Charles Robin from Paisley, Scotland in 1869 is mine. He settled in Chester where he married Mary Webb and had 2 sons, my grandfather who was John Bell and Louis. I now believe that his mother may have also come over. I can help with Ensign.

My grandmother Evelyn Emogene SELBY (1915-2003) was the only daughter of Harriet Belle WALLACE of Meriden, Conn. and Arthur Richard SELBY, of Ansonia, Conn. The young couple's marriage dissolved after several years (married in 1911; divorced before 1922). Below is the transcription of the second of 2 of Evelyn's letters from my great-grandfather's second wife, after his death in 1949. Christina Auch theauchs@adelphia.net http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~familiesacrosstime/ Posted with a 3 cent stamp from Mrs. Arthur R. Selby 31 Johnson Street Ansonia Connecticut to Mrs. Eugene A. Stead 2122 Campus Road Durham North Carolina March 8, 1950 Dear Evelyn Your letter was so welcome and gave me such real happiness that I just have to write again to to tell you how much I appreciate it, and to thank you for the snapshot of the children. They are darling -- I could hug them. If only Art could have seen them. He loved children so much and they always went to him right away. Perhaps you would like to hear about your "forty 'leven" aunts, uncles, and cousins in the Selby family. Annie (76) and Fannie (72) are the two oldest, both unmarried and living together here in Ansonia. They mother the whole family and are so generous and good hearted. The whole family is great on family gatherings. The snap I sent you is one of the smaller parties. Usually, there are more than twenty. The next sister Lena, died in 1944. Her daughter is Helen Hubbard (41). She ahs four fine boys -- Jack, 17 in April, Tom, 12 in Feb., Ray, 7 in Jan. and Donnie was 2 last November. Tom and Donnie are our god sons and Art and I went out and stayed with the family while Helen was in the hospital when Donnie was born. Helen's brother Joseph (38) and his father live together in Stratford. His little daughter, Selby Jane, and her mother live in Texas. They were divorced a couple of years ago. Tom Selby (66), the only brother and his wife Margaret live in Los Angeles. Their daughter Peggy (about 30) is married and has a little girl, Christie. Tom came East in 1937 but I have never seen his family. Kittie (59) was one of your Mother's bridesmaids. Her husband died three years ago and she is teaching kindergarten in the public schools in New Haven. She has two sons, Ralph (29) and Richard (27). Both grad- uated from Duke (engineers) and both married girls from N.C. Ralph has a little girl, Ruth, 5, and a son Bruce who will be 2 in July. He looks a bit like your little Bill. Richard's wife came from Durham -- Jennie Frizzelle. They have a little girl who will be two in April and are expecting their second baby next week. I am going to Spring- field to stay with Richard and little Jen while Jennie is in the hospital. Helen (55), the youngest of the Selby family also has two married children. Barbara (25) is a medical technician and is at the T.B. San. in Meriden. Bud (24) (her brother is named Ellsworth for his father) is at Bradley Univ. in Peoria and will graduate in June. I haven't said anything to tell you what fine folks they are. They really are a group of very happy families, except the two Joes. They have all been wonderful to me and are a grand crowd. I took Annie, Fannie and Kittie over to Helen's one evening last week. they were all so glad I had written to you and had your reply and were so interested in your children. They were disappointed aas I was, that you didn't send a picture of yourself. I would like very much to have one. Also, Sunday afternoon, I drove up to Meriden and left the dishes I told you of with Mr. and Mrs. Fred Willcox. They have always sent Christmas cards to your Father and I knew of course they would be glad to pass the package along to your Mother. This letter is terrific -- I should never have written so much but it just seems as if I could go on indefinitely to you. I wish I was near enough to "baby sit" for you, too. Jennie says she expects her child will be spoiled but I don't think I'll wreck all her good training entirely in only six days. Please forgive me for running on so. I would love to hear from you again and if there is anything you would like to know about your Father or his family, please ask me. Did you know he had a very fine baritone voice and was soloist in churches for years -- also charter member of men's glee club here. It's a good thing I'm at the end of the page. I won't start another. With best wishes, Sincerely, Edith Selby

My grandmother Evelyn Emogene SELBY (1915-2003) was the only daughter of Harriet Belle WALLACE of Meriden, Conn. and Arthur Richard SELBY, of Ansonia, Conn. The young couple's marriage dissolved after several years (married in 1911; divorced before 1922). Below is the transcription of the first of 2 of Evelyn's letters from my great-grandfather's second wife, after his death in 1949. Christina Auch theauchs@adelphia.net http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~familiesacrosstime/ Posted with a 3 cent stamp from E.B. Selby 31 Johnson Street Ansonia Connecticut to Mrs. Eugene A. Stead 2122 Campus Road Durham North Carolina February 17, 1950 Dear Evelyn Selby Stead I couldn't send these enclosures without a little note -- there are so many things I would like to tell you. Most of all, that always your Father hoped that sometime you would meet. You both lost so much by not knowing each other. He cherished everything he ever knew of you, and carried in his wallet a little clipping that told about your having had an operation for appendicitis, the announcement of your engagement and your picture and the account of your wedding. He was a dear good man and you would have loved each other dearly. The first Christmas after your Mother and Father were married, they gave your Grandmother Selby a cake set. Your Mother knows that I am going to send it to her and I imagine she will keep it for you. The snap shot isn't recent and is not particularly good of your Father but perhaps you would like to have it. The check is yours, of course, but if you feel you don't want it for yourself perhaps you can use it for something for your youngsters. If your Father had not wanted you to have it, he could easily have arranged things otherwise. Because you are Art's daughter, I wish so much that you and I could have been friends. You will always have my very best wishes. Sincerely, Edith B. Selby The snapshot was inscribed as follows: October 25, 1942 Front Row - left to right Annie Fannie Lena Helen Edith Art (died 1944) Back row Ralph Fillingham Maria Fillingham Ralph Andrews Kittie Joe Blackham El Matthias Bud Matthias

Looking for any death date of CHARLOTTE BARTRAM TYRRELL who died in New Haven aft 1910. Does anyone have access to city directory'sa 1910-1920. Thanks for any help. Kevin

I would like to find the maiden name and parents of Jerusha, who married Felix MEIGS (1735-1803) probably some time i the mid 1750s. Felix was from the Guilford CT area but I have not been able to find any record of the marriage or of Jerusha's maiden name. It has been suggested that she may have been an EVARTS, but I have not been able to document this. Any ideas would be appreciated. Edie in Maine

Hi Listers - It's not my style to take people to task on the list - when I see something like this come across, I communicate privately with the sender, with a gentle reminder as to what Rootsweb's policies are for posting on mailing lists. Sometimes people make mistakes and accidentally send things to everyone in their address books. But this is a good time for a review! Rootsweb generously donates a great deal of server space to the mailing lists and archives, so we should try to limit what is posted to the list to genuine genealogical queries. If someone on the list has done you a great favor, thank them privately, rather than send a message to the list. If you think you aren't receiving list mail, contact me first, and I will see if I can find a problem before sending a "Test" message to the list. We all get emails - jokes, political issues, virus warnings, safety warnings, prayer requests, etc. - that we are urged to forward for one reason or another. While they may be valid, and while you feel that some issues may be of importance to everyone, please refrain from sending to the list. Most of us will get the same email from a friend or co-worker anyway! Okay..if you've read this far.. let's get the list moving again!! How about posting your most elusive Connecticut ancestor to the list? We've had some new subscribers lately, so maybe someone will make a match! Robin List Administrator CTNEWHAV (New Haven County, Connecticut) KRUPA surname

Re: Message that appears on list: "SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years." #1. I thought messages such as this were not to appear on list. #2. If sender had checked this message, he or she would have found it to be another hoax.

Archibald Wilson/Willson was certainly living in CT between 1751 and 1764 since the four children I have attributed to him and wife Sarah (maiden name unknown) appear to have been born there other than that I am in the dark about him, and would certainly like to identify his lineage and that of his wife children I have as: John Wilson b. abt 1751 Middletown Jane Wilson b. abt 1754 Middletown, m. Roswell Goodrich Rachel Wilson/Willson chr. 3 Sep 1758 Kensington James Wilson b. 18 Nov 1764 Middletown now these are "out of county" but perhaps some listmember has information anyway ... Candy

GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC. SEC. 2004 Election Issue!! This must be an issue in "2004". Please! Keep it going. ---------------------------------- SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.) Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it. You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congress person has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan. For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die. Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments. For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives. Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH.. This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds; "OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"! >From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, -every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)- we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits! Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. How many people can YOU send this to? Keep this going clear up thru the 2004 election!! We need to be heard

If you live in CT and hold a valid library card (easy to get with ID), then go to www.iconn.org, go down to access from home, then click on Heritage Quest in the right column, and put your library card number in and off you go. This feature has been recently added Lindy

The Mormon church site adddress is LDS.org then go to family history listing. Cindy lou Burgess Bristol, Ct Researching Hay, Lawler, Struzinski,Stannard Dziemit, Bacon, Spak, Burgess, Smith, Wentworth, Paterson ----- Original Message ----- From: "egodfrey" <egodfrey@ttlc.net> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] Orphanage > Pete, I am having the same dificulty finding records on my motehr. I was > going toask if you had tried the 1940 cencus but just remembered the 1930 > cencus was just opened. Is there a Morman Research Library in your area? > The morman Church copied all town records and put thim on Microfilm, etc. in > the 1970's, etc. Perhaps they count check their microfilm and you can order > (to rent for three weeks to be used in the Morman Church Library) certain > records that have been microfilmed. The Church has microfilm readers > onsite. If you know a Morman in your area, they might be able to direct you > to a local Church Library. If not, go on line to the Morman Church site. > Bet there is some kind of Ward Cencus(a district in the city), perhaps > search the lans name of thier parents. Sorry I could not help more. > Betty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete" <eschep@myeastern.com> > To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:58 AM > Subject: [CTNEWHAV] Orphanage > > > > Hi > > > > Does anyone know how I might go about finding out about the County House > in New (or West) Haven. I have an Uncle and Aunt that was placed there > around the 1940's or so. Does it still exist? If not, where might the > records be? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kathy > > > > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > > Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This > infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > To post messages to the New Haven County, CT discussion list, send them to > CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

The 1940 census (and thereafter) is available to descendants and if the individual you are seeking is deceased. If it is you, you can get your own information. Call the NARA. -----Original Message----- From: egodfrey [mailto:egodfrey@ttlc.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:27 AM To: CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] Orphanage Pete, I am having the same dificulty finding records on my motehr. I was going toask if you had tried the 1940 cencus but just remembered the 1930 cencus was just opened. Is there a Morman Research Library in your area? The morman Church copied all town records and put thim on Microfilm, etc. in the 1970's, etc. Perhaps they count check their microfilm and you can order (to rent for three weeks to be used in the Morman Church Library) certain records that have been microfilmed. The Church has microfilm readers onsite. If you know a Morman in your area, they might be able to direct you to a local Church Library. If not, go on line to the Morman Church site. Bet there is some kind of Ward Cencus(a district in the city), perhaps search the lans name of thier parents. Sorry I could not help more. Betty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete" <eschep@myeastern.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:58 AM Subject: [CTNEWHAV] Orphanage > Hi > > Does anyone know how I might go about finding out about the County > House in New (or West) Haven. I have an Uncle and Aunt that was placed there around the 1940's or so. Does it still exist? If not, where might the records be? > > Thanks > > Kathy > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== To post messages to the New Haven County, CT discussion list, send them to CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Pete, I am having the same dificulty finding records on my motehr. I was going toask if you had tried the 1940 cencus but just remembered the 1930 cencus was just opened. Is there a Morman Research Library in your area? The morman Church copied all town records and put thim on Microfilm, etc. in the 1970's, etc. Perhaps they count check their microfilm and you can order (to rent for three weeks to be used in the Morman Church Library) certain records that have been microfilmed. The Church has microfilm readers onsite. If you know a Morman in your area, they might be able to direct you to a local Church Library. If not, go on line to the Morman Church site. Bet there is some kind of Ward Cencus(a district in the city), perhaps search the lans name of thier parents. Sorry I could not help more. Betty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete" <eschep@myeastern.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:58 AM Subject: [CTNEWHAV] Orphanage > Hi > > Does anyone know how I might go about finding out about the County House in New (or West) Haven. I have an Uncle and Aunt that was placed there around the 1940's or so. Does it still exist? If not, where might the records be? > > Thanks > > Kathy > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Peter, I found the historical society on line so I'll start with them. I don't really know if they were fostered or adopted. I think their mom was sent somewhere because after awhile she no longer shows up in the city directory with her husband and he's living at home with his parents. I know that could also indicate they got divorced but I have her death record and it says she was married to him. Thanks! Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "PETER GREENE" <peter.greene@snet.net> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 1:35 AM Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] Orphanage > Hello, > You might try the state health department office of vital records. In the phone book > > they list that they have birth, death and adoption records. Were your uncle and aunt > > adopted or foster children. In New Haven you could try the local vital records office > > or the the New Haven Colony Historical Society. > > I hope this helps a little. > > pete greene > > Pete <eschep@myeastern.com> wrote: > Hi > > Does anyone know how I might go about finding out about the County House in New (or West) Haven. I have an Uncle and Aunt that was placed there around the 1940's or so. Does it still exist? If not, where might the records be? > > Thanks > > Kathy > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Need to reach Robin, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > at <CTNewHavenCounty@aol.com>. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hello, You might try the state health department office of vital records. In the phone book they list that they have birth, death and adoption records. Were your uncle and aunt adopted or foster children. In New Haven you could try the local vital records office or the the New Haven Colony Historical Society. I hope this helps a little. pete greene Pete <eschep@myeastern.com> wrote: Hi Does anyone know how I might go about finding out about the County House in New (or West) Haven. I have an Uncle and Aunt that was placed there around the 1940's or so. Does it still exist? If not, where might the records be? Thanks Kathy ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi Listers; Thank you, Nancy, for your help. Now I have to look for the children of S.M. McCreary b. ca 1880, probably in Marysville, Yuba County and his wife Martha, in the Sacramento area. His mother, Aphaline [Kirkpatrick] McCreary took all of her three children away from her husband John Hayden McCreary and left Marysville in about 1887 and must have taken them to the Sacramento area. The two other children were; a yet to be named daughter b. 24 Aug 1873 and a son Vinal Hayden McCreary b 23 Oct 1882 in Marysville and found in Hartford Conn. in the 1920 & 1930 census, along with an affidavit of birth filed in Hartford and Marysville which must have been filed to settle an estate. I am seeking any living descendants of this family as well as the gravesites for them in Conn. and California. Any and all help would be deeply appreciated. John C. Hall, Petaluma, California ----- Original Message ----- From: "mmelton" <mmelton@rcsis.com> To: <CASACRAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [CASacramento] McCreary's in the Civil War > John, > I checked my 1931 & 1935 Sacramento City Directories and I couldn't any > listings for McCreary. Then I went to the 1930 Census and found that > they were living in Center Twp Sac County. Center Twp is now the City > of Citrus Heights and Antelope. > > Nancy > > > John C. Hall wrote: > > >Hello Liters; > > > >While I had many ancestors that served in the Civil War, I am only listing the sons of George Washington McCreary, of Eisenhower Ridge in Freedom Township, Wood County, Ohio. > > > >His second son, Alfred Middleton McCreary (my great grandfather) be. 1 Oct 1843 in Chester Township, Morrow County, Ohio do. 16 Mar 1899 in Brander,Montgomery Township, Wood County, Ohio. He served in Co. I 26 the Regiment, Ohio Volunteer Infantry, then in Co. ME, 16th Regiment, Kansas Cavalry. > > > >His third son Vinal Elmore McCreary be. 15 Jul 1848 do. 12 Nov 1919 in Fostoria, Seneca County, Ohio. He served in Co.I 9th Regiment, Ohio Cavalry. > > > >His third son George Lodemas McCreary be. 12 Sep 1850 do. 27 Feb 1943 in The California Veterans Home in Yountville, Napa County, California. He served in Co. I. 144th Regiment, Ohio Volunteer Infantry as a 14 year old Drummerboy. > > > >BUT WHOA, his oldest son, John Hayden McCreary was a JOHNNY REB, according to a letter written home by George, referring to him as a SESESH. This is confirmed by a photo of him in his Confederate uniform. The really odd part is that the Photographer was JAMES BALL in Fostoria (we have many family pics from the James Ball Studio). > > > >Where the devil would an Ohio boy, from a family of patriots, join the CSA? and for what reason? > > > >John Hayden McCreary be. 3 Aug 1841 in Chester Township, Morrow County, Ohio, and died on 24 Sep 1889 in Marysville, Yuba County, California. He married Apheline Kirkpatrick on 20 Jun 1872 in Marysville, Yuba County, California. He is buried in the old City Cemetery in Marysville. Apheline McCreary was living with her son SO. ME. McCreary in Sacramento in the 1930 census. > > > >Any help with information on this family would be deeply appreciated. > > > >John CO. Hall, Petaluma, California > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hi Does anyone know how I might go about finding out about the County House in New (or West) Haven. I have an Uncle and Aunt that was placed there around the 1940's or so. Does it still exist? If not, where might the records be? Thanks Kathy

I have a few unidentified photos of my ancestors. One of them (taken in 1918) has the name "York Studio" inscribed on the back. The other has "Post 125 Linden" written in back. I am trying to identify the subjects of these photos and perhaps learn something new about my relatives. Has anyone heard about the York Studio before? Is/was 125 Linden a residential area in the early 1900s? What was located in that address at the time? Can anybody help? Thanks, Divina

Hi, Thanks for your response. Yes, you have been very lucky. I've had some come back in a week from the small towns but the larger cities take much longer. I waited almost a full year for one from Bridgeport a few years back. Thanks to everyone who responded. I was really beginning to worry about the money orders. June ----- Original Message ----- From: "D.D. Johnston" <ddjohnston@erols.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:30 AM Subject: [CTNEWHAV] Re: Vital Records > Well, apparently I've been very lucky. I have requested several > certificates -- at different times -- from New Haven Co. as well a other > jurisdictions within the county and it never took more that week and a half. > > > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Need to reach Robin, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > at <CTNewHavenCounty@aol.com>. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hi Jerry, Thanks for your response. This is the first time I have ordered from New Haven since they finally started honoring mail requests. You're right. It's much faster when you can go there and do your own lookups but I live in FL so I only get up that way about every 2 years. From the responses it looks like I have to wait about 3 more months. Thanks again, June ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gfhoff630@aol.com> To: <CTNEWHAV-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [CTNEWHAV] Vital Records > My snail mail request took about 4 weeks. I went there in person last > November and got all five of my requests in about 35 minutes even they were very > busy. Jerry Hoffman, Gfhoff630@aol.com > > > ==== CTNEWHAV Mailing List ==== > Need to reach Robin, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email > at <CTNewHavenCounty@aol.com>. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >