My ancestors said they were Austrian so Bacca never picked them up. It may have happened often. jean

Ron, you are so right about the spelling changes when viewing Czech records. The research I received had many different spellings. I had records from Brno, Pilsen and Prague on various different lines. Some of the researchers did put alternative spellings in parenthesis but most did not. The oddest thing I found was that the villages had name changes over the years (many times). You would think that the village names would stay the same. The house numbers were kept. although if the house had been remodelled or torn down, then they had an old number and also a new number. Also, some of it was in Latin with their spelling, some in German, and the rest in Czech. It depended on where the priest came from at the time. I was really happy when it was Latin as it was so much easier to decipher. Millie

In a message dated 3/30/04 8:43:05 PM Central Standard Time, rvmlejnek@navix.net writes: > I have the same problem with my husband's Chenault ancestors -- three of > > > four different spellings on that one -- some with the CH and some with > the > > > SH and they are the same family -- by all of the information for them > from > > > one census to the other. > > > Not only do I have that problem, I have 9 siblings living here in the U.S.A., some spelling their name differently so that I have CERNI cousins, CERNY cousins, CERNEY cousins, and CHERNEY cousins, all children of my grandfather and his siblings, all from one family!! Annie in Minnesota

Hi There are microfilms available by year of all the immigration records prior to Elias Island. The FHCS have them and you can find which ones are for 1867 by checking on line. I got my Viduna ancestors for 1871 that way also my Englesman Ancestors cc 1892. The closer the year is to 1900 the more ships so if you have some idea of month it would help limit the number of microfilms you need to look at. Are they in the Baca books or the immigration index. Have you tried the Bremen or Hamburg ships lists sites? All are on web and have been given on the list before - look at the archives. This site gives passenger ships into NY http://community-2.webtv.net/mpetzolt2/nyarrivals/. You might also try the Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild http://immigrantships.org/ . In 1867 they mp came through Castle Island. Frances Hrdina ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mrbkdb112@cs.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [CZ] Passenger Lists > > > How does one go about finding passenger lists that were prior to 1892, Ellis > Island? > > That is, when you don't have any facts to go on. I know they lived in Pilsen, > and came here in 1867, but that's all I know. I've tried researching on line > but with zero results. I'm beginning to think they swam over. > > Is there a listing in Bohemia where they would have applied to go to the > U.S.? > > Millie...researching Herink,Stepan,Novotny,Vasik,Cherny,Svolba,Vostry > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without > permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use > Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html. >

At 09:55 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: >INot only do I have that problem, I have 9 siblings living here in the >U.S.A., >some spelling their name differently so that I have CERNI cousins, CERNY >cousins, CERNEY cousins, and CHERNEY cousins, all children of my >grandfather and >his siblings, all from one family!! A very good friend who has done his genealogy way back, written a family history book, and other genealogical books relative to LA spells his surname one way and his brother spells it another!!! WILLIE AND/OR WILLEY!!! Lorraine

It certainly did! All my Czech ancestors are excluded from the books for that very reason. They also claimed to be Austrian. Much homeland pride me thinks. Sandy Colorado ----- Original Message ----- From: jean horl Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:29 PM To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CZ] Bacca look ups My ancestors said they were Austrian so Bacca never picked them up. It may have happened often. jean ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of multiple messages) In the body include only one word: unsubscribe

Just so everyone is prepared, once you get over the hurdle of the Ellis Island (or any US Immigration Record) then you have the challenge of finding your ancestors in the Czech Republic. Every line I have searched has a name change between now and the late 1600's. How about Zajchowski to Cejkovsky for starters. Or Cermak to Czermak. You not only have regional dialects, but you also have records kept by Latin, German, and Czech priests. Then add the accent marks and you will be toatlly confused. Your Frank may be Frantisek or Franz depending on who recorded it. My cousin, who worked in the Brno Archives while attending college, said that Americans are obsessed with "properly" spelled names. The Czechs expect it and understand it with no problems whatsoever; they have lived with the "system' for over 500 years. Ron Mlejnek At 12:51 PM 03/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Oh, yes, by all means, Lorraine. NEVER ignore any >possibility, even those that seem almost bizarre, when >searching for family. I have seen people here and elsewhere >lock out possibilities because they simply will not consider >other spellings. It is a serious mistake. The demand for >accuracy in surnames is a very new thing. Our grandparents >and great-grandparents did not much care how records were >completed or what someone put down on a form. Those of us >who have located forms, newspaper obits, entries in the >census, etc. are well aware of that. > >Elaine > >A judge is a law student who marks his own examination >papers. --Mencken > >Hello Lorraine > >On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, you wrote > > > I think you must look at all kinds of spellings -- as an example, my > > father's name which is listed on the Ellis Island database is spelled > > "Josef Salon" and I understand that "Salon" is the correct spelling (needs > > a hacek over the S) while on his naturalization > > documents and in two of the > > three federal census records, it is spelled "Shallon" -- now I think that > > the phonetic spelling came when he went to begin his naturalization > > process. Only on the 1920 federal census records is his name > > spelled: "Shawlon" and I believe it must have been the way the person > > spelling the name for the census taker said "double L" which must have come > > out "W L" -- or at least sounded like that to the census taker!! > > > I have the same problem with my husband's Chenault ancestors -- three of > > four different spellings on that one -- some with the CH and some with the > > SH and they are the same family -- by all of the information for them from > > one census to the other. > > > Just my thoughts > > Lorraine Shallon/Salon Moore > > Baton Rouge, LA > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively >handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal >problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an >email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate >for list discussion.

Just for everyone's information, this Mail List has it's own website at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/index.htm I would suggest at least bookmarking it for a reference. If you look in the upper left hand corner, all the URLs for Ellis Island are listed plus some other stuff. Czech it out! At 10:19 PM 03/29/2004 -0500, Lillian Bodker wrote: >Millie: What is >the website for Ellis Island? > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >Please do not repost the whole digest when replying to mail.

Hi Joanne, I have volume 5 and on page 78 There is a Kostchranz,Franz 34,Bohemia, Hohenstaufen,4June1880 the port is New York and he was alone.Baca does not list the towns that the people were from. Hope this helps Regards, Pat in Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanne Brown" <jb@tbcnet.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:17 PM Subject: [CZ] Baca Lookup--surname Kostchranz > My thanks to Charles Smith for the huge amount of information he copied > for me regarding the surnames Kos and Kostohryz. I am still interested > in a listing that is supposed to be in Baca's Volume 5, p. 78 for a > Franz Kostchranz. I am hoping that Charles or someone else who has > access to this book would look this up for me. I need to know the date, > ship, port, and if there were any other family members with him. Thanks > in advance to anyone who can help me. > Joanne > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > for list discussion. >

Hi Leo, Would you be so kind as to respond to the Czech list - in regards to the question below. I've informed them that you will not be doing anymore volumes because of Heritage Quest not renting the film any longer. I also haven't sent you the check for the book you noticed me on....going to, just haven't taken the time. I'm doing it this week though, because I'm on vacation. Thanks, Leo. Maggie Smith in CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Miller" <member1326@grischavision.ch> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:17 AM Subject: [CZ] Why aren't my ancestors in Baca's books > Could anyone tell me what criteria were used to select people for inclusion > in Leo Baca's series? I have dozens of Czech relatives who came over at > various times, but I have found hardly a one in these books. > > True, some of these relatives stopped in Russia for a few years after > leaving Moravia and before reaching American shores. But the passenger lists > reflected their nationality and obvious Czech surnames. Would these Czechs > from Russia have been excluded from the books? > > Also, if anyone out there is researching lines who lived in Czech > settlements in Russia for awhile, I would be very interested in > corresponding with you about your research experiences. > > Sandy Miller > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: > CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of multiple messages) > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe >

Another "Lister" provided this web page: http://stevemorse.org/ Steve Morse has provided ways to get around the gross number of errors in the Ellis Island transcriptions. For example, it is commonplace to find the correct name but no manifest or the wrong manifest. Usually you end up on the wrong ship! The linkages between the names and the manifests are improperly coded. By using Steve Morse's search forms (which take some practice) you can locate the correct list for the correct ship on the correct date of arrival and go through page by page until you find the correct one. I have a copy of my grandmother's original page provided by the National Archives. I knew the ship and the date of arrival, but the search of the records failed. By using the above, I located her record. Ron Mlejnek At 07:48 AM 03/30/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I, too, have found many errors on the Ellis Island website. One instance, >my relative was traveling in 1871. There was a link to "view this ship" >which took you to a ship built in 1890 so obviously not the same ship, >though it had the same name. Also, the link to view page source took you to >a totally different record. I never did find the original record on their >website. etc. etc. Just keep your eyes out for inconsistencies while you >read ellisisland.org. > >Cassandra > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >Please do not repost the whole digest when replying to mail.

Sandy, please tell us the answer you get from Leo Thanks, Sue Houfek

Cassandra, I to, was taken to the wrong page for the person I was searching but with a lot of patience and time I did find the right page so now have that record amoung my files. Never give up. :>))) C&C

Hi Everyone, I have a photograph of an unknown Czech ancestor in uniform but I have no idea what type it is. It was taken in 1945. Would anyone be willing to try to identify it for me? His name is written on the back but I can't figure out what it is. Any help would be appreciated! Carol

Sandy Miller: Why not ask Leo Baca? His email address is lbaca@attbi.com. Blanche Schulz Chicago __________________________________________________________________ Introducing the New Netscape Internet Service. Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

Could anyone tell me what criteria were used to select people for inclusion in Leo Baca's series? I have dozens of Czech relatives who came over at various times, but I have found hardly a one in these books. True, some of these relatives stopped in Russia for a few years after leaving Moravia and before reaching American shores. But the passenger lists reflected their nationality and obvious Czech surnames. Would these Czechs from Russia have been excluded from the books? Also, if anyone out there is researching lines who lived in Czech settlements in Russia for awhile, I would be very interested in corresponding with you about your research experiences. Sandy Miller

Actually, Leo Baca does list the towns they were from IF they were listed....at least that has been my experience. I believe he lists what's shown - he normally did not list those from "Austria" but sometimes (thank goodness, he does pick them up because one of mine was listed like that) and the name was changed by the captain from Sery to Sherry.... I asked him last month if he would be coming out with a new volume and he said no because he used to rent the film from Heritage Quest and they no longer rent them out. Maggie Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Fink" <wolibra@worldnet.att.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] Baca Lookup--surname Kostchranz > Hi Joanne, I have volume 5 and on page 78 There is a Kostchranz,Franz > 34,Bohemia, Hohenstaufen,4June1880 > the port is New York and he was alone.Baca does not list the towns that the > people were from. Hope this helps > Regards, Pat in Texas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joanne Brown" <jb@tbcnet.com> > To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:17 PM > Subject: [CZ] Baca Lookup--surname Kostchranz > > > > My thanks to Charles Smith for the huge amount of information he copied > > for me regarding the surnames Kos and Kostohryz. I am still interested > > in a listing that is supposed to be in Baca's Volume 5, p. 78 for a > > Franz Kostchranz. I am hoping that Charles or someone else who has > > access to this book would look this up for me. I need to know the date, > > ship, port, and if there were any other family members with him. Thanks > > in advance to anyone who can help me. > > Joanne > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > > handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > > problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > > email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > > for list discussion. > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > Czech-L's webpage is at > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/index.htm >

jThanks, Frances Lots of good ideas there. Some I have tried, some I haven't, so maybe the info is out there somewhere....Millie

When you are looking in an index, keep a copy of the typewriter keyboard handy. (I simply made some photocopies of my keyboard and laminated them. Typos could have occurred in the creation of the index. For Example, for my main Czech Surnames, FRYBORT, TVRDIK, and ZEMEK, I always look for DRYBORT, ERYBORT, TRYBORT, GRYBORT, VRYBORT, and CRYBORT -- all the letters surrounding the F-key. Same for the other Surnames. Also, get a chart of the Palmer Method of Handwriting -- a system in use generations ago. I'll post a site of the chart as soon as I find it again. T could be confused with F and vice versa, for example. Check the chart for other letters that could be confused in Palmer Method handwriting. Finally, spell your Ancestor's Name aloud. Try to imagine an impatient or tired immigration clerk listening to someone with an accent. I have found in records F-R-Y-B-O-R-T entered as F-R-Y-B-O-R-G and many other variations. Be patient. Keep a sense of imagination, and above all, a sense of humour. Happy Hunting. John Frybort Goshen, Indiana, USA

----- Original Message ----- From: <Bohunkjoe@aol.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: [CZ] IGI and LDS > > > I did not mean to shake up the list. SO SORRY > > Hi Jean ! > You didnt shake up the list. But "IGI records at LDS" are differant than the > LDS records I interpreted you discussing in your original e mail. > What is there still to figure out? Post it here and maybe we can all > brainstorm some ideas for you. If ya want. > I have been known to do a little research for folks when I can schedule it on > my trips to Czechia. > Good Luck in your search. > Regards, Mike in AZ > SWARTZ~SVARC / CERNY / HAJEK / HOSEK / HRABAC / KREISSINGER / CERM Mike: I have used two reashers and they still have not gotten the facts I want, but then they found some I didn't want to know. Hey My sister lives in Tucson for the last 25 years its nice and warm there no snow. Thanks for the insight Jean > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: > CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of multiple messages) > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > >