hi mike in ariz. i have ask you in the past about kreissinger. bartolome cerny was from vodnany # 31,near prague eleonora pachler his wife was from tesinov. any connection\ bill in tampa ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bohunkjoe@aol.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:53 AM Subject: [CZ] CERNY ...for Bill > Hi Bill ! > Maybe weve discusssed already..... > but where are your CERNY's from ? > Mine were from Prague, but Ive not researched that branch yet. > ANNA CERNY marr. Frank SVARC in 1872 ( in Praha ?) and emmigrated to Coal > City, Grundy Co, IL in 1886. There were other CERNY's in Coal City, its not known > by me if they were all related. > > Mike in AZ > SWARTZ~SVARC / CERNY / HAJEK / HOSEK / HRABAC / KREISSINGER / CERMAK > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > Please do not repost the whole digest when replying to mail. >

Could anyone tell me the address or E-mail address of a Byzantine Greek Catholic Church in Slovakia? I am trying to locate my Paternal Grandparents and any relative. Thanks. George

Hi: My grandfather was born in Haid and I have his ancestors back to 1700 there but about five miles away in another village there is a large group of people with the same surname, as grandfathers, I am trying to find out if there might be some sort of relationship between the two groups. any suggestions greatly appreciated. Jean

MaryL Is possible to find lout if the houses are still standing? My agrandfather was born in house#115 in Haid. Is the some way to find out if the house is still standing. Thanks Jean Horl

In a transcript from my Czech genealogy, there appears a term for the cause of death of an infant - psotnik - there is a mark over the i . What is that? Another term that appears for the cause of death for an older person is stickfluss Does anyone know what that means? Some other terms that puzzle me. Reeve Iron Cow Hammelknecht - knecht at ewe lambs - father - opilio - opidis I have been told that there are some records ;Zastavnni panstvi Krivoklat , branch archive in Trebon, situated in Cesky Krumloov; as to moving of shepards, permitting of weddings. This was emailed to me from a researcher in Pardubice. However, I don't understand as Krivoklat is a castle, and I don't believe it is near Trebon. And, Cesky Krumlov is very much south towards the border of Austria so I can't figure this out. He did not speak English and I do not speak Czech so you can see we did not understand each other. He has dropped out of sight so I can't email him again. Krivoklat is a possibility as it is not far from the area of my ancestors. Karl Herink, born about 1620 in Zavidov, Rakovnik District. West of Prague Sorry this got to be lengthy...hope someone can help Thanks, Millie

I would like to know more about the way houses and possessions were handed down in families. Someone mentioned that the house was usually handed down to the oldest son. Were the other children left out completely, and why was this done? Maybe someone has knowledge of this, or maybe a book has been written about it? Lillian

CNIDR Isearch-cgi 1.20.06 (File: 167) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:25:47 -0900 From: "Mach Family" <machfam@mtaonline.net> To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <007c01c0abeb$08cd2420$673e200c@machfam> Subject: Re: [CZ] Palacky Lookup Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, Thanks so much for the history on the villages and towns! It is fascinating! I will pay close attention when my daughter goes through that section in her World History class! We are now just starting the Renaissance. (I homeschool so I am learning with my children.) I am thankful you are so learned in this area. Appreciate all you have done. Sharon P.S. My goal is to have one of my kids learn German so I can learn it right along with them! ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Kittilson <kkittils@wcca.state.mn.us> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [CZ] Palacky Lookup Hi Sharon, Palacky has Ronsperk, german "Ronsberg", 223 houses and 1905 inhabitants, in the estate of the same name. Like the estate of Bystrice it is listed in the Klatovy district. I would think the spellings you give are all variants of this place. "Fozane" rings no bells and is not a spelling that would be either a Czech or German village name as such. Regarding your last question: The settlement patterns in Bohemia as in most of Europe are the result of the pattern of life in the middle ages and earlier. The farming techniques available until quite recently were very labor intensive and really limited the amount of land a peasant family could farm to about 40-60 acres, more than that was beyond the capacity of a horse or ox and a wheeled plow. In order to afford any degree of personal safety from marauding brigands or soldiers, farmers mostly lived in villages rather than in isolated farmsteads, with their land extending outwards in strips from the village. The villages consisted of groups of houses, each with its barns and sheds, and the size of a village could not be very great as land could not be too far away, so that the amount of productive farmland within easy walking distance surrounding the village limited the number of people that could live there. Accordingly, you find throughout Europe a pattern of many small villages a mile or two apart separated by field land. Originally as a matter of further protection, most villages had in the early middle ages submitted to or otherwise come under the protection and rule of powerful local "strongmen". In return for protection villages were to provide labor and agricultural produce to the knight which allowed the knight to sustain and equip himself as a non-laboring warrior. Over time, the descendants of such knights, the nobility, expanded and protected their hereditary priveleges and were viewed as the owners of the estate and masters of its inhabitants. Many of the old feudal priveleges were still being enforced until serfdom was abolished in Bohemia in 1848, due to the rise of the modern nation-state in the 1700s. Estates or parts of estates were sold or inherited among and between the nobility and thus what estate a village was in could change from time to time. Some villages were founded by the nobility which populated them with immigrants lured away from other estates where conditions were worse or with serfs involuntarily relocated from the lord's other estates. Overlaid on this were towns. Towns developed as centers for distributing products that were too specialized to be profitably made in small villages and as centers of military control and religious control. They could be walled or fortified and withstand sieges. Some towns became important and powerful enough that they were given royal charters by the king by which the townspeople were freed from obligations to the local nobility. Many towns acquired some of the surrounding villages by purchase from noblemen who needed ready cash, and the city itself exacted from these villages the same kinds of feudal payments in work and produce that the village had paid to the preceding nobleman. Towns thus assured for themselves a supply of foodstuffs without the necessity of being depended on the often predatory local nobility. Superimposed over this patchwork was the Catholic church's administrative network of parishes, chapels and bishoprics, which did not necessarily follow estate or town boundaries. Beginning in the 1600s, further administrative divisions were imposed over this scheme as the central monarchy began to assert more and more control over things previously left to the nobility, such as the administration of military conscription, taxation, law courts and so on. Royal administrative districts were sometimes deliberately designed in such a way as to overlap or ignore estate boundaries so that the power of local noblemen to influence the administration of the king's business might be lessened. The size and distribution of villages was also influenced by local factors of geography and natural resources, for example where the land was mountainous or forested or the exploitation of mineral or other resources altered the typical pattern of how many people could be sustained by a specific area. I find that in trying to answer your last question I have gotten carried away and written what amounts to a short treatise. I apologize for the length. Frankly, it is also a bit oversimplified, as this whole topic is far more complex than I could explain in a few paragraphs. I hope it does not bore you to death, but instead that it gives you a sense of the complex history of this area. machfam@mtaonline.net 03/13/01 10:50AM >>> Kevin, I was wondering since this look up is still fresh in your mind if you wouldn't mind seeing if one more town is in this village or vice versa (it is kind of confusing). Anyway, Andrew and Wenzel, the Soukup brothers came over to the US together and in a story Andrew wrote (which I would like to share with the list but don't know if that is allowed since it is quite lengthy) he said he was born in the Village of Harlau (which I suspect is Hoslau since this is where I have documented proof of his grandfather being born) and he wrote our town was Rompsberg. I also got the word Fozane from somewhere. Is this the bigger area? Now on my greatgrandfather Wenzel's death certificate it lists his birth place as Ransperk which I think is just a misspelling of Rompsberg. Am I correct in this? So now, are there alot of small villages in these towns? Or alot of towns in the villages? I am definitely confused. If you don't have time that's fine. You have already done quite alot for me. Thanks so much. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Kittilson <kkittils@wcca.state.mn.us> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] Palacky Lookup Hi Sharon, Here is something further based on your note. In Bystrice estate there is a village listed in Palacky as "Boztesice". Sounds like this would be the same as the "Bozatice" in the death record. Here is the data on that place: Boztesice, 8 houses and 88 inhabitants. The other book lists it even closer to your spelling, as Bozetitz, aka Bozetice, in the estate of Bistritz, a hamlet of 14 houses 114 inhabitants in the parish of Drosau. Drosau in Palacky is the German name of the parish village of Strazow, a town, really, of 188 houses and 1602 inhabitants; it is listed in Palacky directly next to Boztesice. K machfam@mtaonline.net 03/12/01 10:08PM >>> Hi Kevin, Thanks so much for researching these towns for me! I really appreciate it! My Barbara Dusek according to her death certificate was born in Bozatice. Now I know it is probably Bystrice. So both the Soukups and Duseks are from the same village. Thanks also for the military and parish info. Sharon Sukup Mach Alaska, USA Hello Darlene On Sunday, February 2, 2003, you wrote > At one time apparently there there was an article containing an explanation of the WHY & HOW of the pattern of Land Ownership shown on a map. The pattern resembles the "spokes" on a wheel which > radiate out from the village center. I would like to get a copy of this article and map. Thanks, Darlene > If List Archives allow search with author's name, that > was a great background piece by Kevin Kittilson. > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > The mailing list is configured to reply only to the list. If you are making a personal reply to a poster, it will be necessary to delete the list address and add the individual's address. ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== Please do not repost the whole digest when replying to mail.

This is a forwarded message From: Martin Pytr <maxi@raz-dva.cz> To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002, 12:29:18 PM Subject: [CZ] House numbers? ===8<==============Original message text=============== Hi all, The question of house numbers was already discussed here. Someone of the contributors (I am sorry I dont know who) wrote following words about it: In the time of Emperor Joseph II. this numbers introduced 1770 first. If a village/town had a chapel or church in 1770 they might have used that as a starting point for numbering but then you would expect the house numbers to follow one another in some sort of order. Some houses were built between the old farms and needed also new numbers. All the best, Martin Pytr, Cz --- Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.401 / Virová báze: 226 - datum vydání: 9.10.2002 ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== List Administrator may be reached by sending an email to CZECH-ADMIN@ROOTSWEB.COM ===8<===========End of original message text===========

This is a forwarded message From: Bohunkjoe@aol.com <Bohunkjoe@aol.com> To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002, 12:15:49 AM Subject: [CZ] HOUSE #' 's ===8<==============Original message text=============== In a message dated 11/12/02 11:13:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Can someone please tell me what "House #41" means? When I acquired birth > records from CR, house numbers were all over. > HI Liz !! Yes, typical of Czech B records. Its one of the most important factors that were recorded. If you have a actual copy of the B rcd, I would expect it would show the house #'s of both sets of parents too. Sometimes tho, the Mom and Mom in Law, have the same hse # as their husband, sometimes maybe it shows their hse #, perhaps where they were born or raised prior to Marriage. The "Baba" or midwife might also have her house # shown, as well as the witnesses. Sometimes also, the birth accurred in the midwife's house or another place away from where the lucky couple resided. At, least, this is my observations from what I have seen. A freind turned me on to checking a house # for all the births that occured in that house. EX: start w/ one birth record book, and look thru it all. Fascinating and sometimes you may find allied families/relatives/ in- laws, etc. Normally, the oldest Son inherited the family house thru the years. I have also seen alot of movement between houses, OR perhaps it was a recording error. I agree w/ has been previously stated abt hse #'s, # 1 was built 1st. # 21, built 21st in the village. Liz, did you get a copy, or was it just transcribed and typed up in Cz. or English? Mike in AZ SWARTZ~SVARC / CERNY / HAJEK / HOSEK / KREISSINGER / HRABAC ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of multiple messages) In the body include only one word: unsubscribe ===8<===========End of original message text===========

This is a forwarded message From: ChBelinda@cs.com <ChBelinda@cs.com> To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 12:22:27 AM Subject: [CZ] House numbers? ===8<==============Original message text=============== Also, in addition to recent comments about "house numbers", they were political designations, and were not allowed to be changed or taken from the original house and given to another house. My father's home was Kleinbosig 19. This number will remain on that house until it falls down, is burned, or razed. Perhaps a bit of stability in a changing world? Mary Hosteny ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html. ===8<===========End of original message text===========

I would be interested in knowing more about early house numbering systems I understand that in portions the 1700's and 1800's the houses in a town were numbered in the sequence in which they were constructed. House 41 and house 42 might be in opposite ends of a town. I would like to know when this numbering system began and when it ended. Also, when they went to the numbering system we use now, did they renumber the old houses or were their numbers somehow grandfathered in? Thank you Jim Vleck

That sounds like a good explanation. I had encountered that in my trips searching for ancestoral houses - 2 numbers. I thought it may have been because the original house was torn down and replaced, thus the new number with the old. Interesting! I'm anxious to hear if anyone else has the answer. M...researching , Herink,Stepan,Soukup,Vasik,Novotny,Cherny

Some time ago when I was forturnate to go to Czech Republic, a CZ lady in my little ancestoral village stated that the oldest house was #1, the next house built after it was #2, and so on. The Germans could not grasp the concept, or else it gave them a thorn in the side, so the Germans (according to this lady) renumbered the houses. After the occupation left, the people wanted to return to the original numbers so the houses are now numbered both ways to avoid even more confusion. Hope this helps. Teresa ----- Original Message ----- From: "List Administration" <chook@starpower.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:54 PM Subject: [CZ] House numbering > >From Karen Hobb and Joanna Donovan. These posts also would > be in the mail archives (2000 and 2001). > > Elaine > > ***************** > > > A few issues back someone stated that the House Numbers were off the > > churches > > and Number 1 was perhaps the home of priests. I have two reletives that > > the > > father born 1691 died 1790 lived in Tetin #1 Bartolomej Kaucky, the son > > Vaclav Kaucky, born 1736-died 1771 lived in house #3 Tetin. > > I wonder what the story was, and if the above theory was correct? > > Frank Kautsky > > > > I am no expert on this subject but I know that some places did not have a > chapel or church and the people attended services in another village/town. > One parsonage served as many as 10 villages in the surrounding area that were > part of the parish community. I believe that house numbers were first given > in about 1770 -- they were given by the imperial census commission that > visited every house in every village at that time. They were taking census > to determine who was eligible for conscription. > > If a village/town had a chapel or church in 1770 they might have used that as > a starting point for numbering but then you would expect the house numbers to > follow one another in some sort of order. That generally is not the case -- > the numbers in most villages are all mixed up with very few > consecutively-numbered houses being next to each other. I understand that > happened because the houses were numbered in the order in which they were > built. > > There was a re-numbering of houses sometime after 1860 if I recall correctly > -- maybe in the 1880s. If they still followed the old pattern of numbering > based on the age of the house the re-numbering may have been necessary > because some houses had been replaced or abandoned and torn down over time. > > All the maps I have of village layouts and location of house numbers in my > Mies Heimatbuch (showing villages as they were in 1945) have very few houses > that are numbered in a regular sequence. Most of them seem quite random as > far as house numbers are concerned. Based on those maps I would tend to > believe that there never was any attempt to make a numbering grid in these > villages. > > My ancestral house number 21 in Slavice (Mariafels) is on a glazed tile set > into the second floor stucco wall. The exisiting residence was built in the > 1930s but the farm buildings are much older. All of the documents I have > about my ancestors show that they already lived in house 21 in the 1770s and > possibly earlier. The Sudeten Ortsbetreuer for Slavice tells me that that > farmstead was always number 21. This makes me believe that the number on > that house was never changed. ( I don't know what the official number is > today.) > > The Bohemian villages were sometimes more or less cross or circular in shape > and sometimes long and narrow with a few side streets. It would have been > difficult to establish a grid for numbering in most of them. > > Larger towns and cities may have a grid system with consecutive numbers now, > but I suspect that the original numbering system may not have been based on a > grid even in those places. > > Karen > > ********* > > > I recently returned from a trip to the Czech Republic and the houses in the > villages are numbered in what would appear to be a haphazard manner. We had > to ride up and down the streets and lanes to find the homes of my ancestors. > The suggestion that the houses were numbered as they were built makes sense > to me. We found one house in Vcelnicka in which the front (and older) part > was number 1 and the back part (an add-on used as a separate dwelling) was # > 65. > > It was very helpful that the number of the house in which my ancestors were > born was listed in the registers along with their other birth information. > You can imagine my delight when we found that the house that was the > birthplace of my great-grandmother, Josefa Vachuska, Slatina 28, was still > occupied by the Vachuska family. > > Joana Stuchlik Donovan > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > The mailing list is configured to reply only to the list. If you are making a personal reply to a poster, it will be necessary to delete the list address and add the individual's address. >

My ancestors in village Polom in Moravia house #9 first listed in archives as the house my 2nd gr. Grandfather was born in 1771, was #9 when my gr. Grandfather lived in 1893, dying in grandsons house #13 in 1894. #9 still stands today. Another house in Miroslav, Moravia I stayed in was numbered 125/9 which I understand was the result of re-numbering showing old and new #. Just another example, I am not an expert on this. > -----Original Message----- > From: List Administration [mailto:chook@starpower.net] > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 1:54 PM > To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CZ] House numbering > > >From Karen Hobb and Joanna Donovan. These posts also would > be in the mail archives (2000 and 2001). > > Elaine > > ***************** > > > A few issues back someone stated that the House Numbers were off the > > churches > > and Number 1 was perhaps the home of priests. I have two reletives that > > the > > father born 1691 died 1790 lived in Tetin #1 Bartolomej Kaucky, the son > > Vaclav Kaucky, born 1736-died 1771 lived in house #3 Tetin. > > I wonder what the story was, and if the above theory was correct? > > Frank Kautsky > > > > I am no expert on this subject but I know that some places did not have a > chapel or church and the people attended services in another village/town. > One parsonage served as many as 10 villages in the surrounding area that > were > part of the parish community. I believe that house numbers were first > given > in about 1770 -- they were given by the imperial census commission that > visited every house in every village at that time. They were taking > census > to determine who was eligible for conscription. > > If a village/town had a chapel or church in 1770 they might have used that > as > a starting point for numbering but then you would expect the house numbers > to > follow one another in some sort of order. That generally is not the case > -- > the numbers in most villages are all mixed up with very few > consecutively-numbered houses being next to each other. I understand > that > happened because the houses were numbered in the order in which they were > built. > > There was a re-numbering of houses sometime after 1860 if I recall > correctly > -- maybe in the 1880s. If they still followed the old pattern of > numbering > based on the age of the house the re-numbering may have been necessary > because some houses had been replaced or abandoned and torn down over > time. > > All the maps I have of village layouts and location of house numbers in my > Mies Heimatbuch (showing villages as they were in 1945) have very few > houses > that are numbered in a regular sequence. Most of them seem quite random > as > far as house numbers are concerned. Based on those maps I would tend to > believe that there never was any attempt to make a numbering grid in these > villages. > > My ancestral house number 21 in Slavice (Mariafels) is on a glazed tile > set > into the second floor stucco wall. The exisiting residence was built in > the > 1930s but the farm buildings are much older. All of the documents I have > about my ancestors show that they already lived in house 21 in the 1770s > and > possibly earlier. The Sudeten Ortsbetreuer for Slavice tells me that that > farmstead was always number 21. This makes me believe that the number > on > that house was never changed. ( I don't know what the official number is > today.) > > The Bohemian villages were sometimes more or less cross or circular in > shape > and sometimes long and narrow with a few side streets. It would have > been > difficult to establish a grid for numbering in most of them. > > Larger towns and cities may have a grid system with consecutive numbers > now, > but I suspect that the original numbering system may not have been based > on a > grid even in those places. > > Karen > > ********* > > > I recently returned from a trip to the Czech Republic and the houses in > the > villages are numbered in what would appear to be a haphazard manner. We > had > to ride up and down the streets and lanes to find the homes of my > ancestors. > The suggestion that the houses were numbered as they were built makes > sense > to me. We found one house in Vcelnicka in which the front (and older) > part > was number 1 and the back part (an add-on used as a separate dwelling) was > # > 65. > > It was very helpful that the number of the house in which my ancestors > were > born was listed in the registers along with their other birth information. > You can imagine my delight when we found that the house that was the > birthplace of my great-grandmother, Josefa Vachuska, Slatina 28, was still > occupied by the Vachuska family. > > Joana Stuchlik Donovan > > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > The mailing list is configured to reply only to the list. If you are > making a personal reply to a poster, it will be necessary to delete the > list address and add the individual's address.

From Karen Hobb and Joanna Donovan. These posts also would be in the mail archives (2000 and 2001). Elaine ***************** > A few issues back someone stated that the House Numbers were off the > churches > and Number 1 was perhaps the home of priests. I have two reletives that > the > father born 1691 died 1790 lived in Tetin #1 Bartolomej Kaucky, the son > Vaclav Kaucky, born 1736-died 1771 lived in house #3 Tetin. > I wonder what the story was, and if the above theory was correct? > Frank Kautsky > I am no expert on this subject but I know that some places did not have a chapel or church and the people attended services in another village/town. One parsonage served as many as 10 villages in the surrounding area that were part of the parish community. I believe that house numbers were first given in about 1770 -- they were given by the imperial census commission that visited every house in every village at that time. They were taking census to determine who was eligible for conscription. If a village/town had a chapel or church in 1770 they might have used that as a starting point for numbering but then you would expect the house numbers to follow one another in some sort of order. That generally is not the case -- the numbers in most villages are all mixed up with very few consecutively-numbered houses being next to each other. I understand that happened because the houses were numbered in the order in which they were built. There was a re-numbering of houses sometime after 1860 if I recall correctly -- maybe in the 1880s. If they still followed the old pattern of numbering based on the age of the house the re-numbering may have been necessary because some houses had been replaced or abandoned and torn down over time. All the maps I have of village layouts and location of house numbers in my Mies Heimatbuch (showing villages as they were in 1945) have very few houses that are numbered in a regular sequence. Most of them seem quite random as far as house numbers are concerned. Based on those maps I would tend to believe that there never was any attempt to make a numbering grid in these villages. My ancestral house number 21 in Slavice (Mariafels) is on a glazed tile set into the second floor stucco wall. The exisiting residence was built in the 1930s but the farm buildings are much older. All of the documents I have about my ancestors show that they already lived in house 21 in the 1770s and possibly earlier. The Sudeten Ortsbetreuer for Slavice tells me that that farmstead was always number 21. This makes me believe that the number on that house was never changed. ( I don't know what the official number is today.) The Bohemian villages were sometimes more or less cross or circular in shape and sometimes long and narrow with a few side streets. It would have been difficult to establish a grid for numbering in most of them. Larger towns and cities may have a grid system with consecutive numbers now, but I suspect that the original numbering system may not have been based on a grid even in those places. Karen ********* I recently returned from a trip to the Czech Republic and the houses in the villages are numbered in what would appear to be a haphazard manner. We had to ride up and down the streets and lanes to find the homes of my ancestors. The suggestion that the houses were numbered as they were built makes sense to me. We found one house in Vcelnicka in which the front (and older) part was number 1 and the back part (an add-on used as a separate dwelling) was # 65. It was very helpful that the number of the house in which my ancestors were born was listed in the registers along with their other birth information. You can imagine my delight when we found that the house that was the birthplace of my great-grandmother, Josefa Vachuska, Slatina 28, was still occupied by the Vachuska family. Joana Stuchlik Donovan

Go to the mail archives http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ask for Czech then ask for house number starting in 2001 and working forward. There is very good information about the subject. I will also check my mailbox to see if I kept any of the posts and will forward them in if I have them. However, the archives are a rich source of information like this. Elaine Genealogy: A haystack full of needles. It's the threads I need. Hello James On Saturday, April 17, 2004, you wrote > I would be interested in knowing more about early house > numbering systems I understand that in portions the > 1700's and 1800's the houses in a town were numbered in > the sequence in which they were constructed. House 41 and > house 42 might be in opposite ends of a town. I would > like to know when this numbering system began and when it > ended. Also, when they went to the numbering system we > use now, did they renumber the old houses or were their > numbers somehow grandfathered in? > Thank you > Jim Vleck

Dear Millie, I dont know exactly where the information what I translated came from. But generally: Estate (Dominium) affairs could be find at of State Regional Archives "Statni Oblastni Archiv": Central Bohemia - Statni Oblastni Archiv Praha (Prague) Northern Bohemia - Statni Oblastni Archiv Litomerice Southern Bohemia - Statni Oblastni Archiv Trebon Western Bohemia - Statni Oblastni Archiv Plzen (Pilsen) Eastern Bohemia - Statni Oblastni Archiv Zamrsk Southern Moravia - Moravsky Zemsky Archiv Brno Northern Moravia and Silesia - Zemsky Archiv Opava There are hold in fond called "Fond velkostatku....." (instead the dots write the name of the dominium (estate). It is necessery to know to which estate (dominium) your town or village was belonged. It means to know ancient administrative divisions of Bohemia and Moravia, what is complicated. Bohemia and Moravia consists from several regions (kraj, pl. kraje). Each region were divided into numbers of estates and dominiums owned by noble families, bishops, King, etc. Maps of Moravian regions you can find here: http://members.tripod.com/~zlimpkk/morava/kraje.html I live at village Morkov, Moravia. You can find it in the maps at region Prerov and in Dominium Novy Jicin. In Fond Velkostatku you can find land records and another interesting information. But situation in various Estates were different. I will show it in the example of situation at Zemsky Archiv Opava. The oldest records of town Lipnik stored there starts in 1488(!) But the oldest records of village Katerinice (Estate of Vsetin) stored there starts in 1819(!) All the best, Martin Pytr, CZ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mrbkdb112@cs.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] Re: Translation help needed > Martin, I read your translation with great interest. Do records like that > exist for other villages or estates? Are they in a place where they can be > searched? > > Where are you located? > > thanks...Millie >

In a message dated 4/17/04 10:11:56 AM Central Daylight Time, rlk4@qwest.net writes: > to have Cerny on my tree. My 3xgrandmother was Josephine Cerny b. 1857 to > John Cerny, listed from just, Bohemia. I have no clue where to start with > this line. > Have you checked her death certificate, and obit. Have you found her obit in the Czech paper? I got my best info on my ggrandmother, Marie/Mary CERNY from the obit that was put in the Czech language paper. Annie in Minnesota

If anyone has a Jospeh CERNY/CERNEY whose parents were Frank and Marie/Mary MUDRA CERNY, I would appreciate hearing from them. I am missing one. My CERNY/CERNEY family came from Ujezd Medovy, Rokycany County, Bohemia near Prague. I have the lines of all except Joseph, who I cannot find. They immigrated in 1881 and after spending some time in NY joined the oldest son, John, who was in Mitchell County, IA. In 1891 most of them moved to southern MN and have been in MN since. However, I have not been able to find Joseph, who, I keep hearing possibly stayed in IA someplace. I do not have a birth place for Frank, but the youngest son, my grandfather Charles was born in Ujezd Medovy, Rokycany County, Bohemia. However, according to her obit his mother, Marie/Mary was born in Syra, Rokycany County, Bohemia. Annie in Minnesota

Hi Bill ! Maybe weve discusssed already..... but where are your CERNY's from ? Mine were from Prague, but Ive not researched that branch yet. ANNA CERNY marr. Frank SVARC in 1872 ( in Praha ?) and emmigrated to Coal City, Grundy Co, IL in 1886. There were other CERNY's in Coal City, its not known by me if they were all related. Mike in AZ SWARTZ~SVARC / CERNY / HAJEK / HOSEK / HRABAC / KREISSINGER / CERMAK