbados in 1678 1.b.2. Thomas DANIELL of Tyrrell County, North Carolina, baptized at St. James, Barbados ~ dc: 1750, Tyrell County ~ Married Elizabeth LANIER of Tyrell County, daughter of Thomas LANIER. 1.b.3. Wilbert DANIELL, of Virginia, who spent only a short time in Barbados. ~O~ 2. Darby DANIELL, who was living in Virginia in 1693. [brother to Roger @ 1.] ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Colonel Robert DANIELL was, according to his age on the memorial tablet, born in 1646 [1. Ray claims that he was born in Virginia ~ see later] and although he was obviously possessed of considerable natural ability and talent, he is believed to have had influential family connections from his earliest days. He married (1) between 1675 and 1680, to Dorothy CHAMBERLAYNE, bc: 1654 ~ d: 16 OCT 1711, daughter of Colonel Edmund Chamberlayne of Maughersbury, County of Glouucester. The CHAMBERLAYNE family through their marital connections with the PYE family were prominent in Barbados trading circles, and Robert DANIELL took up this mode of life. His wife was an heiress and evidently refused to share the dangers and vicissitudes of colonial sea trading. Robert and Dorothy had one child, Robert II, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709. There is no indication in the records that Dorothy accompanied her husband on any of his trips to Barbados, Virginia, or the Carolinas. The year and circumstances of his first journey from England to Barbados are not known, but it must have been about the time of the Restoration or soon after, and as he was a staunch Royalist and Churchman, political factors are unlikely to have been involved, and he was probably at first a merchant or planter and perhaps owner or part-owner of a ship. Neither is it known how long he remained in Barbados, indeed it is probable that after his first arrival he made several voyages to and from England. Hotten records his migration from Barbados to Carolina, 04 APR 1679, in the ship "Mary" with Nicholas LOCKWOOD, Commander. He was accompanied by his servant Mary COOPER. [2. The Original Lists of Persons of Quality, 1600 ~ 1700, London, 1874, edited by John Camden HOTTEN] He received a succession of land grants, the first being dated a year before his arrival [3. Warrants for Lands in South Carolina, A. S. SALLEY, JR ~ see later] Although he was one of the largest landholders in South Carolina, he was not land-hungry. In fact, in several instances he sold lands in a very short time, probably in order to provide working capital for his trading adventures. He was taking an important part in the administrative life of Carolina within a few months of his arrival, making an appraisement of Thomas NERSE's property in 1680, and is himself referred to as a landowner in South Carolina on 15 DEC 16800, and again on 07 MAY and 10 MAY 1682, on all occasions with the rank of Captain. McCRADY records that "among the leaders who came into the Province of Carolina were some of great ability. Governor MOORE and Major Robert DANIELL though not among the first settlers, had each been in the Province some years. DANIELL from Barbados in 1679, and had already taken an active part in its affairs." His military rank appears to have varied. In MAY and AUG 1692 he is described as Major Captain in a deed dated 1693 [S.C.H. & G.M., Vol XI, pg 128] Major and Commander of the ship "Daniell of South Carolina" on 24 NOV 1693 [Ibid, Vol VIII, pg 210] Captain in a Will appointing him as Executor in 1695 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 83] Major again on 12 SEP 1696 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 236] Major on 10 MAR 1696/97 [Ibid, Vol X, pg 24] Major on 10 JAN 1697 [S.C.H.S. Collections, Vol 1, pg 144] In communications from the Lords Proprietors to the Governor and Council at Charles Town in 1698 [Ibid, Vol I, pg 456] his rank is given as Major and in 1702 he is styled Colonel [Rivers' Sketch, pg 20] and again in 1710, 1712 and 1716. In 1686 [Va Mag, Vol V, pg 81 ante.] he took an important part in the action against Spanish forces which had destroyed Stuart Town on Port Royal Island and other settlements in Carolina. Much of Robert DANIELL's time in the 16800's appears to have been spent in sailing his ships between America, Jamaica and Barbados [McCALL, TIDWELL and Allied Families, 1931, McCALL] His earliest extant signature "Robert Daniel" appears on a bond between John COMMINGS and Edward MAYO, 14 FEB 1680. The original contract is now in the possession of E. Roy DANIELL and Elizabeth HARLESTON DANIELL. The Will of Henry SYMMONDS of Charles Town, Vintner, proved before Governor BLAKE, 13 MAR 1695, appoints his friend Captain Robert DANIELL to be executor and trustee for testator's wife, Frances. The Will of Richard BUTLER, made 12 SEP 1696, appoints Major Robert DANIELL guardian to his wife and son. His career seems to have been little affected by his active opposition, beginning in 1680, to Landgrave John COLLETON, even after the latter became Governor. He was a loyal adherent of Seth SOTHEL throughout that stormy administration. In 1692 he was therefore excepted (with James MOORE) by the Lords Proprietors from the general pardon extended by them to all who had been concerned in Governor COLLETON's expulsion. Nevertheless, this did DANIELL little harm, and from then till the end of his life, his record was one of proomotion and achievement. In MAY 1692 as Major Robert DANIELL with Charles BURNHAM, he was entered as security for Robert GOSSE, who arrived in Carolina in the ship "Loyal Jamaica" [Grant Book, Secretary of State's Office, 1672/94, pg 78] In 1697 he was appointed Deputy to the Earl of Craven ~ Commissions and Instructions from the Lords Proprietors of Carolina to Public Officials of South Carolina, 1685~1715, pg 108. The Commission is as follows: William Lord CRAVEN one of ye true & absolute Lords & Proprietrs of ye Province of Carolina ~ to Robert DANIELL, Esq. Whereas it is Appointed by the Lords Proprietrs of Carolina in their ffundamentall Constitutions and Rules of Governmt that each of ye Lords Proprietrs shall Name a Deputy to be his Representative in ye generall Assembly and Councell of Carolina. I out of ye Confidence I have in ye Wisdome, Prudence & Loyalty of you ye said Robert DANIELL Do Constitute & Appoint you ye sd. Robert DANIELL to be my Deputy in that Part of our Province of Carolina wch llLyes South and West of Cape ffear, wth. full Power and Authority to Act and Exercise all such Powers & Things as to a Proprietrs Depty do's Belong Given under my Hand and Seal the fourteenth day of January Anno Dom: 1697/8. CRAVEN (Seal) Robert DANIELL served with great distinction in the ill-fated expedition led by Governor MOORE against St. Augustine in Florida in 1702 [The History of South Carolina under the Proprietary Government, 1670 ~ 1719, by Edward McCRADY, 1897, pg 381 et seq] ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Ray's Index and Digest to Hathaway's N.C. History and Gen. Register, 19945, pg 38: The popular conception of Governor DANIEL's genealogical history is that he was born in England, whereas, the weight of the suggestive, if not positive, evidence is that he was born in York or Warwick County, Virginia. No one has been able to determine with certainty the exact year in which Miles CARY, the emigrant arrived in Virginia, but it was prior to 1644/45 at least. He was from Bristol, England, and brought over with him his "known kinsman" Roger DANIEL and his son Roger DANIEL, JR. The latter was the father of Governor Robert DANIEL, who with his two brothers, John and Wilbert, fled to the Barbadoes to escape the wrath of BERKLEY after the rebellion stirred up by Nathaniel BACON. Wilbert DANIEL remained in the Island only a few months, after which he returned to Virginia. Prior to his going there on NOV 13, 1678, he had been one of the subscribing witnesses to the Will of Henry ISHAM at Varina, in Henrico County, whose wife was the widow of ROYAL, and whose son Henry ROYAL in 1693 witnessed with Darby DANIEL (uncle of Governor Robert) the Will of his stepson, Henry COPELAND in Elizabeth City. John DANIEL, the other brother, remained in the Barbadoes for some time and the St James Parish Records there show the birth of two sons, John [JR] in 1678 and Thomas in 1679. Robert DANIEL had married Dorothy CHAMBERLAINE, by whom he had one son, Robert, and John DANIEL, his brother, married [in Barbadoes~?] to Ann UNKNOWN. Thomas DANIEL, b: 1679, married Elizabeth LANIER, daughter of Thomas Lanier, who was living for a time in the Island, and both Thomas DANIEL and Thomas LANIER died in Tyrrell County, NC about 1750, as disclosed by these Hathaway records. Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN, the first wife of Robert DANIEL, had a sister who appears to have been the wife of John LEAR, Clerk of Nansemond County, Virginia, hence Robert DANIEL and the old Clerk were brothers-in-law. Dorothy also had a nephew Marmaduke CHAMBERLAINE, for whom Governor DANIEL named his second grandson. North Carolina History & Gen. Register, Vol 1, pg 199, refers to Thomas DANIEL, John DANIEL and Robert DANIEL. [Will of Milles CARY of Warwick County, Virginia, dtd 09 JUN 1667, pr. 21 JUN 1667, Warwick County, left his grey mare and that parcel or tract of land called "Gaole" with all the rents and profits, to Roger DANIELL ~ The Virginia CARYs, Harrison, 1919, pgs 164~167]. Dorothy CHAMBERLAIN was not the first Chamberlaine to marry a DANIELL. "A" Robert DANIELL married (2) to Margaret CHAMBERLAIN who died at Edmonton, Middlesex, 30 JUL 1663.

Good morning, I know you realize the RIVERS connection in this Charleston family interests me. I assume you also know of the STAYARNE connection to the RAVENS. The RIVERS I am interested lived across the river on James Island, SC and not that Berkeley County, SC bunch, specifically the RIVERS family with Francis RIVERS as the ancestor. This family has collaterals named ROYALL, SAMRVAYES, probably CAPERS, SHECUT, CROSSKEY, WHITNEY, SIBLEY, MIKELL of Edisto Island, CALDER, HOLMES, GREEN, BECKETT, McLEOD and others of the Charleston, SC area. . It has been said these RIVERS descend from a RIVERS of the Bermuda 100 area in VA but I have been unable to confirm this connection. All of these folks were literate. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 4:51 AM Subject: [DANIEL-L] Slight Correction to child of Sarah DANIEL & Algernon WILSON, SR. > Not to give the impression that Jehu WILSON married a widow BLAKEWAY, > thought > I had better correct that point, and went ahead and added a few dates > while > at it.... sorry, Annie [Ole Nettles] > > 3. Jehu WILSON, Will dated 05 JUN 1795 ~ proved 11 NOV 1826, Charleston. > Appointed wife executrix and brothers Thomas and Algernon, JR as > executors, left > estate between his wife and children, daughter Elizabeth Anne also to have > what was given to her mother; Married Sarah Blakeway CHALMERS, b: 01 JUN > 1756 > [Will dated 08 FEB 1791, proved 10 AUG 1801] Daughter of Dr. Lionel > CHALMERS, > bc: 1715 ~ d: 08 MAY 1777, and [M: 30 JAN 1737/38] his first wife Martha > LOGAN, > b: 17 JUL 1722 ~ db: 1795, who was a granddaughter of Lt. General the > Honorable Robert DANIELL. [Jehu's only other child was Eliza WILSON, both > she and her > sister were unmarried in 1795] Martha LOGAN, the daughter of George > LOGAN, > JR, bc: 1695, and Martha DANIELL, b: 07 DEC 1704 ~ d: 28 JUN 1779 ~ > Daughter of > Robert DANIELL, b: 20 APR 1646, Llandewi Brefi Wales [or take your pick] ~ > dc: 10 MAY 1718, Daniell's Island, South Carolina, and (2) Martha > WAINWRIGHT > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation for longer than 5 days? Please unsubscribe > Click on the following link and your message is ready to send > Mail Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > or- > Digest Mode: > mailto:DANIEL-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > >

Good Morning, As you know I have a pretty good understanding of this DANIELL family of Charleston and I have never been against the possibility there were not entanglements between this Charleston DANIELL family and the DANIELS of eastern NC, as some have. I do not think the DANIELL family of Brunswick and New Hanover County, NC was as it is has been depicted in current thought. As most know, I have severe reservations about the children of John DANIELL and Sarah RAVEN, specifically William DANIELL, Sr. We know in deeds that before Robert DANIELL's marriage to Martha WAINWRIGHT, he gave her all types of real and personal property, located in the Bath County area of NC, to buy her silence, I assume, since his first wife was still alive. We also know that all of his and Martha's children were born well before his marriage to Martha, even though their subsequent marriage legitimated these children. I can sympathize with all of this, however, there may be more links in this DANIELL family to that area of NC than we currently know. Much of our research in this area of NC seems to be complicated by so many Robert DANIELS in this area. In the 1750 time frame there are three or four Robert DANIELS floating around this area of NC. I know for a fact that in 1778 there are two in Martin, in 1790 there are two in Pitt, in 1800 there is one in Greene and this is just three counties in this area. Even Robert DANIEL, Sr. of Martin County, NC is not mentioned in his father's will, even though we now list him as a son of Simon but we are not even sure he was Simon I or Simon II. I am not in the least sure of the layout of the Thomas DANIEL and Elizabeth LANIER family. Sure, we have the names of their living children in 1749 and 1752 from their parent's wills but since these names are reasonably common, which specific persons of that names are they talking about. The following is a general description of William CANNON that really interests me. <<< William Cannon: patents land north of Tarr in '40 and '45. Bought land in '62, and was in the '63 but not the '62 list. Neighbors: George Mayo, Ebenezer Folsom, William Harris, Samuel Meares, William Baldwin, and William Proctor. By 1770 his 150 Ac. 1740 patent (adjoining Robert Daniel) was sold by Henry Cooper to John Hodges. The '45 patent passed by unknown means at unknown date to John Hatton. A William Cannon was in the '90 census. >>> Notice who listed as the neighbors of William CANNON, specifically Ebenezer FOLSOM. Who did he marry? He married Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL, supposedly the d/o T&E. Who else are listed as his neighbors and included in them are two Charleston names, COOPER and PROCTOR. I am pretty sure the Samuel MEARES is really MOORE, too, since the MOYES and MOORES followed each other for close to 300 years. BTW, John HATTON, married Frances CASON, d/o John CASON whose mother was a daughter of William CANNON. Hence the name, Cannon CASON. The CASONS also state that one of John CASON (1737-1815) and Eleanor PINCKETT's daughters married a Robert DANIEL. The question is, which one. We also know from the 1779 Pitt County, NC complaint of Col. James ARMSTRONG about the theft of one of his slaves by Robert DANIEL, Jr. that the reason Robert, Jr. secreted the slave to BYNUM's home was because Hillary CASON was coming to dinner. This poses the question, why was Hillary coming to dinner. However, it would make sense if he was Robert's uncle, would it not? So, there seems to be something to this CASON-DANIEL marriage but since this involved a Robert DANIEL, Jr. then who was Robert DANIEL, Sr.? I also know from the 1790 Pitt County, NC census there was two Roberts in Pitt. One, clearly appears to be Robert Lanier DANIEL (1718-1794) and the other a Robert DANNALS but both are surrounded by CASONS, so who was this second Robert. We also have Robert DANIEL, Sr. of Martin County, NC who married Mary SWAIN and his son, Robert DANIEL, Jr. who is clearly identified in records as an adult in 1781 when he made a will before he left for service in the RW. Was this the Robert DANIEL, Jr. who stole the slave, "Suk," from Col. ARMSTRONG? I do not think so since the 1779 complaint seems to only involve Pitt County, NC families. I think we need to re-think some of these families in eastern NC and to include the possibility that some of the DANIELL family of Charleston, in addition to the ones we already know, also lived in this area. According to MOORE researchers, the MOORE family of this area descended from the MOORES of Charleston and Barbados. We also know the MAYS and STAFFORDS were close to this DANIEL bunch. Yet, we also know the MAYS had links to Charleston, as well as New Hanover County, NC. It is through the MAYS that this bunch ties into the MANER family of Onslow and bingo, we are into some of the Charleston area families, like the ROBERT, DIXON, SMITH, HYRNE, LATWON families etc., in the blink of an eye. Were these proximity marriages or family marriages? This following is a quote from the MAY family, as relates to the children of John MAY (1713-1763) and Mary STAFFORD of Pitt County, NC. The Josiah DANIEL listed is the youngest son of T&E. <<< One (name unknown) married John Tison; One (name unknown) married Josiah Johnston; Elizabeth married Josiah Daniels; Jerusha married John Paisley; Sarah married John Garnett; Mary (MAY), born October 21, 1755, married Samuel Maner on July 8, 1772; Jane Aseneth, the seventh and youngest, married William Maner, brother of Samuel. Both of these Maner brothers were Revolutionary soldiers and served in General Francis Marion's brigade. The progeny of these seven daughters is almost as numerous as the leaves of the forest, and through them a bond of relationship exists between most of the old families of the Carolinas and Georgia. >>> This begs the question, who else from this area served in Marion's Brigade during the RW. According to some, Capt. Aaron DANIEL did, Stephen Beadon DANIELL did. both MANER boys and I am probably pretty sure that Josiah did. I will bet that most do not know who Col. Ebenezer FOLSOM. RS-NC (1730-1789) after the death of his first wife, Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL? Would it surprise you to know Ebenezer married Elizabeth SMITH (1724-1792), the widow of William BRYAN, Sr.(1724-1780) and his son, Israel FOLSOM, married her daughter, Edith BRYAN. Interesting, isn't it? What is more interesting are all of the connections we pick up from William BRYAN and Elizabeth SMITH's children. Mary BRYAN married Thomas LEE (probably LEA), Lewis married Sarah HINTON, William married Elizabeth GRAY, Arthur married a CULLEN, Elizabeth married William BLACKMAN, Hardy married Winifred McCULLARS, Blake married Elizabeth BLACKSHEAR, Edith married Israel FOLSOM, Esther married Jonathan SMITH, Frederick married Amelia PUGH, Susannah married John Council BUSH, and John married Martha "Patsy:" HINTON. These HINTON kids were children of John HINTON and Sarah BRYAN, William's first cousin and John's sister, Sarah HINTON, married Solomon ALSTON of Chowan County, NC All of these families were very interconnected, and I have not even mentioned their connections to the WHITFIELDS, the family into which Capt. Aaron DANIEL married. However, the "Big Three" are the WHITFIELDS, BRYANS and SMITHS because they permeate this whole bunch and when you see one, you will see the others. If you want to see how this family mixes, just take a look at Solomon ALSTON's parents, John ALSTON (1670-1758) and Mary CLARK of Chowan - Solomon married Nancy HINTON (d/o John HINTON and Mary HARDY), Joseph married a CHANCY, William married a KIMBROUGH, Elizabeth married Samuel WILLIAMS, Mary married William SEWARD, James married Christian LILLINGTON, Sarah married Thomas KEARNEY, Martha married Lemuel WINSON (s/o Willis WILSON) and Charity married John DAWSON. The HINTONS also tie back into the LANES through the KIMBROUGHS. Another family that is close to this bunch are the SMITHWICKS and the SWAINS. In the children of James SWAIN, Sr. (1695-1763) and Elizabeth SMITHWICK, Mary married Robert DANIEL, Sr. of Martin, Patience married a SMITH, Ann married a RAY (probably part of the Worth RAY bunch), Sarah married a PRICE, John Sr., married Elizabeth LANIER, James, Jr. married Mary LANIER (Elizabeth's sister) and Hannah married a WARD. This LANIER line is part of the Robert LANIER and Sarah BARKER family, the same family from which the Elizabeth LANIER who married Thomas DANIEL came from. In fact, Elizabeth Lanier DANIEL was the aunt of these LANIER kids because they were the children of her brother, John and his wife, Sarah ADAMS. I have a feeling that Sarah is part of the same ADAMS family that ties into the CASONS in Pitt County, NC in about the same time frame. The thing that I have tried to beat into some heads is -- researchers of a specific family tend to only look at a small piece of the pie and this often causes them to have a myopic view of these families creating possibilities for miss-assignments. Another thing that any researcher has to be aware of is -- there were lots of June and December marriages, as well as July, August, September, October and November ones, too. <grin> Such, was the facts of the time -- both husbands and wives tended to die at alarming rates. I cannot tell you the number of GEDCOMS I have seen where a "December" bride was listed as the mother of the husband's children, when she was not their mother but an elderly step mother. I will be the first to tell you that I cannot piece all of these families together because there were too many WHITEFIELDS that became WHITFIELDS and BRYANTS that became BRYANS but I have a pretty good understanding of them and who they would marry. This is why I always support in this time frame, family marriages, and this is the reason we see so many of them in this time frame. My maternal lines made an art out of this concept. Do I think my paternal DANIEL bunch were any different - no. I think they married family, over and over, again, just like my maternal bunch. Sure, they would pick up a new collateral, here and there, but there would be some reason for that family to be merged into this group -- probably a proximity marriage. I do not know if these DANIEL families, listed as the IOW bunch by Payne, are one DANIEL family, two DANIEL families or even a bunch of completely different, un-related DANIEL families. However, I do support the general theory of Occam's Razor, in that, if two hypotheses fit the observations equally well, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be chosen. In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the best explanation and the best explanation in this example is -- they were all part of the same overall DANIEL family. However, we may find this not to be the case. With about 20 different DNA strains currently identified in the DANIEL family, we may find this not to be the case sooner, rather than later. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <ShuShuFlyPie@cs.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] Thomas Daniel/Elizabeth Lanier > In a message dated 4/10/2004 9:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, > gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com writes: >> 6. Sarah, b:1730, Daughter of Thomas DANIEL and Elizabeth LANIER ~ >> M:Algermon Wilson, M2:John Wilson. No idea about this Algernon Wilson. >> John (Wilson) >> spelled his name Willson. >> >> > Payne, This might clear it up.... this book is well documented with > sources > and etc. > "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., > Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 > > ALGERNON WILSON, ESQ of St. Paul's Parish, Colleton County, South Carolina > ~ > d: 31 MAR 1774 ~ He owned numerous slaves, many plantations and several > houses > in town ~ Married 06 FEB 1746, to SARAH PROCTOR DANIELL of Berkeley County > South Carolina, b: 17 JAN 1727/28 ~ db: AUG 1801 ~ Daughter of Marmaduke > DANIEL, > SR, bc 1703 ~ dc: 1741, and Susan [probably PROCTOR], bc: 1724. And, > great-granddaughter of the Honorable Robert DANIELL, Governor of South > Carolina. > > NOTE: The only sibling of Sarah Proctor DANIELL WILSON was Marmaduke > DANIEL, > JR, b: 13 DEC 1725 ~ d: after 1786 [There are deeds in Chatham County, > North > Carolina signed by Marmaduke in 1782 and 1786.] > > Marmaduke DANIEL, SR, the younger son of Robert DANIEL, bc: 1680 ~ d: > after > 20 OCT 1709 and Sarah UNKNOWN, d: 31 JUL 1721 ~ her sister was Mrs. Anne > SHUDLEY or Chudleigh, of England. Marmaduke DANIELL, SR's only sibling > was Robert > DANIELL, [JR] mentioned in their mother Sarah DANIELL's Will, dated 28 JUL > 1721 > ~ proved 08 FEB 1721/22. Witnesses: William RHETT, JR and son Robert > DANIELL. [Will Book 1721/22, Vol I, pg 21] > > Children of ALGERNON WILSON and SARAH PROCTOR DANIELL: > 1. Daniel WILSON, will dated 28 JUL 1794 ~ Married Mary UNKNOWN, living > in > 1794 > > 2. John WILSON ~ d: 1798 ~ Married (1) 14 DEC 1769, to Mary RIVERS, {1} > child: Elizabeth Mary WILSON, married James STANYARNE, uncle of John > WILSON's > second spouse ~ John WILSON Married secondly, circa 1790, to Elizabeth > STANYARNE, > db: 21 FEB 1805 ~ They had three children: {2} William Stanyarne WILSON, > b: > 1797 ~ d: 10 MAY 1834, married Anna Maria Eliza BLACKBURN, b: 26 OCT 1797 > ~ d: > 31 MAY 1845; {3} Sarah Fassoux WILSON, never married; {4} John H. > WILSON, > married Frances FREER. [There's much more on this couple, if interested.] > > 3. Jehu WILSON, Will dated 05 JUN 1795 ~ proved 11 NOV 1826, Charleston. > Appointed wife executrix and brothers Thomas and Algernon, JR executors, > left > estate between his wife and children, daughter Elizabeth Anne also to have > what > was given to her mother; Married Sarah BLAKEWAY [Will dated 08 FEB 1791, > proved 10 AUG 1801] Daughter of Dr. Lionel CHALMERS and his first wife > Martha > LOGAN, who was a granddaughter of Lt. General the Honorable Robert > DANIELL. > [Jehu's only other child was Eliza WILSON, both she and her sister were > unmarried in > 1795] > > 4. SARAH WILSON, d: 1776 ~ Married 29/30 JAN 1772, to Dr. Peter FASSOUX, > b: > 1745, of Charleston ~ Child: Frances FASSOUX, d: 1797, unmarried. > > 5. Algernon WILSON, JR > > 6. Susanna WILSON, d: unmarried after 1800 > > 7. Joseph Nicholas WILSON of St. Paul's Parish, Colleton County, Will > dated > 04 FEB 1791 ~ proved in 1794, Charleston. Joseph mentioned that he and > his > brother Thomas were planning to go to sea on a trading expedition to the > West > Indies and since storms are treacherous he may not survive, and if his > brother > Thomas shall lose his life as well as I, then my brother Algernon will be > executor. > > 8. Thomas WILSON, ~ Living in 1791, when he proposed voyaging to the West > Indies with his brother Joseph WILSON. > > 9. Mary WILSON ~ Married Thomas DRAYTON, and had {1} William Henry > DRAYTON, > and {2} Sarah Daniell DRAYTON, who married Thomas Smith GRIMKE and had a > son, John Drayton GRIMKE, who changed his name to DRAYTON in order to > inherit the > famous Magnolia Gardens near Charleston. > > Little is definitely known of ALGERNON WILSON's family and ancestry in > England beyond the fact that he was in some way related at least once and > possibly > by two alliances to Thomas WILSON, Bishop of Sodor and Man, who used the > arms > of Wilson of Waldershaigh, Yorkshire. > > A portrait of [Sarah Proctor DANIELL] Mrs. Algernon WILSON was painted by > Jeriah THEUS. One of her granddaughters married John BOYLE and it is in > this > branch of the family that the portrait has remained. > > There is no mention that this Sarah Proctor DANIELL WILSON ever married > again... after nine children. > `````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > A copy of a deed dated 15 OCT 1711 [made by the WPA] from Book > Miscellaneous > 1714~1717, pg 44, in the Probate Court in Charleston: "This is to certify > that I, Dorothy [Chamberlayne] DANIELL, having good right and title in > myself by > virtue of a deed of gift made me by voluntary act and deed of my > well-beloved > husband, Colonel Robert DANIELL, on 29 JUN 1710... to the use of my > grandson > Marmaduke DANIELL, the now youngest son of my son Robert DANIELL and my > daughter Sarah DANIELL, his wife, etc." and signed by Dorothy D. DANIELL > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. >

Not to give the impression that Jehu WILSON married a widow BLAKEWAY, thought I had better correct that point, and went ahead and added a few dates while at it.... sorry, Annie [Ole Nettles] 3. Jehu WILSON, Will dated 05 JUN 1795 ~ proved 11 NOV 1826, Charleston. Appointed wife executrix and brothers Thomas and Algernon, JR as executors, left estate between his wife and children, daughter Elizabeth Anne also to have what was given to her mother; Married Sarah Blakeway CHALMERS, b: 01 JUN 1756 [Will dated 08 FEB 1791, proved 10 AUG 1801] Daughter of Dr. Lionel CHALMERS, bc: 1715 ~ d: 08 MAY 1777, and [M: 30 JAN 1737/38] his first wife Martha LOGAN, b: 17 JUL 1722 ~ db: 1795, who was a granddaughter of Lt. General the Honorable Robert DANIELL. [Jehu's only other child was Eliza WILSON, both she and her sister were unmarried in 1795] Martha LOGAN, the daughter of George LOGAN, JR, bc: 1695, and Martha DANIELL, b: 07 DEC 1704 ~ d: 28 JUN 1779 ~ Daughter of Robert DANIELL, b: 20 APR 1646, Llandewi Brefi Wales [or take your pick] ~ dc: 10 MAY 1718, Daniell's Island, South Carolina, and (2) Martha WAINWRIGHT

In a message dated 4/10/2004 9:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com writes: > 6. Sarah, b:1730, Daughter of Thomas DANIEL and Elizabeth LANIER ~ > M:Algermon Wilson, M2:John Wilson. No idea about this Algernon Wilson. John (Wilson) > spelled his name Willson. > > Payne, This might clear it up.... this book is well documented with sources and etc. "A Carolina ~ Virginia Genealogy" compiled by York Lowry WILSON, [A.B., Princeton University, 1915] published by Aldershot Gale & Polden, Ltd 1962 ALGERNON WILSON, ESQ of St. Paul's Parish, Colleton County, South Carolina ~ d: 31 MAR 1774 ~ He owned numerous slaves, many plantations and several houses in town ~ Married 06 FEB 1746, to SARAH PROCTOR DANIELL of Berkeley County South Carolina, b: 17 JAN 1727/28 ~ db: AUG 1801 ~ Daughter of Marmaduke DANIEL, SR, bc 1703 ~ dc: 1741, and Susan [probably PROCTOR], bc: 1724. And, great-granddaughter of the Honorable Robert DANIELL, Governor of South Carolina. NOTE: The only sibling of Sarah Proctor DANIELL WILSON was Marmaduke DANIEL, JR, b: 13 DEC 1725 ~ d: after 1786 [There are deeds in Chatham County, North Carolina signed by Marmaduke in 1782 and 1786.] Marmaduke DANIEL, SR, the younger son of Robert DANIEL, bc: 1680 ~ d: after 20 OCT 1709 and Sarah UNKNOWN, d: 31 JUL 1721 ~ her sister was Mrs. Anne SHUDLEY or Chudleigh, of England. Marmaduke DANIELL, SR's only sibling was Robert DANIELL, [JR] mentioned in their mother Sarah DANIELL's Will, dated 28 JUL 1721 ~ proved 08 FEB 1721/22. Witnesses: William RHETT, JR and son Robert DANIELL. [Will Book 1721/22, Vol I, pg 21] Children of ALGERNON WILSON and SARAH PROCTOR DANIELL: 1. Daniel WILSON, will dated 28 JUL 1794 ~ Married Mary UNKNOWN, living in 1794 2. John WILSON ~ d: 1798 ~ Married (1) 14 DEC 1769, to Mary RIVERS, {1} child: Elizabeth Mary WILSON, married James STANYARNE, uncle of John WILSON's second spouse ~ John WILSON Married secondly, circa 1790, to Elizabeth STANYARNE, db: 21 FEB 1805 ~ They had three children: {2} William Stanyarne WILSON, b: 1797 ~ d: 10 MAY 1834, married Anna Maria Eliza BLACKBURN, b: 26 OCT 1797 ~ d: 31 MAY 1845; {3} Sarah Fassoux WILSON, never married; {4} John H. WILSON, married Frances FREER. [There's much more on this couple, if interested.] 3. Jehu WILSON, Will dated 05 JUN 1795 ~ proved 11 NOV 1826, Charleston. Appointed wife executrix and brothers Thomas and Algernon, JR executors, left estate between his wife and children, daughter Elizabeth Anne also to have what was given to her mother; Married Sarah BLAKEWAY [Will dated 08 FEB 1791, proved 10 AUG 1801] Daughter of Dr. Lionel CHALMERS and his first wife Martha LOGAN, who was a granddaughter of Lt. General the Honorable Robert DANIELL. [Jehu's only other child was Eliza WILSON, both she and her sister were unmarried in 1795] 4. SARAH WILSON, d: 1776 ~ Married 29/30 JAN 1772, to Dr. Peter FASSOUX, b: 1745, of Charleston ~ Child: Frances FASSOUX, d: 1797, unmarried. 5. Algernon WILSON, JR 6. Susanna WILSON, d: unmarried after 1800 7. Joseph Nicholas WILSON of St. Paul's Parish, Colleton County, Will dated 04 FEB 1791 ~ proved in 1794, Charleston. Joseph mentioned that he and his brother Thomas were planning to go to sea on a trading expedition to the West Indies and since storms are treacherous he may not survive, and if his brother Thomas shall lose his life as well as I, then my brother Algernon will be executor. 8. Thomas WILSON, ~ Living in 1791, when he proposed voyaging to the West Indies with his brother Joseph WILSON. 9. Mary WILSON ~ Married Thomas DRAYTON, and had {1} William Henry DRAYTON, and {2} Sarah Daniell DRAYTON, who married Thomas Smith GRIMKE and had a son, John Drayton GRIMKE, who changed his name to DRAYTON in order to inherit the famous Magnolia Gardens near Charleston. Little is definitely known of ALGERNON WILSON's family and ancestry in England beyond the fact that he was in some way related at least once and possibly by two alliances to Thomas WILSON, Bishop of Sodor and Man, who used the arms of Wilson of Waldershaigh, Yorkshire. A portrait of [Sarah Proctor DANIELL] Mrs. Algernon WILSON was painted by Jeriah THEUS. One of her granddaughters married John BOYLE and it is in this branch of the family that the portrait has remained. There is no mention that this Sarah Proctor DANIELL WILSON ever married again... after nine children. `````````````````````````````````````````````````````` A copy of a deed dated 15 OCT 1711 [made by the WPA] from Book Miscellaneous 1714~1717, pg 44, in the Probate Court in Charleston: "This is to certify that I, Dorothy [Chamberlayne] DANIELL, having good right and title in myself by virtue of a deed of gift made me by voluntary act and deed of my well-beloved husband, Colonel Robert DANIELL, on 29 JUN 1710... to the use of my grandson Marmaduke DANIELL, the now youngest son of my son Robert DANIELL and my daughter Sarah DANIELL, his wife, etc." and signed by Dorothy D. DANIELL

Payne, Why did you mention the Lenoir County, NC POB for Aaron? I do not think your notes are cobbled up but these notes that I have for Aaron do not compare with the originals back at St. David's Church, although some of the same names are on both of these sources. This tells me that someone has added Aaron's name to this list of names at St. David's Church. Or, Virginia PROCTOR left his name off this list for some unknown reason. I do not know which is correct but that is what she has on the Marlboro County, SC website. This is why the Vestry Records of St. David's Church need to be looked at and compared against these notes to see where they differ. I also found some very interesting deeds on this Marlboro County, SC website, especially an 1816 deed for a John DERDEN (below). As I have told you several times, my grandmother, ended up with Land Lot 74 in Land District 19 in Morgan County, GA, formerly part of Baldwin County. This was land owned by John DURDEN, who went bankrupt in 1873 and his land was sold at the courthouse square in Madison and guess what he did -- he bought it all back, at least LL 74, LD 19. However, guess who ended up with it and there is no grantee-grantor record of how she got it? My grandmother, Alice Daniel RICHTER. Neither Marshall WILLIAMS, archivist of Morgan County, nor I have ever been able to figure this one out. My opinion is that John DURDEN was some kind of family and Alice took her $700 inheritance from her father, Robert W. DANIEL, which she had gotten a few years before (1867) her marriage to John RICHTER (1872), and bailed out John DURDEN because the purchase price was $709.25, almost exactly what she had gotten from her father's estate. Then, after his death, she inherited the property which is why there is not a Grantor-Grantee record of this transaction. Note: There are also some very familiar names in this 1816 SC deed. Maybe someone will see somthing that I do not. <<< John DERDEN to James FIELDS, 1816 Contributed by Brenda Wagner John Derden of the District of Chesterfield, for $5000, to James Fields of the District of Marlboro, 200 acres, a tract granted by Arthur Dobbs to Robert Palmer, 10 Oct 1755, and conveyed by Wm. Palmer, attorny, for Robert Palmer, by lease and release 14 & 15 Dec 1773, to John May Junr, and by John May Junr. to Wm. Blakeny, 5 March 1791, and from Wm. Blakeny to John Derden, 12 Aug 1802, on both sides Thomson's Creek, 100 acres, being half of a survey of 200 acres granted to Hartwell Weaver, 5 Dec 1791., also one other parcel, it being a part of 800 acres granted to Abner Lowry, 10 March 1791, 125 acres, at the first fork of Macks branch, above the school house fork, adj. John P. Rushing; another tract granted to Benjn. Thermon, 75 acres, being the lands whereon I now live at the cross roads or otherwise cauled Mount Croghan; also several other pieces or parcels of land containing seven hundred and forty hacres, originall granted to Gustavas Hendrick, Asey Hendrick & Samuel Alsobrooks, and conveyed by sd. Gustavas Hendrick to John Derden, by deed 22 May 1804, agreeable to a resurvay with the exception of 116 acres previously sold to James Derden, and 62 to Obediah Meadows; also one other tract on the North side of Thomsons Creek originally granted to David Hendrick, 3 March 1794.18 July 1816. >>> John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > Thanks for the record. I continue to be interested in the dates of birth > you > have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? I will look at > my > notes about Aaron but I don't think it's my notes you refer to as "cobbled > up", so are those notes from a source not mentioned here.? > > " It hurts when I swing, and it hurts when I don't." Arnold Palmer, 74 > years > of age. > > Payne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA > > >> Payne, >> >> Someone has really cobbled up these notes about Aaron DANIEL. I went to > the >> "hoss's mouth" and looked them up, myself, and he did not join a St. > David's >> Scottish Presbyterian Church, he seems to have joined the St. David's >> Church, a church of the Church of England. Interesting. >> >> What is even more interesting is Aaron DANIEL was not listed in any of >> the >> records these sources have listed for him, although the other names, like >> Samuel WISE,. Jesse COUNCIL, and others, are. The vestry notes are at >> the >> bottom of this page. >> >> That said, there should be some note of Aaron and Betsy in the vestry >> minutes of this church which are in the SC Archives and which have also > been >> published by Brent HOLCOLMB. >> >> This is just another example of where folks have cobbled up, commingled > and, >> it appears, out fabricated some of the stuff you see about Aaron and > Betsy. >> This is why I have always said, there are those who seem more than >> willing >> to fabricate their families genealogy to suit their own needs but it is >> rather difficult to do so over several other families, as well as when > faced >> with irrefutable historical documents. >> >> This information is from the Marlboro County, SC website. : >> >> <<< >> Please note that because the Vestry of St. David's also served the > community >> as a political body (voting, collecting taxes, etc.), early records will >> contain the names of members of all religious denominations. >> >> Minutes of the Vestry >> April 1768 >> The following gentlemen were named Commissioners for the Parish of St. >> David's: >> >> Claudius Pegues Charles Bedingfield >> Philip Pledger James James >> Alexander Mackintosh Robert Weaver >> George Hicks James Thomson >> Thomas Ellerbee Thomas Crawford >> Robert Alison Thomas Porte >> Thomas Lide Benjamin Rogers >> >> August 1st 1768 >> The Commissioners met at the House of Mr. Charles Bedingfield. >> Absent were Thomas Ellerbee, Robert Weaver, James Thomson, Thomas >> Crawford >> and Thomas Porte. >> >> Declining to act as Commissioners were Alexander Mackintosh, James James >> and Robert Alison. >> >> Elections were held. >> Elected as Vestry Men: >> Claudius Pegues, Philip Pledger, William Godfrey, Charles Bedingfield, >> Thomas Lide, Thomas Ellerbee, Thomas Bingham >> >> Elected as Church Wardens: >> Alexander Gordon and Benjamin Rogers. >> >> Durham Hitts was appointed Clerk of the Vestry. >> >> Electors were: >> William Hardwick >> Duke Glen >> John Mackintosh >> John Jenkins >> Edward Ellerbee >> John Husbands >> Thomas Boatright, Senr. >> Jesse Counsell >> John Pledger >> Robert Clary >> Robert Anderson >> Benjamin Jackson >> James Knight >> Samuel Wise >> James Thursby >> Thomas Williams >> Thomas Wade >> Leonard Dozier >> <<< >> >> John R. Clarke >> Thomasville, GA >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Payne Daniel" <gpdfla@tampabay.rr.com> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:48 AM >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> >I take it John that your are stating your opinions and suspicions, and >> >by >> > the way, what's wrong with Radford, Lenoir, NC, being the birth place >> > of >> > Aaron Daniel? What list of children do you support for Ensign Aaron and >> > Elizabeth Whitfield Daniel? According to Ingersol, page 414, Aaron was >> > born >> > in 1739 and died in 1790 in Cheraw District, SC. I am not a fan of >> > Ingersol >> > so your 1733 may be closer? I would also be interested in the dates of >> > birth >> > you have for the children Thomas Daniel and Elizabeth Lanier? >> > >> > From lovely New Tampa, Florida. Payne >> > >> > "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and >> > statistics." >> > -- Benjamin Disraeli >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:09 AM >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> > >> > >> >> Judy, >> >> That is correct but Duplin and Sampson County, NC were not what I >> > would >> >> consider to be "normal stomping grounds" for the Lanier-Daniels. >> >> Number one, this Moses has to be at least 16 to be witness of a > deed >> > and >> >> that puts his DOB as 1749, probably closer to 1744, making him at >> >> least >> >> of >> >> majority. This puts him as a contemporary of Aaron and not his son. >> > There >> >> is no Moses listed in the will of Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL, is > there? >> >> We also have reports there was an Abraham DANIEL born prior to 1750 >> > floating >> >> around this bunch and that, too, puts him as a contemporary of Aaron > and >> >> also not his son. >> >> You see we really do not know when Aaron was born, do we? Some >> >> say >> > 1739 >> >> but that is incorrect. He had to be born by 1733 not to be listed as >> >> a >> >> minor in his father's 1749 will nor was he listed as a minor in his >> > mother's >> >> 1752 will, was he? That means that he was born at least by 1733, >> >> probably >> >> before. >> >> I also always go with the general rule of Southern families, as > these >> >> DANIELS were, that parents tend to name their children after a >> >> combination >> >> of the given names of their father's and mother's families, with a few >> > vogue >> >> names thrown in from time to time. I also go with the general rule > that >> >> Yankee families went more towards Bible oriented given names, due to >> >> their >> >> Puritan influence, than did most Southern folks. >> >> Southerners, for the most part, have always gone with tradition, > even >> >> then. This does not mean there was not an occasional family where >> > religion >> >> dominated every part of their lives and they would name their children >> > after >> >> biblical characters because there were these occasional families. >> > However, >> >> for the most part Southern families were real big in naming their >> >> children >> >> according to tradition and that tradition indicates they will use > family >> >> names for their chillen. >> >> There were several Biblical names used in the WHITFIELDS that we > know >> >> of, Matthew and Luke, but their other given names are generally family >> >> names. When you go back to the BRYANS, they re-use family names, like >> >> water. There are hundreds of Rachels, Penelopes, Williams and Johns. >> > Even >> >> the WARRENS tended to re-use family names, as best I can tell. >> >> So, when I look at what I would think would be the given names for >> > Capt. >> >> Aaron and Betsy Whitfield DANIEL's kids, I would look at some type of >> >> combination of these names as possible given names for their children. >> > Yet, >> >> we do not see these names used in this family to any degree. That > makes >> > me >> >> really wonder about this DANIEL family, assuming we believe the claims > of >> >> some of their descendants concerning the identity of their ancestors. >> >> All of these Southern families of this era named their children in > an >> >> almost identical fashion. I cannot tell you how many Williams and > Johns >> >> there are in my families of this period and these were families that > not >> >> only lived right around these DANIELS but also had collateral links to >> > them. >> >> Without a will for either Aaron or Betsy, where their children are >> >> actually named, or some type or other contemporary document outlining >> >> this >> >> family to some degree, then what we see in POWG is highly suspect. >> >> Our >> >> major problem, today, is not in actually researching these various > lines >> > but >> >> in straightening out the mess of early family researchers who did not >> >> have >> >> access to the documents we have available to us, today. >> >> What these early researchers did was take "family myth" and force > the >> >> pieces of the known puzzle of the time into the holes on the board, >> > whether >> >> they actually fit or not. This is why you see both 10 and 60 year >> >> old >> >> females giving birth to children. The problem is -- we now know they >> >> skipped a generation or two in between. >> >> Yet, there are those who will fight to keep their established >> > genealogy, >> >> even with faced with the impossibility of such an assignment, because >> >> a >> >> change in that assignment would effect their membership in various >> >> organizations. This is also why we have such a hodge-podge of DNA >> > results >> >> and why some of the stuff we see does not match what we would think >> > because >> >> the person who submitted the DNA was really not a descendant of the >> >> person >> >> they think they descend from. >> >> I was talking with a MAY cousin who is trying to track his MAY >> > ancestry. >> >> He got a 24/25 marker match with some fellow in TN but I told him a > 24/25 >> >> marker test only indicates they had a common ancestor within the past >> >> 8 >> >> generations. I told him as close as he should have been to this > person, >> > he >> >> should have had a 25/25 marker match because, at the most, both of >> >> them >> > were >> >> only 5 generations removed from their "most recent common ancestor" >> > (MCRA). >> >> I would almost guarantee you that my DNA would give a perfect >> >> 25/25 >> >> match with someone from my RICHTER family in Germany if we were > descended >> >> from the same common Prussian ancestor, which is only five generations >> >> removed for me. As for Joe's DNA test, he is only 4 generations > removed >> >> from Charles MAY born 1778 in Edgefield County, SC which means their > MRCA >> > is >> >> located at least three generation beyond that time frame - a GGF of >> > Charles >> >> MAY. This really pushes them back to some time in the 1600's and >> >> maybe >> > even >> >> back to the old country, where ever that was. >> >> Take MS Lucy's recent DNA test. She, also, got a 24/25 marker > match >> > but >> >> this only indicates this person shared a MCRA at their 5th to 6th GGF >> > level. >> >> Since MS Lucy is only four generations removed from William DANIEL >> >> born >> > 1760 >> >> this means their MCRA was William DANIEL's GGF. That, was also a long >> > time >> >> ago. >> >> With a 25 marker test you should get a perfect match (25/25) with > any >> >> person with whom you share a MCRA within the past seven generations. > In >> >> simple terms, if you and they share, at least, a 5th GGF, you should > get >> >> a >> >> perfect match. If you share a MCRA beyond that, the match will > diminish, >> >> statistically. For most of us, that puts a perfect match well into >> >> the >> >> 1600's and I do not think we are searching for information much beyond >> > that, >> >> at least in this country. >> >> >> >> John R. Clarke >> >> Thomasville, GA >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:01 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, >> >> GA >> >> >> >> >> >> > Duplin/Sampson, NC Deed Records.....Feb 1765, pg, 186 & 187 >> >> > Aaron DANIEL & wife, Elizabeth to George FRAZIER, both of >> >> > Duplin County, 100ac.for 30 pds. ,near Goshen Swamp, adjecent >> >> > Mathew WHITFIELD. >> >> > Witness: Moses DANIEL, Mathew WHITFIELD, James OUTLAW. >> >> > Signed: Aaron DANIEL, Elizabeth DANIEL >> >> > >> >> > Judy Garner, >> >> > Sebring,FL >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Judy Garner" <jpast59@strato.net> >> >> > To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 7:51 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, > GA >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Is this Abraham Daniel(1763-1832) mentioned as son-in-law to James >> >> >> Cooper? >> >> >> Abraham married Jane Moore, ca 1796? Their first child was born >> >> >> 1797. >> >> >> He >> >> >> was 33, when he married Jane Moore, so could have been married >> >> >> before.......to the daughter of James Cooper. Abraham is the son > of >> >> > Aaron >> >> >> Daniel RS (1735-1790) and Elizabeth Whitfield(1740-1804). >> >> >> >> >> >> Judy Garner >> >> >> Sebring,FL >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> >> >> >> To: <DANIEL-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:40 AM >> >> >> Subject: [DANIEL-L] 1818 will of James COOPER of Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Good Morning, >> >> >> > I thought this was a very interesting will since a James COOPER >> >> > supposedly >> >> >> > married Elizabeth DANIEL, d/o Rev. Thomas DANIEL and Sarah BURNEY > of >> >> >> Greene >> >> >> > County, GA. If so, what was an Abraham DANIEL doing on this will > as >> > a >> >> >> > son-in-law? We also know COOPER did not die in Greene County, GA > in >> >> > 1807, >> >> >> > as some suggest, but Baldwin County, GA in 1818 or so.... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Also, notice that BARNES listed in this will. That tends to tell > me >> >> >> either >> >> >> > that this DANIEL was from Edgecombe or Northampton County, NC. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > However, several interesting points in all of this -- Abraham was > an >> >> >> > IOW >> >> >> > DANIEL name, BARNES is an IOW DANIEL collateral and this DANIEL >> >> >> > bunch >> >> > sure >> >> >> > looks like an IOW DANIEL family to me, but then, again..... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > <<< >> >> >> > Will Book A, Baldwin County, GA >> >> >> > >> >> >> > COOPER, JAMES 1/21/1812 - 3/2/1818 >> >> >> > Wife: not named >> >> >> > Children: Davis Cooper, Thomas Cooper, John Cooper, Milbry > McGintry, >> >> > Nancy >> >> >> > Barnes >> >> >> > Others mentioned: Son-in-law - Abraham Daniel; Nathaniel C. > Waller, >> >> > James >> >> >> > Rice, John Gill >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > John R. Clarke >> >> >> > Thomasville, GA >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> >> > IF YOU MISS ANY MESSAGE: You can easily search the DANIEL List >> > Archives >> >> >> at: >> >> >> > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=DANIEL >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> >> DO NOT FORGET: This is a Genealogical Mailing List and the posting > of >> >> > messages that do not relate to the DANIEL Family, its collateral >> > families >> >> > or >> >> > those of a historical nature relating to genealogical research -- >> >> > are >> > not >> >> > allowed on this list. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you > change >> >> > the subject of a reply message. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> >> If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > suggestion >> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >> > to >> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> > If you are have any problems receiving the DANIEL List, would like to >> > change your subscription method or email address or you have a > suggestion >> > you think would improve the operation of the DANIEL list -- feel free >> > to >> > contact me at any time - My email address is JClarke@rose.net >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== >> Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. >> > > > > ==== DANIEL Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to change the Subject line of your message when you change > the subject of a reply message. > >