Anybody know where the St. Mary's folks were buried from 1832 to 1900's? I know St. Bernard's and later St. Lawrence I was in New Haven yesterday and went into St. Mary's Church. Very Impressive!! Bob Martin, CSG #17217 Tolland, Ct. USA Visit my site at http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=martinrf -----Original Message----- From: JUDYSPHIL@aol.com [mailto:JUDYSPHIL@aol.com] Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 9:41 PM To: CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernards cemetery "St. Bernard's, the first Roman Catholic cemetery in New haven, was opened in 1879 at the corner of Columbus Ave. and the Boulevard. The date, Sept. 2, 1851, appears on the stone gate and probably indicates the original purchase of the land. On the outskirts of town, swampy and odoriferous, the land was undesirable for housing lots and was consequently purchased at a low price by the Catholics. Mary O"Neill who succumbed to apoplexy was the first person buried there. The cemetery provided affordable burial for the masses of indigent catholics who poured into New haven and until st. Lawrence opened years later, was the only cemetery for their use." quoted from "Oyster village to melting pot: The Hill section of New Haven by Dr. Robert Lattanzi. ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== To post messages to the New Haven County, CT discussion list, send them to CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I don't know if I explained this to the list but--I found records {school and medical} for my grandmother who grew up in the Gilbert Home in winsted. My mother had tried unsucessfully to obtain ANYTHING from the Home. I wrote a letter and told them that she was not an orphan and I was not seeking adoption information. This seemed to put them in a better frame of mind and I received a report card, medical info and a picture of the Home as well as two addresses of people who were in the home as children {not at the same time as my grandmother. The home was a place for children who had one parent unable to care for the child exactly like the St. Francis Home. Might try that approach. Judy

Just a little info on the lifestyle of another generation. I have two Mary Moran's in New Haven in the 1900 census. One 9 years old the other 8 years old. My Mary is (b 1890). I have a copy of the NH birth records and their is no other Mary Moran except for mine which would be the 9 year old. When I was discussing this, I was told that back in the day - orphanges were the precusor to our modern day care centers. This was true if families were poor and both parents had to work. Or a single parent. This would explain why two Mary's fit my profile. I have written to St Francis Orphanage for info and included an addressed stamped envelope. Hopefully, I will get some type of response, even if it is - we don't do research of old records. cuzmuz ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using FREE Catholic Online Webmail. http://webmail.catholic.org/

I am searching for information on the family of James Welch of Derby (Birmingham) who was born around 1843 in Kilkenny Ireland and came to CT in 1859. He lived at 126 Hawkins St from 1870 to his death in 1906. He married Catherine Duffy (b abt.1841 Louth Ireland) in 1864. Their children were: Margaret 1865 Catherine 1867 Martin 1868 James 1871 un-named boy 1874 The mother died 3 days after the birth of this child, and I can find no trace of him in civil of church records. The 1880 census shows a 6 year old named Edmund Welch in an orphanage in New Haven( St Francis). But I can not get any information on him. James married Julie Hughes in 1875 and had the following children: Mary E (Lizzie) 1876 Thomas 1877 John 1882 Lizzie married James Carey in 1904. She had no children of her own and died in 1943. She did have 3 step sons. Frank Carey, Harold Carey and Joseph Carey Any information would be appreciated Bill in NJ

All the recent talk about St. Bernard's Cemetery is quite interesting to me. Just over a week ago I found out that St. Bernard's may very well be the key to my "genealogical brick wall". I had never heard of the place before. While cleaning her parent's old house my cousin came across a box marked "personal". Among birth and death certificates, she found two cemetery deeds. One dated 1881, where my great grandmother bought a plot. The second documented the sale of a second plot to my great grandfather in 1903. Although my cousin promised to send me a copy of these documents, the date of sale is all I have for now. Oh, what wouldn't I do for a photo of these plots and related cemetery records! Divina PS - We often complain but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I have to say that I was extremely well served by the people at St. Lawrence's. A couple of years back, I called and within 24 hrs they had provided me with all information they had on record on my Murrays. I did have specific death dates for some of my dead. (If I had have a very general question probably I would still be waiting!) So cuzmuz, you may get lucky too!

"St. Bernard's, the first Roman Catholic cemetery in New haven, was opened in 1879 at the corner of Columbus Ave. and the Boulevard. The date, Sept. 2, 1851, appears on the stone gate and probably indicates the original purchase of the land. On the outskirts of town, swampy and odoriferous, the land was undesirable for housing lots and was consequently purchased at a low price by the Catholics. Mary O"Neill who succumbed to apoplexy was the first person buried there. The cemetery provided affordable burial for the masses of indigent catholics who poured into New haven and until st. Lawrence opened years later, was the only cemetery for their use." quoted from "Oyster village to melting pot: The Hill section of New Haven by Dr. Robert Lattanzi.

Hello Judy, Great information. Thank you. John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR ----- Original Message ----- From: <JUDYSPHIL@aol.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 8:40 PM Subject: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernards cemetery > "St. Bernard's, the first Roman Catholic cemetery in New haven, was opened in > 1879 at the corner of Columbus Ave. and the Boulevard. The date, Sept. 2, > 1851, appears on the stone gate and probably indicates the original purchase of > the land. On the outskirts of town, swampy and odoriferous, the land was > undesirable for housing lots and was consequently purchased at a low price by the > Catholics. Mary O"Neill who succumbed to apoplexy was the first person buried > there. The cemetery provided affordable burial for the masses of indigent > catholics who poured into New haven and until st. Lawrence opened years later, > was the only cemetery for their use." quoted from "Oyster village to melting > pot: The Hill section of New Haven by Dr. Robert Lattanzi. > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > To post messages to the New Haven County, CT discussion list, send them to > CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

The records for this cemetery at held at St. Lawrence Cemetery. Unfortunately, for years St. Bernard's was neglected and although the cemetery is well groomed now, there are no location markers. The staff at St. Lawrence do not share the genealogists interests and are most unhelpful unless you go to the office. Even then they will only look up 2-3 plots. By the way, they have 2 sets of records (they do not always share that information). The date of burial book and the purchasers book. If they can't find it by date of burial they CAN look up the name of the person (and all those in the plot) who purchased the plot. Kathi

Hello Maxine, Thank you for your response. I am not surprised at the practice that you describe. In most of Europe, it is a common practice. Generally, you lease a plot for 25 years. If you do not re-lease the plot, the headstone is removed (and frequently used as a paving stone on a walkway) and the plot is leased to another. Again, I thank you for your response. John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxine Wilton" <mmwaw@sprynet.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernard's cemetery > I have been told that some of these old cemeteries that are getting short > on burial places have taken out many old markers and are reselling the > plots and reusing them. Some have already been caught doing this. in the > south. Maybe you have heard about this in the news. > Maybe that is why they don't find persons names in the cem list and check as > to who bought the plot. > Also with old stones gone and can't find them in cem records they can claim > they weren't bur there. > Check and see if the Cem has ever been invetoried by a Genealogical Soc. or > a Historical Soc. Many did this to make a book of burials in Cem's to have > to sell. > Get on the Uniyted States Cemetery Listings. Then go to State then to > County and check the names of cem. > > Maxine > mmwaw@sprynet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Kgbmp@aol.com> > To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 5:53 PM > Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernard's cemetery > > > > The records for this cemetery at held at St. Lawrence Cemetery. > > Unfortunately, for years St. Bernard's was neglected and although the > cemetery is well > > groomed now, there are no location markers. The staff at St. Lawrence do > not share > > the genealogists interests and are most unhelpful unless you go to the > > office. Even then they will only look up 2-3 plots. > > > > By the way, they have 2 sets of records (they do not always share that > > information). The date of burial book and the purchasers book. If they > can't find it > > by date of burial they CAN look up the name of the person (and all those > in > > the plot) who purchased the plot. > > > > Kathi > > > > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > > Need to reach Colleen, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > > at <ladyaudris@earthlink.net>. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Need to reach Colleen, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > at <ladyaudris@earthlink.net>. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hello Kathi, Thank you for your response to my query. Your information concerning the two sets of records is most interesting. You are quite correct that the people at St. Lawrence's did not divulge the second set of records, when I visited them some years ago. At the time of my visit to St. Bernard's (probably 1992) it was completely overgrown and in deplorable condition. It is most unfortunate that these people are so "tight-fisted" with what should be public information. But, it is not an uncommon response to we poor genealogists. Again, thank you for your response. My best regards, John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kgbmp@aol.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernard's cemetery > The records for this cemetery at held at St. Lawrence Cemetery. > Unfortunately, for years St. Bernard's was neglected and although the cemetery is well > groomed now, there are no location markers. The staff at St. Lawrence do not share > the genealogists interests and are most unhelpful unless you go to the > office. Even then they will only look up 2-3 plots. > > By the way, they have 2 sets of records (they do not always share that > information). The date of burial book and the purchasers book. If they can't find it > by date of burial they CAN look up the name of the person (and all those in > the plot) who purchased the plot. > > Kathi > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Need to reach Colleen, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > at <ladyaudris@earthlink.net>. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Helen, Thank you for your response to my query. I am very glad to hear that you were successful (after 6+ months + help from a local) in obtaining the burial records that you sought. It is most interesting that they were able to produce records from Oct 1876. They told me that they had no records prior to 1885. I guess I was not aggressive enough at the time that I visited their office. My best regards, John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR

Hi cuzmuz, Thank you for your response to my query. It would be wonderful if someone in the New Haven area would record those "book / ledger" records and put them on the web. If I did not live ~1200 miles away, I'd do it. My best regards, John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR

Hi Judy, Thanks for your response. It was most interesting to hear your appellation the "Irish Cemetery" and "St. Patrick's Road". If you do go photographing grave stones, please keep an eye out for: Michael F. Smith, b. ~1844 in County Tipperary, d. 20 March 1878 in New Haven, and Margaret (Moran) Smith, b. ~1845 in County Leitrum, d. 9 February 1889 in New Haven. However, they were dirt poor and probably do not have grave stones. My best regards, John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR

I have been told that some of these old cemeteries that are getting short on burial places have taken out many old markers and are reselling the plots and reusing them. Some have already been caught doing this. in the south. Maybe you have heard about this in the news. Maybe that is why they don't find persons names in the cem list and check as to who bought the plot. Also with old stones gone and can't find them in cem records they can claim they weren't bur there. Check and see if the Cem has ever been invetoried by a Genealogical Soc. or a Historical Soc. Many did this to make a book of burials in Cem's to have to sell. Get on the Uniyted States Cemetery Listings. Then go to State then to County and check the names of cem. Maxine mmwaw@sprynet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kgbmp@aol.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernard's cemetery > The records for this cemetery at held at St. Lawrence Cemetery. > Unfortunately, for years St. Bernard's was neglected and although the cemetery is well > groomed now, there are no location markers. The staff at St. Lawrence do not share > the genealogists interests and are most unhelpful unless you go to the > office. Even then they will only look up 2-3 plots. > > By the way, they have 2 sets of records (they do not always share that > information). The date of burial book and the purchasers book. If they can't find it > by date of burial they CAN look up the name of the person (and all those in > the plot) who purchased the plot. > > Kathi > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Need to reach Colleen, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > at <ladyaudris@earthlink.net>. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

On monday, I will call the NH Historical society because i think they may have info regarding this cemetery. Isn't it included in the barbour collection? I will find out what they have and post it to the list. Judy

John - I have recently(3 wks and now know the wait may be 6 months) spoken with the office at St Bernard/St Lawrence Cemetery. If I remember the conversation correctly, he said prior to about 1925, the records are recorded in a book. In order to check any info, someone has to go through the book, entry by entry. After that there are individual cards which are alphabatized. He asked that I send my request in writing. I would love to get a hold of that ledger and input it into a searchable database. Anyone with connections out in genealogy land? Have you tried the death notice in the paper? This usually gives the burial location. cuzmuz > CTNEWHAV-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 142 > > Today's Topics: > #1 [CTNEWHAV] 1870 Census ["John L. Knabenschuh" > <emt47@mc2k.] #2 [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernards Cemetery R ["John L. > Knabenschuh" <emt47@mc2k.] #3 Re: [CTNEWHAV] St. Bernards Cemete > ["Helen O'Connor" <boconnor@sisna.c] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CTNEWHAV-D, send a message to > > CTNEWHAV-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > To contact the list administrator, send mail to > CTNEWHAV-admin@rootsweb.com. > > ______________________________ ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using FREE Catholic Online Webmail. http://webmail.catholic.org/

St. Bernard's is the "Irish Cemetery' at least toward the back. The stones are remarkable--squite a few having birth place of person and other info. I saw a stone from almost every county in Ireland. A very interesting {and a little unsafe} place. The first catholic baptised in New Haven is buried there altho I can't tell you the name. I could take a few pictures but have to wait for someone to go along with me. Someone told me that the Irish section is called "St. Patrick's Road" don't know how true that is. Judy

John, After searching for years and with help from a local member of this list, I finally received the cemetery record from St. Bernards Cemetery. I am a long distance away, so wrote the cemetery for the information which is now held at the St. Lawrence Cemetery. It took about 6 months or more before I got an answer and I even sent a donation which they returned to me. The cemetery record for the family and plot I was looking for included an entry for Oct. 1876. The cemetery record included five family member's names and month and year of death. Two included the day of burial. The record also included the plot section, lot numbers and avenue. I guess I was lucky. I did try to call the cemetery twice and only got a recorded message. (I think they don't want to be bothered by genealogical questions over the phone.) And yes, the parents of this family were married in St. John's Church about 1860 and when the wife died in 1914, her obituary said she was a life long member of that church. This really doesn't help you, but affirms some of your questions. Helen O'Connor Park City, UT "John L. Knabenschuh" wrote: > Dear List, > > I have been advised that the parishioners of St. John's Catholic Church were buried in St. Bernard's Cemetery in the 1870s-1880s. Is that true? > > Some years ago I visited St. Bernard's Cemetery office and was told that their burial records start at 1885. At that time, I was unable to find any record of a Margaret (Moran) Smith, who died 9 February 1889. Have they since found any burial records earlier than 1885? > > I am searching for the burial records of my great-grandparents - Michael F. Smith, who died 20 March 1878 and his wife > Margaret (Moran) Smith who died 9 February 1889. > > I will appreciate any suggestions that the List might provide as to how I might find the burial place of these two individuals. > > Sincerely, > > John L. Knabenschuh > Garfield, AR > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send your message to <CTNEWHAV-L-request@rootsweb.com> for individual list messages; <CTNEWHAV-D-request@rootsweb.com> for digest messages. Then put the word unsubscribe in the subject line and send your message. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dear List, I have been advised that the parishioners of St. John's Catholic Church were buried in St. Bernard's Cemetery in the 1870s-1880s. Is that true? Some years ago I visited St. Bernard's Cemetery office and was told that their burial records start at 1885. At that time, I was unable to find any record of a Margaret (Moran) Smith, who died 9 February 1889. Have they since found any burial records earlier than 1885? I am searching for the burial records of my great-grandparents - Michael F. Smith, who died 20 March 1878 and his wife Margaret (Moran) Smith who died 9 February 1889. I will appreciate any suggestions that the List might provide as to how I might find the burial place of these two individuals. Sincerely, John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR

Dear List, I have been unsuccessful in locating my great-grandparents in the 1870 New Haven Census. Michael F. Smith, Bricklayer, was shown at 142 Franklin St. in the 1868-1876 New Haven City Directories. Michael married Margaret Moran 2 April 1869 at St. John's Catholic Church. Michael should be about age 25 and Margaret age 24 in 1870 (although they both gave varying ages in the birth records of their children, born Dec 1870 - May 1878). Both Michael and Margaret were born in Ireland. Michael emigrated after 1860 (probably 1863-1865) and died before 1880 (20 Mar 1878), so the only Federal Census that he might appear in, is that for 1870. Margaret (widow of Michael) does appear in the 1880 Census living at the home of John Kelley at 52 Oak St. Questions: Can anyone tell me what Ward, 142 Franklin St. was in, in the 1870 Census? Any suggestions as to how I might proceed to find this couple in the 1870 Census? Thank you in advance, John L. Knabenschuh Garfield, AR