Thanks! awesome information. Kevin Kittilson wrote: >John wrote: > > > >>Would we be wrong in assuming that Bohemians are just German Czechs? >> >> >I have read that Bohmen is the German word for Czech, in the Wikipedia >encyclopedia.< > >Yes, the assumption would be wrong. > >Boehmen is simply the German-language form of the term "Bohemia". >("boehmisch", which you will also see, is the adjective, ie., Bohemian) > >The german terms refer to the place, and to people who are citizens >of that place, without regard for their ethnic or language affiliations. > >Bohemia was part of the Austrian empire, and the official language >of the empire was German. Accordingly, all Bohemians, regardless >whether they were czech-speaking or german-speaking, carried >passports which indicated they were from "Boehmen." (Assuming >of course that they left with official permission and had a passport >or travel pass). > >There was no official acknowledgment of the term "czech" in >the austrian empire. > >Thus before the end of WWI even the czech-speaking inhabitants of >Bohemia were officially "boehmisch" and lived in "Boehmen". To make >matters more complicated, many czech-speaking Bohemians coming to >the US had at least a rudimentary knowledge of german, and may also >have used the german terms themselves under appropriate circumstances, >such as, perhaps, if giving information to a german-american court clerk >in Milwaukee. > >During the 19th and early 20th century, the same period in which the >greatest emigration to the US from Bohemia took place, the idea of >czech nationalism slowly grew, both in the old country and among those >immigrants who maintained an interest in political events back home. >To describe yourself in english as "czech" rather than "bohemian" was, >in a sense, to assert support for a separate "czech" nationality. Thus >its use would have been unlikely among Bohemians of german language >or ethnicity. The use of the term "czech" I think probably increased >greatly among czech-american groups after the czech lands became the >focus of an international crisis when Hitler demanded that Czechoslovakia >be dismembered and the areas in Bohemia and Moravia with large german- >speaking populations be handed to him to be incorporated into the 3rd >Reich. > >This was accomplished in 1938 when Britain and France cut a deal with >Germany that they would not intervene while the German Wehrmacht >rolled into Czechoslovakia, in return for Hitler's promise that he would >not make further territorial demands, thus affording, in the famous >words of British prime minister Neville Chamberlain, "Peace in our Time". >While the other world powers looked the other way, Nazi Germany not >only annexed the Sudetenland areas, but reduced Bohemia, Moravia >and Slovakia more or less to slave labor "protectorates" run by the forces >of Nazi occupation. > >World War II broke out the following year when Germany broke the >deal with England and France and invaded Poland as well. > > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively >handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal >problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an >email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate >for list discussion. > > > >

When you say Czechy, you say the CZ with the throat, right? That's the way I've been saying it john wrote: > Thanks! awesome information. > > > Kevin Kittilson wrote: > >> John wrote: >> >> >> >>> Would we be wrong in assuming that Bohemians are just German >>> Czechs? >> >> I have read that Bohmen is the German word for Czech, in the >> Wikipedia encyclopedia.< >> >> Yes, the assumption would be wrong. >> >> Boehmen is simply the German-language form of the term "Bohemia". >> ("boehmisch", which you will also see, is the adjective, ie., Bohemian) >> >> The german terms refer to the place, and to people who are citizens >> of that place, without regard for their ethnic or language affiliations. >> >> Bohemia was part of the Austrian empire, and the official language of >> the empire was German. Accordingly, all Bohemians, regardless >> whether they were czech-speaking or german-speaking, carried >> passports which indicated they were from "Boehmen." (Assuming of >> course that they left with official permission and had a passport or >> travel pass). >> There was no official acknowledgment of the term "czech" in >> the austrian empire. >> >> Thus before the end of WWI even the czech-speaking inhabitants of >> Bohemia were officially "boehmisch" and lived in "Boehmen". To make >> matters more complicated, many czech-speaking Bohemians coming to the >> US had at least a rudimentary knowledge of german, and may also have >> used the german terms themselves under appropriate circumstances, >> such as, perhaps, if giving information to a german-american court clerk >> in Milwaukee. >> During the 19th and early 20th century, the same period in which the >> greatest emigration to the US from Bohemia took place, the idea of >> czech nationalism slowly grew, both in the old country and among those >> immigrants who maintained an interest in political events back home. >> To describe yourself in english as "czech" rather than "bohemian" >> was, in a sense, to assert support for a separate "czech" >> nationality. Thus its use would have been unlikely among Bohemians >> of german language >> or ethnicity. The use of the term "czech" I think probably >> increased greatly among czech-american groups after the czech lands >> became the focus of an international crisis when Hitler demanded that >> Czechoslovakia be dismembered and the areas in Bohemia and Moravia >> with large german- >> speaking populations be handed to him to be incorporated into the 3rd >> Reich. >> This was accomplished in 1938 when Britain and France cut a deal with >> Germany that they would not intervene while the German Wehrmacht >> rolled into Czechoslovakia, in return for Hitler's promise that he would >> not make further territorial demands, thus affording, in the famous >> words of British prime minister Neville Chamberlain, "Peace in our >> Time". While the other world powers looked the other way, Nazi >> Germany not only annexed the Sudetenland areas, but reduced Bohemia, >> Moravia and Slovakia more or less to slave labor "protectorates" run >> by the forces of Nazi occupation. >> >> World War II broke out the following year when Germany broke the >> deal with England and France and invaded Poland as well. >> >> >> >> >> ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >> All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively >> handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal >> problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an >> email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate >> for list discussion. >> >> >> >> > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > Czech Message Boards are at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic > >