I am also involved in researching Radkovice [Radkowitz] - Surname BOCHNICEK / BOCHNISCHEK [german spelling]. I contacted this list and got several very helpful replies on 2 Jun 2002. The following was shared with me. 1) Sent by Felix Gundacker: "There are 3 Radkowitz in former Bohemia, and 1 in Moravia. All have the name Radkovice now. Radkowitz parish Budec, Moravia. The records are in the Bohemian Archives of Trebon and begin in 1657. Radkowitz, parish Cestice, Bohemia - Records are in the Bohemian Archives of Trebon and begin in 1674. Radkowitz, parish Horsice - records are in the Bohemian Archives of Pizsen and begin in 1744. This village also belongs to the parish of Prestice with records since 1875. Radkowitz, parish Mecin - records are in the Bohemian archives of Pizen and begin in 1715." Our Karen Hobbs on the list discussed several months ago of locating cluster of surnames using the Austrian military records "Grundbuchblatter Diverse/Diverse 1" - I found a BOCHNICEK in Radkowitz near ??? looks like Kluttan [old German script] in 1841. Later, someone wrote in fine print to the side "P.Pilsen" - so I'm zeroing in on Mecin as a good possibility. Part of my problem is Radkovice, Prestice is SE of Prestice, and further SE is another Radkovice, Horsice. They are very close to each other. Further SE, and NE of Mecin is the other Radkovice, Mecin. I didn't check out Moravia. My ggrandparents immigrated from Radkowitz, on the ship Bark Capella, sailing from Bremen arriving Baltimore, MD 27 May 1867. With them were 15 other persons listing their village as Radkowitz, 4 from Malinetz, 2 from Zinkovy, 1 from Radachow, all traveling together for St. Louis. In using http://mapy,altas.cz/ found all these villages closest to Mecin. - which is where I think I'll research next. - If anyone has further suggestions - I'm all ears. There was a Johann Mrasek, musician, age 18 from Radkowitz traveling with this group. Lynn Brown, California > > Hello Mary, > > Thank you kindly for helping out. I took a look at this site and now I'm > wondering how you got Trebon. The return I got for Radkovice was > the following parishes: Mecin, Horsice/Prestice, Cestice, Budec, > and Radkovice. > They were in the former crownland of Böhmen or Mähren. > > When I looked up Strakonice, I got the parish of Strakonice in crownland of > Böhmen, so I was wondering if that limited the possible Radkovice returns to > Mecin, Horsice/Prestice, or Cestice as the other two are in former > crownland > of Mähren. > > I'm very new to my Czech. ancestral research, so please forgive me > for any > seemingly stupid questions! > > Carol > > -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: [CZ] Komrska and Malecek > > > Hi Carol, > > You can find which archive has your villages' records at this > webpage: > > http://www.ihff.at/indexstarte.php?src=IHFF_Gazetteer.htm > > It appears that the Radkovice records are at Trebon. > > Good luck with your research! > > Mary > -- Visit my genealogy website: http://webs.lanset.com/lingbro Key surnames: BOCHNICEK, BROD, BROZ, DVORAK, GRAHAM, HRASKY, ONTL, PETRAN, PAZDERA, SMRCKA, STEUERNAGEL, TOUPAL, VANICEK, VOKRACKA and more, most from Missouri, Illinois and New York areas. "ALL INCOMING AND OUTGOING E-MAIL IS SCANNED WITH NORTON ANTI-VIRUS, updated daily"

Hello Mary, Thank you kindly for helping out. I took a look at this site and now I'm wondering how you got Trebon. The return I got for Radkovice was the following parishes: Mecin, Horsice/Prestice, Cestice, Budec, and Radkovice. They were in the former crownland of Böhmen or Mähren. When I looked up Strakonice, I got the parish of Strakonice in crownland of Böhmen, so I was wondering if that limited the possible Radkovice returns to Mecin, Horsice/Prestice, or Cestice as the other two are in former crownland of Mähren. I'm very new to my Czech. ancestral research, so please forgive me for any seemingly stupid questions! Carol -----Original Message----- From: Mary Boyd [mailto:mdb@open.org] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:36 AM To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CZ] Komrska and Malecek Hi Carol, You can find which archive has your villages' records at this webpage: http://www.ihff.at/indexstarte.php?src=IHFF_Gazetteer.htm It appears that the Radkovice records are at Trebon. Good luck with your research! Mary ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html.

Hi Ron The map is great. I found it easy to use without considering the Czech directions as long as you know where you want to go. I found Vitin no trouble. Frances Hrdina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Mlejnek" <rvmlejnek@navix.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] trip to Czech and looking for ggm house > For locating a town in the Czech Republic, I think one should learn to use > the Mapy web server: > > http://mapy.atlas.cz/aquariusnet/frm_uvod.asp > > A link to it is at the Mail List web site at: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/czgenealogy.htm > > It is under On-Line Research tools. > > ShtetlSeeker has merits, but sometimes it lists towns that no longer exist > except for a possible Jewish cemetery. > > On Mapy, there appears to be only one Vitín listed (note accent over the > last "i"). It is a "stone's throw from Sveten (carka over the "S" and > second "e"). > > Based on the information you provided, I see no need to look further. If > you have any problems locating it, let me know. > > Ron Mlejnek > > > At 03:07 AM 07/11/2004, you wrote: > > > ­Hi > > > > Does anyone have any idea which Vitin would be closest to ­ > > Sevetin in SE Bohemia. I want to make sure I get to the correct > > Vitin where is it? My Michelin doesn't show it but Sheltaseeker on the > > web lists several. One is north and one too far west. There are two close > > to Sevetin. One south and east of Sevetin and north and east of Ceske > > Budjeovice where I will be staying latitudes and longitudes are 49 05 and > > 14 33. This is the one I think it is. The other possibility is north and > > east of Sevetin at 40 35 and 14 22. > > > > I have a house number so can at least find the place if I know what > > town to go to. > > > > My great grandmother Anna Viduna's family is from there. > > > > I will be using public transport as I have a catarack which really > > wants to be removed (when I come back) > > > > I have contacted my researcher but he is mp off working around the > > country and I really need to know by next week as I need to pay for my > > bookings by the 21st and of course want to book for the right place. > > > > Frances Hrdina (in Australia) > > > > > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > >Czech Message Boards are at > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > Please do not repost the whole digest when replying to mail. >

Sorry, I made an error on this posting. THIS IS WRONG: Joseph Komrska b. Apr 1835 married to Anna ??? b. about 1834 (d. 28 Mar 1915 @ 81yrs.) This is CORRECT: Joseph Komrska born about 1826 as he died on 21 Jan 1886 at 60yrs. of age. Anna Komrska was born Apr 1835 according to 1900 census. She is listed widowed then, and went by the name of "Jesie" or "Josie". So I'm wondering if she had a first or second name of Josephine? She died on Mar 28, 1915, by church record at the age of 80yrs., though her obituary listed her as 81yrs. I also had a typing error on St. Louis, Missouri, where St. John Nepomuk's Catholic Church is. I apologize for any confusion -----Original Message----- From: Carol Rogers [mailto:homealot@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:15 PM To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CZ] Komrska and Malecek Hello Listers, I'm new to this list. Originally I was led to believe by older family members that the KOMRSKA and MALECEK lines of our family were originally from Prague. Now I've found in St. John Nepomuc Church records in St. Louis, Missouir, that the Malecek's were from "Studene next Kraliky", and the Komrska's from "Radkovic next Strakonic". From what I can locate via the JewishGen town search map, Studene is 93.8 miles east of Prague and Strakonic is 61.8 miles SSW of Prague. I have access to FHC films, but would like to know what towns hold the records for these two villages. I've been told by a distant cousin who is also researching the Malecek's that Studene records are kept in Zamrsk. So I've ordered film #1181589 from my local Family History Center. But I'm not sure about Radkovic. I recently found an obituary that lists a whole line of children who I believe to be the original emigrants of my Komrska family. That article help greatly in putting all these family members together from a variety of census, church, and death records. Emigrants: Joseph Komrska b. Apr 1835 married to Anna ??? b. about 1834 (d. 28 Mar 1915 @ 81yrs.) Children: 1)Wenceslaus (William) Komrska b. Oct 1849 mg.#1 Mary Medek in U.S. mg.#2 Catherine Had 2)Joseph Komrska b. Jan 1853 mg. Mathilda Jarosik 3)Mary Komrska b. Aug 1858 mg. John Duba 4)Frank (Francis) Komrska b. about 1863 mg. Mary Meyer in U.S. 5)Cyril Komrska Jun 1866 (twin?) mg. Anna Filip in U.S. 6)Method Komrska Jun 1866 (twin?) 7)Rosie Komrska b. Apr 1875 8)Nellie Komrska b. Jan 1878 mg. Louis French >From "Czechoslovakia Immigration Passenger List" Vo. VI: KOMERSKA, J. 60, Anna 48, Cyril 18, Methold 18, Rosalie 11 ; Austria ; Elbe (ship); 31 May 1884 (arrived) According to census records, the others emigrated: William - 1880/1881; Joseph - 1882; Mary - 1884 (married about 1884, also - possibly before emigrating); Nellie - 1884 (not listed with family, though) Frank - 1885 Any help is most appreciated, and I thank you. Carol ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== Czech Message Boards are at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic

Hi Carol, You can find which archive has your villages' records at this webpage: http://www.ihff.at/indexstarte.php?src=IHFF_Gazetteer.htm It appears that the Radkovice records are at Trebon. Good luck with your research! Mary

Hello Listers, I'm new to this list. Originally I was led to believe by older family members that the KOMRSKA and MALECEK lines of our family were originally from Prague. Now I've found in St. John Nepomuc Church records in St. Louis, Missouir, that the Malecek's were from "Studene next Kraliky", and the Komrska's from "Radkovic next Strakonic". From what I can locate via the JewishGen town search map, Studene is 93.8 miles east of Prague and Strakonic is 61.8 miles SSW of Prague. I have access to FHC films, but would like to know what towns hold the records for these two villages. I've been told by a distant cousin who is also researching the Malecek's that Studene records are kept in Zamrsk. So I've ordered film #1181589 from my local Family History Center. But I'm not sure about Radkovic. I recently found an obituary that lists a whole line of children who I believe to be the original emigrants of my Komrska family. That article help greatly in putting all these family members together from a variety of census, church, and death records. Emigrants: Joseph Komrska b. Apr 1835 married to Anna ??? b. about 1834 (d. 28 Mar 1915 @ 81yrs.) Children: 1)Wenceslaus (William) Komrska b. Oct 1849 mg.#1 Mary Medek in U.S. mg.#2 Catherine Had 2)Joseph Komrska b. Jan 1853 mg. Mathilda Jarosik 3)Mary Komrska b. Aug 1858 mg. John Duba 4)Frank (Francis) Komrska b. about 1863 mg. Mary Meyer in U.S. 5)Cyril Komrska Jun 1866 (twin?) mg. Anna Filip in U.S. 6)Method Komrska Jun 1866 (twin?) 7)Rosie Komrska b. Apr 1875 8)Nellie Komrska b. Jan 1878 mg. Louis French From "Czechoslovakia Immigration Passenger List" Vo. VI: KOMERSKA, J. 60, Anna 48, Cyril 18, Methold 18, Rosalie 11 ; Austria ; Elbe (ship); 31 May 1884 (arrived) According to census records, the others emigrated: William - 1880/1881; Joseph - 1882; Mary - 1884 (married about 1884, also - possibly before emigrating); Nellie - 1884 (not listed with family, though) Frank - 1885 Any help is most appreciated, and I thank you. Carol

Hi Mary. Is there any way to find English with the photo album of the cemetaries? A beautiful site. Thanks. Cleone

This name came to the list some time ago, via Timothy E. If any one has any information on this name, KRAL, would you please let me know about what has been found out? The JOSEF KRAL that I found went to the same address on the manifest as my grandmother. thanks. C&C

Debbie is not in subscription. Please reply directly to her. Debbie Holtzendorff <Debbie@Holtzendorff.com> Elaine Hello Debbie On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, you wrote > I am trying to verify information. I found on ancestry.com the following > Baca Book Vol 9 information: > Franz Becvar, year 1889, age 30, place Baltimore > Antonie Becvar, age 26 > Johann Becvar, age 20 > Maria Becvar, age 17 > Is there more information in Volume 9 about what ship and was it an > arrival in Baltimore? > Are these ship manifests online anywhere? > Thanks, Debbie Holtzendorff @ www.Holtzendorff.com

­Hi Thanks to everyone who replied to my request to locate Vitin. I think I have the correct one now. Frances Hrdina ­

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Francis writes: Does anyone have any idea which Vitin would be closest to =AD Sevetin in SE Bohemia Hi Francis ! On my train map I dont see this VITIN ....there is a Vitineves, BUT it is NE of Praha. I do find your Sevetin, it is on the train Rte # 220, which will also take you to Ceske Budejovice. This is a long train Rte that starts as the 221 going S of Praha, then thru Benesov and appears to change to the 220 and keeps going S thru Tabor. I would take a map w/ you and show them you want Vitin, near Sevetin. Maybe they can find it. AH HAH ! I found it, it looks to be VERY CLOSE to Sevetin, I find it on my Administrative Map" Euroclub/Geoclub. You will find this brand of map in all the book stores. Looking here it looks like the train Rte 220, goes farther S of Vitin, than the main road thru Sevetin and Vitin...so, take a taxi, it looks like its cant be any more than 5 Km. .6 miles = 1 KM ... Vitin is in the LR corner of the Grid F4, on this map, NE of Ceske Budejovice Good Luck, write back if need be... Hope you can tour Ceske Krumlov ... you will be so close! Regards, Mike in AZ SWARTZ~SVARC / CERNY / HAJEK / HOSEK / KREISSINGER / CERMAK

Thought I'd jump in and mention a great travel agent in Prague. We've used the twice and have been VERY pleased with their service, prices and accommodations. It used to be called Tom's Travel but now goes by travel.cz (http://www.travel.cz). We just got back a couple weeks ago and had a GREAT apartment a block from Old Town Square on Dusni. It was actually cheaper than a hotel room and much more room and comfort. David ps: no affiliation with travel.cz ... just a happy customer

For locating a town in the Czech Republic, I think one should learn to use the Mapy web server: http://mapy.atlas.cz/aquariusnet/frm_uvod.asp A link to it is at the Mail List web site at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/czgenealogy.htm It is under On-Line Research tools. ShtetlSeeker has merits, but sometimes it lists towns that no longer exist except for a possible Jewish cemetery. On Mapy, there appears to be only one Vitín listed (note accent over the last "i"). It is a "stone's throw from Sveten (carka over the "S" and second "e"). Based on the information you provided, I see no need to look further. If you have any problems locating it, let me know. Ron Mlejnek At 03:07 AM 07/11/2004, you wrote: > ­Hi > > Does anyone have any idea which Vitin would be closest to ­ > Sevetin in SE Bohemia. I want to make sure I get to the correct > Vitin where is it? My Michelin doesn't show it but Sheltaseeker on the > web lists several. One is north and one too far west. There are two close > to Sevetin. One south and east of Sevetin and north and east of Ceske > Budjeovice where I will be staying latitudes and longitudes are 49 05 and > 14 33. This is the one I think it is. The other possibility is north and > east of Sevetin at 40 35 and 14 22. > > I have a house number so can at least find the place if I know what > town to go to. > > My great grandmother Anna Viduna's family is from there. > > I will be using public transport as I have a catarack which really > wants to be removed (when I come back) > > I have contacted my researcher but he is mp off working around the > country and I really need to know by next week as I need to pay for my > bookings by the 21st and of course want to book for the right place. > > Frances Hrdina (in Australia) > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== >Czech Message Boards are at >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic

­Hi Does anyone have any idea which Vitin would be closest to ­ Sevetin in SE Bohemia. I want to make sure I get to the correct Vitin where is it? My Michelin doesn't show it but Sheltaseeker on the web lists several. One is north and one too far west. There are two close to Sevetin. One south and east of Sevetin and north and east of Ceske Budjeovice where I will be staying latitudes and longitudes are 49 05 and 14 33. This is the one I think it is. The other possibility is north and east of Sevetin at 40 35 and 14 22. I have a house number so can at least find the place if I know what town to go to. My great grandmother Anna Viduna's family is from there. I will be using public transport as I have a catarack which really wants to be removed (when I come back) I have contacted my researcher but he is mp off working around the country and I really need to know by next week as I need to pay for my bookings by the 21st and of course want to book for the right place. Frances Hrdina (in Australia)

Dear friends, Land registers also contain many interesting facts about the prices of the properties (what were in different numbers and currency, and changed during the times), the number and types of domestic animals and fruit trees held by the farmstead holder, about their taxes, debts and heritages, about the drudgery (robota) and other obligations of the peasant to the landlords. Land registers often tell the thrilling stories. Land registers sometimes also cite destroyed and deserted farmsteads as the consequences of wars or natural disasters. Another interesting fact that the land registers include, is the problem of escaped peasants. It happened sometimes that the holder left his farmstead and escaped to another dominion. He escaped mainly due to debts but sometimes also for excessive obligation in drudgery (robota). Another reason for escaping was the oppression against the non-catholic peasants. It was the reason of the massive escape of the Moravian Brethren, which is also referenced in the Land registers. The registers often tell about the great history, seen from the perspective of ordinary people I prepared for you several interesting examples what I read in the land records: Regional Archive of Opava, Land registers of village Morkov, book 1327 Purchase of Martin Machatz 1685,May 12,. Martin Machacz bought his farmstead for 30 guilders, advance payment 18 guilders, rest of the summ will pay by 2 guilders yearly He had to pay the rest of 2 guilders, It will be paid to Landlords instead of escaped Susanna, Ewa a Katerina. Also Václav Gyndra had a right for 6 guilders but after the death of the father he stolen a cow Therefore he will not paid. f.48r --------- Regional Archive of Opava, Land registers of village Morkov, book 1327 Purchase of Jura Matzitzek junior 1683,Jan14, Jura Matzitzek junior bought his farmstead for 60 guilders, advance payment 13 guilders, rest of the summ will pay by 3 guilders yearly in 3 terms. He had to pay the rest of 30 guilders. 11 gl. To "Jura Jurzitzek hers or creditors": To Jura for marriage 1 guilder, to Jan for marriage 2 guilders, to Anna wife of Jakub Blaschke in Libhost 3 guilders 13 gl., to widow Magdalena 29 gl., To Jakub in village 13 guilders, to landlords instead of escaped Martin 3 guilders 28 gl., to landlords instead of Marianna who had a child out of wedlock 3 guilders 28 gl., to Ondra 3 guilders 29 gl., to Rosina wife of Jan Matzitzek 3 guilders 29 gl., to Jura 3 guilders 29 gl., to Jan 3 guilders. 29 gl. f.12r --------------- Regional Archive of Opava, Land registers of village Suchdol n. O. (Zauchtel), book E 13-12 Folio 139 Farmstead (later #19) In 1596 at Friday before Reminisare - sold by Barthl Winter to Martin Nitschmann for 122 Thaler 25 guilders He had to pay an advance payment 30 Thaler in one term. Yearly he will pay 2 Thaler 24 guilders until the time when the amount of money will be paid. ... to the farmstead belonged 2 horses, waggon, harrow, one plough. Folio 140 On 2 December 1622 - sold by Martin Nitschmann to Valter Popp for 140 Thaler 25 guilders He had to pay as advance payment 45 Thaler in 2 terms. Yearly he will pay 3 Thaler until the time when the amount of money will be paid. ... to the farmstead belonged 2 horses, waggon, harrows, one plough. The buyer had to give to 3 sons of the previous holder 1 ½ Schefel of wheat... On 18 May 1632 - bought by Greger Schindler for 50 Thaler ... ... to the farmstead belonged 1 horse, 1 harrow, one plough.... On 24 April 1652 - bought by Michl Fritsch for 124 Thaler. He had to pay as advance payment 50 Thaler in 4 yearly terms. Yearly he will pay 2 Thaler until the time when the amount of money will be paid. Folio 141 On 2 December 1622 - after death of Michl Fritsch (sic!) bought by his son Hans Fritsch. He had to pay as advance payment 50 Thaler in 3 yearly terms. Yearly he will pay 2 Thaler until the time when the amount of money will be paid.... Folio 142 ... he had to give 7 beds of rye to his brother Michl... 3 cows for the widowed mother. On 10 December 1723 - sold by widowed Juditha Fritsch to her son David Fritsch for 150 Thaler. He had to pay as advance payment 60 Thaler in 4 following terms. Folio 143 15 Thaler now and 15 Thaler yearly in St. Martin Day in 1724, 1725, 1726. Folio 144 On 12 August 1726 - bought by Georg Axman for 150 Thaler, after David Fritsch who escaped on 7 July this year, together with his wife and child to Saxony for his Lutheran belief. ---------------------- PROLOGUE: The story of the following farmstead started in the dangerous times of the Thirty Years War (1618-1648). Prior the time when Nikel (Nicolaus) Pop bought the farmstead, one was object of looting of Polish soldiers. Martin Vanura , the previous holder, was probably killed by them. It seems that the mentioned Polish soldiers were the cossack light cavalry, organized by Alexander Lisowski. They were known for their cruelty and in 1620s plundered large areas of Moravia and Silesia. Regional Archive of Opava, Land registers of village Pustejov (1609-1732) Book SPK A-26-10, folio 286 During the Eastern in 1625 died Martin Waniura, holder of the farmstead. Polish troops arrived and stayed a several weeks in the village Pustejov. After them came another armed forces and stayed here until today. This farmstead is deserted and there are not any horses, cows or another cattle, waggon or another items now. Also the fields cannot be used. In the case of delay and when the farmstead will not be hold by some farmer soon, the farmstead could be totally destroyed. This facts was recognized by the Lord Prelate Girzi Schlassius, praepositus of the cloister in the town of Fulnek, as well as by the aldermen of village Pustejov. On 10 February 1628 - the farmstead was sold to Nykel Pop for 180 guilders. He has to pay 21 guilders in advance. He will pay yearly 6 guilders for the first 3 years and later he will pay yearly 4 guilders until the time when the farmstead will paid. He is also obligated to pay a debt after died Martin Wanura, to Matauss Blaheta. Nykel Pop will pay him the debt of 20 guilders, it means 4 guilders yearly. In 1629 - Nykel Pop paid 21 guilders as advance payment ............ On 26 January 1654 - Nykel Pop paid 4 guilders as yearly payment. The debt of 20 guilders is already paid, now. In 1653 - Mathuss Pop bought the farmstead from his father Nikel Pop for 300 guilders. He has to pay 100 guilders in advance. It means 12 guilders belonged to him and 5 guilders he will pay yearly. To his father belonged 1 guilder yearly to Nykl Pop , the resting 4 guilders belonged to older account. To this farmstead belonged: 2 horses, waggon, plough, hook, harrow, 2 cows, 1 heifer, 2 swines, 3 hens. He has to pay a wedding celebration to Maryna as well as to Jan and Tomek, includes 12 guilders and 1 stallion to them. On 4 March 1659 - Matuss Pop paid 4 guilders and 1 guilder for his father On 2 March 1660- Matuss Pop gave 12 guilders for his brother Jan includes 1 stallion On 27 February 1662 - Matuss Pop gave the mentioned money for his brother Tomek, instead the stallion he paid him 15 guilders On 23 January 1676 - Matuss Pop paid the yearly money ............... On 14 February 1686 - Matuss Pop paid the yearly money ---------------- All the best, Martin Pytr, CZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hoskins" <FHOSKINS@mn.rr.com> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [CZ] Re: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > I would also be interested in an example of land records. thanks Darla > Hoskins (Barta) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Pytr" <maxi@raz-dva.cz> > To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:56 PM > Subject: [CZ] Re: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > > > > Dear Carl, > > > > My name is Martin Pytr, I am a full-time researcher and I live at northern > > Moravia. > > Several times I worked with land records, stored at Zemsky Archiv at > Opava, > > where are stored records from northern Moravia and Czech Silesia. > > Land records as resources for genealogy was on of my presentations at > CGSI > > conference at Houston, last year (www.cgsi.org) > > > > ------ > > Land registers are stored in the Regional State Archives. Records > described > > mainly the changes of the holders of farmsteads, houses and and another > > immovables. The records tells not only about the succession of farmstead > > holders by the time but often also about their material relations and > duties > > to the parents and siblings. New holder had to pay to siblings their parts > > and also to care about the former holders, who were mostly his parents. > > In the land registers are also written a lot of interesting facts about > the > > prices of the properties (what were in different numbers and curency, and > > changed during the times), numbers and kinds of domestic animals and fruit > > trees hold by the farmstead holder, bout their taxes, debts and heritages, > > about the drudgery and another obligations of the peasant to the > landlords. > > Land registers sometimes referred also about destroyed and deserted > > farmsteads as the consequences of wars or natural disasters. Another > > interesting fact what the land registers refering about, is problem of the > > escaping peasants. It happened sometimes that the holder left his > farmstead > > and escaped to the another domain. It was mainly for the debts but > sometimes > > also for too high number of obligation in drudgery or for confessional > > oppression. > > Land registers are written in Czech and German languages, since the end of > > the 18th century the records were written in German language also in Czech > > speaking areas. > > ------- > > > > If you wish I can send you some examples of land records. > > I am also ready to research in the land registers for you. > > > > Martin Pytr > > Potocni 381 > > MORKOV 742 72 > > Czech Republic > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Linert" <carlgenlnrt@yahoo.com> > > To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:25 PM > > Subject: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > > > > > > > I will post this message again. Hope to get some > > > responses this time. > > > > > > Has anybody on the list ever researched the land > > > records from the Czech archives, particularly in the > > > Northern Moravia area? Just curious about > > > how useful they are in genealogical research. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > > All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > > handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > > problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > > email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > > for list discussion. > > > > ______________________________

Dear Ron, 1) The "main archives" (Regional State Archives) in the Czech Republic are called Státní Oblastní Archiv (SOA) or Zemsky Archiv (ZA): SOA Prague - Central Bohemia SOA Litomerice - Northern Bohemia SOA Trebon - Southern Bohemia SOA Zámrsk - Eastern Bohemia SOA Plzen - Western Bohemia ZA Brno - Southern Moravia ZA Opava - Northern Moravia and Silesia In the mentioned regional archives are stored the most imporatant resources for genealogists: -Church vital registers (birth, wedding and death records) -Land registers (I already described in my previous contribution) There is possible to find also various another resources but it is hard to list it all.But very usefull are the Fonds of the Domains (fondy velkostatku). To this Fond belonged also the mentioned Land registers but there are listed more resources, some of them are also helpfull to genealogy (books of wedding contracts etc.). It is necessery to know to which Domain belonged the homeplace of your ancestors, but in the archives are inventary where is posssible to find it. But the situation in different domains is different. For example in the fond of the domain Lipnik (ZA Opava) are stored land records of Lipnik since 1488 but the oldest land records in the domain Kaderin (ZA Opava) are dated since 1803, only. District archives are called Okresní Archiv. District archives are located in district capital towns (all of them are listed here: http://www.mesta-obce.cz includes the map of the administrative division). There is also possible to find interesting information about ancestors but differences among the various district archives are bigger than differences among SOAs. In District Archives, I am usually searching for census records. For researchers are available following records, there: 1857 - Census of Austrian Empire 1869 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1880 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1890 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1900 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1910 - Census of Austro-Hungarian Empire 1921 - Census of Czechoslovakia NOTE: Relative big number of the Census Registers were missed! It means that for my home village Morkov (Okresni archiv Novy Jicin) are missed data from census 1857, for Vratimov (Okresni archiv Frydek-Mistek) are available census data since 1910, for Komorni Lhotka (Okresni archiv Karvina) were all the census data missed. Census records were sorted by the numbered houses, and it is possible to get following data about the persons living there: Name and Surname Date of Birth Relation to the housekeeper Family Status Religion (Denomination) Literacy Occupation Birthplace Number and kinds of the domestic animals Census records as resources for genealogy was one of my presentations at CGSI conference at Houston, last year (www.cgsi.org) Generally the searching in District Archives is a kind of lottery. What is possible to get in one archive, in another archives is missed and vice versa. In Okresni archiv Frydek-Mistek are even stored passport requests of the people who emigrated to America, but in the district archives of Novy Jicin and Vsetin are this kind of data missed. 2) Comparing the researching in vital registers and land records Researching in land records is more difficult and needs an experienced researcher. Researcher needs to know the read the ancient handwritten script and to read German. Yes, in vital registers it is also necessery but there is only a few terms what is sufficient to know: father, mother, farmer, miller, son, daughter etc. But Land records are written in difficult archic sentences, and some terms are written in local German dialects, a lot of archaic terms are difficult to find in dictionaries. From the another hand when your ancestors lived in one house for several centuries, you can see all the generations of the owners there. Land registers are written in Czech and German languages. Since the end of the 18th century the records were written in the German language also in Czech speaking areas. Researching in the Land registers requires an experieced researcher, not only because of the various languages and the ancient handwritten script. A larger problem exists with the ancient terms and units used in the registers. Units of area, volume and currency were different, not only in various time periods, but even in the various regions. To show the complications in the currency until the end of 18th century I prepared some examples. 1 guilder in Bohemia means 30 krejcar, but in Silesia it was 33 krejcars. Can you imagine paying 100 cents for $1 in Texas, 90 cents in Minnesota and 110 cents in California? A similar situation existed also in the system of the units of area, length, weight and volume. 3) Land records of Nasedlovice had to be in ZA Brno. To know more about it is necessery to contact the archive, there. More about Czech arvives (in Czech) is on the website of the Czech Ministry of Inner Affairs here: www.mvcr.cz/archivy All the best, Martin Pytr Potocni 381 742 72 MORKOV Czech Republic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Mlejnek" <rvmlejnek@navix.net> To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [CZ] Re: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > To: Czech Mail List > > Martin Pytr is listed as a professional researcher at the CZECH Mail List > web site: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/Czech_Researchers.htm > > The link to this page is found on the home page: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~elainetmaddox/index.htm > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------- > > To: Martin Pytr > > I, like many others, have had an interest in accessing land records and the > other records described by Karel Kysilka: > > http://members.tripod.com/~zlimpkk/Genealogy/brnoarchives.html > > Can you make a general statement about the differences between the records > held by the main archives in Prague and Brno compared to the district > archives? Are the district archives more complete for that region. > > Secondly, how difficult is it to locate these records in a given archive > compared to the Vital Registers? Does it taker many days of searching to > find one family or are there indexes available at trhe archive to locate > these records easily? > > Lastly, how extensive are these holdings on a percentage basis? For > example, I have a family that lived in Nasedlovice, Moravia and they > apparently were members of a Protestant Evangelical sect. Registries for > the Evangelical parish (and all Catholic registries) were searched but did > not provide any vital records on this one particular family. Would land > records provide information about this family circa 1800 and would they be > in Brno? > > Personally, thank you for responding to the question because this topic has > been brought up many time before with no informative discussions. > > Ron Mlejnek > > At 12:56 PM 07/07/2004, you wrote: > > >Dear Carl, > > > >My name is Martin Pytr, I am a full-time researcher and I live at northern > >Moravia. > >Several times I worked with land records, stored at Zemsky Archiv at Opava, > >where are stored records from northern Moravia and Czech Silesia. > >Land records as resources for genealogy was on of my presentations at CGSI > >conference at Houston, last year (www.cgsi.org) > > > >------ > >Land registers are stored in the Regional State Archives. Records described > >mainly the changes of the holders of farmsteads, houses and and another > >immovables. The records tells not only about the succession of farmstead > >holders by the time but often also about their material relations and duties > >to the parents and siblings. New holder had to pay to siblings their parts > >and also to care about the former holders, who were mostly his parents. > >In the land registers are also written a lot of interesting facts about the > >prices of the properties (what were in different numbers and curency, and > >changed during the times), numbers and kinds of domestic animals and fruit > >trees hold by the farmstead holder, bout their taxes, debts and heritages, > >about the drudgery and another obligations of the peasant to the landlords. > >Land registers sometimes referred also about destroyed and deserted > >farmsteads as the consequences of wars or natural disasters. Another > >interesting fact what the land registers refering about, is problem of the > >escaping peasants. It happened sometimes that the holder left his farmstead > >and escaped to the another domain. It was mainly for the debts but sometimes > >also for too high number of obligation in drudgery or for confessional > >oppression. > >Land registers are written in Czech and German languages, since the end of > >the 18th century the records were written in German language also in Czech > >speaking areas. > >------- > > > >If you wish I can send you some examples of land records. > >I am also ready to research in the land registers for you. > > > >Martin Pytr > >Potocni 381 > >MORKOV 742 72 > >Czech Republic > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Carl Linert" <carlgenlnrt@yahoo.com> > >To: <CZECH-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:25 PM > >Subject: Land Records in Moravia, CZ Republic > > > > > > > I will post this message again. Hope to get some > > > responses this time. > > > > > > Has anybody on the list ever researched the land > > > records from the Czech archives, particularly in the > > > Northern Moravia area? Just curious about > > > how useful they are in genealogical research. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > >==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > >All matters pertaining to list administration are exclusively > >handled by the List Administrator. If you have personal > >problems, questions or suggestions about list mail send an > >email to the administrator. The subject is not appropriate > >for list discussion. >

Thank you, Kevin. Good Show! Joe

> > From: "Susan Williams" <swilliams1200@comcast.net> > Date: 2004/07/09 Fri PM 03:40:54 CDT > To: CZECH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Re: [CZ] Re: surname Jindela > > Hello Edith, > > I just came back from the library where I checked Vol. VII of the Leo Baca > books. > There were no Jindela's listed in that volume. However, I have asked the > library to obtain another volume for me -- so far it has not come in yet and > it was ordered about two months ago. Coincidently, there is a Jindela in > my family line. > My grandfather was a Jedlicka from Cirkvice, Bohemia (born in New York - > father's name Vincent)- my grandfather, Frank, was born in 1885. My > grandfather had a sister named Emma, born around 1880. Emma had a daughter > known as Hattie (born around 1902). Hattie married a Rudolph Jindela and > had three daughters, Barbara, Mary and Theresa. Wow that was a long story, > wasn't it? What family is left live in Lanoka Harbor, New Jersey -- > unfortunately no male lines to trace from this family. Any of this sound > familiar? Susan W. > > Susan! Yes, this is very familiar. Hattie and Rudolph is my aunt & uncle. Rudolph is my father (Willliam) brother. Rudolph died April 5, 1956 and Hattie died a few years back at the age of 91. She did live with her daughter in Lanoka Harbor, NJ. Do you know what town/village in Bohemia the Jindela's originated from? We went to Czechoslovakia in 1993 as I visited the town of Malesov where the Steffel's originated (my mother's side of the family) I did not find anything on the Jindela's. Thank you for your reply. Any other info would be appreciated or if you want any furhter info on the JIndela's in New Jersey I'll try to help you as I live in N.J. Regards=Edith Jindela-Van Miert > > ==== CZECH Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without > permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use > Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html. > >

Thanks for the Pilsen hotel name. It sounds very good. We have stayed in a Slovan hotel before in Ceske Budejovice (also recently remodelled) and really nice...right on the square. I didn't know there was one in Pilsen. Will check into it.