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    1. Re: [CZ] John
    2. john

    3. Ok As for MY case, my great grandfather was born Vaclav, at least according to the immigrant passenger ship record from the SS Frisia, which is the ship on which my great grandparents and two of their four sons came to America. ANYWAY, that being said, great grandpa's name eventually changed to Wincel, when he was in America. Just a little tidbit from my Wisconsin roots. John in Michigan J. Pecenka wrote: > Hi, Mark. > > The Czech List archives provide ample evidence of differing points of > view on the translation of Vaclav. I think all would agree that those > who were named Vaclav had the right upon arrival in this country, to > choose to be called by whatever name pleased them, or by a name chosen > for them by some Ellis Island clerk or someone else. Many Vaclavs > chose the name James. That was a matter of personal choice and history. > > As a matter of fact and academic sources, however, Vaclav continues to > translate to Wenceslaus (as in the Christmas carol about Good King > Wenceslaus) in both German and English. > > As noted to you by others, John translates to the Czech "Jan," > pronounced as the "yon" in yonder (a few degrees of separation from > yawn). > > Joe > DeKalb, IL > > Mark Allen wrote: > >> >> >> Friends, >> >> >> >> As Vaclav translates from Bohemian to English as James what does >> >> John in English translate back into Bohemian? >> >> >> >> Is John considered John in both? Is there a spelling variation? >> >> (i.e. Jon vs. John?) >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> >> >> Mark Zapotocky >> >> >> >> Researching the Zapotocky and Labruska surnames in Belleville, IL >> >> beginning 1908. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >> Czech Message Boards are at >> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > If you'd like to search our archives, please visit > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CZECH > >

    03/27/2006 03:15:11
    1. Re: [CZ] John

    3. Wenzel is the German form of Vaclav. -----Original Message----- From: john <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:15:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [CZ] John Ok As for MY case, my great grandfather was born Vaclav, at least according to the immigrant passenger ship record from the SS Frisia, which is the ship on which my great grandparents and two of their four sons came to America. ANYWAY, that being said, great grandpa's name eventually changed to Wincel, when he was in America. Just a little tidbit from my Wisconsin roots. John in Michigan J. Pecenka wrote: > Hi, Mark. > > The Czech List archives provide ample evidence of differing points of > view on the translation of Vaclav. I think all would agree that those > who were named Vaclav had the right upon arrival in this country, to > choose to be called by whatever name pleased them, or by a name chosen > for them by some Ellis Island clerk or someone else. Many Vaclavs > chose the name James. That was a matter of personal choice and history. > > As a matter of fact and academic sources, however, Vaclav continues to > translate to Wenceslaus (as in the Christmas carol about Good King > Wenceslaus) in both German and English. > > As noted to you by others, John translates to the Czech "Jan," > pronounced as the "yon" in yonder (a few degrees of separation from > yawn). > > Joe > DeKalb, IL > > Mark Allen wrote: > >> >> >> Friends, >> >> >> >> As Vaclav translates from Bohemian to English as James what does >> >> John in English translate back into Bohemian? >> >> >> >> Is John considered John in both? Is there a spelling variation? >> >> (i.e. Jon vs. John?) >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> >> >> Mark Zapotocky >> >> >> >> Researching the Zapotocky and Labruska surnames in Belleville, IL >> >> beginning 1908. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >> Czech Message Boards are at >> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > If you'd like to search our archives, please visit > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CZECH > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate for list discussion.

    03/27/2006 04:48:03
    1. Re: [CZ] John
    2. J. Pecenka

    3. Wenzel is the German diminutive of Wenceslaus. It is not a translation of Vaclav. Similarly, in Slovak, Jozko is the diminutive of Jozef; in English, Joey is the diminutive of Joseph; or Josh is the diminutive of Joshua. The definition of "diminutive" is worth looking up in the dictionary. [email protected] wrote: > Wenzel is the German form of Vaclav. > > -----Original Message----- > From: john <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:15:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [CZ] John > > Ok As for MY case, my great grandfather was born Vaclav, at least > according to the immigrant passenger ship record from the SS Frisia, > which is the ship on which my great grandparents and two of their four > sons came to America. ANYWAY, that being said, great grandpa's name > eventually changed to Wincel, when he was in America. Just a little > tidbit from my Wisconsin roots. > John in Michigan > > J. Pecenka wrote: > > > Hi, Mark. > > > > The Czech List archives provide ample evidence of differing points > of > view on the translation of Vaclav. I think all would agree that > those > who were named Vaclav had the right upon arrival in this > country, to > choose to be called by whatever name pleased them, or by > a name chosen > for them by some Ellis Island clerk or someone else. > Many Vaclavs > chose the name James. That was a matter of personal > choice and history. > > > > As a matter of fact and academic sources, however, Vaclav continues > to > translate to Wenceslaus (as in the Christmas carol about Good King > >> Wenceslaus) in both German and English. > > > > > As noted to you by others, John translates to the Czech "Jan," > > pronounced as the "yon" in yonder (a few degrees of separation from > > yawn). > > > > Joe > > DeKalb, IL > > > > Mark Allen wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Friends, > >> > >> > >> > >> As Vaclav translates from Bohemian to English as James what does > >> > >> John in English translate back into Bohemian? > >> > >> > >> > >> Is John considered John in both? Is there a spelling variation? > >> > >> (i.e. Jon vs. John?) > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks for any help. > >> > >> > >> > >> Mark Zapotocky > >> > >> > >> > >> Researching the Zapotocky and Labruska surnames in Belleville, IL > >> > >> beginning 1908. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > >> Czech Message Boards are at > >> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > If you'd like to search our archives, please visit > > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CZECH > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > for list discussion. > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > Contact [email protected] for list related problems > For the CZECH-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/czech > > >

    03/27/2006 05:43:24
    1. Re: [CZ] John
    2. john dvorak

    3. are we saying, here, that the naturalization papers that I received last year are not my great grandfather, AFTER ALL??? The papers were signed 4 times, as Vaclav DVORAK, plain as day......does that mean that those are not my great grandfather? I'm shocked...I guess it's back to square one. sigh --- "J. Pecenka" <[email protected]> wrote: > Wenzel is the German diminutive of Wenceslaus. It is > not a translation > of Vaclav. > > Similarly, in Slovak, Jozko is the diminutive of > Jozef; in English, Joey > is the diminutive of Joseph; or Josh is the > diminutive of Joshua. The > definition of "diminutive" is worth looking up in > the dictionary. > > > [email protected] wrote: > > > Wenzel is the German form of Vaclav. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: john <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:15:11 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [CZ] John > > > > Ok As for MY case, my great grandfather was born > Vaclav, at least > > according to the immigrant passenger ship record > from the SS Frisia, > > which is the ship on which my great grandparents > and two of their four > > sons came to America. ANYWAY, that being said, > great grandpa's name > > eventually changed to Wincel, when he was in > America. Just a little > > tidbit from my Wisconsin roots. > > John in Michigan > > > > J. Pecenka wrote: > > > > > Hi, Mark. > > > > > > The Czech List archives provide ample evidence > of differing points > > of > view on the translation of Vaclav. I think > all would agree that > > those > who were named Vaclav had the right upon > arrival in this > > country, to > choose to be called by whatever name > pleased them, or by > > a name chosen > for them by some Ellis Island > clerk or someone else. > > Many Vaclavs > chose the name James. That was a > matter of personal > > choice and history. > > > > > > As a matter of fact and academic sources, > however, Vaclav continues > > to > translate to Wenceslaus (as in the Christmas > carol about Good King > > > >> Wenceslaus) in both German and English. > > > > > > > > As noted to you by others, John translates to > the Czech "Jan," > > > pronounced as the "yon" in yonder (a few degrees > of separation from > > > yawn). > > > > > > Joe > > > DeKalb, IL > > > > > > Mark Allen wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> Friends, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> As Vaclav translates from Bohemian to English > as James what does > > >> > > >> John in English translate back into Bohemian? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Is John considered John in both? Is there a > spelling variation? > > >> > > >> (i.e. Jon vs. John?) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks for any help. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Mark Zapotocky > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Researching the Zapotocky and Labruska surnames > in Belleville, IL > > >> > > >> beginning 1908. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > >> Czech Message Boards are at > > >> > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > > If you'd like to search our archives, please > visit > > > > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CZECH > > > > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > All matters pertaining to list administration are > exclusively > > handled by the List Administrator. If you have > personal > > problems, questions or suggestions about list mail > send an > > email to the administrator. The subject is not > appropriate > > for list discussion. > > > > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > > > mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe > (list mode) or > > > mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe > (digest mode) > > Contact [email protected] for list related > problems > > For the CZECH-L archives, go to > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/czech > > > > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe > (list mode) or > mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe > (digest mode) > Contact [email protected] for list related > problems > For the CZECH-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/czech > >

    03/27/2006 09:02:13