To: Czech Mail List Martin Pytr is listed as a professional researcher at the CZECH Mail List web site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/Czech_Researchers.htm The link to this page is found on the home page: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: Martin Pytr I, like many others, have had an interest in accessing land records and the other records described by Karel Kysilka: http://members.tripod.com/~zlimpkk/Genealogy/brnoarchives.html Can you make a general statement about the differences between the records held by the main archives in Prague and Brno compared to the district archives? Are the district archives more complete for that region. Secondly, how difficult is it to locate these records in a given archive compared to the Vital Registers? Does it taker many days of searching to find one family or are there indexes available at trhe archive to locate these records easily? Lastly, how extensive are these holdings on a percentage basis? For example, I have a family that lived in Nasedlovice, Moravia and they apparently were members of a Protestant Evangelical sect. Registries for the Evangelical parish (and all Catholic registries) were searched but did not provide any vital records on this one particular family. Would land records provide information about this family circa 1800 and would they be in Brno? Personally, thank you for responding to the question because this topic has been brought up many time before with no informative discussions. Ron Mlejnek At 12:56 PM 07/07/2004, you wrote: >Dear Carl, > >My name is Martin Pytr, I am a full-time researcher and I live at northern >Moravia. >Several times I worked with land records, stored at Zemsky Archiv at Opava, >where are stored records from northern Moravia and Czech Silesia. >Land records as resources for genealogy was on of my presentations at CGSI >conference at Houston, last year (www.cgsi.org) > >------ >Land registers are stored in the Regional State Archives. Records described >mainly the changes of the holders of farmsteads, houses and and another >immovables. The records tells not only about the succession of farmstead >holders by the time but often also about their material relations and duties >to the parents and siblings. New holder had to pay to siblings their parts >and also to care about the former holders, who were mostly his parents. >In the land registers are also written a lot of interesting facts about the >prices of the properties (what were in different numbers and curency, and >changed during the times), numbers and kinds of domestic animals and fruit >trees hold by the farmstead holder, bout their taxes, debts and heritages, >about the drudgery and another obligations of the peasant to the landlords. >Land registers sometimes referred also about destroyed and deserted >farmsteads as the consequences of wars or natural disasters. Another >interesting fact what the land registers refering about, is problem of the >escaping peasants. It happened sometimes that the holder left his farmstead >and escaped to the another domain. It was mainly for the debts but sometimes >also for too high number of obligation in drudgery or for confessional >oppression. >Land registers are written in Czech and German languages, since the end of >the 18th century the records were written in German language also in Czech >speaking areas. >------- > >If you wish I can send you some examples of land records. >I am also ready to research in the land registers for you. > >Martin Pytr >Potocni 381 >MORKOV 742 72 >Czech Republic > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carl Linert" <carlgenlnrt@yahoo.com> >To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:25 PM >Subject: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > > > > I will post this message again. Hope to get some > > responses this time. > > > > Has anybody on the list ever researched the land > > records from the Czech archives, particularly in the > > Northern Moravia area? Just curious about > > how useful they are in genealogical research. > > > > Thanks, > > Carl > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > ______________________________ > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively >handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal >problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an >email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate >for list discussion.

Dear Ron, 1) The "main archives" (Regional State Archives) in the Czech Republic are called Státní Oblastní Archiv (SOA) or Zemsky Archiv (ZA): SOA Prague - Central Bohemia SOA Litomerice - Northern Bohemia SOA Trebon - Southern Bohemia SOA Zámrsk - Eastern Bohemia SOA Plzen - Western Bohemia ZA Brno - Southern Moravia ZA Opava - Northern Moravia and Silesia In the mentioned regional archives are stored the most imporatant resources for genealogists: -Church vital registers (birth, wedding and death records) -Land registers (I already described in my previous contribution) There is possible to find also various another resources but it is hard to list it all.But very usefull are the Fonds of the Domains (fondy velkostatku). To this Fond belonged also the mentioned Land registers but there are listed more resources, some of them are also helpfull to genealogy (books of wedding contracts etc.). It is necessery to know to which Domain belonged the homeplace of your ancestors, but in the archives are inventary where is posssible to find it. But the situation in different domains is different. For example in the fond of the domain Lipnik (ZA Opava) are stored land records of Lipnik since 1488 but the oldest land records in the domain Kaderin (ZA Opava) are dated since 1803, only. District archives are called Okresní Archiv. District archives are located in district capital towns (all of them are listed here: http://www.mesta-obce.cz includes the map of the administrative division). There is also possible to find interesting information about ancestors but differences among the various district archives are bigger than differences among SOAs. In District Archives, I am usually searching for census records. For researchers are available following records, there: 1857 - Census of Austrian Empire 1869 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1880 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1890 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1900 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1910 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1921 - Census of Czechoslovakia NOTE: Relative big number of the Census Registers were missed! It means that for my home village Morkov (Okresni archiv Novy Jicin) are missed data from census 1857, for Vratimov (Okresni archiv Frydek-Mistek) are available census data since 1910, for Komorni Lhotka (Okresni archiv Karvina) were all the census data missed. Census records were sorted by the numbered houses, and it is possible to get following data about the persons living there: Name and Surname Date of Birth Relation to the housekeeper Family Status Religion (Denomination) Literacy Occupation Birthplace Number and kinds of the domestic animals Census records as resources for genealogy was one of my presentations at CGSI conference at Houston, last year (www.cgsi.org) Generally the searching in District Archives is a kind of lottery. What is possible to get in one archive, in another archives is missed and vice versa. In Okresni archiv Frydek-Mistek are even stored passport requests of the people who emigrated to America, but in the district archives of Novy Jicin and Vsetin are this kind of data missed. 2) Comparing the researching in vital registers and land records Researching in land records is more difficult and needs an experienced researcher. Researcher needs to know the read the ancient handwritten script and to read German. Yes, in vital registers it is also necessery but there is only a few terms what is sufficient to know: father, mother, farmer, miller, son, daughter etc. But Land records are written in difficult archic sentences, and some terms are written in local German dialects, a lot of archaic terms are difficult to find in dictionaries. From the another hand when your ancestors lived in one house for several centuries, you can see all the generations of the owners there. Land registers are written in Czech and German languages. Since the end of the 18th century the records were written in the German language also in Czech speaking areas. Researching in the Land registers requires an experieced researcher, not only because of the various languages and the ancient handwritten script. A larger problem exists with the ancient terms and units used in the registers. Units of area, volume and currency were different, not only in various time periods, but even in the various regions. To show the complications in the currency until the end of 18th century I prepared some examples. 1 guilder in Bohemia means 30 krejcar, but in Silesia it was 33 krejcars. Can you imagine paying 100 cents for $1 in Texas, 90 cents in Minnesota and 110 cents in California? A similar situation existed also in the system of the units of area, length, weight and volume. 3) Land records of Nasedlovice had to be in ZA Brno. To know more about it is necessery to contact the archive, there. More about Czech arvives (in Czech) is on the website of the Czech Ministry of Inner Affairs here: www.mvcr.cz/archivy All the best, Martin Pytr Potocni 381 742 72 MORKOV Czech Republic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Mlejnek" <rvmlejnek@navix.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [CZ] Re: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > To: Czech Mail List > > Martin Pytr is listed as a professional researcher at the CZECH Mail List > web site: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/Czech_Researchers.htm > > The link to this page is found on the home page: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/index.htm > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------- > > To: Martin Pytr > > I, like many others, have had an interest in accessing land records and the > other records described by Karel Kysilka: > > http://members.tripod.com/~zlimpkk/Genealogy/brnoarchives.html > > Can you make a general statement about the differences between the records > held by the main archives in Prague and Brno compared to the district > archives? Are the district archives more complete for that region. > > Secondly, how difficult is it to locate these records in a given archive > compared to the Vital Registers? Does it taker many days of searching to > find one family or are there indexes available at trhe archive to locate > these records easily? > > Lastly, how extensive are these holdings on a percentage basis? For > example, I have a family that lived in Nasedlovice, Moravia and they > apparently were members of a Protestant Evangelical sect. Registries for > the Evangelical parish (and all Catholic registries) were searched but did > not provide any vital records on this one particular family. Would land > records provide information about this family circa 1800 and would they be > in Brno? > > Personally, thank you for responding to the question because this topic has > been brought up many time before with no informative discussions. > > Ron Mlejnek > > At 12:56 PM 07/07/2004, you wrote: > > >Dear Carl, > > > >My name is Martin Pytr, I am a full-time researcher and I live at northern > >Moravia. > >Several times I worked with land records, stored at Zemsky Archiv at Opava, > >where are stored records from northern Moravia and Czech Silesia. > >Land records as resources for genealogy was on of my presentations at CGSI > >conference at Houston, last year (www.cgsi.org) > > > >------ > >Land registers are stored in the Regional State Archives. Records described > >mainly the changes of the holders of farmsteads, houses and and another > >immovables. The records tells not only about the succession of farmstead > >holders by the time but often also about their material relations and duties > >to the parents and siblings. New holder had to pay to siblings their parts > >and also to care about the former holders, who were mostly his parents. > >In the land registers are also written a lot of interesting facts about the > >prices of the properties (what were in different numbers and curency, and > >changed during the times), numbers and kinds of domestic animals and fruit > >trees hold by the farmstead holder, bout their taxes, debts and heritages, > >about the drudgery and another obligations of the peasant to the landlords. > >Land registers sometimes referred also about destroyed and deserted > >farmsteads as the consequences of wars or natural disasters. Another > >interesting fact what the land registers refering about, is problem of the > >escaping peasants. It happened sometimes that the holder left his farmstead > >and escaped to the another domain. It was mainly for the debts but sometimes > >also for too high number of obligation in drudgery or for confessional > >oppression. > >Land registers are written in Czech and German languages, since the end of > >the 18th century the records were written in German language also in Czech > >speaking areas. > >------- > > > >If you wish I can send you some examples of land records. > >I am also ready to research in the land registers for you. > > > >Martin Pytr > >Potocni 381 > >MORKOV 742 72 > >Czech Republic > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Carl Linert" <carlgenlnrt@yahoo.com> > >To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:25 PM > >Subject: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > > > > > > > I will post this message again. Hope to get some > > > responses this time. > > > > > > Has anybody on the list ever researched the land > > > records from the Czech archives, particularly in the > > > Northern Moravia area? Just curious about > > > how useful they are in genealogical research. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > >All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > >handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > >problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > >email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > >for list discussion. >