Oh, yes, by all means, Lorraine. NEVER ignore any possibility, even those that seem almost bizarre, when searching for family. I have seen people here and elsewhere lock out possibilities because they simply will not consider other spellings. It is a serious mistake. The demand for accuracy in surnames is a very new thing. Our grandparents and great-grandparents did not much care how records were completed or what someone put down on a form. Those of us who have located forms, newspaper obits, entries in the census, etc. are well aware of that. Elaine A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers. --Mencken Hello Lorraine On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > I think you must look at all kinds of spellings -- as an example, my > father's name which is listed on the Ellis Island database is spelled > "Josef Salon" and I understand that "Salon" is the correct spelling (needs > a hacek over the S) while on his naturalization > documents and in two of the > three federal census records, it is spelled "Shallon" -- now I think that > the phonetic spelling came when he went to begin his naturalization > process. Only on the 1920 federal census records is his name > spelled: "Shawlon" and I believe it must have been the way the person > spelling the name for the census taker said "double L" which must have come > out "W L" -- or at least sounded like that to the census taker!! > I have the same problem with my husband's Chenault ancestors -- three of > four different spellings on that one -- some with the CH and some with the > SH and they are the same family -- by all of the information for them from > one census to the other. > Just my thoughts > Lorraine Shallon/Salon Moore > Baton Rouge, LA

Well, Woody, maybe the fare was cheaper for a 9 year old than a 12 year old.

Mine are not in Baca either, Sandy. I assume it is the luck of the draw. I don't believe Germans to America or Leo Baca suggest the listings are 100% complete. Elaine Hello Sandy On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > Could anyone tell me what criteria were used to select people for inclusion > in Leo Baca's series? I have dozens of Czech relatives who came over at > various times, but I have found hardly a one in these books. > True, some of these relatives stopped in Russia for a few years after > leaving Moravia and before reaching American shores. But the passenger lists > reflected their nationality and obvious Czech surnames. Would these Czechs > from Russia have been excluded from the books? > Also, if anyone out there is researching lines who lived in Czech > settlements in Russia for awhile, I would be very interested in > corresponding with you about your research experiences. > Sandy Miller

Gordon, have you ever discovered if that age difference made a major difference in passenger fare? Elaine Hello groots04 On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > And phonetic spellings, too. > My ancestor from Bohemia who came through Ellis Island has "Btrubau” > written in his place of origin, which to most Americans is meaningless. > But my researcher saw it as a shortened form of Bohmische Trubau, which > was the old (Germanic) form of Ceska Trebova. > And for some reason his age on the manifest was 9, but he was actually > 12 (traveling without any other family members). > Gordon

I suspect it is the old handwriting more than the pronunciations making transcription difficult. There have been numerous suggestions that the stories we fondly believe about changes of names at the receiving stations are actually not true. An example of reading old writing is illustrated by the fact that one entry for my family indicates Aruba (great place, but Curacao is nicer) rather than Austria for my family's country of origin <smile>. I am well aware that by 1870 my family already had adopted an Americanization of their Bohemian surnames (incredibly, my paternal and maternal lines BOTH changed their names to American versions/translations of the Czech "words"). Those names stuck but it was strictly their own doing. Elaine Researching Slepicka a/k/a Chicken and Hruska a/k/a Pear Hello Mrbkdb112 On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > Woody, the biggest reason for information being wrong on the passenger lists > is that our ancestors did not speak English, so even if they were asked to > spell the name it didn't help. Also, the pronunciation would sound different, so > I can understand why there were mistakes. I'm amazed that the surname stayed > the same in my case. > Millie

I think you must look at all kinds of spellings -- as an example, my father's name which is listed on the Ellis Island database is spelled "Josef Salon" and I understand that "Salon" is the correct spelling (needs a hacek over the S) while on his naturalization documents and in two of the three federal census records, it is spelled "Shallon" -- now I think that the phonetic spelling came when he went to begin his naturalization process. Only on the 1920 federal census records is his name spelled: "Shawlon" and I believe it must have been the way the person spelling the name for the census taker said "double L" which must have come out "W L" -- or at least sounded like that to the census taker!! I have the same problem with my husband's Chenault ancestors -- three of four different spellings on that one -- some with the CH and some with the SH and they are the same family -- by all of the information for them from one census to the other. Just my thoughts Lorraine Shallon/Salon Moore Baton Rouge, LA At 11:57 AM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I suspect it is the old handwriting more than the >pronunciations making transcription difficult. There have >I am well aware that by 1870 my family already had adopted >an Americanization of their Bohemian surnames (incredibly, >my paternal and maternal lines BOTH changed their names to >American versions/translations of the Czech "words"). Those >names stuck but it was strictly their own doing. > >Elaine >Researching Slepicka a/k/a Chicken and Hruska a/k/a Pear > > > >Hello Mrbkdb112 > >On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > > > > > Woody, the biggest reason for information being wrong on the passenger > lists > > is that our ancestors did not speak English, so even if they were asked to > > spell the name it didn't help. Also, the pronunciation would sound > different, so > > I can understand why there were mistakes. I'm amazed that the surname > stayed > > the same in my case. > > > Millie > > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >Czech Message Boards are at >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic

I hadn't thought of that. I was surprised to find him in cabin rather than steerage though. The ship was rather empty though, with less than 150 passengers on a ship that could handle over 2000. On Mar 30, 2004, at 10:58 AM, ETM wrote: > Gordon, have you ever discovered if that age difference made > a major difference in passenger fare? > > Elaine > > Hello groots04 > > On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > >> And phonetic spellings, too. > >> My ancestor from Bohemia who came through Ellis Island has "Btrubau” >> written in his place of origin, which to most Americans is >> meaningless. >> But my researcher saw it as a shortened form of Bohmische Trubau, >> which >> was the old (Germanic) form of Ceska Trebova. > >> And for some reason his age on the manifest was 9, but he was actually >> 12 (traveling without any other family members). > >> Gordon

Woody, the biggest reason for information being wrong on the passenger lists is that our ancestors did not speak English, so even if they were asked to spell the name it didn't help. Also, the pronunciation would sound different, so I can understand why there were mistakes. I'm amazed that the surname stayed the same in my case. Millie

And phonetic spellings, too. My ancestor from Bohemia who came through Ellis Island has "Btrubau” written in his place of origin, which to most Americans is meaningless. But my researcher saw it as a shortened form of Bohmische Trubau, which was the old (Germanic) form of Ceska Trebova. And for some reason his age on the manifest was 9, but he was actually 12 (traveling without any other family members). Gordon On Mar 30, 2004, at 9:16 AM, Mrbkdb112@cs.com wrote: > > > Woody, the biggest reason for information being wrong on the passenger > lists > is that our ancestors did not speak English, so even if they were > asked to > spell the name it didn't help. Also, the pronunciation would sound > different, so > I can understand why there were mistakes. I'm amazed that the surname > stayed > the same in my case. > > Millie

The transcriptions, like transcriptions of any record, may contain errors. But you can register for free and view a large image of the actual manifest. You only have to pay to get a printed copy mailed to you. I'm not sure how responsive they are to corrections on their transcriptions or image links. Not sure if this has been posted recently or not, but this site has some alternate ways of searching Ellis Island, and other genealogy tools as well: http://stevemorse.org/ Gordon On Mar 30, 2004, at 7:47 AM, Woody Minar wrote: > A word of caution... don't believe everything you read on the Ellis > Island > website. I found the ship's registry of my mother, my aunt, and my > grandmother at the National Archives. I found their names on the Ellis > Island website, and the city from which they originated (Mandersajd) > was > something totally different on the website. As I recall, there was > some > other information that was wrong, too... but the listing was > definately my > relation! Just beware. > > Woody

Lillian, I believe I just went to google search engine and typed in Ellis Island and it came up. Then enter your relatives name. If you don't see it right away, enter other family members names. I found out some of my ancestors gave different given names than we knew .

I, too, have found many errors on the Ellis Island website. One instance, my relative was traveling in 1871. There was a link to "view this ship" which took you to a ship built in 1890 so obviously not the same ship, though it had the same name. Also, the link to view page source took you to a totally different record. I never did find the original record on their website. etc. etc. Just keep your eyes out for inconsistencies while you read ellisisland.org. Cassandra

A word of caution... don't believe everything you read on the Ellis Island website. I found the ship's registry of my mother, my aunt, and my grandmother at the National Archives. I found their names on the Ellis Island website, and the city from which they originated (Mandersajd) was something totally different on the website. As I recall, there was some other information that was wrong, too... but the listing was definately my relation! Just beware. Woody ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mrbkdb112@cs.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [CZ] Passenger Lists | | | Lillian, I believe I just went to google search engine and typed in Ellis | Island and it came up. Then enter your relatives name. If you don't see it right | away, enter other family members names. I found out some of my ancestors gave | different given names than we knew . | | | ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== | All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively | handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal | problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an | email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate | for list discussion. | | |

http://ellisislandrecords.org/ Teresa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lillian Bodker" <kidos4@webtv.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] Passenger Lists > Millie: What is > the website for Ellis Island? > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > Please do not repost the whole digest when replying to mail. >

Millie: What is the website for Ellis Island?

My thanks to Charles Smith for the huge amount of information he copied for me regarding the surnames Kos and Kostohryz. I am still interested in a listing that is supposed to be in Baca's Volume 5, p. 78 for a Franz Kostchranz. I am hoping that Charles or someone else who has access to this book would look this up for me. I need to know the date, ship, port, and if there were any other family members with him. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. Joanne

No I haven't. Thank you! Dyekuji, jsem osel. Woody ----- Original Message ----- From: "SANDY FAIRCHILD" <co_sandy@msn.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] Passenger Lists | Hello Woody, | Have you already explored the St. Albans Lists for immigrants who entered through Canada? They are on film at NARA and can be rented for a small fee. A couple of good sites for learning about this: | http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/poelist/CAN2.htm | and | http://www.webbitt.com/volga/border.htm | | Good Luck | Sandy | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: Woody Minar | Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:18 AM | To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com | Subject: Re: [CZ] Passenger Lists | | VERY GOOD QUESTION! | | I was able to find my mother's (Bozena Janacek) venture from Mandrsjad, | Czechoslovakia via Bremen and Southhampton to Ellis Island on the SS George | Washington in 1913 by going to the Naitonal Archives in D.C. | | However, my father's parents (Ludwig Mynarz and Anna Dzik) who came from | Horni Terlicko, Czechoslovakia are believed to have come via Nova Scotia | then on to Phillips, Wisconsin. But we don't know if the ship came to Ellis | Island, Philadelphia, or direct to Nova Scotia. Records are nonexistent in | my research. | | Woody Minar | MINAR/MYNAR/MYNARZ, DZIK/DICK, SKALA, JANACEK | | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: <Mrbkdb112@cs.com> | To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> | Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:49 AM | Subject: Re: [CZ] Passenger Lists | | | | | | | | How does one go about finding passenger lists that were prior to 1892, | Ellis | | Island? | | | | That is, when you don't have any facts to go on. I know they lived in | Pilsen, | | and came here in 1867, but that's all I know. I've tried researching on | line | | but with zero results. I'm beginning to think they swam over. | | | | Is there a listing in Bohemia where they would have applied to go to the | | U.S.? | | | | Millie...researching Herink,Stepan,Novotny,Vasik,Cherny,Svolba,Vostry | | | | | | ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== | | RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without | | permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use | | Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html. | | | | | | | ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== | RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without | permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use | Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html. | | | ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== | If you'd like to search our archives, please visit | http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CZECH | | |

Joanne, the information is: Kostchranz, Franz 34, Bohemia; HOENSTAUFEN, 4 June 1880- arrived into NY. That's it. Looks like he was alone, does not give village where he was from. Sorry. Do you have the copy of the page I sent...if so, would you please send to me or the list. I've cleaned my sent box and delete box out already. thanks, maggie smith (by the way, charles is my husband and has no interest in any genealogy - our email just has his name on it). ms ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanne Brown" <jb@tbcnet.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:17 PM Subject: [CZ] Baca Lookup--surname Kostchranz > My thanks to Charles Smith for the huge amount of information he copied > for me regarding the surnames Kos and Kostohryz. I am still interested > in a listing that is supposed to be in Baca's Volume 5, p. 78 for a > Franz Kostchranz. I am hoping that Charles or someone else who has > access to this book would look this up for me. I need to know the date, > ship, port, and if there were any other family members with him. Thanks > in advance to anyone who can help me. > Joanne > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > for list discussion. >

Wonderful....thank you ,Sandy....Millie

One of my ancestors left Hamburg on April 15, 1875 and arrived in New York on April 30, 1875. I'm sure the weather had a lot to do with crossing times in the early days.