Susan- Re forms: You might consider one of the two genealogy programs that can switch from English to Czech as language for the program: Brothers Keeper and Win-Family. Both are multi-lingual, ie they can be used either in English or in a variety of other languages. If you enter your data using the English version, you can switch to the Czech language version and print out family group sheets, pedigree charts and other reports in Czech, which you could then give to/show to/Czech- speaking relatives. You can also print some of these as blank forms. If you already are using one of the many other genealogy programs, you probably can export your data as a gedcom and then import it into either of these two. Both of these are popular among Czech genealogists because the Czech language can be used for the program screens and instructions. A fully functioning trial version of Brothers Keeper can be downloaded as share- ware from http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Brothers_Keeper/ It has the advantage that you could try printing out some reports before you decided whether to buy it. The reports are pretty basic typography, however, and not particularly elegant in appearance. Win-Family also has a trial version, which you can download at : http://www.winfamily.com/ Winfamily's reports are more elegant in appearance but you cannot print from the trial version, only after you buy the program. Neither of these is hugely expensive, both $45-50 range, though they are considerably more than pocket change (well, unless your pockets are a lot deeper than mine!) I don't have any connection with the sale or production of either program. I once used Brothers Keeper as my primary genealogy program before LDS offered PAF as freeware. I switched to PAF because it was at that time better with source notations and offered some other bells & whistles. But I had found Brothers Keeper to be an excellent program and there are still some things about it that I miss with PAF. I have no experience with WinFamily other than trying out the trial version for a half hour or so. Looks like a nice program also, though it looks like it would be harder to learn. >>> "Susan Williams" <swilliams1200@comcast.net> 5/21/2004 1:24:42 PM >>> Dorothy - your idea sounds good -- take a form in English and translate it to Czech. I believe ancestry.com and genealogy.com both have forms/trees that you can download. I recently discovered a birth certificate from Bohemia written in 1854. The headings/titles were written in both Czech and German -- so you may want to do the same or do them in Czech, German and English allowing the person who is attempting to use the form to use the language he/she is most familiar with. Perhaps someone on this list would be willing to write a short paragraph explaining what you are looking for -- or better yet - Peter could write the paragraph in English and ask to have it translated. Creating the form yourself would be relatively easy -- kind of like writing a fill-in-the blank family tree by leaving blank spaces underlined and putting the titles like mother, father, etc. underneath. Once you work with it, you'll come up with something that works for you. Susan ______________________________

Here is a link to lots of free forms, etc. on-line. http://searchforancestors.com/genealogyfreebies.html Looks quite interesting. Susan

Barbara -- At the risk of telling you something you already know -- have you checked the Mormon records? You don't have to be a Mormon nor do your relatives have to be Mormons to find information at their site. I did a quick check at www.familysearch.org - first I check Franz Lang - putting in the United States and Wisconsin - found a few things but I'm not sure if they are connected to you. Then I put in Joseph Lang and came up with a Lang from Appleton, Wisconsin. The information was submitted by Peggy Lang Schmidt of Butte, MT -- why not see if you are connected. The information goes back at least one generation and lists where Joseph is buried. Sometimes cemeteries have more information than you realize. It might be another place to start. Let me know -- because I am just so curious! Have any trouble, just contact me through the list. Susan

Whatever you do -- don't give up hope. Post the surnames on as many lists as there are in the hope of connecting with another Lang family. Sometimes secrets are hidden forever but some have a way of coming to the surface eventually. I am hoping that some day the Czech church books will become available through the Mormons so I can search them myself. It may also help to research families who lived near your family in the census records you can find. Many times people settled with people from the same origins/locations. It's really like putting a puzzle together. I was never one for jig-saw puzzles but I have developed an incredible patience for researching genealogy. It does take time --- but who cares how long it takes, right? (smile - I get impatient too!) I'll give you an example. My paternal grandfather is Hungarian. All we knew about him (and maybe all he knew too) was his mother's first name and of course his surname. I mentioned once to someone that I would probably never know much about him -- my friend disagreed - he said you'll find it -- I said how - I have nothing to go on? And I really meant it. That was three years ago -- and I have successfully traced one line of that family back to 1770! In the process I learned that my grandfather was illegitimate; his mother married but not his father. This husband died when my grandfather was about 5 -- I believe he thought the man was his father. My grandfather's mother died when he was about 6. The people who raised him were his godparents -- no one ever knew what the connection was. So I learned a lot - our family surname is in fact my great grandmother's maiden surname. I may never know who my grandfather's father was --- that was a well kept secret. When the family members who may have known were still alive, they were busy protecting that secret. They may have been embarrassed -- who knows -- but they wouldn't even tell my aunt where her father was born -- they said he was not from "around there" - meaning in that Hungarian town. But it wasn't the truth. In the meantime, ask every living relative or friend of a relative if they have any documents, pictures, etc. Copy them and tuck them away -- you never know when you'll come across the key to your puzzle. Long story short -- don't give up. Susan -- and let's keep hoping that the Czech records will become available.

Dorothy - your idea sounds good -- take a form in English and translate it to Czech. I believe ancestry.com and genealogy.com both have forms/trees that you can download. I recently discovered a birth certificate from Bohemia written in 1854. The headings/titles were written in both Czech and German -- so you may want to do the same or do them in Czech, German and English allowing the person who is attempting to use the form to use the language he/she is most familiar with. Perhaps someone on this list would be willing to write a short paragraph explaining what you are looking for -- or better yet - Peter could write the paragraph in English and ask to have it translated. Creating the form yourself would be relatively easy -- kind of like writing a fill-in-the blank family tree by leaving blank spaces underlined and putting the titles like mother, father, etc. underneath. Once you work with it, you'll come up with something that works for you. Susan

I agree with you -- you can learn a lot just by reading! I've been researching my Hungarian family for a little over three years and started in earnest on the Czech side about a year ago. I really thought I would reach a dead end very quickly. But I've been very surprised. One story relating to the German language comes to mind. My aunt (my mom's youngest sister - age 75) was the one who spent most of the time alone with her mother. I guess my grandma enjoyed talking and my aunt enjoyed listening as a child. My grandmother was born in NYC on E. 54th Street. Probably when she was about ten or 12 she enjoyed playing outside with her neighborhood friends many of whom spoke German. When she returned to the apartment her own grandmother would scold her for speaking German. Sounds like there was some antipathy between the various sides. My great grandparents also came from Bohemia. As far as your maternal great grandfather coming from Austria, keep in mind that with borders changing etc. many people considered themselves as coming from Bohemia and Austria - I believe Bohemia was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. One more thing I can say -- all of this genealogical research has awakened in me an interest in history -- sorry to say, when I was in school the subject wasn't at the top of my list. Looking forward to reading more postings -- maybe some of them will be from you. Barb, where did your Bohemian ancestors settle in America? Susan

Susan--Yes, I've been to that site. It was helpful because it gave my great-grandparents names, which I didn't have before. I copied Peggy 's address, but haven't tried to contact her yet. I was hoping that I would find info on any of Joseph's brothers or sisters, including my great-grandmother Rosa, but she didn't seem to have that info. Also, the cemetary that Joseph is buried is the same cemetary that my grandparents are buried. I plan on visiting it with my mother soon. I hope we can find the graves. Just curious, do you belong to any genealogy sites, like Ancestry.com or Genealogy.com? They are expensive and I wonder if you get enough info to be worth it. Susan Williams <swilliams1200@comcast.net> wrote: Barbara -- At the risk of telling you something you already know -- have you checked the Mormon records? You don't have to be a Mormon nor do your relatives have to be Mormons to find information at their site. I did a quick check at www.familysearch.org - first I check Franz Lang - putting in the United States and Wisconsin - found a few things but I'm not sure if they are connected to you. Then I put in Joseph Lang and came up with a Lang from Appleton, Wisconsin. The information was submitted by Peggy Lang Schmidt of Butte, MT -- why not see if you are connected. The information goes back at least one generation and lists where Joseph is buried. Sometimes cemeteries have more information than you realize. It might be another place to start. Let me know -- because I am just so curious! Have any trouble, just contact me through the list. Susan ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== No off topic posts, flames, virus warnings, prayers, jokes, chain letters, etc. Violators will be placed on message monitoring and/or lose subscription privileges. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year

Hi Carole, Yes, I can give you quite a bit of information about my ancestors. First, none of them ever migrated to Texas or to Nebraska. Second, all of them came from the Austria-Hungary area which is now Czechoslovakia. They all came to America from Gyorgy, Hungary. Third, my grandmother's name was Philomena Mirushka Kupecz, born in 1888; her parent's names were Milos Krupecz, and Catherine Hradel, They stayed in Hungary. My grandfather's name was Frank Martine Walla. They emigrated to NYC in 1920 on board the Blucher. After a few years they married and settled in Binghamton, Broome, NY, where she gave birth to my father, Walter Francis Walla. Thank you very much, Cathy in Tampa Ongoing Surname Searches as of 1/2004 A U S T I N / D R I S C O L L / F U L L E R / HRADEL K O Z I S K I / K U P E C Z M C L E N D O N / M U R P H Y / N A G L E / R U P P E R T / R Y A N S T E P H E N S / W I L L I A M S / W A L L A

My grandparents settled in Appleton, Wisconsin where I reside. My grandmother's Uncle, Joseph Lang had immigrated to Appleton before her, and I believe that is why her & my grandfather settled here. I did find him listed in the 1900 census and he listed Bohemia as the country he came from. I found out some info on his family, and told my mother the names, and she remembered some of them. She was quite young when her uncle Lang died, but her mother kept in touch with some of the family. My mother was the youngest. My grandmother was 44 when she had her, so she did talk to her mother more than the older children. They did speak German, but my grandfather would scold my grandmother if she spoke in German. He told her "we are in America, we will speak English". I think he taught himself English. He didn't talk about his family or life in Bohemia. I guess he felt that he left that life behind. So, I really don't have alot of info on his family. I do have my great-grandparents nam! es, but not sure if he had any brothers or sisters. My grandmother was an only child who was adopted in infancy by her grandfather, Franz Lang. I really don't have alot to go on, and I'm not even sure I will ever get anything more than what I have. This has also peaked my interest in history, since, I like you, was not very interested in it in school. I look forward to reading stories from you and others on this list. Susan Williams <swilliams1200@comcast.net> wrote:I agree with you -- you can learn a lot just by reading! I've been researching my Hungarian family for a little over three years and started in earnest on the Czech side about a year ago. I really thought I would reach a dead end very quickly. But I've been very surprised. One story relating to the German language comes to mind. My aunt (my mom's youngest sister - age 75) was the one who spent most of the time alone with her mother. I guess my grandma enjoyed talking and my aunt enjoyed listening as a child. My grandmother was born in NYC on E. 54th Street. Probably when she was about ten or 12 she enjoyed playing outside with her neighborhood friends many of whom spoke German. When she returned to the apartment her own grandmother would scold her for speaking German. Sounds like there was some antipathy between the various sides. My great grandparents also came from Bohemia. As far as your maternal great grandfather coming from Austria, keep in mind that with borders changing etc. many people considered themselves as coming from Bohemia and Austria - I believe Bohemia was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. One more thing I can say -- all of this genealogical research has awakened in me an interest in history -- sorry to say, when I was in school the subject wasn't at the top of my list. Looking forward to reading more postings -- maybe some of them will be from you. Barb, where did your Bohemian ancestors settle in America? Susan ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== The mailing list is configured to reply only to the list. If you are making a personal reply to a poster, it will be necessary to delete the list address and add the individual's address. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year

What is being described here is quite common; ie, not knowing exactly which mailing list to subscibe to. At the CZECH Mail List web site, all the various forums and how to subscribe are listed. When a person finds out that they have ancestors that lived in Central and Eastern Europe, they experience some confusion about exactly who their ancestors were. Sometimes after several years of research, they still do not know. They find that they spoke German, but came from Bohemia or Moravia. Sometimes they say they are Austrian, but spoke Czech. Who are these people? The GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list are for persons of German ancestry (that means their families came from Germany and moved to Czech lands over 300 years ago!). These families maintained their German traditions, language and culture. It is this group that was targeted at the end of WW II and were expulsed just because they were of German descent. The key element here is that when a GERMAN-BOHEMIAN dreamed, their dreams were in German. As I recall, Bohemia was about 50% ethnic German after WW II and most were located in what is now referred to as the "border regions" of Bohemia. The other major ethnic group is the Czechs. They are Slavic in origin and have traditions and a language distinctly different from German. Where the confusion arises is that ethnic Czechs also spoke German because it was the official language of the Austrian Hapsburgs. An educated person (whether German or Czech) used both languages fluently which is difficult for some Americans to grasp. An ethnic Czech, contrasted to ethnic German, would dream in Czech. If your family fits the latter category, then you definitely belong on the CZECH Mail List. If they were ethnic German, then the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN List is for you. Basically it deals with the families of ethnic Germans who once lived (and who stil live)in Czech lands, primarily Bohemia. With all the marriages between ethnic Germans and ethnic Czechs, the lines become quite blurred and it might be necessary to be on both lists. Lastly, there are other lists such as one for Moravia and Bohemia and even further subdivision of the Czech Crown Lands. As for myself, those lists tend to be too specific because to be Czech meant one could come from Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia and even Slovakia. My Czech lines came from all 4 places! These are just my personal opinions; please check out the other lists to get an idea of the subject areas and content. Ron Mlejnek > > From: barb bodoh <babette_55@yahoo.com> > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 08:42:41 CDT > To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [CZ] CZECH Genealogy Forms > > Susan--I'm fairly new to genealogy search. I signed up for this mailing list several months ago. I see there is a german-bohemian mailing list. My mother told me that my grandparents spoke German. They came from Western Bohemia which is close to the German border. My mother knew her mother came from Czechoslovakia, but thought her father came from Austria, which is what he always said. We found a paper written by my late Aunt that gave us names of great-grandparents on both sides. At least I know what area my grandmother came from, but on the paper it just said my grandfather was from Bohemia. I'm thinking that that I should sign up on this mailing list. I was always wondering if there were others whose ancestors spoke German but lived in Bohemia. I find other's queries interesting. Thanks!

On the subject of Vaclav. It was my father-in-law's given name. He changed it to James. He said it has the same meaning. Last name Vacek also means James. So Wenceslas also means James or Vacek. Some time back I printed off a dictionary of Czech names and they also agreed. Try this ... http://members.tripod.com/~zlimpkk/Genealogy/czechsurnames.html. Therefore Vaclav Vacek would be James James. Dvorak means a farmer having his free farm, etc. Hope this is of same help. I ran across it by accident and it has been of some help. Tymna

Form(s) I can give our Czech relatives to fill out this summer. Peter prohel@sympatico.ca -----Original Message----- From: Susan Williams [mailto:swilliams1200@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:17 AM To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CZ] CZECH Genealogy Forms Peter -- are you talking about forms that you would fill in yourself .... or are you talking about forums - other mailing lists where you can search for other people researching the same names as you. If it is forums or mailing lists, go to www.rootsweb.com At the top of the page, you will see Mailing Lists -- click on that ... scroll down to International and click on Czech Republic. There are quite a few lists besides this one. (I think most of the lists are in English) I think most people searching and researching subscribe to more than one list. Hope this helps. Susan ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of multiple messages) In the body include only one word: unsubscribe

Peter -- are you talking about forms that you would fill in yourself .... or are you talking about forums - other mailing lists where you can search for other people researching the same names as you. If it is forums or mailing lists, go to www.rootsweb.com At the top of the page, you will see Mailing Lists -- click on that ... scroll down to International and click on Czech Republic. There are quite a few lists besides this one. (I think most of the lists are in English) I think most people searching and researching subscribe to more than one list. Hope this helps. Susan

Joan, I know what you mean. It is difficult when the language isn't understood. When the names start changing it makes things even more challenging. When I started my fathers side I had to take a year of Italian just to get the gist of what the records were saying. I can't imagine doing the same with this. The language is totally intimidating looking. Even when my GM speaks it I don't understand any of the words. On both sides of my family they kept the "mother tongue" as the secret language. I wish I had a time machine to go back and change that. Stefanie

Ron - thanks for adding my surnames to the list. Susan W.

This is a good idea. I would be interested too. Maybe someone knows a Czech site they can be downloaded from like you can with ancestry.com. If not, maybe you would just have to take an English one and translate the words into Czech. Dorothy Peter Rohel wrote: >Form(s) I can give our Czech relatives to fill out this summer. > >Peter >prohel@sympatico.ca > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Williams [mailto:swilliams1200@comcast.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:17 AM >To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CZ] CZECH Genealogy Forms > >Peter -- are you talking about forms that you would fill in yourself >.... >or are you talking about forums - other mailing lists where you can >search >for other people researching the same names as you. > >If it is forums or mailing lists, go to www.rootsweb.com > >At the top of the page, you will see Mailing Lists -- click on that ... >scroll down to International and click on Czech Republic. There are >quite a >few lists besides this one. (I think most of the lists are in English) >I >think most people searching and researching subscribe to more than one >list. >Hope this helps. Susan > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: > CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual >messages) > CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of >multiple messages) > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively >handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal >problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an >email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate >for list discussion. > >

Susan--I'm fairly new to genealogy search. I signed up for this mailing list several months ago. I see there is a german-bohemian mailing list. My mother told me that my grandparents spoke German. They came from Western Bohemia which is close to the German border. My mother knew her mother came from Czechoslovakia, but thought her father came from Austria, which is what he always said. We found a paper written by my late Aunt that gave us names of great-grandparents on both sides. At least I know what area my grandmother came from, but on the paper it just said my grandfather was from Bohemia. I'm thinking that that I should sign up on this mailing list. I was always wondering if there were others whose ancestors spoke German but lived in Bohemia. I find other's queries interesting. Thanks! Susan Williams <swilliams1200@comcast.net> wrote: Peter -- are you talking about forms that you would fill in yourself .... or are you talking about forums - other mailing lists where you can search for other people researching the same names as you. If it is forums or mailing lists, go to www.rootsweb.com At the top of the page, you will see Mailing Lists -- click on that ... scroll down to International and click on Czech Republic. There are quite a few lists besides this one. (I think most of the lists are in English) I think most people searching and researching subscribe to more than one list. Hope this helps. Susan ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe, send an e-mail message to: CZECH-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) CZECH-D-request@rootsweb.com (for a digest of multiple messages) In the body include only one word: unsubscribe --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year

John Dvorak (and list) - I've been on this list for a few years and have followed John's adventures researching his Dvorak line. I wish I was so successful. Nobody seems to know where my grandfather Dvorak came from in Bohemia or his family. All we know is his family died shortly after their arrival to St. Louis (abt 1883) as a young teen, was the only survivor, and was taken in by another family (also unknown) until he was a young adult. I am very familiar with Antonin Dvorak. According to several family members, including my father, Antonin is my great grand uncle. BUT, not from my Dvorak grandfather, BUT from my great grandmother Barbara Bochnicek, It was just so happened their daughter, Mary, married a Dvorak. Apparently my great grandparents were quite concerned about this and finally determined there was no connection to Antonin's family. I have not confirmed that my gr-grandmother Barbara is actually related to Antonin, or what her relationship was to him. This is something I'm working on. - Some tidbits - Some list members may be familiar with the book "Antonin Dvorak, My Father" by Otakar Dvorak. On page xvii, last sentence of the last paragraph, it states; "The first Dvorak relative born in Nelahozeves was Dr. Dvorak's aunt Barbara, born in house number 7 in 1823." We believed my gr-grandmother, born abt 1844, was either a daughter, sister, or at least named after this Barbara. Unfortunately, the author did not source or make further mention of this aunt in his book. John - if you're interested in other clues, please contact me privately. Lynn Brown > > > Hi Lynn. Nice to meet you.....My name was originally Dvorzhak > too......but most of my family just says Dvorak.........It's > amazing in the mail how many variations of the name there are. > Dorvak, Drovak......Dovak......Just amazing but Dvorak the way the > composer pronounced it is the original way that we pronounced our > name,........(You DO know the composer Antonin Dvorak, don't you? > AHAHHAHAHAHAH) >> >>John - I, too, have a grandparent "John Dvorak" and for the first >>10 years living in Missouri, he spelled "Dvorak" as "Deworack", >>then it was changed to "Dworak", and then finally back to >>"Dvorak". When I inquired through family lines why the changes in >>spelling, I was told 1) when he first came here, the change was >>"political", wanting a hard "ack" [D-VOR-ACK] because everyone >>pronouced his name as "De-zore-sack". Later, as he learned >>English, it became Dvorak, and we pronouce it with a hard "ack". >>[no one speaks Bohomian or Czech in the family anymore - a shame]. >> >> >> Lynn Brown (Dvorak) >> -- Visit my genealogy website: http://webs.lanset.com/lingbro Key surnames: BOCHNICEK, BROD, BROZ, DVORAK, GRAHAM, HRASKY, ONTL, PETRAN, PAZDERA, SMRCKA, STEUERNAGEL, TOUPAL, VANICEK, VOKRACKA and more, most from Missouri, Illinois and New York areas. "ALL INCOMING AND OUTGOING E-MAIL IS SCANNED WITH NORTON ANTI-VIRUS, updated daily"

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Doug, Czech-L's webpage is at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/index.htm and contains the list of surnames as well as a format for submitting your surnames. Good luck with your research. Elaine Hello DMikolasek On Thursday, May 20, 2004, you wrote > Please add MIKOLASEK to the Czech surname list. > Doug Mikolasek