From Karen Hobb and Joanna Donovan. These posts also would be in the mail archives (2000 and 2001). Elaine ***************** > A few issues back someone stated that the House Numbers were off the > churches > and Number 1 was perhaps the home of priests. I have two reletives that > the > father born 1691 died 1790 lived in Tetin #1 Bartolomej Kaucky, the son > Vaclav Kaucky, born 1736-died 1771 lived in house #3 Tetin. > I wonder what the story was, and if the above theory was correct? > Frank Kautsky > I am no expert on this subject but I know that some places did not have a chapel or church and the people attended services in another village/town. One parsonage served as many as 10 villages in the surrounding area that were part of the parish community. I believe that house numbers were first given in about 1770 -- they were given by the imperial census commission that visited every house in every village at that time. They were taking census to determine who was eligible for conscription. If a village/town had a chapel or church in 1770 they might have used that as a starting point for numbering but then you would expect the house numbers to follow one another in some sort of order. That generally is not the case -- the numbers in most villages are all mixed up with very few consecutively-numbered houses being next to each other. I understand that happened because the houses were numbered in the order in which they were built. There was a re-numbering of houses sometime after 1860 if I recall correctly -- maybe in the 1880s. If they still followed the old pattern of numbering based on the age of the house the re-numbering may have been necessary because some houses had been replaced or abandoned and torn down over time. All the maps I have of village layouts and location of house numbers in my Mies Heimatbuch (showing villages as they were in 1945) have very few houses that are numbered in a regular sequence. Most of them seem quite random as far as house numbers are concerned. Based on those maps I would tend to believe that there never was any attempt to make a numbering grid in these villages. My ancestral house number 21 in Slavice (Mariafels) is on a glazed tile set into the second floor stucco wall. The exisiting residence was built in the 1930s but the farm buildings are much older. All of the documents I have about my ancestors show that they already lived in house 21 in the 1770s and possibly earlier. The Sudeten Ortsbetreuer for Slavice tells me that that farmstead was always number 21. This makes me believe that the number on that house was never changed. ( I don't know what the official number is today.) The Bohemian villages were sometimes more or less cross or circular in shape and sometimes long and narrow with a few side streets. It would have been difficult to establish a grid for numbering in most of them. Larger towns and cities may have a grid system with consecutive numbers now, but I suspect that the original numbering system may not have been based on a grid even in those places. Karen ********* I recently returned from a trip to the Czech Republic and the houses in the villages are numbered in what would appear to be a haphazard manner. We had to ride up and down the streets and lanes to find the homes of my ancestors. The suggestion that the houses were numbered as they were built makes sense to me. We found one house in Vcelnicka in which the front (and older) part was number 1 and the back part (an add-on used as a separate dwelling) was # 65. It was very helpful that the number of the house in which my ancestors were born was listed in the registers along with their other birth information. You can imagine my delight when we found that the house that was the birthplace of my great-grandmother, Josefa Vachuska, Slatina 28, was still occupied by the Vachuska family. Joana Stuchlik Donovan

Some time ago when I was forturnate to go to Czech Republic, a CZ lady in my little ancestoral village stated that the oldest house was #1, the next house built after it was #2, and so on. The Germans could not grasp the concept, or else it gave them a thorn in the side, so the Germans (according to this lady) renumbered the houses. After the occupation left, the people wanted to return to the original numbers so the houses are now numbered both ways to avoid even more confusion. Hope this helps. Teresa ----- Original Message ----- From: "List Administration" <chook@starpower.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:54 PM Subject: [CZ] House numbering > >From Karen Hobb and Joanna Donovan. These posts also would > be in the mail archives (2000 and 2001). > > Elaine > > ***************** > > > A few issues back someone stated that the House Numbers were off the > > churches > > and Number 1 was perhaps the home of priests. I have two reletives that > > the > > father born 1691 died 1790 lived in Tetin #1 Bartolomej Kaucky, the son > > Vaclav Kaucky, born 1736-died 1771 lived in house #3 Tetin. > > I wonder what the story was, and if the above theory was correct? > > Frank Kautsky > > > > I am no expert on this subject but I know that some places did not have a > chapel or church and the people attended services in another village/town. > One parsonage served as many as 10 villages in the surrounding area that were > part of the parish community. I believe that house numbers were first given > in about 1770 -- they were given by the imperial census commission that > visited every house in every village at that time. They were taking census > to determine who was eligible for conscription. > > If a village/town had a chapel or church in 1770 they might have used that as > a starting point for numbering but then you would expect the house numbers to > follow one another in some sort of order. That generally is not the case -- > the numbers in most villages are all mixed up with very few > consecutively-numbered houses being next to each other. I understand that > happened because the houses were numbered in the order in which they were > built. > > There was a re-numbering of houses sometime after 1860 if I recall correctly > -- maybe in the 1880s. If they still followed the old pattern of numbering > based on the age of the house the re-numbering may have been necessary > because some houses had been replaced or abandoned and torn down over time. > > All the maps I have of village layouts and location of house numbers in my > Mies Heimatbuch (showing villages as they were in 1945) have very few houses > that are numbered in a regular sequence. Most of them seem quite random as > far as house numbers are concerned. Based on those maps I would tend to > believe that there never was any attempt to make a numbering grid in these > villages. > > My ancestral house number 21 in Slavice (Mariafels) is on a glazed tile set > into the second floor stucco wall. The exisiting residence was built in the > 1930s but the farm buildings are much older. All of the documents I have > about my ancestors show that they already lived in house 21 in the 1770s and > possibly earlier. The Sudeten Ortsbetreuer for Slavice tells me that that > farmstead was always number 21. This makes me believe that the number on > that house was never changed. ( I don't know what the official number is > today.) > > The Bohemian villages were sometimes more or less cross or circular in shape > and sometimes long and narrow with a few side streets. It would have been > difficult to establish a grid for numbering in most of them. > > Larger towns and cities may have a grid system with consecutive numbers now, > but I suspect that the original numbering system may not have been based on a > grid even in those places. > > Karen > > ********* > > > I recently returned from a trip to the Czech Republic and the houses in the > villages are numbered in what would appear to be a haphazard manner. We had > to ride up and down the streets and lanes to find the homes of my ancestors. > The suggestion that the houses were numbered as they were built makes sense > to me. We found one house in Vcelnicka in which the front (and older) part > was number 1 and the back part (an add-on used as a separate dwelling) was # > 65. > > It was very helpful that the number of the house in which my ancestors were > born was listed in the registers along with their other birth information. > You can imagine my delight when we found that the house that was the > birthplace of my great-grandmother, Josefa Vachuska, Slatina 28, was still > occupied by the Vachuska family. > > Joana Stuchlik Donovan > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > The mailing list is configured to reply only to the list. If you are making a personal reply to a poster, it will be necessary to delete the list address and add the individual's address. >