jacopo longo wrote: > > Hello to everybody; > where should I check if I'd like to know something more about the > filological roots of the words 'slavonian' / 'schiavone-i' ? > and, as I was born in Italy, I'd like also to know why Italians hoped > Croatians would not rebel if they were called as 'Slavonians'... > Thanks a lot, > > Jacopo Longo, Italy Ciao The name Schiavoni appears in both Rome and Venice as place names and in Italy as a surname. Slavonian by definition can even be extended to mean Russian. http://www.slavism.com/basic.htm After the successful wars against Austria in 1859 and 1866, Italy sought a new position as a new Great Power. Italy regarded the Balkans especially Albania as its natural zone of influence. Italy competed with Austria for influence in this region. Italians dreamed of taking the whole Dalmatian sea-coast away from Austria based on the fact that an Italian minority lived there. Italy's ambitions were a threat to Turkey, Serbia, Montenegro and Greece. These states also hoped to seize the same areas on the Adriatic which were the object of Italian ambitions. Italy was too weak to sieze any of the Balkan territory up to 1878. Following the failed Hungarian revolution of 1848-1849, the Croats (who had fought on the side of the Hapburgs) were promised autonomy for Croatia-Slavania together with Dalmacija (to be called the Triune Kingdom) The 1860s saw the gradual removal of direct Austrian rule in Hungary (which ruled Croatia-Slavonia) But, the promise to incorporate Dalmatia with Croatia and Slavonia into a Triune Kingdom never happened. Dalamatia remained an Austrian province. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Staugaitis <jjs@qis.net> > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 3:33 PM > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Pittsburg and St. Louis industries? > > > At 07:14 AM 5/25/02 -0600, Frank Kurchina wrote: > > > <cut> > > > > > >The majority of the Croatians who emigrated from Dalmacija and Istria > > >had strong Venetian-Italian influences. The Italians called them > > >Schiavoni or "Slavonians" rather than Croatians, so that they would not > > >rebel and join any inland Croatian rebels. <cut> > > > > Also perhaps a bit of a play on words; 'schiavoni' can also mean 'slaves'. > > > > Joe > > ----- > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Kurchina" <frankur@worldnet.att.net> To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: R: [CROATIA-L] Pittsburg and St. Louis industries? > > > jacopo longo wrote: > > > > Hello to everybody; > > where should I check if I'd like to know something more about the > > filological roots of the words 'slavonian' / 'schiavone-i' ? > > and, as I was born in Italy, I'd like also to know why Italians hoped > > Croatians would not rebel if they were called as 'Slavonians'... > > Thanks a lot, > > > > Jacopo Longo, Italy > > > Ciao > > The name Schiavoni appears in both Rome and Venice > as place names and in Italy as a surname. > > Slavonian by definition can even be extended to mean Russian. > > http://www.slavism.com/basic.htm > > After the successful wars against Austria in 1859 and 1866, > Italy sought a new position as a new Great Power. > Italy regarded the Balkans especially Albania as its natural > zone of influence. > Italy competed with Austria for influence in this region. > Italians dreamed of taking the whole Dalmatian sea-coast > away from Austria based on the fact that an Italian minority lived > there. > Italy's ambitions were a threat to Turkey, Serbia, Montenegro and > Greece. > These states also hoped to seize the same areas on the Adriatic > which were the object of Italian ambitions. > Italy was too weak to sieze any of the Balkan territory up to 1878. > > Following the failed Hungarian revolution of 1848-1849, the > Croats (who had fought on the side of the Hapburgs) were The Hungarian "April Laws" ignored Croatian autonomy. In response, Croatian leaders called for a distinct Triune Kingdom, as a separate entity under the Habsburgs. The Habsburgs now sent a new royal Ban to Croatia, Josip Jellacic. He had been a colonel commanding Serbian troops in the military border, and was a known "Illyrian" in sentiment: the Habsburgs correctly hoped that he would be an ally against Budapest. Jellacic refused to accept from the new Hungarian regime, set up his own ruling council, and widened the franchise to elect a new Sabor in May, which endorsed his actons The divisions that hurt the Hungarian regime were based on ethnic differences, not class. The Magyarization program of the April Laws made it impossible for Croats, Serbs, Slovaks and Romanians to support those laws,and this made the minorities into handy allies for the Habsburgs. If anything, this strengthened the forces of Magyar national chauvinism, despite defeat in 1849. The fate of Croatia was more complicated. The Diet worked out a second compromise with the Croatian Diet. This "Nagodba" of 1868 retained Croatia's separate identity, language rights and the Sabor. In practice, the Nagodba left Croatia at the mercy of Hungary. Franz Joseph gave up the right to act in Croatian affairs: the Ban was henceforth appointed in Budapest. The most bitter point of disagreement was the status of the city of Rijeka (or Fiume) on the Adriatic, the best port for both Hungarian and Croatian exports, and claimed by both. When the Hungarian delegates brought the Nagodba to Franz Joseph for signature they adopted a simple solution to the stalemate: in place of a clause meant to explain the dispute, they pasted a scrap of paper with their own text, ending Croatian rule. The Habsburgs chose never to remedy this trick > promised autonomy for Croatia-Slavania together with Dalmacija > (to be called the Triune Kingdom) > The 1860s saw the gradual removal of direct Austrian rule in > Hungary (which ruled Croatia-Slavonia) > But, the promise to incorporate Dalmatia with Croatia and Slavonia into > a Triune Kingdom never happened. > Dalamatia remained an Austrian province. There had been a medieval Croatian kingdom, and Croatian nobles claimed political rights, including election of their kings. When their own dynasty died out in 1102, the Croatian Diet or "Sabor" chose the Hungarian dynasty, trading away full independence for security, stability, and internal autonomy. The "Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia" remained a legally distinct constitutional entity. After Mohacs, the "Sabor" separately selected the Habsburg candidate as Croatia's king. Under the Habsburgs, this local diet of nobles made the laws and handled internal administration, with the consent of the king's viceroy, the Ban. Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia, 1867 - 1918 http://zeljko-heimer-fame.from.hr/descr/hr-hist.html#hr-189x http://www.vlada.hr/english/docs-constitution.html http://public.srce.hr/hpm/p0256003.htm > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Joe Staugaitis <jjs@qis.net> > > To: <CROATIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 3:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [CROATIA-L] Pittsburg and St. Louis industries? > > > > > At 07:14 AM 5/25/02 -0600, Frank Kurchina wrote: > > > > <cut> > > > > > > > >The majority of the Croatians who emigrated from Dalmacija and Istria > > > >had strong Venetian-Italian influences. The Italians called them > > > >Schiavoni or "Slavonians" rather than Croatians, so that they would not > > > >rebel and join any inland Croatian rebels. <cut> > > > > > > Also perhaps a bit of a play on words; 'schiavoni' can also mean 'slaves'. > > > > > > Joe > > > ----- > > > >